elizabethatucker

elizabethatucker 9 months ago

again, all I see is an "us and them" attitude... "winners and loosers"...This is my point, I have made no assertions other than the issue at hand... which was...Keep your law off my body. I agree with the statement, for two reasons,
1. I may not believe what you believe, but I will defend your right to learn at your own pace and walk your own path.
and
2. I think that learning by example works way better than being humiliated, and chastized into acting the way you want someone to act.

You can say you are not a Christian, but all that means is that you have not had a calling to follow Christ as your God. But you can not deny that he was a totally cool dude with a heart and a passion for the people. He was a good man who was never fair but always just. At the very least, he set a good example on how to get along on this earth. Some people call themselves Christian, which in turn gives them some sort of license to judge others unfairly and put people in a defensive position. This is absolutely the worst thing we can do to one of our brothers or sisters, because Unity is the only way.

Bottom line: The details and earthly laws mean nothing if you hold yourself to a higher standard... Universal Law.

I think Im done here, Blessings to all...

elizabethatucker 9 months ago

It seem like you guys just want to pick apart eachothers words, and argue for the sake of argueing. For some reason, asserting your independence of others is satisfying to you, and more important than finding common ground. You are all "right" in your own ways..., its called perspective.

elizabethatucker 9 months ago

Everyone! Abortion is a social/moral issue...for BOTH men and women...

Sobi, I believe that you are coming from a "modern womens liberation" point of view, regarding the abortion issue. I believe that that the age of womens liberation was the begining of the end, regarding the fall of morality in our society. Yepper, I am a woman, and I said it. But hear me out.

Womens liberation was intended to give women a fair ground in the workplace, and in the legal system, to make things fair and just. But now it has evolved into something else, with competition and "winning" as the prize. Well, Sobi, as you said, "we won". But what exactly did we win? We won the right to pretend that we are happy competing with men, having meaningless sex, and controlling our uterus'. YEAH! More power to ya' if thats the kind of power you want.

I personally want to be truly loved and nurtured. To be safe and sound with a family who loves me, and whom I support under all circumstances... This is what I believe we all want, but we have been confused somehow.

Bottom line, all of the issues mentioned in this thread, including abortion, are of a social nature... the topic of this thread..."Keep your law off my body", is about weather or not the govt. should have the power to make unilateral moral judgments regarding its citizens, and the answer is, NO.

By the way, I dont think that anyone "supports abortion" per se'..., as noone would argue that it is a horible, painfull and sad ordeal. But I do support your right to choose and learn from your mistakes.

elizabethatucker 9 months ago

Jedidaddy, I do understand your passion and I see your point of view. I agree that abortion is a horrible thing.

But I must say that your post seems extremely judgmental. I dont see any empathy, or compassion in your writing... Empathy for the human beings who are in pain, and in turn harming themselves, and their unborn child, not to mention the grandparents, sisters/brothers etc... This is my whole point. These are social - moral issues, and will not change no matter what the law books say.

elizabethatucker 9 months ago

Thanks Jason.
I also believe that every decision I make -from the greatest, right down to my most basic of responses to daily situations -is opportunity for a lesson learned.

Every comment I make, every bit of attention I pay, every glance I give, every time I take the opportunity to build up one of my brothers/sisters..., is an opportunity to strengthen my connection with humanity and the universal power, and in turn obtain enlightenment. Ie. learn a lesson.

How we treat eachother is more important than the laws in the books.

I believe that if we treated eachother better, on all levels - "social issues" like abortion, drugs, etc. would be less prevelent.

It seems as if people are most resistant to the most basic of truths... LOVE.

Cheeeezzzzy? YEPPER. But true.

elizabethatucker 9 months ago

I believe that there are a bunch of things that people do in this world/country which are wrong. Abortion is wrong, it is a horrible thing, on so many levels.

With that said, I still believe that everyone has "free will". We make mistakes, and go through trials, so that we may learn lessons in order to obtain enlightenment. I do not believe that anyone has the "right" to tell me or anyone what they can and can not do with their own body. Weather that be drugs, abortion, adultry, idoltry, etc... We all have our lessons to learn. We need to stop judging eachother and start judging ourselves.

elizabethatucker 9 months ago

I agree.
But...
How do we find an informed jury? Every person in the usa, is not as informed as you are. A hung jury only means that they do the trial over again with a new jury. I have found that the odds are, that you can go through 4 jury groupings and still maybe only find 1 informed jurror who actually gives a crap about what is going on.

In the end I agree with what you are saying. In a utopian world, we would not need to fall back on the plea bargain process. But as it stands, we have prosecutors who over charge because they know that this is how the system works. A total revamp of the system is what is needed, but we cant start the process by taking away the only option for some who are accused.

elizabethatucker 9 months ago

I agree that ultimately, this would be a great idea...a bit idealistic, though.

Before implementing this idea, we would have to get rid of all the crazy prosecutors. They over charge cases to compensate for the "bargaining process". They over charge cases with no merit, or evidence, for statistics and grant funds.

Before implementing this idea, we would also have to educate every single potential jurror regarding every possible scenario, law, loophole, and such, in a non-bias way, in order for the accused to have a fair trial.

When a person is accused, they are faced with three basic choices, 1. have faith in the "system" and put their future in the hands of a jury which may not care, or is simply uneducated at best... Or 2. plea out with the prosecutor, who has the MOST control in a trial, Or, 3. wing in with a judge in a bench trial, and hope that the judge is educated and fair.

I fear that considering all of this info. I would be more inclined to plea, out of fear... It takes strong character and lots of support for someone to say, "I did not do what you say I did, and you are not going to intimidate me with the threat of prision, an uneducated jury,crazy prosecutors, overworked P.D.'s, politically motivated judges, etc...

regardless of weather or not this is a fair system, it is what it is, and to take away the option of a plea, would have to be further down on the list of steps to overhaul our system of justice...in order to prevent our efforts from negatively effecting the accused by taking away options. Lets face it, loopholes and pleas, are sometimes the only things the innocent can count on.

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