2nd major billboard company rejects eligibility campaign Lamar Outdoor says 'it's misleading to indicate there's question about president's birth certificate'
This is the information they don't want us to see- new information HAS BEEN RELEASED about THE REAL CONSPIRACY... prepare yourself, THIS WILL BLOW YOUR MIND. There is no way I can post all the info here without being immediately flagged for moderation- THIS IS IMPORTANT.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
I'm done- you have ruined this place for everyone. I fully believe that they GAVE you the number 3 spot to shut you up, but you keep going. You can't just participate like normal people, and no proof that is offered is ever going to be good enough.
OK now that you guys have made it to the top WITHOUT BEING CENSORED can you please (with a right wing cherry on top) stop it with all the duplicate posting and give the rest of us a chance to look at something else for a little while?
Open government dialogue, any dialogue for that matter, requires that participants agree to follow the proper rules of exchange. If these rules aren't followed in debate, then what was open dialogue melts down into common bickering and name calling.
Please limit posting of duplicate ideas. There is a proper way to use this site. There are plenty of posts already asking for Obama's birth certificate. Please vote on those ideas, and comment there if you wish. The reposting and duplication of these ideas is doing nothing to further your cause, and from the looks of it many are being removed by moderators shortly after creation.
The language being used is becoming more and more threatening and overtly racist, and contrary to the message posted on the main page this morning these posts are still springing up by the hundreds. I fully support any and everyone's right to post their ideas and concerns, but continued refusal to post in the proper manner destroys the system of free exchange.
Here's a new idea- shut up with all this. I feel like Rush must have gone and let his loonies out of their cages. Lets talk about issues that actually have some base in reality. Oh, let's also try to spell correctly, form complete sentences when we type comments, and remember to take our meds as soon as we read this.
Where are all the green jobs you keep talking about? I haven't seen anything yet except a steady decline in our fossil fueled economy... We need these green jobs to replace the ones that are being lost- so people can pay their mortgages in this "mortgage crisis." I see some new hybrid cars coming in from Japan, but that's a Japanese green economy.
This if for all you UNAmericans who don't understand the idea of personal freedom. Sugar in the amounts that we consume is toxic to the body and carries a direct link to Type 2 Diabetes that can lead to kidney failure and heart disease. So let's get everyone on board for banning American Apple Pie! Or else wind up blind amputees having to inject yourselves daily with the hormones you no longer naturally produce.
If marijuana is illegal, then apple pie should be as well!
We all have an interest in protecting freedom- the Constitution was not set up to define laws based on opinion or moral objection
This if for all you UNAmericans who don't understand the idea of personal freedom. Sugar in the amounts that we consume is toxic to the body and carries a direct link to Type 2 Diabetes that can lead to kidney failure and heart disease. So let's get everyone on board for banning American Apple Pie! Or else wind up blind amputees having to inject yourselves daily with the hormones you no longer naturally produce.
If marijuana is illegal, then apple pie should be as well!
We all have an interest in protecting freedom- the Constitution was not set up to define laws based on opinion or moral objection.
President Obama, There is a question looming in more than a few minds over the last few months about the president that we helped to elect and the change that he so eagerly promised. It was the number one issue on Change.gov, and it was the number one issue at your first town hall. We are concerned about marijuana prohibition- easy to laugh off by some, but a very serious question to those in want for medical purposes or imprisoned for its use. This issue is equally as important to those living in states close to the Mexican border where greedy cartels have set up shop to draw in increasingly higher profits that are used in turn to circumvent our border security, to acquire weapons to drive competition away, and to further escalate the profit margin. In the meantime, we continue in a pattern of insanity- repeating the same failed behaviors over and again, and each time expecting a new and better result.
This is a serious issue.
Currently only 13 states have compassionate use laws for medical uses, and only 12 states have varying decriminalization guidelines for users either medical or recreational. This puts the majority of the U.S. in zero tolerance states on both counts. The federal government has offered nothing but contempt towards states’ decisions to develop their own more liberal laws surrounding cannabis, and in cases where compassionate use laws have been ratified into law by voters the federal government has repeatedly taken a stance contrary to the wishes of the people by arresting patients and providers alike. What happened to the idea of my body- my choice?
According to the FBI’s annual report for 2007, marijuana accounted for a total of 47.5 percent of all drug arrests in the U.S.- this amounts to 874,570 arrests. Of these, 775,145 were for simple possession. That is 775,145 American citizens arrested, handcuffed, booked, and taken to jail for being found in possession of marijuana. On the other hand, roughly half that number of people were arrested for possession of cocaine (in any form) and heroin combined. If you look at the number of arrests for sales of cocaine and heroin, the number drops far lower- accounting for only 7.9% of drug arrests in 2007. In 2005 (the latest data reported by the FBI), the national total of arrests for violent crime was 603,503- the number of violent crimes reported in that same year was 1,287,981. Over half of the reported violent crimes that year went unsolved. This is no laughing matter.
The United States started down this road over seventy years ago with policies that are now known to have their beginnings in racist objectives against Mexican and African – Americans who at that point were the primary users of cannabis as an intoxicant. In these seventy years we have seen much evidence, both scientific and experiential, that the claims made for the initial drive towards prohibition were largely falsified, however, these same reasons are given today as if they were backed by sound science. We have heard the arguments against legalization range from sexual aggression and violent behavior to gateway drug and amotivational syndrome. Law enforcement officials consistently and blindly chant this mantra of ignorant propaganda even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The current school of thought seems to be centered around: 1. The idea that marijuana is a gateway drug leading to more harmful substances, and 2. That it will steal a users motivation to contribute to society in a meaningful way. Both of these claims I reject.
In rebuttal to the idea that marijuana is a gateway drug I offer the idea that prohibition is the real gateway to more addictive substances. The same cartels and gangs that control much of the marijuana trade in the United States also control the trade of other substances such as cocaine and heroin. It stands to reason that if one must seek the underworld to find one then they will certainly encounter the other. In order to make a larger profit, these organized criminals will push the drug that has the highest profit potential- like any business or salesman trying to maximize profit revenues. So, in the end the casual user who might have contributed a couple of hundred dollars yearly to these organizations by way of marijuana is now introduced to a host of new substances that can result in physiological addiction. What this means is that a dollar a day luxury is transformed into a personal contribution of tens of thousands of dollars yearly to the illegal drug trade and a life now ruined by addiction. Prohibition is what sets this all into motion. It is what provides the introduction, and it is what provides the profitability. In regards to your own use of marijuana and cocaine- did marijuana drive you to want to use cocaine or was marijuana merely what got you into the pusher’s house where the cocaine was first encountered?
Amotivational syndrome is largely put to rest by the headlines. “Michael Phelps Smokes Pot” Is there any basis for this claim that marijuana somehow destroys motivation now that we all know that an Olympian with umpteen gold medals is a user? As a second and altogether more personal example, I also add that the three most current past presidents have also admitted to some recreational use of marijuana- though one didn’t inhale (he also did not have sex with that woman). With these examples I believe we can see a pattern in which at least four people, all from very different walks of life, were able to achieve very lofty goals in spite of their encounters with cannabis.
The laws are very obviously baseless, and are creating more problems than our society can fix. Marijuana offers no proven ill to society, and its users are labeled criminals only to satisfy archaic legislation based on prejudiced misinformation. To reiterate: According to the FBI’s annual report for 2007, marijuana accounted for a total of 47.5 percent of all drug arrests in the U.S.- this amounts to 874, 570 arrests. Of these, 775, 145 were for simple possession. In my state of Alabama the first conviction for possession is a misdemeanor, a second conviction for simple possession of marijuana is a felony. This is a very serious problem- felons can’t vote, felons can’t receive financial aid for college, felons turn back to crime because they can’t find more viable options. This is essentially a victimless crime for which people are paying with their lives. Victims in this case are created by laws that should be there to protect them. Instead, we have created, through prohibition, an entire sector of political prisoners from within our own borders that is composed of our own citizenry. These are otherwise law abiding citizens who have been labeled criminals based on consumption of an unprocessed herb. If they were criminals in any other sense they would have been arrested for other crimes.
Alcohol prohibition in the early twentieth century taught as a lot about organized crime, although it seems we learned very little. As they say, those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Prohibition built an empire for the mob. When the laws went into effect the regulations were taken away, and during this time prices rose as products became less pure. The longer the laws stayed in effect the more violent the struggles became to control the illegal industry. This same story is now playing out along our borders. The profits are immense. Just like the mafia of old, these organizations are willing to do whatever it takes to maintain their control over a trade made possible by prohibition. They are making huge profits, using a share of those profits to arm themselves, and in turn are using those weapons to drive out competition and drive up their profit margin. These weapons are also being used to drive out law enforcement and intimidate government officials- sound familiar?
Organized crime relies on the idea that Money=Guns=Power. This triad is not hard to destroy, but it will take some changes in how the government addresses the issues. You could fight them with your own guns- but for every man you imprison there are many to take his place. We have tried this and failed. You could take their guns- but these are even more easily replaced. We have also tried this and failed. You have to attack the money side of the triangle- without money there is nothing to perpetuate the cycle. Without money the guns become irreplaceable, without money the power to draw in new soldiers is effectively taken away. If you take away the money, you have stolen the means as well as the incentive. We have approached this, but our plan of attack was wrong.
If we look to history, how did we defeat organized crime when we last faced it down? Did arrests of users and bartenders curb the problems? No. Then how were the problems solved? We legalized and regulated their big money makers. In return, and simply stated, we exchanged the speakeasy for the local pub and back room gambling operations for Las Vegas. If we apply that same logic to the current situation it stands to reason that legalization and regulation are going to be the answer to the current problem as well. Legalization of marijuana opens up a wealth of opportunity to help fix the current epidemic of crime and addiction. First, you are taking money away from the criminal enterprise on two levels: directly by taking away any profits from the sale and distribution of marijuana, and indirectly by decreasing exposure to the other drugs they are pushing. Second, regulation and taxation would put more money to work to help educate and rehabilitate addicts. In effect, you have stemmed the flow of new users of hard drugs by limiting exposure, and have begun to decrease the numbers of current users through mental health and rehabilitation efforts. In both instances you have taken away from the financial gain of the criminal elements.
A fervent supporter of alcohol prohibition, John D. Rockefeller, Jr. wrote this when he realized that the policy he had championed was both damaging and non-sustainable as long as the country’s population was not also in overwhelming support: When the Eighteenth Amendment was passed I earnestly hoped,—with a host of advocates of temperance,—that it would be generally supported by public opinion and thus the day be hastened when the value to society of men with minds and bodies free from the undermining effects of alcohol would be generally realized. That this has not been the result, but rather that drinking generally has increased; that the speak-easy has replaced the saloon, not only unit for unit, but probably two-fold if not three-fold; that a vast army of lawbreakers has been recruited and financed on a colossal scale; that many of our best citizens, piqued at what they regarded as an infringement of their private rights, have openly and unabashed disregarded the Eighteenth Amendment; that as an inevitable result respect for the law has been greatly lessened; that crime has increased to an unprecedented degree —I have slowly and reluctantly come to believe. I am not unmindful of the great blessing which the abolition of the saloon has been to our country or of certain other benefits that lave resulted from the adoption of the Eighteenth Amendment. It is my profound conviction, however, that these benefits, important and far reaching as they are, are more than outweighed by the evils that have developed and flourished since its adoption, evils which, unless promptly checked, are likely to lead to conditions unspeakably worse than those which prevailed before. It is not to be expected that the repeal of the Eighteenth Amendment will in itself end all these evils and restore public respect for law. I believe, however, that its repeal is a prerequisite to the attainment of that goal.
Essentially, we gave it a try, but we are now seeing what happens when you impede a man’s right to legally choose for himself- not very pretty.
The Constitution of the United States gives us the right to think and choose for ourselves, the Constitution should defend our rights against those trying to limit them, and as long as my actions don’t encroach upon another individual’s rights or his upon mine, those actions should be legal by virtue of the Constitution. If we are going to preach to the world about freedom, shouldn’t we set the example by living free?
I urge you to open the debate on rethinking U.S. marijuana policy.
I think your argument got jammed down your gullet as a weak fabrication, and that's why you are tired of talking about it- looking at the posts here it sure seems like that's the case.
My problem is in your posts where you sarcastically hint to acts of violence and treason. That's not funny.
I don't know you from a pile of ass on the other end of the internet. I suspect that you are at least reasonable enough to know that what you have said here on a few occasions is at best distasteful and at worst treasonous.
I can't even begin to understand the motive behind posting such dribble, but the end product could be tragedy. If you don't like being dumped in with the von brunn's of the world- then watch your mouth. Or else watch your six. If you came talking that trash anywhere near me or mine I would wipe that goofy grin off your beak before you had time to crow.
Other than that, I'm sure the prisons can help you fulfill your need to have a man in your mouth... maybe that's what you're shooting for after all. When you get there be sure to use all the racist innuendo you can muster- they love it- it's like flirting.
Keep proving that you earned the right to lumped in with von brunn.... That the birther agenda has nothing to do with the Constitution and a whole lot to do with an irrational fear of "different."
Look who's calling who a lemming- the birther bowel movement has already been flushed down the bowl, and you dupes are still spinning merrily along spouting the same tired-ass rhetoric.
Wouldn't this be more appropriate as a comment in another post? Here it just seems like you want to say something without getting SMASHED by blackmonrikker's rebuttal...
Or is this an alert to your buddies that rikker is ripping you a new one?
This site has been a waste for a while now- if you are sick of the birthers just call their bluff.
They have NO idea what they are talking about- just ask them for proof. Do not, I repeat, DO NOT try to reason with them- they have lost all capability to think rationally or to make reasonable arguments.
You need little more than a fourth grade education to destroy any of their arguments. If you can read- you can outwit a birther. If you have ever read a book without pictures- you can drive a birther to the clinical limits of sanity.
Just kick back, call their bluff, and laugh hysterically at their senseless rambling.
Before I get back to work, I gotta say- I agree with all but the last part. On the grounds that I don't feel like the govt has any say in my medical benefits in the first place.
Are you talking about people with govt benefits or people with private insurance?
I have to admit I like the "Show us you papers!" posts- for whatever reason I hear it in the guard's voice from Hogan's Heroes.
I really had no idea that this birther sh*te existed until last week- so, so much for a growing majority or we the people. I just got pissed that they were blocking access to the folks who actually wanted to engage in the stated goal of the site, and figured I could bytch them into submission. So here I am- still bytchin'...
You know the Republican's aren't going to touch this- not with a 10' pole held by a Democrat. Having your name anywhere near this would be political suicide- like putting your name to the "truthers" arguments or any other hack conspiracy.
Von Brunn didn't even need to stamp his name on it- it had no credibility before him, but now it's publicly tied to that evil old sh*tbiscuit- so it's completely untouchable even to the quietly prejudiced who might have (slim chance in a racist wet dream) considered it beforehand.
rikker- The takeover of this site is what got me fighting these ass-hatted windbags in the first place- up till 6-1-09 I had no idea a "birther" existed- honestly.
From that point on I have been essentially hooked on bashing them whenever I have a spare moment. The more I learn about the absurdity of their "cause" the better it gets.
carpenturr- rikker is trying to get all of you to ignore lunatics. You really should listen to what he has to say, or else wind up with plenty of egg on your face.
I just read about half (couldn't read any further) of the civil case between Berg and Taitz- they are quite the crowd... My mind is blown.
Birthers, this is must read material for you- this is who you are putting your faith in as the savior of the Republic? The champions of the Constitution?
Any of the birthers on here calling anybody else "sheeple" need to take a long hard look in the mirror...
blackmonrikker:"Carpenturr1 is sitting at his keyboard masturbating like a monkey. Obot is preparing for tonite's big hoe down. Rejean is trying to figure out what to say next."
You forgot- Yeti is laughing his ass off at home in mommy's basement.
I never accused you of being a racist, jerkinoff. I was responding to the original post and several comments below it including carpenturr1's Farrakhan brain fart.
Your assumption that I was talking to you and your strong protest gave you away before anyone ever had to raise the question.
"I think thee doth protest too much..." -mommy (right before I went downstairs)
I didn't support it, carpenturr, Congrees did- I have stated and restated that already on a number of occasions...
What I have already pointed out is that it isn't illegal.
From your post above: "Section 3. He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient."
I'll make it simple for you. The above statement(from the Constitution)is what happened first. Next, the issue of FRRA was presented to the Legislature for a vote and passed. The last step was the President signing the Legislature's approved Act. That puts it into law.
Yep, that's what I thought, you really are just a gutless sack.
Having no respect for anything you think or say, it stands to reason that the less you and your kind think of me the better I feel. You're outdated, small minded, and most important of all- you are on the way out.
See ya tomorrow, jerkinoff, maybe your nuts will have dropped by then.
If that's all you got, jerkinoff, I'll gladly stay on the porch just to have a better view of your ignorant and pathetic self destruction. Sounds to me like, if nothing else in this life, you pretty much have that part covered.
You seem to know an awful lot about mommy's basement, and yet nothing about me... Did I hit a nerve with that "if I thought you were able to stand up to piss" comment?
Could it be that you are just some pathetic sack of redneck ass looking for an excuse to throw around some hate?
jackenoff, if I thought you were able to stand up to piss I might take offense to that last dig.
As it stands I have seen you degrade yourself a thousand times today with idiot remark after idiot remark, and I don't think you have a pigs chance in the smoker of matching me at anything.
You had to know it was going to happen- some people aren't ready to see a black man in the office of the POTUS... I like Obama- I think he's a good man, and though I don't agree with some of his policies I think he legitimately wants to do right by America. That being said, there are still a lot of simple sumbitches around this here land that just got the shock of their lily white lives.
It hasn't been that long ago that I was engaged in knocking around the neo-nasties that invaded AL in the 90's- my guess is there's going to be an upstroke of that kind of behavior from the disaffected and unstable. The language being used here and on other sites is similar to the propaganda that was floating around here back then. Different subjects, but the same content of mistrust and alienation.
Betcha a buck that the subject will soon turn back to what we saw then- it's just in its infancy for now.
jason- I think that's pretty suspicious as well, and it's great to talk to someone close to the industry who has some insight into this debacle.
It is not too much to ask- car dealers have a large financial stake in their businesses, and should be privy to any and all information regarding the closing of those businesses.
All we can do at this point is speculate as to the reasons why... and that won't get us any where fast.
My argument (speculative) is that GM and Chrysler are the one's to look at for the time being in as much as the government has nothing to profit from in the closing of successful dealerships.
Like I said above- I have absolutely no idea what goes on in the world of corporate finance, but it seems these big wigs have been pretty shady in the past. I wouldn't put it past them to try and pull some kind of a "fast one" out of this.
That's a well framed question, jason... Thank you.
I don't have an answer for you on that- my guess is that it is a fairly complex process that goes well beyond my understanding of corporate financing.
Are you or do you know an owner of a GM dealership or anyone working in their corporate offices?
That would be the place I would look first- I'm not sure the role that the govt is taking in deciding how to maintain retail operations. If you know something that I don't please fill me in...
Political prejudice would be an awful way to conduct business at this level, but I doubt this is the case as the public outcry would be pretty enormous.
I do throw it out there that (from a news report I saw last night which may or may not be accurate) many dealership owners are Republicans, and the perceived discrepancies in closings might be due to the fact there are a disproportionately high number of Republican vs. Democrat owned outlets. Just a thought.
jason:"Tell the taxpayers EXACTLY how the GM dealers were chosen to close."
tsiya:"Dealers are losing investments, and stuck with inventory they can no longer sell as new. They still have to repay the loans they took out to buy the inventory."
I think you might have just answered the question- it's not such a conspiracy now, huh?
I've already said numerous times that I think that this was a misuse of tax payer funds- my assertion in the last comment was that many of the people, like you, who are kicking and screaming about the decision that was made would be throwing the same fit if the opposite had been true...
Truth is you are "haters" with nothing to bring to the table but accusation and assumption, and when asked to speak to something that can be proven by evidence you slink back to your same old arguments- and never produce any facts or intelligent criticism of anything.
Since you have been waiting, do you have an answer?
Are you sure?
Found any evidence yet to show that the Constitution prevents the making of new laws?
If the President and Congress hadn't authorized these funds to auto manufacturers, what would the public outcry have been against the administration when tens of thousands of people lost their jobs?
My assertion is that the same people now arguing against these funds being loaned would also be calling for removal if the funds hadn't been made available... Crying at that point that the Feds should be more active in protecting the jobs and rights of the American people.
Are we so sure that the funds provided haven't prevented the economy from going further into recession than it has?
I'm not so sure, but hindsight is 20/20 giving me the luxury to disagree now.
tsiya- you still haven't found me a single line preventing the addition of new laws by the Feds? -----------------------------------------
We aren't talking about one single company- we are talking about an entire industry. Existing law was deemed by the gov to be less than suitable given the magnitude of the situation,
No one has rewritten bankruptcy law- the government made a loan of capital to several large corporations in deep financial trouble in an effort to stem the potential loss of industry and thousands of jobs in America. Due to their unwillingness to address their own inefficiencies some of those corporations are now finding that they are no longer viable in the market place, and have now begun to default on those loans.
Again, the government in no way forced this money or situation onto these companies- they literally begged for it... Whether or not you agree with the government answering these pleas you cannot call their actions criminal.
The corporate hee haws' greed and stupidity has cost you money, and is the reason that these companies are now being sold to overseas corporations.
By and large there has been no "takeover" of private business in this administration. There have been "loans" to bailout failing corporations in an effort to save American jobs.
While I see the reason it was done, and I can sympathize with those losing their jobs - I agree that it was a misuse of taxpayer dollars, but there is nothing criminal to it.
As far as I can see there is nothing limiting his power to SUGGEST anything to congress- the President could, if he wanted, suggest any number of ludicrous ideas. The Legislative and Judicial Branches are in place to safeguard the country from ludicrous ideas becoming law.
If you have a problem with this law you have to blame the other branches with just as much vigor.
Again, I ask you to please find me a line in the Constitution that defines these actions as criminal or unConstitutional.
While I don't agree with it, there is a law (of sorts), it is called the Federal Reinvestment and Recovery Act- it passed through an elected congress earlier this year.
If these companies didn't want the money they did not have to take it- instead they begged for it. This isn't a hostile takeover, this is the result of the incompetence of corporate hee haws.
The government never forced anyone's hand in this matter- they didn't threaten anyone- they didn't force bankruptcy- they aren't to blame for mismanagement and inefficiency of these corporations that received funding.
The job description of the President:
Choose cabinet members Command the armed forces of the country Meet with leaders of foreign countries Make treaties with foreign countries Appoint judges and ambassadors Propose new laws Sign bills into law and veto bills Protect and defend the laws of the US Pardon criminals Report to Congress once a year
I still don't see what this has to do with the equal administration of justice...
carpenturr- the government provides government- if they didn't we would have anarchy.
Auto worker benefits are INCREDIBLE, far better than most.
I have no beef with looking at government wastes and trying to correct them, but to blame the government for "forcing themselves into private business" is a ridiculous assertion.
Our costs continually rise to pad the pockets of corporate hee haws- these cost increases have little to do with government interference in the free market.
If you want to stop transferring wealth to the very wealthy- then stop buying things from the very wealthy. Buy locally produced goods- support local farmer's markets, buy used cars, use solar power for your home, power your car on home brew methanol or biodiesel, etc... Stop using cell phones, telephones, internet, cable, tv, toothpaste, running water, deodorant, etc. Make your own clothes, bread, furniture, etc.
Essentially- live like a pioneer off the grid.
Understand the ramifications of this process though- if we all did this there would be no industry to employ people, there would be no stores (that sell these goods) to employ people, and modern conveniences would eventually disappear. It sucks a fat one, but in many ways we depend on the very wealthy to keep this world running.
If I remember correctly the auto execs were literally begging- the government forced nothing.
With the benefit of hindsight I, too, wish the gov had stayed out of it, but in the same situation you have to ask yourself what you would have done- how many jobs were at stake?
If you want to know who to blame for the loss of jobs- look to the rich and greedy hee haws who ran the company into the ground.
Lisa, I see the value of what you are saying here, but I gotta say I am with your friend on this one. Read some of the posts on here, and ask yourself if you want ANY of these people having much control of a federal budget. This probably isn't exactly representative of the full population, but these are the people who felt the need to say something.
ibeen_jerkenov:"It makes more sense to travel postpartum than to board a plane when one is about to drop skull, dontcha think?"
blackmonrikker:"Stanley Ann mounts the water buffalo two hours after giving birth, rides back to Nairobi with her bundle of joy in tow. She catches the first thing smoking."
jackenov, you are obviously a bottom feeder, and I realize it is an exercise in futility to respond to your comment, but I couldn't resist. Next time you comment on a post you might try reading it first.
Right now, hairlip, I have put into motion a plan involving millions of dollars in attorney's fees to prove that I don't exist- you will never find me! The records will plainly show that, although I am typing messages to you here- in REALITY I am just a fictional creature. Or am I?
Don't trust what the records say- they HAVE BEEN FALSIFIED! I tell you this now because I think there are a growing number of people concerned with the Yeti and his ilk- it seems they are cunning creatures able to outwit birthers at every turn- but you will never be able to prove their existence unless you move fast on this subject to expose the TRUTH- the FACTS!
The fact is that the Trilterals, FEMA, and the Bildergergers are secretly under Yeti influence, and are attempting a takoeover of the U.S. in the name of the Yeti cause. The more they outwit the birthers the stronger the Yeti become- so be quick, make haste, the TRUTH is on your side!
I hope it is about me! That would make my day, my week, my year even! That's definitely a story I could tell the grandkids about.
So, hairlip, why don't you get in touch with Farah over at the Nut and see about indicting Yeti Descendant alongside the president- You guys can all claim that I am a (insert accusation here), and you can give me even more to laugh about when you start looking for the birth certificate of a guy who claims to be a descendant of the abominable snowman!
That should give your movement TONS of press, and it will probably add more to the Nut's overwhelming journalistic credibility.
I for one think We The People should be outraged at this obvious act at subversion of truth on the part of Lamar. In fact I present the argument that all in the movement boycott Lamar by refusing to look at their signs. I know I for one will be closing my eyes whenever I pass one of these commie corp.'s signs on the interstate, and I argue that all in the birther movement do the same. That will show those cowards that We The People mean business, and We The People are here to stay!
*DISCLAIMER: This is an attempt at humor at the expense of the birther movement. I absolutely DO NOT ADVOCATE DRIVING ON THE INTERSTATE WITH YOUR EYES CLOSED.
I wouldn't have her stay the night for the enlightening conversation... To each his own, but I would hit that stuff hard! lol... "Show me how the maverick's do it, baby... Oh, you are a dirty maverick...!"
She speaks like birthers type- no sentence structure, no reasonable flow of ideas, and no point. I'm sure that somewhere in her mind at the time was something to the effect of "There's a growing majority... I'm not a racist, but... well, there's an issue of records... I read somewhere... if...but... just look at the FACTS..." and so on.
And then she went down as the hottest hockey mom to ever wear lipstick.
I hate showing up late, but alp- they'd call you a Yank too... I think that was the moral of the story there... Correct me if I am wrong, rikker, but I think the gist of the story was that it doesn't matter where you are, what you study, who you pray to, or what color your skin is- when you're American, you're American.
Our American heritage is composed of more than just white Christians.
Better yet Jimmy- why don't you git yer shotgun, knock off a handle of Evan, have some inbred kids with yer cousin, go on disability, burn down the trailer park with a meth lab, beat yer old lady, steal yer grandma's prescription drugs, rob a liquor store and then blame any and every minority for your troubles?
Ignorance is a two way street, Jimbo. Perpetuating stereotypes does nothing for the conversation. If you can't behave yourself and talk like a big boy, then you are going to have to go to time out.
"Quo warranto is not a right available merely because the appropriate legal documents are filed. Valid reason must be indicated to justify governmental interference with the individual holding the challenged office, privilege, or license."
What you lack here is the valid reason to justify interference. Your belief (dare I say delusion),no matter how strong, is not going to convince any judge to admit your claim because the authorities on the subject have already weighed in with opinions to the contrary.
Even if you were successful in your pursuit of having a judge admit your quo warranto claim- the defendant still retains innocence until guilt is proven in the court room. To erroneously proclaim guilt before that proceeding is heard constitutes malicious language and can result in a claim of libel against you to recover damages related to character defamation.
Agreed, tsiya- If the government starts arresting outspoken citizens there would be an uprising, and rightfully so. Kicker is- it's not going to come to that over a birth certificate. You guys have not found the magic bullet to set doomsday into motion just yet.
No problem, ren, I just see a lot of people in the birth certificate movement speaking out of turn... Your arguments would carry more weight if they addressed more facts than the usual baseless emotional accusations.
You have to remember that this guy, like him or not, was voted into office by the majority, and he's probably not going anywhere. If you can't produce any evidence to the contrary, then you have to work under the assumption of innocence. That's how we do it in America- you don't have to like the laws, but you do have to respect them.
You think he killed his grandmother? You got any evidence to back that up?
You think he wants to start a civil war? How would that benefit him? How would that benefit anyone?
Realize that baseless public accusation is criminal- known as libel. It's not censorship if it was illegal to begin with. Just watch what you say, or run the risk of sounding like a 2bit looney tune.
I just read his article, and he said the post was removed on the 3rd- that was the day the crap really hit the fan here with the Birth Certificate deal. Just about everything was flagged for moderation because of site spamming, but many of the top issues were returned after a number of hours- though not in their original line up as voting was inhibited by the posts being hidden during that time.
It's back up now, though, and is among the top ideas generated.
The Constitution might protect free speech, but certain language is NOT ALLOWED in that definition. Written accusation without evidence is known as LIBEL. Since you have no proof, your accusations are otherwise unsubstantiated by the legal & judiciary system, and you continually try to convince everyone that your statements are factual- the bare truth is that you are all guilty of libel, a criminal offense.
Asking for a birth certificate isn't covered by the definition of libel you might say, but I counter with the FACT that most of you rant and rave that Obama IS a foreigner, that Obama IS a traitor, and that Obama IS a criminal usurper of the Office of the President of the United States of America. What's more you constantly try to PROVE this to people who aren't listening. This speech is libelous, and I for one wish that Obama was the kind of guy that would sink to your level and have YOU prove yourselves or else face criminal and civil prosecution.
Now, I implore you, any one of you, to SHOW YOUR SMOKING GUN! I can show mine on any one of a thousand posts on this site.
I am sooooo tired of explaining this to people here, but here we go again...
Transparency, in as much as it relates to this site, is about opening up the policies and procedures of government AGENCIES. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with attacking the credentials of elected officials.
Transparency,in theory, and supposing you whack jobs don't get it pulled before it begins, gives the public insight into what these elected officials are doing with our tax dollars so we can decide better who to either re-elect or replace when the time comes.
Transparency might help to improve the efficiency of a vastly inefficient system of bureaucracy, that is if you wingnuts will, as rikker pointed out, STFU and let the government work for you.
Now- quit whining, and either show us the SMOKING GUN or confess that you have NO PROOF.
The Constitution might protect free speech, but certain language is NOT ALLOWED in that definition. Written accusation without evidence is known as LIBEL. Since you have no proof, your accusations are otherwise unsubstantiated by the legal & judiciary system, and you continually try to convince everyone that your statements are factual- the bare truth is that you are all guilty of libel, a criminal offense.
Asking for a birth certificate isn't covered by the definition of libel you might say, but I counter with the FACT that most of you rant and rave that Obama IS a foreigner, that Obama IS a traitor, and that Obama IS a criminal usurper of the Office of the President of the United States of America. What's more you constantly try to PROVE this to people who aren't listening. This speech is libelous, and I for one wish that Obama was the kind of guy that would sink to your level and have YOU prove yourselves or else face criminal and civil prosecution.
Now, I implore you, any one of you, to SHOW ME YOUR SMOKING GUN! I can show mine on any one of a thousand posts on this site.
You know what happens when we start to assume, right?
Anyway, skyraiderair, I am neither a democrat, nor did I vote for Obama in the 2008 election. Here's the thing, though, I'm not a sore loser. He's the president, and that's the truth for all of us for the next 3 and a half years. Instead of stomping around like a mad cow making wild unfounded accusations for which I have no proof- I am playing the role of the "bigger man" and trying to find ways to work with him in as much as he seems interested in working with me.
Wingnut takeovers of government web sites do nothing but add animosity to the conversation, and you should all be ashamed of yourselves for acting like spoiled children.
I don't expect positive responses to deliberate spam-I'm just humoring myself with the obtuse ranting of wingnut birthers. Thanks for adding to my enjoyment!
Yeti Descendant is a reference to "Bob" Dobbs... kind of an inside joke.
Names aside, you just proved my point that nobody is going to be able set this accusation to rest. No amount of CONFIRMED proof will satisfy the issue because it is partisan whining disguised as a grand conspiracy.
The TRUTH is that it has been confirmed by authorities on the subject, and you still don't believe it.
Whether you choose to identify yourself with the other birthers is a moot point- that argument has no legs. The simple fact is that your arguments and accusations are all exactly the same. This makes you a cohort within a larger group whether you like it or not.
To whom does it need to be shown? To you? To me? It's been shown to the experts in the state in which it is filed and was issued- they say it's real. Do you have some insider knowledge on birth certificates from Hawaii that they don't have?
Your group's repeated postings that are centered around beating a dead horse aren't appreciated either.
Did you even read Creepy's ridiculous post? What my comment above proves is that creepy's statement, "As anyone who's ever had to get a copy of their birth certificate knows, the hospital is the place to get it." is absolutely false. I never once said that any of you could use that info to receive a copy- I included it for completeness.
You guys are just fishing with any excuse that comes down the pipe. Hawaiian state officials have verified the existence and validity of President Obama's birth certificate. Nobody has to show it to you because you aren't an expert that could either prove or disprove anything by seeing it. You don't have the credentials or the right. Get over it.
Read my post above- it shreds creepy's argument. Read- http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html
Your argument has been DISROVEN- welcome to 4 years of a democrat in office. Deal with it. Vote again in 3 and a half years for someone you like better.
skyraiderair: Let me try to sum up your argument..
"Now that the BC accusations have proven to be false let's go after something else- this time it has nothing to do with the Constitution, and we can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that we are just partisan whiners"
In effect let's keep this false accusation thing going because we already have too much invested to just give up- we'd look like fools...
Let me know if you make any head way with the Selective Service Board. Okay, Buddy?
A quick Google for "Where do I go to get my birth certificate?" produced this. You may notice that it makes no mention of having to go to the hospital where I was born- as hospitals sometimes go out of business....
"Birth certificates can be obtained in the city and state in which you were born. If you don't know where you were born, ask your parents or another family member. Or, look in a family genealogy to find out in what city and state you were born.
Try to find the original copy of your birth certificate. It will list the information you need to get a new, certified copy. Your old certificate will most likely not be certified, which makes it an informational document only.
Locate the phone number for the Department of Health in that city. Call Directory Assistance or log onto the Internet and perform a search.
Ask the Health Department what information you need to send in, or take with you, to get your certified birth certificate. You'll probably need identification such as a current driver's license and your Social Security card.
Send via the U.S. post office the applicable information along with the required fee. Or, drive to the location of the Health Department to get a certified copy of your birth certificate in person. Getting Your Birth Certificate by Using the Internet
You can visit the National Center for Health Statistics website. Click on the state in which you were born, not where you currently reside.
The listing will give you the cost of the copy of your birth certificate and the address for the department of health in that state. It will also tell you what information you need to include with your request, which is most often a valid picture ID."
Address: State Department of Health Office of Health Status Monitoring Vital Records Section P.O. Box 3378 Honolulu, HI 96801-9984
Remarks: State office has records since 1853. Additional copies ordered at the same time are $4.00 each.
Cashier's check, certified check, or money order should be made payable to State Department of Health. Personal checks are not accepted. To verify current fees, the telephone number is (808) 586-4533. This is a recorded message. Information on how to obtain certified copies is also available via the Hawaii State Department of Health, Vital Records website."
Still no mention of having to go to the hospital of birth...
Sally- that is IMPOSSIBLE- a lot of us have been screaming that to skies lately.
As far as the email thing- none of the remedies mentioned here work- the digest does nothing but send you an extra email on top of all the others, and unchecking the box is just as useless. As far as I can tell there is no way to stop the endless barrage of messages unless you just set them to spam.
If you want to continue in a few conversations- bookmark the ones you want to participate in, and check them periodically for any updates. I've found that to be the most effective for me- going through a hundred emails a day gets old, and I usually give up before I get to the ones I think are actually important.
Another thing is that I can't find a way to opt out if this site altogether- no way to completely remove my account. The brainstorming was officially over about a week ago, and there's no option close the account. I suspect that this was an attempt to thwart abuse by multiple logins, but it has become an annoyance.
A lot of people have been having the same problem- I would just set it up so that my spam filter catches all of them. Then just erase the spam folder in bulk.
In the future: Always use an email other than your primary address for discussions like this. From experience, long discussions produce A LOT of email.
Actually, sixcons, I rattled those off before going to sleep last night. Thanks for the sideways compliment, but do you think I care enough to about this to wast time researching slogans- I've been doing a good enough job of poking fun at you all by myself. There is no need to plagiarize- you guys provide all the ammo I will ever need.
To speak to your analogy: First of all, the registration is for my vehicle, and in no way identifies me. My driver's license (that does identify me) looks different than a driver's license produced in any other state.
I am from Alabama- if I am pulled over in Florida they have to accept the fact that my DL looks different than the ones that they are used to seeing, it looks different than the one in their wallets. If they were to demand that I show further proof of who I am because the think my DL is fake, then we have entered into an unwinnable argument on both sides. I could accuse theirs of being fake as well, and in effect challenge their "legitimacy " as Florida Police Officers. When Alabama and Florida State Document Identification Specialist were rushed in to decide this all important issue they would tell us all to go away- because we are both wrong, or both right- depending on the viewpoint. To argue any further is just a waste of breath.
Like the hypothetical DL issue above the LFBC issue has been put to rest by the Hawaiian officials...
The fact that YOU want to see it is fully beside the point- I am just guessing, but the safe bet is that you aren't an expert in identifying Hawaiian State Documents- so even if you did see it you couldn't say either way...am I right?
Are you under the delusion that after a few months of research on internet conspiracy sites you are now an expert on Hawaiian state documents?
Does this internet research make your word more reliable than the Hawaiian State officials?
Thanks in advance for all the laughs I will get from your response.
1. We Have No Evidence, But We Don't Care 2. The Courts Won't Listen So You Shouldn't Either 3. Caution: Waste Of Time Conspiracy Theory Ahead 4. Free To A Good Home: The Conservative Agenda 5. Need A Good Laugh- Talk To A Birther! 6. We've Got(no)Proof 7. Our Argument Has No Legs, Please Help. 8. Free Speech For Dummies 9. Birthers: Even Rush Thinks We're Nuts 10. Birthers: Misinterpreting The Constitution Since 2009 11. Will Work For Spam 12. We Love Nuts- Come & Teabag A Birther 13. Citizen Grand Juries: Frivolous Since 2009 14. Tiny Billboards For Tiny Minds 15. I AM An Exercise In Futility 16. I Spammed A Website- Now I'm Spamming My Yard! 17. All I Want For Christmas Is An Argument With Teeth 18. Blue In The Face, But No One Is Listening 19. If You Like Laughing, You'll Love The Birthers 20. I'm With Stupid
He's got a BC signed by dudley doright saying Obama's a foreigner- what more does he need? The only reason the courts are not hearing the argument is because of the trillions he has spent on attorneys to cover it up... The whole stimulus package was JUST A PLOY TO pay for attorneys fees- money grubbing socialist attorneys that specialize in marxist law. This is the Constitution we are talking about here- I'm not a racist, but we don't need some half black-half white-Canadian-Kenyan-Hawaiian-Black Irish-Muslim with an English passport USURPing the 18th amendment just because THE MAJORITY OF THIS COUNTRY is now populated by left wing radicals THAT only CARE ABOUT MAKING AMERICA A STRONGER COUNTRY. And Phil Berg is a very brave and honest man- not to mention the fact that he is obviously the brightest light on anybody's Christmas tree- which goes TO PROVE what a wonderful Christian man he really is, and CHRISTIANS HAVE A PATENT ON WHAT'S RIGHT. Prove that wrong you Liberal! Show us the birth certificate now, Mr. Obama!
Just read the part in all caps to decode the hidden birther message!
He's got a BC signed by dudley doright saying Obama's a foreigner- what more does he need? The only reason the courts are not hearing the argument is because of the TRILLIONS he has spent on attorneys to cover it up... The whole stimulus package was just a ploy to pay for attorneys fees- money grubbing socialist attorneys that specialize in marxist law. This is the Constitution we are talking about here- I'm not a racist, but we don't need some half black-half white-Canadian-Kenyan-Hawaiian-Black Irish-Muslim with an English passport usurping the 18th amendment just because the majority of this country is now populated by left wing radicals that only care about making America a stronger country. And Phil Berg is a very brave and honest man- not to mention the fact that he is obviously the brightest light on anybody's Christmas tree- which goes to prove what a wonderful Christian man he really is, and Christians have a patent on what's right. Prove that wrong you Liberal! SHOW US THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE NOW, MR. OBAMA!
You may ask : Why did you post this, this has nothing to do with a birth certificate?
My answer: Because it's far more entertaining than the same TIRED question, AND it has just about as much to do with transparency in government as most of the posts here.
rich- I haven't seen many actual conservative arguments posted to this site- mostly a bunch of people repeatedly asking the same tired question. Many have been racist, even more have been poorly worded, and most have just been spam. There is one legitimate request for our President's birth certificate on this site, and it's available to be voted on here:
http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/4766-4049
And yes, I will marginalize this group as "birthers." It's my first amendment right to free speech granted by the CONSTITUTION that you all love to point out, but likely know nothing about. It's my right to point and laugh at ignorance when I see it, and being called a "birther" is just about, but not quite, as marginalizing as being called a "left wing extremist" or a "communist" by the majority of the "birthers" for simply not agreeing with your propaganda. How ya like them apples?
In every post that I have seen that addresses transparency in any other way than "where's the birth certificate?" there is always some moron who steps up off topic to ask the same TIRED question- disagree with that moron, get called a commie- simple as that. It's a crap way to conduct business.
What's more, others' legitimate ideas are voted down in an effort to increase exposure to THE SAME TIRED QUESTION. Or else you guys have lost the ability to read anything other than those two words and vote these ideas down because English is now a language of communists.
A lot of us, the MAJORITY of us- from SANE conservatives, through the realm of the moderates,and all the way to the other guys on the left- are tired of this question, none of us are buying into your lame assertions, and we would just like some peace and quiet to enjoy some grown up time at the table without the whiny brats running around mucking up the works.
Big Rooster- you do realize that this post is a complement to conservatives, right? I've seen you do a good bit of liberal bashing over the last few days, and I guess I thought you were of the conservative persuasion...
Forcing people to wear cameras 24/7...!? You guys repeat and contradict yourselves so often it's getting too easy to poke fun at you- It's now so easy it's almost losing its appeal- well, almost.
One minute it's a birth certificate and your love of the constitution... after that you want to restrict the rights of others- on up to the point that you post this ludicrous idea about "cameras for congressmen."
If anyone but your birther cronies had posted this you would be, with good reason, screaming to high heaven about a conspiracy to restrict privacy and the disintegration of the constitution- but I see it's getting positive votes... I do like the tags, though, that is some funny stuff! Wait a minute, is that what you're all really looking for here? Is the right wing going a bit pink now?
This persons name is ACCOUNTSTEALERZ, and he claims to not be a spammer with multiple logins...? How many accounts have you stolen, accountstealerz?
Yeah, the birthers have totally wrecked this site to promote bogus claims in an attempt to unseat a president that they think is "foreign." Judging from a few posts I have seen come and go, I suspect that for many of them "foreign" is code for "not-white." For the others, I am convinced that "foreign" is code for "smart" or "articulate" as these loonies have an automatic distaste for anything that's well written, spelled correctly, or adequately thought out. This is evidenced by the fact that you can usually tell how good an idea is here by the amount of votes it has- there are some exceptions, but in most cases the lower the ranking the better the idea.
In any case I don't think there is any way to counter their stupidity without sinking to their level and spamming back at them- but that would just feed into their conspiracy mindset even further causing the rest of us even more annoyance in the long run.
See this post for a good laugh at some pretty honest truth about the mindset of the birther conspiracy:
I agree with you that there should also be a site where we could petition the government directly- that this also has an important role in transparency in as much as it clarifies the public voice on government operation. It would be far more visible than the days of writing letters to officials since we could see the numbers involved, and in seeing those numbers we would have a reasonable expectation to see results produced.
If this proposed site existed, then I agree wholeheartedly that no poster should be censored under any circumstances. I still believe that even on a site like that, that there should be some moderation for duplicate posts lest the conversation once again devolve into anarchy. I don't believe that moderation that strictly worked within those confines to prevent spamming, threats, and abuse constitutes as censorship.
All I am saying here is that this is not the proper forum. I, too, am waiting on that proposed forum to arrive, and I am hopeful that it will. Has anyone listed this idea, a site for open petition, as a topic to promote government transparency on this site...?
So that's where the flaw is- you guys are all reading "open government dialogue" to mean "open dialogue with the government" when the conversation is supposed to be about "a dialogue about open government." It's all in semantics- I finally understand!
The site was set up to address issues on implementing transparency of government agencies so that we can (after implementation) watch the operations and be more informed of where our tax dollars are spent. This dialogue is the beginning of that process. Moderation just helps to improve efficiency in getting "on topic" ideas heard.
It was moderated because it is a post, rather a question, that should have been an email to the moderator. It isn't an issue for comment, and it isn't an issue that contributes to the aim of government transparency. "Why am I being censored?" offers nothing to the general discussion of agency transparency- it just clogs up the works with another spam post.
ldrancer- you're back! I missed your thoughtful words. I think you must be the smartest person here. If they don't listen to you they probably won't listen to anybody. It also looks like your spelling, punctuation, and grammar are getting better everyday. Glad you're having fun with the rhyme time- I don't see that I rhymed anywhere, but who am I to challenge a delusion.
BTW, ldrancer loves to flag posts and comments for removal. Good times!
tsiya- you assume they are on trial or that transparency means personal accountability... I think the real thrust of the site is about AGENCY transparency- figuring out a way for us to monitor the policies that are being developed and watch where our money is being spent. The idea is about informing us on the operations of government not giving us an outlet to wage personal or political attack.
Maybe they flagged it because you can't spell "censored"... Also, I have a hard time believing you wrote anything thought provoking since this and at least three of the other posts you mention are non issues.
Orwell quotes- non issue, although I'm sure it was a great read.
Where do your posts go?- non issue
Treasonous executive orders- since it isn't based in reality- non issue.
Bush tax cuts- YAY, real issue! However, it has no place on a site about government transparency, which makes it- you guessed it- a non issue.
This is a great idea! You can tell by the time it took to get negative votes...
It's too bad that it is falling mainly on the deaf ears of those who believe that the only issue worth discussing begins and ends with a birth certificate.
You make an important point, though, to the rest of us that are interested in a rational conversation about government transparency and addressing the issue of ways to process that information.
The awards aren't the cost for most doctors- the cost IS (among other things briefly mentioned in my last comment) in maintaining RIDICULOUSLY EXPENSIVE malpractice insurance. The truth is that there is a full laundry list of things that drive the cost of health care so high, and if you want to maintain the same level of care that you expect now, then the costs will remain high.
To fix the problems we have now we are going to have to take a many factored approach to address many different elements. To think that there is a "magic bullet" that will fix all the problems is a gross oversimplification.
This is a step that would help to drive costs down- would it make health care anywhere near affordable? probably not. Would it work as a step in the right direction? hell yes.
To me it sounds a lot like the nazis or the KGB asking for someone's "papers." It just has that ring of the eastern European accent that you hear in James Bond flicks or old cold war movies. Truth is I have NO idea where my original birth certificate is. If you waned to see mine I would go to the health department, take whatever form they gave me, and that would have to suffice. Short form, long form, who cares- the courts don't.
I was born and raised in Alabama to a family that's been in this country since well before the revolution, and chances are that there is no way I could ever prove to any of the self appointed birth certificate experts here that I am a "natural born citizen." It's a sorry state of affairs when the so called "defenders of the constitution" rant and rave the jargon of fascist and totalitarian governments. Show us your papers!? Give me a break.
The best post I have seen addressing the topic can be found here:
Anyone that votes against tort reform has no idea what it costs doctors and hospitals to maintain malpractice insurance. Mistakes happen and injured parties need to be compensated for their losses. I don't think anyone disagrees with that. However, the reality is that people often sue when there have been no damages, and legal representation to defend against the abuses of the system is a large part of what drives medical costs up.
The high and rising costs of malpractice insurance in some fields of medicine is causing a shortage of new doctors. Young doctors begin their careers hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and malpractice insurance in some fields costs hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.
Those outside the medical field have no idea what goes on behind the scenes so they often think that there is some easy fix for the rise in health care costs- there isn't. Despite the high costs there is little to no profit. Most hospitals are merely trying to break even at the end of the year, and many are closing their doors.
There is the cost of constant upgrades in equipment required to offer the best level of care, there are countless staff that work behind the scenes, there are nurses, PA's, therapist, etc. There's far more to it than what you see during your office visit. The money you spend gets divided very quickly, and health insurance companies are near criminal in their abilities to withhold payment for services rendered.
Tort reform could go a long way in helping to decrease the costs and improve the quality of health care in the U.S.
The issue here is that some people take things a little more than seriously, and can in some cases find no other resolution to an argument but by violence. Left and Right wing groups are equally guilty of this. Extremists on any side are dangerous, and putting a name on an idea or rebuttal that might provoke an extremist to harm someone is a very dangerous idea indeed.
Some people find it impossible to "agree to disagree" and we wind up with a tragedy.
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
Not knocking your ideas or anything, but please drop it with the duplicate posting! If you have an idea that hasn't been addressed already then please add it to the list. As it stands, there are already plenty of ideas posted about all 3 of these topics. Vote on them. If you feel the further need to add your opinion to those posts feel free to add them in the comments section provided at the bottom of each post.
I am very much pro pot, I am all for exploring alternatives to the Federal banking system, and if you need more proof of Obama's birth certificate then by all means ask for it.
But do it in a way that shows that you are able to acknowledge the proper rules of engagement that this site dictates in its policies. Repeated posting does not constitute more votes, voting up your issues is what is in the end going to generate the most response from the use of this site.
What you are assuming (incorrectly) is that the western United States played no part in electing President Obama when in fact 96 electoral votes for Obama came from far west of the Mississippi. These states include Hawaii, California, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, and New Mexico.
I, on the other hand, live in the southEAST that overwhelmingly (except for Florida) supported McCain, and I'll take a nation led by a fairly elected president over a nation overrun by squabbling right wing conspiracy theorists any day.
Get your facts straight before you go making ludicrous posts that have no place on this site.
Other than that, if you can make it happen I am more than willing to live on whichever side of the country that you aren't.
The real question here is why we let bigots like you continue to post trash like this- because it's AMERICA asshole.
Love it or leave it, we were founded on the ideal that ALL men are created equal, and your freedom to post trash like is guaranteed in the same document that also guarantees RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.
I fully support the idea, but please don't spam the site with duplicate posts- it makes us look as bad as the birth certificate folks. Just vote for the two posts that are already at the top spots- #3 and #5. If we can vote those up the the top (again) they will at least start to get the message that we are serious and representative of a larger number of voters.
We are a group that is often marginalized and disqualified as a fringe minority of "dumb stoners." Spamming the site with duplicates only serves to detract from the already little credibility that we have with government- so please try to play by the rules and cast your vote in a manner that applies to guidelines of the site.
I fully support the idea, but please don't spam the site with duplicate posts- it makes us look as bad as the birth certificate folks. Just vote for the two posts that are already at the top spots- #3 and #5. If we can vote those up the the top (again) they will at least start to get the message that we are serious and representative of a larger number of voters.
We are a group that is often marginalized and disqualified as a fringe minority of "dumb stoners." Spamming the site with duplicates only serves to detract from the already little credibility that we have with government- so please try to play by the rules and cast your vote in a manner that applies to guidelines of the site.
Still got me nowhere- these people refuse to listen to any sort of reason, and if you refute their claim to the slightest degree then you are now marginalized as left wing and part of the conspiracy.
Good luck! I tried reasoning earlier- got me nowhere. See this post:
http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/5690-4049
I tried to reason for hours that one post was adequate, and that all was needed from that point was to vote- read the comments and see where that got me.
Still dumb and still treason. This post could get you in more trouble than you know. There's a special cell in Gitmo for this sort of thing, and you'll be wishing for water boarding when they get through nullifying your little mind. The fact that you keep posting this same treasonous post makes you look crazier by the second. Even your cohorts have said that you are a the lowest form of idiot for saying something this stupid.
While I can see the validity of the point you are making you have forgotten about the overwhelming stupidity of a lot of people in this country. Where this would fail is with the same faction of people who took over this site and reduced it to anarchy to forward a racist conspiracy agenda. I can see it now:
Option 1. A whole bunch of racist paranoids proclaiming that these video boxes were tracking devices meant to invade their privacy. This would lead to a new fashion craze- the tin foil trucker hat.
Option 2. A whole bunch of racist paranoids that stick to the current insanity and mindlessly rant about the president's family tree and birth certificate. This will also inevitably lead to a tin foil trucker hat craze.
In order to keep tin foil trucker hats from hitting the streets we'll just have to stick with what we got- sorry, bra.
The reason the economy is in the gutter is not from federal spending it's because Americans want too many things and nothing is made in America any more because we can't afford the products made here.
If you want to see things improve, buy less foreign junk from Wal Mart and save your money to buy American.
After 30 years of sending all our money to Asia and the third world for the crap that we all "need" to live beyond our means what do you expect?
Now we need China to loan us money. The same China that used to be renowned for starving children. Where do you think that money came from?
You can't blame the government for everything if you aren't willing to scale back yourself.
These ideas are being deleted because there are too damn many to count, and because of posters like you who say things that border on paranoid rambling- the likes of which are usually reserved for the padded room.
There is no fraud here- except for anyone that fraudulently upholds that anything intelligent was written in that dribble of a post you submitted. I honestly hope they keep yours around for a little while so the rest of us can get a good laugh when we need it.
Man, you can't say anything on this site without being immediately marginalized as a radical by a birther. I think they should put up a filter that scans each post for any reference to a birth certificate- if one is found then the message doesn't get through. Simple. Effective. Best of all, it really pisses off the birther as he keeps trying to post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post and post etc. and so on and so on ad infinitum.
Alright miles- I'll meet you at the offices of the organization of organizations tomorrow so we can get to work with the other top leaders of the Obama Machine, the Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderburg Group to hash out some plans to defeat those pesky aluminum foil helmets- seems the fluoride isn't working as well as it used to. I have made sure that the Moderators have been logging the IP's of those that we have found to be the sickest so we know where at least a few are located when we have a prototype up and ready for human subject testing.
In the meantime I have also been in contact with Saul Alinsky. He made the suggestion that we may also need to get FEMA on board with their new door to door GPS tracking program so we can log areas with the highest incidences of this mass hysteria in an effort to get help to those areas that have been hit the hardest.
With any luck the worst will be over by next year, but the disease does seem to be spreading rapidly.
I don't have any energy left for this- I have to admit that I am pretty much sapped from trying to just make the point that YOUR issues would carry more weight if they were addressed in a more appropriate manner.
Just know that this website is about the only place that these ideas will be heard as no one outside of this forum is going pay much attention to what you are saying if you keep saying it in this same way.
I agree that some rules are made to be broken, but this site has been broken by the overwhelming abuse by a certain faction of users. You now have on the entry screen a message from the site moderators asking outright for these abuses to stop. If it continues do you think that they will become any more responsive? My best guess is that they will just shut this site down, and that ruins it for all of us- regardless of political viewpoint.
I, too, am impressed by the passion of the users here, but I disagree with their inability to put intellect before emotion. All I am saying is that the argument would carry more weight if people would address it appropriately.
You can't reference the American Revolution when trying to defend the anarchy that this site has become. There is no organization to the repeated posting. Our Revolution was orchestrated by intelligent men with a very clear understanding of the uses and the pitfalls of diplomacy, and they knew well when to use it and when it was time to abandon it.
ABSOLUTE BEST IDEA EVER!!!! Thank you so much for this post, I have been trying to debate this point for three days, and you just can't challenge a delusion. If this law goes into effect can we also be sure to limit the internet access of the afflicted?
My post is expressing the thoughts of the site. I have seen multiple posts today from people surprised that their previous post was deleted- I was just offering the idea that if people would follow the guidelines of the site by not posting a multitude of duplicates and using threatening language then they would be more apt to have their issues taken seriously. As it stands, this group's opinions are being looked at as an annoyance by sole virtue of the superfluous number of posts made expressing the exact same viewpoint.
I haven't resorted to name calling, I haven't argued either way about the issue of Obama's birth, and I haven't expressed one opinion here to discourage the practice of free expression. What I have done is invite people to use this site appropriately. If that is unacceptable, then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
I didn't try to force anyone to do anything, I didn't ask for a response, and I never called anyone a racist. What I said was: "The language being used is becoming more and more threatening and overtly racist."
All I asked for was for people to monitor duplicate posting, refrain from offensive language, and vote for their issues in a manner congruent with the guidelines of this site.
And so you'll know my stance, I believe that in a democracy people should speak their minds, but in a civil manner or else run the risk of all conversations breaking down into ill-tempered arguments such as you are trying to provoke.
The Constitution allows for free speech, but speech meant to cause malice, promote fear, or to incite violence is not protected under the First Amendment. Your freedoms and rights come at the cost of your own responsibility to use them appropriately.
"If these rules aren't followed in debate, then what was open dialogue melts down into common bickering and name calling." So, you want to revert now to common bickering? You've already begun the name- calling... It's not that you are going to hurt my feelings- it's more that you ARE hurting your own cause by letting your emotions outweigh your intellect. Although my post mentions that there is some racist language amongst the posts here, that is not an invitation to defend a racist position here.
Sorry, scotty, but I'm not going to get sucked into an argument about race- I think it's a moot point. Read my post, vote it up or vote it down. If you want to debate what I've said originally we can talk, but (not to be redundant) race is not an issue to be discussed here.
Enquirer- lol, because you make it so darn easy. And if you look at it from another perspective, you can see that both sides are equally guilty of ridiculing their opposition. It's easier to ridicule than debate as their is no rebuttal to ridicule- only a defensive posture that receives more ridicule for being defensive. The right does it, the left does it, the independents do it, we all do it. Doesn't make it right, but I'm just offering up the facts.
Kind of a Catch-22 you got me into there, scott- you say he's interracial, lang says he's black. I say it doesn't matter either way. Who's right? I'll leave you and lang to fight it out, you both seem like pretty intelligent guys.
Of the "liberal radicals" here, a quick show of hands of anyone that has heard of "Saul Alinsky" before being harassed by a birther... I've never heard the name before these guys started throwing it out everywhere on this site. It sounds like some of these folks have gotten hold of some of the same propagandist's viewpoint that the "left wing" is out to get them- something akin to the boogey man.
This item has been replaced at that spot by another post submitting that the classification be lowered from Scedule I on the CSA list. I submit that this post is singular against that idea as it calls for the removal of any law surrounding the scheduling of marijuana as a controlled substance.
just dumb, really dumb- this post is very close to a language of treason, this language is not supported by the first amendment, and is prosecutable in a criminal court.
I support your idea, but it is a duplicate of one that is already gaining support. Please, like I am saying to the birth certificate folks, limit the posting of duplicate ideas or you run the risk of them all being erased due to duplication.
I am not saying that every post is racist or that every person worried about the issue of the birth certificate is a racist. I am saying that there are some posts that are getting support that are using racist language, and that anyone legitimately concerned with having this idea taken seriously by anyone other than racists should be mindful of the language used by their cohorts.
If that's your cause then keep asking- shout it to the tree tops- just do it in a more appropriate manner that subscribes to the posting guidelines of this site.
That's exactly the inflammatory language I was addressing in my post above. When the rules of open dialogue are thrown out we all resort to bickering and name calling- that's not forwarding anyone's cause.
That's not up for debate here- what I have offered in this idea is that people need to vote for ideas already on the table. If there are previous posts that you can vote on, then that is more effective than reposting the same thing over and over again.
And with that I can say I agree- there are multiple marijuana posts- some are duplicates, and others are presenting a slightly different viewpoint. There are still nowhere near the overwhelming number of posts asking for Obama's birth certificate. So, while not perfect in their posting behavior, I think we can all agree that even the potheads are doing a better job of playing by the rules.
The "5000 requests" are multiple posts from the same users. Last I checked, our government relies on a one person- one vote scheme. One person shouting something 5000 times does not constitute 5000 votes.
Skin color should not be, nor is it, an issue to be posted here. Your demand to be heard would be much more effective if you were to simply vote up a single topic to the highest ranking and stop using racist and offensive language. The "Obama Machine" isn't squashing any issues on this site as far as I have seen- as of last I checked your cause is still among the top voted issues.
This isn't a proposal- it's a question... How do you think I should vote on a question? Why don't you repost with something akin to Paul's "Audit the Fed" policy, and then we can vote on whether we think that's a good idea.
This would be a direct violation of health privacy. If you want to list that your deceased family member was an organ donor in their obituary that is your right, but to initiate total transparency in health care is a pretty slippery slope- that information is rightfully private.
Propane (C3H8), when burned in oxygen produces: 3CO2 + 4H2O.
C3H8 + 5 O2 → 3 CO2 + 4 H2O + heat Propane + Oxygen → Carbon Dioxide + Water
This is a far cry from producing only water vapor- it is still a fossil fuel, and it still releases carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
Hydrogen (H2) on the other hand produces only water vapor as a by product of combustion, but the fuel cell doesn't rely on the combustion of hydrogen. I'm not going to go into the finer workings of the fuel cell because that's not my field of expertise, but suffice to say that it works on the principle of a battery in the exchange of electrons from hydrogen to oxygen to produce electricity. Either way, the by product is still only water vapor.
I will give it to you that hybrids don't seem to be living up to the hype, but I gotta vote you down for trying to assert that LPG is a "clean" fuel. It might be a good alternative to what we are using now, but it doesn't hold up as a long term solution in decreasing environmental impact.
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
"Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded."
Abraham Lincoln (1809-65), U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives
What I meant from this was more: where's the incentive? The government is going to have to get behind more legislation, and honestly they are going to have to drop some coin to help back a fledgling green industry. The way this economy is going is giving an opportunity to get this to work a little faster- I think the government is going to play a big part in helping to guide the future of American energy independence- from what I've learned, they played a pretty large role in helping build the fossil fuel infrastructure.
As far as my language goes- you should read some of the things people are writing here. I haven't really said much other than "let's debate" or "try not to spam so heavily" until others went on the attack because they somehow think I am "trying to silence them ","smear them", or somehow limit their right to free speech. The whole birth certificate issue really brought this site to a pretty low level, and I will admit that sometimes enjoy "egging" people on.
Whatever, I liked the fact that you replied with a reasonable comment that made me think. I thought I needed to make clarifications in places based on the questions you raised, and I figured since you mentioned my language in places that I owed some explanation to prove that I am willing to accept criticism- just not willing to sit back and watch the abuse of an idea/tool that I think could be put to very good use in keeping the government honest.
HALF BLACK PRESIDENT 100% GANGSTA! A DISGRACE TO THE BLACK MOVEMENT jbabajian 1 minute ago
Okay, so Obama sucks, we all know that he is simply evil or delusional: The World's Greatest Huckster or a misguided idealest. Either way, he is a dangerous menace who must be stopped. Gangsta Obama has led an unprecedented theft of our future and any vision of The American Dream for generations to come.
He needs to be "taken-out" by Congress Members who will not be bullied into compliance for fear of alienating certain minority bases, like the blacks and latinos who are only too happy to fall in line with Obama's dangerous leftwing agenda, aimed at ruining our way of life, under the guise of fairness and repairations.
The gangsta must show us a copy of his birth certificate. There is no way you can convince me that Hawaii has no photocopying machines.
Even if Mr. Obama was born in the U. S., the prick still needs to go. Like black comedian Chris Rock says, "I love black people, but I hate niggers". That's a a fair sentiment, ONLY if you use the "N" word as a slang to describe an African American Thief with little or no regard for his or her victims.
Obama is clearly a gangsta thief, however he can never be called the "N" word, because he's not "African American"....well he is, only as much as he is white.
Our first Mulato President is robbing us blind and he may not even be eligible to hold office.
Either way, I sincerely hope that Congress will wake-up and stop acting mesmorized by his even-temperedness. It's a calculated act to avoid harsh criticism.
Obabma must be taken-out swifty. Impeach the gangsta
The only smear campaign on this website is being perpetrated by those who are constantly complaining of being smeared. I'm pretty sure I only said "a$$hole" once- I was flagged because I invited others to share the depth of your shared psychosis to the mainstream world. How's that for a conspiracy to limit free speech? Why doesn't the conservative media report on your issue? Is it because you are crazy, and crazy just doesn't stand up to scrutiny?
Hope we can all learn something from this, but in my experience with small minded demagogues- there is rarely anything that can be done to get either them or their blind followers to listen to any sort of reason. No one is really open to debate here, and what was a beautiful attempt at exercising the finer aspects of our American freedoms has now descended into a conversation based in conspiratorial lunacy. I'm really sorry that it has come to this- as it's just one more thing to support the fact that the majority of American's aren't responsible enough or intelligent enough to handle the freedoms they so often quote.
This is the petition with the most signatures I can find online after doing a search. Sign this puppy, send it to your friends so they can sign it, and have them send it to their friends to sign... let's get the ball rolling on this. If we can get enough voices out there, then they will have to stop denying us our natural rights. The guy who put it together is looking for 100, 000 signatures. I think that with the right word of mouth marketing we can get that number up way further. If f***ing American Idol can get a zillion votes, then so can weed, but we are all going to have to get ACTIVE about it- so get your people to do some signing. Post it on facebook, myspace, digg it, tweet it, whatever you gotta do, just get the word out! We are millions strong, but we often lack the direction to put our energy to good use.
well sorry folks- I've been flagged for moderator approval- guess that means my 1st amendment isn't as valid as yours. Hope we can all learn something from this, but in my experience with small minded demagogues- there is rarely anything that can be done to get either them or their blind followers to listen to any sort of reason. No one is really open to debate here, and what was a beautiful attempt at exercising the finer aspects of our American freedoms has now descended into a conversation based in conspiratorial lunacy. I'm really sorry that it has come to this- as it's just one more thing to support the fact that the majority of American's aren't responsible enough or intelligent enough to handle the freedoms they so often quote. You are all the reasons that our freedoms are slowly disappearing. Thanks for nothing, assholes.
The United States started down this road over seventy years ago with policies that are now known to have their beginnings in racist objectives against Mexican and African – Americans who at that point were the primary users of cannabis as an intoxicant. In these seventy years we have seen much evidence, both scientific and experiential, that the claims made for the initial drive towards prohibition were largely falsified, however, these same reasons are given today as if they were backed by sound science. We have heard the arguments against legalization range from sexual aggression and violent behavior to gateway drug and amotivational syndrome. Law enforcement officials consistently and blindly chant this mantra of ignorant propaganda even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The current school of thought seems to be centered around: 1. The idea that marijuana is a gateway drug leading to more harmful substances, and 2. That it will steal a users motivation to contribute to society in a meaningful way. Both of these claims I reject.
In rebuttal to the idea that marijuana is a gateway drug I offer the idea that prohibition is the real gateway to more addictive substances. The same cartels and gangs that control much of the marijuana trade in the United States also control the trade of other substances such as cocaine and heroin. It stands to reason that if one must seek the underworld to find one then they will certainly encounter the other. In order to make a larger profit, these organized criminals will push the drug that has the highest profit potential- like any business or salesman trying to maximize profit revenues. So, in the end the casual user who might have contributed a couple of hundred dollars yearly to these organizations by way of marijuana is now introduced to a host of new substances that can result in physiological addiction. What this means is that a dollar a day luxury is transformed into a personal contribution of tens of thousands of dollars yearly to the illegal drug trade and a life now ruined by addiction. Prohibition is what sets this all into motion. It is what provides the introduction, and it is what provides the profitability.
Amotivational syndrome is largely put to rest by the headlines. “Michael Phelps Smokes Pot” Is there any basis for this claim that marijuana somehow destroys motivation now that we all know that an Olympian with umpteen gold medals is a user? As a second and altogether more personal example, I also add that the three most current past presidents have also admitted to some recreational use of marijuana- though one didn’t inhale (he also did not have sex with that woman). With these examples I believe we can see a pattern in which at least four people, all from very different walks of life, were able to achieve very lofty goals in spite of their encounters with cannabis.
The laws are very obviously baseless, and are creating more problems than our society can fix. Marijuana offers no proven ill to society, and its users are labeled criminals only to satisfy archaic legislation based on prejudiced misinformation. To reiterate: According to the FBI’s annual report for 2007, marijuana accounted for a total of 47.5 percent of all drug arrests in the U.S.- this amounts to 874, 570 arrests. Of these, 775, 145 were for simple possession. In my state of Alabama the first conviction for possession is a misdemeanor, a second conviction for simple possession of marijuana is a felony. This is a very serious problem- felons can’t vote, felons can’t receive financial aid for college, felons turn back to crime because they can’t find more viable options. This is essentially a victimless crime for which people are paying with their lives. Victims in this case are created by laws that should be there to protect them. Instead, we have created, through prohibition, an entire sector of political prisoners from within our own borders that is composed of our own citizenry. These are otherwise law abiding citizens who have been labeled criminals based on consumption of an unprocessed herb. If they were criminals in any other sense they would have been arrested for other crimes.
I am open to debate on just about anything, but I do think that thousands of posts- most of them terribly written- is overkill for any idea. Especially this nonsense surrounding a birth certificate and college records. You have to know that you all sound pretty crazy- and this coming from a guy who loves conspiracy theories.
The simple point is this: this forum was created to give suggestions about issues that are important to the American people- and to post solutions to these problems. Multiple posts asking for Obama's birth certificate isn't going to fix the economy, and it's certainly not going to get anyone a job.
If you folks would for one second pull your heads out of your asses and put those brains to work on something useful this site might actually do something to influence federal policy. The Constitution you are all so hot to quote is coming to light with forums like this- this is your chance to participate in bringing the principles of the Constitution back to life.
If I remember correctly, GW Bush never put anything like this into motion- he never once asked for a public forum of American opinion. Instead he took us to war based on lies, and limited our freedoms in exchange for fear.
What makes me sad is that you all believe that the constitution protects harassing speech. Spamming this site isn't covered in the 1st Amendment. I honestly and wholeheartedly support your rights to say whatever the hell you want- just don't use your "free speech" to cover up the ideas of the other people here whose ideas are being hidden by the overwhelming number of posts that all say the same thing. Spam is spam, and if you would all just legitimately vote up one idea, your cause would carry more weight.
You are all showing yourselves to closed minded little plebes whenever you say that any objection to your argument is an attack on your freedom of speech. As far as I have seen- you are the only ones doing this to anyone, and all I have said here with this post is that this "hijacking" needs to stop.
#1 I read the whole thing, cap a commie, a few times now, and didn't focus on the one part that singles out my own agenda. If you had any real sense of American freedom you would rethink your site nickname, and you would certainly rethink your argument. If you had any brains at all your group would realize that this spamming only serves to hurt your cause by making you all look like crazy people.
#2 Alot of these posts definitely sound racist to me. The overwhelming bulk of the others just sound misinformed or borderline retarded. There are a couple that are well written- but those are far overshadowed by the high numbers of those posted by full on nut jobs.
#3 Completely annoyed by the takeover of this site by morons.
What makes me sad is that you all believe that the constitution protects harassing speech. Spamming this site isn't covered in the 1st Amendment. I honestly and wholeheartedly support your rights to say whatever the hell you want- just don't use your "free speech" to cover up the ideas of the other people here whose ideas are being hidden by the overwhelming number of posts that all say the same thing. Spam is spam, and if you would all just legitimately vote up one idea, your cause would carry more weight.
You are all showing yourselves to closed minded little plebes whenever you say that any objection to your argument is an attack on your freedom of speech. As far as I have seen- you are the only ones doing this to anyone, and all I have said here with this post is that this "hijacking" needs to stop.
I read the whole thing, cap a commie, a few times now, and didn't focus on the one part that singles out my own agenda. If you had any real sense of American freedom you would rethink your site nickname, and you would certainly rethink your argument. If you had any brains at all your group would realize that this spamming only serves to hurt your cause by making you all look like crazy people.
Alot of these posts definitely sound racist to me. The overwhelming bulk of the others just sound misinformed or borderline retarded. There are a couple that are well written- but those are far overshadowed by the high numbers of those posted by full on nut jobs.
lanijevans- do a search for treason or birth certificate or obama or constitution or transparency- they are all aimed obama's legitimacy. There are literally hundreds of posts about your little conspiracy theory.
The reason your posts are getting locked is because they are one of countless duplications of the same tired conspiracy theory. They are abusive of this system of open dialogue, they are an annoyance to those of us who are actually trying to participate in something effective, and they are an impediment to the legitimate expression of ideas on ways to improve the workings of the federal government on issues that actually matter. Do a web search on "the birthers" and you will see that this site has been written off as hijacked by conspiracy theorists. If you are truly concerned about this issue then do yourselves a favor by voting on one of the previous posts surrounding this topic- the more you post these ideas, the more you will continue to be locked out by sensible moderators looking for abuses and duplications.
I think it's pretty awesome to see that a lot of these conspiracy folks are posting the same comments in every rebuttal to their schizophrenic delusion.
I am open to debate on just about anything, but I do think that thousands of posts- most of them terribly written- is overkill for any idea. Especially this nonsense surrounding a birth certificate and college records. You have to know that you all sound pretty crazy- and this coming from a guy who loves conspiracy theories.
The simple point is this: this forum was created to give suggestions about issues that are important to the American people- and to post solutions to these problems. Obama's birth certificate isn't going to fix the economy, and it's certainly not going to get anyone a job.
If you folks would for one second pull your heads out of your asses and put those brains to work on something useful this site might actually do something to influence federal policy. The Constitution you are all so hot on is coming to light with forums like this- this is your chance to participate in bringing the principles of the Constitution back to life.
If I remember correctly, GW Bush never put anything like this into motion- he never once asked for a public forum of America opinion. Instead he took us to war based on lies, and limited our freedoms in exchange for fear.
phreedomphan- you make all great points. From your post on down to the comments about people not reading the posts that they are voting. It seems there are a lot of "one sentence wonders" on here who refuse to read anything longer than the post title. Anything other than the most base language gets voted down, and god forbid you try any attempt at satire- that really gets people flying off the handle with some pretty abusive comments. I'm not saying you have to agree with what I've said- healthy discourse and debate is what sites like this are supposed to encourage... Just read the post before you vote or comment.
Look, I can understand a reasonable discussion, but you have to admit that 95% of the too many posts about this topic are from some serious whack jobs.
For real, though, I can't see why this has become an issue for this president when I have never heard of it coming up for any other presidents before. GW Bush admitted to some pretty hard partying in his day, and Slick Willie smoked but didn't inhale (right?)... I think it's the middle name and the race thing- along with a failing economy inherited from 8 years of a moron- that have people interested in yelling conspiracy. He's different, and different is an easy thing to point at and blame when things aren't going so well.
Maybe you should sober up before you post comments- your grammar is really terrible- I can't even figure out what you were trying to say with that. Are you sure you are American and not some commie? Because you talk like a commie- you definitely can't speak English very well.
If you have read any of the posts I have put up on this site you should know they are all for American ideals of freedom and equality. There is nothing communist in anything I have said anywhere. You and your birth certificate friends are ranting like the KGB for Obama's "papers"- you guys all sound far more communist than anything I have said. Get your facts straight.
you are an idiot. you are the reason rest of the world thinks all Americans are idiots. the world would be a better place if you and your kind were sent to your own island where you would inevitably interbreed and eat your retarded youngsters for being "commies." Honestly, why don't you just try to say something smart- why don't you read some of the posts on here so you can learn a little bit about how smart people talk to each other? I have no problem with a conservative agenda, but you are bordering on sounding like a drunk nazi with your paranoid rants. I'm sure you will just flag this for removal any way, so I'll just let you off the hook without saying anything too mean...
wow- you are even more small minded than I thought. You had my rebuttal to your comment removed? On my own idea posing no less. You are an absolute loon. Have fun with your tiny mind, I hope it serves you well.
Who gives a shit about a birth certificate- we all know Bush was from TX, he was such a dumbass we didn't need his birth certificate. Do you really think, even in your little redneck pea sized brains, for one instant that there is any possibility that Obama isn't American? Are you just that much of a fucking bigot that you can't believe a black man could have made it into the White House without some major conspiracy? And who is the mastermind behind a conspiracy that wouldn't fact check and at least find a sympathetic natural born citizen to front their "shadow government"? Why wouldn't they have gotten some white guy who looks a whole lot less suspicious- with a name like... hmmm... jeff or chuck or squidmaz- with sympathies for whatever conspiracy that you nuts are trying to claim is going on... Why wouldn't they opt for the less suspicious route? You know, a route that the klan wouldn't try to "poke holes in"? No, instead they decided to use a black dude with the middle name "Hussein"... just shut up already with this ridiculous nonsense.
Apple pie can alter your health in a more directly negative manner than marijuana. All that butter and sugar is lethal in the quantities that the typical American consumes. I would suggest consulting science before you opened your mouth again around me.
And you missed the point- it was meant to be satire.
If this site was for mindless morons, you would fit in quite well, and hey, numbnutz, if you can't think of anything creative or even smartly critical to say then I would suggest keeping quiet so as not to be made a fool of again.
I'd love to see the research that shows that cinnamon mimics insulin- and really it's the high fructose corn syrup that's the big problem in adult onset diabetes. Fat metabolism really doesn't have much to do with type 2 DM, but nice shot there, cheryl, way to go in mimicking something you heard on tv.
I was really trying to prove a point more than report with medical accuracy- that if you can bs one group out of something they enjoy that is basically innocuous then you could go ahead and bs everyone out of something else that's innocuous. I chose Apple Pie because it's "as American as apple pie."
In all honesty you could make this argument about anything, as you can ascribe some ill effect to just about anything... Apple pie, fossil fuel, red meat, baseball, guns, CO2, H2O, lollipops, caffeine, tv, sex, cigarettes, whites, blacks, Mexicans, Arabs, Christians, Muslims, Jews, politicians, etc., etc., etc... all the way down to both cinnamon and marijuana.
Sorry if I left you off the list or included you on the list- no harm intended on any count. I am just trying to make the point that small minded is as small minded does- and I am sick of small minds and all that they have done for America.
If we could just warm up to the idea that we all are experiencing the human condition through slightly different eyes, then maybe we could open up to the ideas of true empathy and compassion for each other. If you quit knocking mine, then I'll quit knocking yours.
Poison ivy isn't illegal- though it should be. God must hate us- he put all these plants and poisons here to kill us. And that's not even scratching the surface, a dog bit me once- I think they should be illegal. My grandmother died from breast cancer- I think that breasts should also be made illegal- no more breasts = no more breast cancer. In fact I think we should challenge all of God's creations- Panda's are cute, but they bite- make them illegal, and then kill them all. I absolutely hate pickles- they should be illegal too- no real reason, I just HATE pickles. A friend of mine is allergic to peanuts. If she comes anywhere close to a peanut she could die- sorry, peanut, you suck and are now illegal. People kill more people than just about anything else- sorry, people, you also suck and are also now illegal... Wait a minute, God made all of this so in an effort to right all of these wrongs we should jut make God illegal... We could follow this ridiculous logic all the way to Hell- a place with no dogs, no breasts, no pandas, no pickles, no peanuts, no people, no God, and no poison ivy or marijuana. Fact is that you can spin it any way you want, but in the end we take the good with the bad because that's what God intended. Marijuana might never be legal, but that will never make it alright for you to defy your creator with this nonsense argument.
If the devil had the power of creation I could see your point, but the simple fact of the matter is that he doesn't- that's God's trump card.
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