antoinette_lasalle

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

citar ---

The framers did not define "natural born citizen." That is the problem.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

We have Indonesian Law that Documents Barry (Obama) could not have went to school in Indonesia unless he was a Citizen of Indonesia.

-------We need more than a law on the books. That is not proof that the law was enforced in his case.

We have all seen that documentation and Barry's own words he went to school in Indonesia.

--------Sure, he went to school. That doesn't mean the law was enforced in his case. We'd need testimony or documentation that his citizenship was verified.

We have documents Lolo Soetoro was an Official of the Indonesian Government.

---------Never heard of those, but all the more worry that the law was bent on his behalf.

This gives credence he followed the laws of Indonesia and adopted Barry.

----------No, silly!! It's precisely government officials who do NOT follow the law in a corrupt regime. Not proof at all.

So there must be papers showing the adoption in Indonesia.

----------If there are, great!

But just like Obama will not be transparent with his BC, neither will he with his adoption papers, Passport or School Records

-----------I'm all for getting this case into court; it just appears that the law is not on our side. There may indeed be NO WAY to get at him so that we can find out the truth.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

No, that's not what you said, carpenturr1. You said "a law." It's "a PROCESS based on a law," not "a law." Obviously, the United States can determine who are citizens and who are not, so you'd really be tying your hands if you insist that there can be no law regarding who is or is not a citizen.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

creeksneakers2 wrote: "It doesn't mention dual citizens because all who fall into one of those categories (usually A) are US citizens whether they have dual citizenship or not."

----
That's your interpretation; another side could be argued fairly easily -- that of a child having no legal obligation to a foreign nation.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Sorry, the divorce record doesn't prove he was adopted either.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

There is no documented proof that he was ever adopted by anyone. The school record proves nothing at all. To prove he was adopted, you need better evidence than that.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Carpenturr1 wrote: "Anytime the law is involved in any person's citizenship, he is a citizen by legislation, not nature."

-------

No, you've got that totally wrong. If a legal PROCESS -- that is, a process based on a law -- is used to make a person a citizen, that person is not a natural born citizen. If the citizenship law of a country states that persons born on its soil are citizens at birth, then such persons ARE natural born. However, dual citizenship introduces a question, and that question cannot be solved by looking at citizenship law IN ITS APPLICATION TO CITIZENSHIP AT BIRTH. Why? Because it is NOT in the statute that tells us who is a citizen at birth.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401

§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;
(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;
(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;
(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;
(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
(f) a person of unknown parentage found in the United States while under the age of five years, until shown, prior to his attaining the age of twenty-one years, not to have been born in the United States;
(g) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than five years, at least two of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years: Provided, That any periods of honorable service in the Armed Forces of the United States, or periods of employment with the United States Government or with an international organization as that term is defined in section 288 of title 22 by such citizen parent, or any periods during which such citizen parent is physically present abroad as the dependent unmarried son or daughter and a member of the household of a person
(A) honorably serving with the Armed Forces of the United States, or
(B) employed by the United States Government or an international organization as defined in section 288 of title 22, may be included in order to satisfy the physical-presence requirement of this paragraph. This proviso shall be applicable to persons born on or after December 24, 1952, to the same extent as if it had become effective in its present form on that date; and
(h) a person born before noon (Eastern Standard Time) May 24, 1934, outside the limits and jurisdiction of the United States of an alien father and a mother who is a citizen of the United States who, prior to the birth of such person, had resided in the United States.
Search this title:

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Yes, it's being questioned, and that is how ALL constitutional questions are settled! The only problem is people waited too long to do this. It should have been done much, much earlier. It's probably hopeless at this point. What I don't understand is why Wall Street would support him at all if his goal is to kill capitalism. That implies he conned all the people who voted for him; he certainly didn't con the rest of us.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Whether dual citizenship includes being a natural born citizen is the issue. It's not clear, I don't think, from the Supreme Court decisions that we have to work with.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

You are mistaken. If he was born in Hawaii, then he had both American and British citizenship, so he was a dual citizen at birth. Check out the State Department website, which talks about dual citizenship. It mentions it only slightly, but that proves it does exist. It happens when a person is born with two citizenships!

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Seems to still be an open question as to whether dual citizenship at birth can coexcist with being a natural born citizen.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

I have no reason to trust that the newspapers clips are authentic. Don't you get it? He caused people to distrust him well before the BC issue arose at all. He lied so many times in the campaign long before the BC issue was ever mentioned. People just find him to be untruthful. Thus, we have what we see today.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

creek,

See, this is the problem: The state won't say, "Yeah, he ordered a copy of his COLB and we mailed it to him." Thus, we have no way of knowing for sure that the document that was photographed is a real Hawaii COLB.

Obama could authorize Hawaii to reveal that information, but he has not done so.

While Nancy Pelosi swore in nominating documents sent to each of the 50 states that Biden and Obama were constitutionally eligible to hold the offices they were running for, we do not know on what basis she swore that. Did she look at a picture of a document, like many members of Congress have said they did? Congressmen and senators have written to their constituents and said that they verified he was a natural born citizen by looking at the picture of the COLB on the Web. There should have been a law to mandate a process for officially verifying candidates' eligibility. There is no such law, as we all know, and that's why we're here.

Obama *could* tell Hawaii to say, "Yes, we issued a COLB to him." I just don't understand why Obama won't do that. He doesn't even have to produce the BC, as far as I am concerned. I'll take Hawaii's word for it. But Hawaii will not say anything due to the privacy laws without Obama's specific request in writing.

I cannot explain why any person would not take 15 minutes out of his busy day and take care of this matter once and for all.

Something seems to be quite wrong here. Very wrong.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

creeksneakers,

Yes, IF he was really born in Hawaii.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

op_tomlinson,

I think we need to slow down the pace quite a bit. I don't think a sound-bite approach to your very excellent questions will work. I am far from an expert. I am just beginning my own serious study of that very subject.

But let's say I was going to answer your questions. What would I say?

1. The terms, 'democracy' and 'republic' and 'socialism' and communism' et al are tossed around; and yet how many Americans understand the truth which each represent.

They all represent the same truth.

2. Which form of government produces the freest of peoples?

The one in which the people feel the freest.

3. Which form of government creates the strongest fortification against tyranny? We realize, of course, that tyranny can blossom (and does) from all forms of government. But what form of government will stave off tyranny best and longest?

They all tend toward tyranny, as you observe, and I am not sure that any of them do it better than any other.

4. And finally what form of government is guaranteed by law in the United States and upon what law and principle is that form of government guaranteed?

Democratic republican government is established by the U.S. Constitution, I believe.

5. What are the nation's source documents and from what paradigm do they spring?

The writing of the Creator upon the human heart, as Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

They saved our butts, that's why.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Nancy Pelosi is the person who swore to all the states one by one that Biden and Obama were constitutionally eligible. Ask her.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Read "The Federalist Papers."

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

And what other Westerners would be greeting the king???

Btw, I am no supporter of Obama.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

LOL. Because they just got off a plane together, birdbrain.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

snelson,

Faulk admitted to his own wrongful actions. He's not entitled to question his superiors. He's a jerk for playing the office game of listening to snippets. He should be punished for misusing data.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Those were Americans, silly one.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

scyrier,

I believe those were Americans! David Axelrod was the tall guy with the dark hair.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

http://blogs.tnr.com/tnr/blogs/the_spine/archive/2009/06/03/obama-a-bit-squishy-in-ridyadh.aspx

Obama: A Bit Squishy in Ridyadh

I suspect that President Obama received nothing from Saudi Arabia's King Abdullah but a medal and Arab coffee with cardamom. At least that's how the monarch's advisers took pains to make it seem. Apparently, the American visitor wanted a tiny gesture to show to Bibi Netanyahu. The most often cited was that perhaps the Saudi would open an "interest section" in Tel Aviv. It didn't go.

Or, as a Reuters dispatch from the kingdom reported, "A Saudi adviser said it was 'completely unrealistic' to expect any concession from Riyadh, at least until Israel stopped all settlement construction and accepted the Arab peace plan."

The mickey finn in the Arab peace plan is, of course, that the Palestinian refugees, now into their fourth generation, be resettled in Israel. Yup, that's a peace plan, alright. Not, to be sure, all five million of them, which is how U.N.R.W.A counts them.

So what did the president say about all this? Well, he was a bit squishy, not really demanding as he was to the Israelis. But he did make an important point, at least to the BBC: "I think we have not seen a lot of potential gestures from other Arab states, or from the Palestinians, that might deal with some of the Israeli concerns." What would a potential gesture look like?

Perhaps Obama would be satisfied if Netanyahu offered some "potential gestures."

Posted: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 9:17 PM

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

There should be a probationary period for presidents during which the people can throw him out if he has been found to be a liar, a cheat, and a fraud.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

When the inmates began to run the asylum, we got the education system we have today. The dumbing down of America was treason; the fruit is the Resident of the United States.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

If you would get out of people's faces, there would be no violence against you. People have a right to discriminate against perverts. Go back in the closet, will you? And take all the other perverts with you.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

I think you need to work on clarifying your meaning and writing in a more accessible style.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

ricardo,

Don't hold your breath...

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

We need to make English the national language.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

We need a leader....

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

You're mistaken jamesfclements,

If he was born in Kenya, she was too young to pass citizenship to him. Furthermore, no official verification of his eligibility has occurred. None. There is no law mandating it. Support H.R. 1503.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Interesting, but most of this stuff ends up in landfill.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Great idea: Get a grant and do it privately. Make mucho bucks.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

The person who verified he was eligible was Nancy Pelosi, who swore to each of the 50 states that he was qualified under the Constitution.

She needs to be asked what documentation that he presented to her did she use to come to her conclusion that he was a NBC.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

The person who verified he was eligible was Nancy Pelosi, who swore to each of the 50 states that he was qualified under the Constitution.

She needs to be asked what documentation that he presented to her did she use to come to her conclusion that he was a NBC.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

The person who verified he was eligible was Nancy Pelosi, who swore to each of the 50 states that he was qualified under the Constitution.

She needs to be asked what documentation that he presented to her did she use to come to her conclusion that he was a NBC.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Right. Waterboarding is not at all torture. Harsh? Yes. Torture? No.

--------

Another subject: The person who verified he was eligible was Nancy Pelosi, who swore to each of the 50 states that he was qualified under the Constitution.

She needs to be asked what documentation that he presented to her did she use to come to her conclusion that he was a NBC.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

The person who verified he was eligible was Nancy Pelosi, who swore to each of the 50 states that he was qualified under the Constitution.

She needs to be asked what documentation that he presented to her did she use to come to her conclusion that he was a NBC.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

The person who verified he was eligible was Nancy Pelosi, who swore to each of the 50 states that he was qualified under the Constitution.

She needs to be asked what documentation that he presented to her did she use to come to her conclusion that he was a NBC.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

The person who verified he was eligible was Nancy Pelosi, who swore to each of the 50 states that he was qualified under the Constitution.

She needs to be asked what documentation that he presented to her did she use to come to her conclusion that he was a NBC.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

The person who verified he was eligible was Nancy Pelosi, who swore to each of the 50 states that he was qualified under the Constitution.

She needs to be asked what documentation that he presented to her did she use to come to her conclusion that he was a NBC.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

One of the chief problems, in my view, is that our federal legislators make a career out of being a senator or representative. Without them, none of what happened could have happened. Legislators need to be limited to a specific number of years of service and no more.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

This is a great idea, but it's something that would need to be enacted by the Congress. Contact your senators/representatives about it.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

I will vote FOR deciding to "unite as One to define which principles we wish to truly stand for above all others" in a new Constitution.

But I'll tell you something you already know: If we do it one man/woman = one vote, we will get nowhere, which is precisely where we are now.

We truly have a mess in the U.S.

There's a lot to be said for benign oligarchies, in my opinion. That's how we got here, right?

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

I agree, with the exception of your last point. English should be our national language. Not knowing English is a huge problem already. It's such a shame; immigrants in most of the last century simply learned English and functioned in that language as well as their native language.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Newcomers should be strongly encouraged to learn English. I certainly don't want to spend money on projects that work against that goal. In fact, I think we should by law establish English as the national language.

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Copy this and paste it into your web browser address bar:

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

--

It's the current law and tells you who is a citizen at birth. Then look at the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution and see that there are two kinds of citizen and two kinds only: born and naturalized.

-------
I agree with those of you who would like better documentation, though, but it's not very likely that Hawaii has been complicit in some massive fraud. I mean, would *you* risk your freedom for that guy and go to prison for the rest of your life if caught? Come on!

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

Well, what ARE they for?

antoinette_lasalle 9 months ago

danmcmains,

Because when you're born in the U.S. that's enough to be a natural-born citizen. There is no truth to the myth that both parents or even one parent has to be a U.S. citizen. See http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html.

Categories

User Activity Stream

Comments Posted