jwelborn3434

jwelborn3434 7 months ago

My point is that I WANT very little (if any) involvement by the government in any aspect of my life.

"To my knowledge, OUR government never has and never will drag those who disagree with them off to "reeducation camps"." You might want to look back at WWII. The detention camps that Americans of Japanese descent were sent came awfully close.

The totalitarian ideology programed into the German people that led to WWII was started by the national socialist (aka NAZI) party. They took control promising change, expanded the power of the national government, and eventually delivered a reign of terror that left scars on the entire world.

America's version of the "national socialist" party has now taken power and is seeking to expand the powers of the federal government, and the president in particular. Anyone who has studied history should be terrified by this!

Will no one wake in time? Will you realize what has happened only when you are looking back on atrocities you have committed in the name of the charismatic leader?

jwelborn3434 7 months ago

I'm aware of how much of my information is in the public domain and it doesn't really bother me. This bill concentrates too much power and access in the Executive branch of the federal government.

To my knowledge, neither my neighbors nor any insurance company have ever dragged those who disagreed with them off to "reeducation camps." National governments have.

jwelborn3434 7 months ago

...and remember in a very peaceful and understanding way, "Big Brother is WATCHING you"

jwelborn3434 8 months ago

Zero187, I can only repeat what I have said in other threads. I believe that so many people stick with the eligibility issue rather than "try and work with what we've got" because they see it as our nation's only chance.

If Obama were to be declared ineligible, then everything he has put into effect would be null and void. If the orders and appointments are allowed to remain in effect, then there is very little hope of salvaging our nation.

I can agree that neither bush was a great president. I believe Senator McCain was a poor choice also, but he might not have done irreparable harm. Obama however has already shown that he will not allow the nation to survive his term in office. His actions so far show that he will not be happy until this country is another bankrupt, socialist / fascist ruin.

jwelborn3434 8 months ago

Does anyone else find it interesting that the information on this page has been changed in the last 2 weeks?

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

When I saved that link, it stated that "certification of live birth" was not accepted as proof native Hawaiian status without verification from other sources. You can find the original wording quoted in other threads.

jwelborn3434 8 months ago

careysub,
I agree that your assertion goes well beyond what was actually said. The only thing actually verified by Dr. Fukino is that Hawaii has a birth certificate on file. Other state officials have interpreted what Dr. Fukino said to mean more, but it was not actually said.

You cannot simply claim that the statement: “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures." is semantically equal to "I personally certify that all the data on Sen. Obama's birth certificate has been verified and that it matches in all details the document published by Sen Obama's campaign.

The latter statement may very well be what Dr. Fukino meant, but it is not what was said.

It does not good to attack supposition and assumption with supposition and assumption of your own.

jwelborn3434 8 months ago

Twitchy,

I see what you are saying about English common law. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a U.S. court still have to rule on whether or not the "natural born subject" portion is applicable to the 0"natural born citizen" provision? I agree that if the Ark case is used as a precedent, that is almost certainly the way the court would rule. However, unless I misread, no actual ruling on that specific issue has been made yet, merely a discussion of legal history.

jwelborn3434 8 months ago

Twitchy,

After following your link and reading the case, I have a question. What determines who are "born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the king's dominions?" Does a declared state of war have to exist, or would simply being within the borders of a nation illegally suffice? Not saying it is relevant to the Obama case but I would like to know what source material you have. It could make a big difference in modern issues with illegal aliens.

jwelborn3434 8 months ago

Twitchy,

I missed a link somewhere. Where was your source for the English common law used in the Wong Kim Ark case?

jwelborn3434 8 months ago

Twitchy,

You may be right, I'll be satisfied if the court even reviews the available records though.

jwelborn3434 8 months ago

Twitchy,

HIPAA does not prevent hospital records from release in response to a subpoena. Lets see if any records are examined in the pending litigation.

As to the cases against the FEC and the Democratic party, the issue in question is different. You have to admit that both should have checked the qualifications of the candidates. Even if the published documents are true and correct, if they were not looked at by election officials prior to the election then a mistake was made. We know issues with the process exist since Roger Calero was allowed on the ballot in may states, even though he is admittedly not a natural born citizen.

The cases against the FEC and the Democratic party rest not on Obama's citizen ship status, but whether anyone actually bothered to check.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Twitchy,

As I said before, the "certificate" will also include the specific location of birth (hospital or home) and the source of the information listed. Corroboration may then be obtained from additional sources (hospital records or witness statements for a home birth)

You have not mentioned the names of those who conducted the vetting. How have you confirmed that it occurred?

Please do not tell me "factcheck.org" they are not representatives of the government. If they were the only ones to lay hands on actual documents, then no formal vetting was done.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

If the deadline (Monday 6-29-09)for answer by the the defense is met in Kerchner v. Obama the issue may be settled very soon.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Twitchy,

""Most people, if asked if they are legally qualified for their job, would reply "What are you talking about? I already showed my employer my drivers license and Social Security card. Who the hell are you?""

1. The American people, as a whole, are the employers of the president.

2. Can you name me any elected or appointed federal official who has claimed to have reviewed all appropriate documents to establish Obama's citizenship status? Everyone assumes that he must have been vetted prior to being place on the primary ballot and/or before his party nomination. However, no one from the Democratic party of the federal election commission has admitted to actually doing the vetting.

To my knowledge, the only information disclosed by even a state official is that there is a "certificate of live birth" (aka birth certificate) on file with the state of Hawaii. No mention was made of the contents of that document.

Can we really afford to make assumptions on this? Big mistakes can and have happened because everyone assumes someone else must done the proper verification.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Twitchy,

I did not say there was any hard evidence. The only evidence would be the documents that have been subpoenaed but were never produced.

The courts mad rulings on the issue of standing in responce to motion to dismiss for lack of standing by Obama's attorneys. Therefore, he or his attorneys did choose that mode of response to the allegations.

I'm in law enforcement. If I walk up to someone on the street and say "We have had a lot of robberies in the area. Have you seen anything?" and that person replies "I don't have to answer your questions." it makes me suspicious. The person would be right that I could not compel them to answer questions. However, the response is an overreaction to the nature of the question.

tIf asked if they are legally qualified for there job, most people would reply "Of course I am, and I can prove it" not "you don't have the right to ask me that."

So, you are right that I have nothing but gut feeling to go on at this point. However, it is a gut instinct based on a decade of training and experience.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Twitchy,

At first I did not see much evidence to indicate that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii. The fact that his attorneys have refused to produce any documents requested in any of the many court cases filed raised my level of suspicion.

Telling any citizen that he/she does not have legal standing to demand proof the president's eligibility is a bad political decision, as it alienates people. Do you like the idea that you have been deemed to have no standing to challenge the qualifications of your elected representatives? That a man hoping to have a second term in office will alienate voters rather than submit copies of his documents into evidence gives the appearance that he has something to hide.

You have to admit that Obama ran a very effective campaign. I can't believe that he simply failed realize how bad this legal approach would look.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Got it. This is the spout pretty nothings and refuse to look at any facts thread.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Wonderfully lofty goal but look at the reality of the proposal. It further concentrates power in the executive branch. Allow president to become another word for emperor and we will never have peace.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Twitchy,

The question the "certification" does not answer, that the "certificate" would, is whether the birth was recorded at a hospital. If not, Hawaiian law allows for "unattended" births to be recorded based on the statement of "any person having knowledge of the birth." (HRS 338-6)

If the original "certificate of live birth" (aka birth certificate) was based entirely on the statement of one person who claimed to be a witness, then the document is only as credible as that person. Even you have to admit that one witness statement, with no corroboration, is a poor standard of proof. Any infant, whose family can find one apparently credible person to lie for them, can be certified as Hawaiian born.

If the "certificate of live birth" was completed at the hospital where birth occurred, then it will match up with the hospital's patient records and confirm the facts of the birth beyond a reasonable doubt.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

bre2002,

1) The people traveling outside the U.S. for medical treatment are paying cash, not participating in nationalized health care.

2) A large part of the reason our medical care has fallen to its current position in the world is the HMO. If you will recall, HMO was also a politician proposed system to provide "affordable health care to all."

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

"People in this country are dying left and right of preventable diseases that on one dies of in Canada, Europe, Australia, or any other civilized nation that can afford to provide for its people." What diseases are you speaking of?

"They pay a fraction of what we do." The tax rates in the countries you mentioned are 75% or more. How is that paying less?

"For most of us ordinary people, the government is what educates our children." IF you are not checking everything that public schools teach your children and supplementing and correcting as needed, then your children will likely spend their lives flipping hamburgers.

"The government is in charge of making the laws and enforcing them." Have you read some of the stupid and nearly incomprehensible laws on the books?"

"The government is in charge of defending our borders and fighting our wars overseas." This works best when goverment tells the military where to go, then gets out of the way and lets them decide HOW to do the job."

"The government protects us from crime and fire. Yes, those cops and fire fighters -- guess who they work for?" Volunteer fire departments are generally more efficient then municipal or county agencies. Law enforcement tends to be better funded and trained in smaller cities than larger. State agencies have many problems. I cannot say that federal law enforcement does much good at all.

"No one else stops or punishes murderers, rapists, and thieves, or white collar criminals." You are right, and that needs to change. People need to take more responsibility for their own safety.

"The government builds our roads and bridges." ...and they are ALWAYS under construction because construction companies spend billions in campaign contributions too keep it that way.

"The government protects us from consumer fraud, dangerous foods and drugs, and disease epidemics." This too has been compromised by large campaign donations and likely other bribes.

"The governments (of our country and others) stopped Hitler from taking over the world." Citizens of the U.S. were going to other countries to enlist long before our congress declared war. I do not believe that any members of congress quit to go enlist.

"SSI and Medicare in one act eliminated the poverty that faced nearly all of us when we retired before they were enacted." No. SSI and Medicare gave money to those who failed to save for retirement by robbing others of the money they should be saving. Both systems are going bankrupt, while private pension funds survive.

"Good quality health care is a human right. We are all entitled to it as human beings." No one is ENTITLED to anything! Everything has a price that someone pays. Even the freedoms we enjoy in this country were bought, with blood.

If you don't want to deal with health insurance companies, then save up a medical fun and pay cash! Many doctors will give a discount rate to cash customers since they can avoid filling out insurance claim forms.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Twitchy, I can't speak for anyone else but I do not see enough concrete evidence to make a determination one way or the other. So far, no court has actually examined any of the documents in question. I believe that if the facts were thoroughly examined then the decision of the court would be accepted. The cases completed so far have not satisfied anyone because no document discovery has ever been conducted. The cases were dismissed for "lack of standing" without any examination of documents. Not even the document posted by factcheck.org has ever been presented to a court.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Twitchy, Obama rightly denounced the deficit spending of the previous administration and described the terrible consequences. He then participated in the drafting of a federal budget that multiplied the deficit spending. The damage must, therefore, be willfully done.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Can we just go back to no federally funded loans for anyone please?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Not created. Deepened. Unemployment numbers by themselves tell a misleading story. Look also at inflation, national debt, tax rates, and rates of industrial growth.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Not sure how I typed "tenancy" rather than "tendency". It would be nice to be able to go back and edit typos.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Twitchy, you may have a point. I'm sure there is a certain tenancy to want to believe that no one born in our nation would be willing to willfully destroy it, as Obama rapidly doing. However, many members of congress, who are unquestionably natural born citizens, are aiding in the destruction. The second factor should serve to counteract the first.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Who are these "average" people paying $13,000 per year for medical insurance? Before my wife and married, she paid for her own insurance without any employer contribution. She paid $100 dollars per month. Less than one tenth of your number.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Exactly. Money buys good health care everywhere. Tax funded programs provide second rate health care at best, because not enough people pay income tax, and much of what is paid in is wasted through inefficiency. The top 50 to 60% of earners only have so much to take.

Eventually the tax base will decrease further as people stop attempting to earn more. Once it gets to the point that you can gross $30,000 per year and keep it or gross $100,000 per year and be taxed back down to $30,000, why would anyone put in the extra effort to gross $100,000?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Faulty typing for sure. "We" should have been "who". I may have been mistaken in my interpretation of your intent. Without spoken emphasis it is sometimes hard to determine underlying emotional content. Some on this sight have made it clear that, to them, "rich" is a very dirty word.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Am I the only person on this sight we does not hate those who have made more money than I do?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Brianp, 1withtheforce got my point but it looks like you did not. What right do you or anyone else have to tell someone what they may and may not consider when hiring? If you own a company and only want to hire left handed people named Bob, it's your choice.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Here is some reality.

No conjecture needed. I have worked unpleasant minimum wage jobs. I have gone hungry to make sure a child was fed when there was not enough to go around. I did not resort to theft or robbery. I did not ask for welfare.

I submit to you that if you would victimize others rather than die with dignity, you are not as good a person as you believe you are.

Nuclear weapons are horribly destructive and I pray they will never be used again. However, one nuclear detonation will not wipe out most life on the planet as you claim. A large number of nuclear detonations MIGHT cause the cataclysm you predict, but that is back to conjecture.

The U.S. is far from the only country that possesses nuclear weapons. No matter what our country does, the possibility of nuclear conflict between other nations still exist.

Welfare states have always failed, going back at least as far as the Roman empire.

No conjecture. Just personal experiences, historical facts, and a response to your own personal observation.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I'm not sure it would be much different. Rosie O'Donnell proclaimed that all gun owners should be killed on national television. Some people are very open about their hostility.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

ls072456, I will speak to you directly because you seem willing to have an actual discussion without hostility.

My father is disabled. The "care" he has received from the VA is the main reason I oppose government regulation of health care. If I had been a nit older and wiser when his injury occurred, I would have paid for him to have proper treatment. Instead, he sought treatment via the "workers compensation" system and the VA.

The "treatment" he received aggravated a neck injury he suffered while in the army and he is now paralyzed. With hard work on his part, he may one day recover the ability to walk. Private hospital treatment would have been MUCH cheaper in both money and suffering.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I posted a thread on the same idea but specified revoking the federal power to borrow by constitutional amendment.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

ls072456, "they are entitled to their opinions, and if intelligently presented they should be considered."
We have our disagreements, but I very much respect you for that statement!

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

The term "birther" or "birfer", as you put it, is needlessly stereotypical and dismissive. Name calling does not help anyone's cause.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Have you written up a comprehensive paper on your study for publication? I would be interested in having a copy. The raw data backing your conclusions would be too lengthy to post here.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

You can go to the "all" link on the left side of the page, then click the "top rated" tab on the top right. This gives a list of all threads in descending order of votes posted.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I tend to agree that thousands of voted on one thread might make a bigger impression than a couple of dozen votes each on hundreds of threads.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

The detainees should NOT be given trials in U. S. courts. Those who engaged in hostilities toward our troops in foreign countries have never been tried under the criminal justice system. The should properly be handled by the military as prisoners of war, in accordance with all treaties signed by the U.S.

It is my understanding that the "enhanced interrogation techniques" were developed specifically because the do not meet the definition of torture given in any applicable treaty.

Interrogation under drugs would likely be more effective, but is prohibited.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

There are too many "legalization" threads to follow. Can we go forward with those already posted please?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I have a problem with the "means-test" idea. The only way to set up an equitable system is for everyone to pay the same price for the same service.

I am nowhere near "wealthy" but I do not resent those who have more than I do, or feel they need to be punished.

What sounds appealing about "we will give you what we think you need and charge you what we think you can afford?"

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Can anyone show me anything run by the federal government that works well?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Correct me if I am wrong but weren't members of congress originally paid a daily stipend only when in session? Elected offices that only call for part time service should not be treated as careers. They are a civic responsibility, like jury duty, and should be compensated in the same manner.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I need new glasses! "Angry" should have been "agree". I hate to misquote

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I don't know this Mr. Farah and therefore, cannot give him any credit or blame. What I have spoken out against here is the idea that asking questions about an elected official can get someone labeled as a "serious domestic danger." What ever happened to "I do not angry with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it?"

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

terry, I'm sorry. I left it unclear when I was objecting to the proposed legislation and when to the other arguments made by supporters of the legislation.

My main objection to the proposal, as written, is the potential for abuse. Granting such sweeping powers to one cabinet appointee is very dangerous. An unethical president could easily use these provisions to circumvent constitutional checks and balances.

If the proposal was the formation of a private research firm with the same goals, I would have no objection.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

My understanding is that failing to defend yourself is neither moral nor immoral. Failing to defend another, who is incapable of self-defense, is both immoral and a breach of your obligation to society.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I am too far behind to respond to all of what has been said. I will respond to the factual arguments rather than the emotional one because those reacting on an emotional level will not believe any evidence which conflicts with their emotional position.

Jezmercuri, You have some very valid points and some good solid data. I believe the statistic about children killed by gun violence is classified anyone under 18 as children, including teen gang members engaged in violent street crime.

I agree that to reduce violence and victimization we must address the root of the problem. However, I have a slightly different view than many here of where that root lies.

I do not see how one can say that removing the tools used to effect violence and victimization, will solve the problem. It will merely leave you with less efficient victimization.

To achieve any true prevention, you must act on the people who feel that they have the right to victimize others.

I see "zero tolerance" fighting policies as misguided and counterproductive because they only look at the fact that force was used. Why for was used is completely ignored. Intent is a key element in most major crimes for a reason. If we ignore intent and only see result, then a fatal car crash is the same as deliberate murder.

I see a lack of personal responsibility as a major reason crime is rampant in this county. I call it the "somebody aught to do something" mentality. People see violent crimes in progress and either walk away and call the police or, more often, just walk away and assume someone else will call the police. Almost no one attempts to help the victim!

The same applies to bullying. Adults see bullies assaulting other children and do nothing, They are afraid they will be seen as assaulting a child if they pull the bully off of his victim.

"Force is bad" is too simplistic a statement and leads to confusion. We need to spell out for our children when it is wrong to use force and why, when it is acceptable to use force and why, and when it is a moral obligation to use force and why.

For example: If you see a man beating a woman in a public place, what is the morally correct action to take? Do you leave the area and call for police while the beating continues? Do you pretend you saw nothing? DO you walk over and steal the woman's purse off of the ground? Or, do you take action to stop the beating, then call the police to insure the offender is properly punished?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

jennyclagett, Deadly force does not mean "just shoot" Nothing in law states that deadly force must be accomplished with a firearm. If you tell me what cases you are talking about, I would be better able to discuss them.

I DO NOT blame victims of bullying fro being unable to defend themselves. I do put some of the blame on parents who do not prepare their children to defend themselves verbally, physically and psychologically.

You are correct that weapons be taken away from their owners. This is issue should be addressed as part training to use any weapon. (Getting sprayed with one's own pepper spray would be painful and embarrassing)

Please research for yourself, the change in the violent crime rates in Britain and Australia in the year immediately following their national gun bans.

If a poor economy, etc. CAUSED crime, then all poor people would be committing crimes. That is not the case. Good people do not rob, rape, or murder,not matter how poor or hungry they get.

The National Firearms Act prohibits ownership of certain types of weapons based on mode of operation and caliber. Neither of those criteria has anything to do with mental illness or criminal history.

State law is not inadequate, it is under enforced. "Felony probation" is an oxymoron and should never be an actual sentence.

If "worked with the military" means that your were, or are, a member of one of the armed forces, then thank you for your service.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Not worth worrying about. Since the discussion in this thread has degenerated into childish name calling and advocating class warfare, it is probably better that my longer comments disappeared.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Am I the only one who's comments are failing to post to this thread?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

martycarbone, isn't it a rather large jump from coining and regulating the value of money to making mortgage loans?

Would private banks still exist to secure deposits since government banks would only make loans?

If not, do you propose that everyone have a home safe to store cash or are you suggesting a credit only system?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

please ignore the extra word "address" in my last post

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Take it a step further. Should there be a law saying that companies have to hire every qualified applicant, even if that company cannot afford another employee?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I think private companies aught to be able to base hiring on anything they want to. If the owner of a company does not want to pay someone to work for him/her beacuse that potential employee has a silly haircut, it is the owner's business. Why does anyone have a right to tell the owner of a business who they must give their money to?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I did not say disabled people. I pointed out that, under socialized medicine, someone can be able bodied and made a free choice not to ever work. That person would still be entitled to the same medical service as everyone else, at everyone Else's expense.

I am sorry you and your wife have medical problems but in 31 years of work you could not accumulate any savings or purchase any supplemental insurance?

Under socialized medicine, you and your wife would both likely be on a waiting list for your needed treatment. You would not have to pay for it, but you would have to hope you survive long enough to get to the top of the list. The wait can be as long as several years in counties that have socialized medicine now.

My problem with taxes is that the people proclaiming "taxes are the dues we pay to live in a democracy" aren't paying any.

Allow people to give to medical charities according to their own personal conscience. Tax funded social programs mean that someone else (congress) decides how much I am supposed to give to charity, even if they are cheating of their own contribution (and they are). I am then told that if I don't hand over the amount of money demanded, I will be dragged from my homke at gun point. In Law enforcement, we call that aggravated robbery with a deadly weapon.

I am aware of Switzerland's compulsory military service and their restrictive immigration policy.

The slavery comment was pointlessly inflammatory and based on a false premise. Even if you ignore the immorality of slaverry, employees cost companies less than slaves would.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Search and seizure does not apply to job related drug screenings because they are voluntary. You do not have to take the test if you choose not to work for that company. No one will hold you down and take a sample from you. You start telling people tomorrow that they have to submit to a drug test to enter your home. If they don't like it, they don't have to go in.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I see the difference between DWI and being stupid as follows:

A stupid person cannot help being born stupid and had no choice in the matter. I person who chooses to drive while intoxicated intentionally operates a vehicle while at a reduced level of ability. Intentionally imparment of the ability to drive by means other than intoxication is already chargeable under "reckless driving"

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

acampos_2001, I am very much in favor of conflict resolution and use deescalation techniques daily. My point is that some people will only participate in the conflict resolution process, if they are made aware that violent coercion would have more consequences than rewards.

The bill sounds great on the surface. However, I believe the that the "tools of violence" would be used to institute gun bans. Bans have lead to higher violent crime rates wherever used but are somehow politically popular.

I believe the "violence against animals" provisions would be used to eventually ban all forms of hunting and fishing. Many poor families depend on wild game for a significant portion of their diet.

The domestic violence and hate crime provision worry me because those we already have have created problems. State law address in every state that I know of already addresses these. Federal laws that act within the states tend to actually hinder enforcement do to conflicts between the state and federal laws.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

jennyclagett, I have been in law enforcement, in Texas, for the last decade and can assure you that no "just shoot" law exists. Texas law states that a person may use deadly force to protect Him/her self or another person from the imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury, or to prevent certain crimes during the nighttime.

Most law enforcement agencies have average emergency response times in excess of 2 minutes. Some far in excess. Two minutes is more than enough time for a murderer to have killed a victim and fled, even if that murderer is armed only with bare hands.

Any honest law enforcement officer will tell you that we cannot usually arrive in time to prevent a violent offense. We investigate afterward and arrest the offender. This does little to console the family of a dead victim and is only helpful if the courts ensure the guilty party does not re-offend.

I have the right to defend myself and others, if attacked. It would be hypocritical of me to tell some else that they do not have a right to defend themselves or their loved ones.

I have been around firearms my entire life. I have never shot or shot at a human being. My grandfather attended an elementary school where many of the children brought rifles to school daily. No one there went on a killing spree.

In England, I know of no mass shootings, but violent crimes involving guns, especially home invasion robbery, occur at a rate several times higher than before their firearms ban was enacted.

For Singapore I have no data.

In Japan, where guns a nearly impossible to obtain, there have been several mass murders and mass assaults by knife wielding suspects.

I have never seen a good person become homicidal upon contact with a firearm. I have seen those with a predatory mindset, injure and kill others with just about every sort of seemingly harmless item you can name. People can be violent. Inanimate objects cannot.

I have seen what happens when a caring person attempts to reason with the predator robbing them. The offender either kills or severely injures the caring person, then takes all their valuables and leaves laughing.

I have attended the funerals of officers killed simply because the killer thought he could get away with it. I have seen many suspects drop weapons and and submit to arrest without incident because they were faced enough officers to effectively respond to whatever level of violence the suspect initiated.

I say that violent people will avoid a fight they cannot win and look for weaker prey because I see it happen constantly.

I base my opinions on my daily observations rather than anyone's propaganda. On what personal observations are your statements based?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

ls072456, How is it equitable for a person, who uses no medical services other than routine well visits but earns a large income, to pay a large amount into the health care system while another, who uses medical services frequently but refuses to work, pays nothing?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Legalization would not prohibit your employer from using a drug test as a condition of employment. There are companies that regulate use of legal substances by employees now.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Verbal conflict resolution is a wonderful tool. It cannot be successful if it is the only tool.

Let me give you a hypothetical scenario:
For generations, everyone has been taught that violence is never acceptable, even in self defense. A small child, too young to understand his lessons, pushes another small child in a dispute over a toy. The child who has been pushed is confused and hurt and runs away crying and leaves the toy. As the boy who did the pushing gets older, her remembers that hitting got him what he wanted, repeats the previously successful action. No matter how much the bot is counseled, he clings to his personal experience that pushing others gets him what he wants.

How do you stop that boy from continuing to bully others without using any sort of force or physical coercion? Do you really believe he will ever accept the lesson of non-violence when violence continues to be profitable.

If that same boy had attempted to bully a child who had been trained in self defense, he might have gotten some bruises. Would he not be more inclined to accept the power of verbal conflict resolution, once he learned directly that bullying has consequences?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I see your point. I would just like to see some candidates who put values ahead of either party affiliation or personal ambitions.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

vhowell, retaliation was not what I proposed. I suggest having the tools to prevent loosing your eye in the first place.

Peace has immense power when it is based on choice. Being peaceful simply because you are too week cowardly to have any other option is not.

Peace should come from mutual respect rather than through supplication.

Ghandi was hardly passive. He fought and won a war using psychological, rather than physical, force. The mind is, and always has been, the only really dangerous weapon.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

hairlip, You are confusing your terminology sir. "Certificate of live birth" is the official name of a Hawaiian, long form, birth certificate.

However, the document that has been published on factcheck.org is a short form "Certification of live birth". The 2 names are very close, but they apply to completely separate documents. It is important to keep the terminology straight to properly communicate the difference. See the quote and link below.

"In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Would it not be preferable to build new parties and allow the existing ones to fade away? The reform or replace argument has been on my mind quite a bit lately.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

jezmercuri, Other than some record keeping and regulation of interstate commerce, the military is really all that the federal government should be spending money on. It is all the additional programs that are really none of their business anyway that I see as wasteful.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I can hear the cries now! "$100 buks a pack for weed! It was cheaper when it was illegal!" The tax man gets everyone eventually

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

jennyclagett, peace at any price was tried in Europe prior to World War II. It was known at "appeasement" and was unsuccessful at achieving peace. Instead, it allowed a vicious tyrant to concentrate on one victim nation at a time.

"if you are suggesting that students should bring guns to schools, or teachers, etc., then that's a recipe for disaster." --- how so? If you look at the statistics, violent crime has increased as gun control laws have become more stringent. Disaster was predicted when states began re-legalizing concealed carry of firearms. Instead, violent crime rates went down.

"people who mass murder seem to have absolutely no trouble getting their hands on automatic weapons" --- incorrect! Automatic weapons aka "machine guns" have been heavily regulated since 1935. They have been illegal to manufacture or import since the mid 1980's. None of the highly publicised mass shooting of the last several years has involved automatic weapons.

If access to weapons and crowd were all that mass murderers look for, then mass shootings would occur at gun shows. None ever has

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Mr. Rizzi, Hawaii has an official birth certificate. It is called a "certificate of live birth" and is a completely seperate document that the "certificatio of live birth which has been published.

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

"In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Sir, I have looked at both of the cases you list. In the first, the lack of standing is addresses. In the second, the judge makes an issue of the intentions of the petitioner.

In neither case is there any finding of fact as to the validity or existence of Obama's documents.

I have asked repeatedly that you point me to the evidence you believe to be available. You have replied that there is no need for you to do so because the burden of proof is on me, and that there is a presumption that you are correct.

I have named the evidence I would like to see (certificate of live birth) and you have acted as if it did not exist. I pointed out that the state of Hawaii publishes that it does exist. In response, you reference 2 cases in which no discovery of evidence was allowed to occur.

The criminal court equivalent would be claiming that someone was found "not guilty" because the judge ruled that he/she was not mentally competent to stand trial.

I would agree that this dialog has proved entirely fruitless, were it not for the fact that others may read it and conduct their own research. Perhaps one of them can direct me to some verifiable evidence.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I like the title but the methods have been proven ineffective. FDR's economic policies drove the counrty into the depths of the Great Depression. It took a World War to pull us out again. Why would we want to repeat that?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

One fallacy I see in the above arguments is the belief that there is any difference between the Democratic and Republican parties. It is like watching professional wrestling in the 80's. They yell and scream at one another in front of the cameras, then they all get together to split up your money at the end of the night.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

If welfare were cut off tomorrow, and its recipient were allowed to work or starve, they would find work. I see "now hiring" signs everywhere in Houston. Also, they would quickly displace illegals in all those jobs that Americans supposedly won't do.

I have trouble with your assertion that war caused the crisis in the economy. War was the only thing that pulled this country out of the last depression.

"Rather than opening my door to gun bearing people looking for means of existence, I am willing [if grudgingly] able to sacrafice"--
Giving up your money to someone to keep someone from robbing you at gun point still makes you a robbery victim. Just be ready to defend your home. Think of it as a public service. If all those who are willing to victimize others are killed in the attempt, we are left with a better society overall. Good people do not become robbers, no matter how poor they are.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I agree that peace is a wonderful thing. However, teaching our children that it is never acceptable to use violence even in response to violent attack created guarantied victims.

Have you not notice that mass shooting tend to occur in "zero tolerance for weapons" areas? Predators will always seek out the prey least able to defend itself.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Thank you for the clarification

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I agree with most of your points. However, my point is that repeating and expanding upon the unsuccessful actions of the past (social security and welfare) cannot possibly help.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

One other thing, the government does not provide anything to anyone. The taxes and fees taken from the people pay for all government projects. What out government does is facilitate the people buying things for themselves. It is sort of like giving your child money to buy you a birthday present with. You still bought it

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Please elaborate. Are you implying that my opinions are narcissistic and delusional or that martial arts programs teach narcissistic and delusional attitudes?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

So the birth certificate thing is crazy but a global conspiracy against marijuana makes sense? This gets stranger by the day

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I do not want there to be 2 different forms. The state of Hawaii says that there are 2 different forms.

Passport- as a senator he would have been issued a passport without the normal identification review.

Form documenting birth- you used the correct word "seemingly". I have no proof that the "certification of live birth" is invalid but have no proof that it is valid either. Has any federal official made a sworn statement that the document was reviewed and found valid? All I have seen are statements from reporters. I too would like to believe that someone must have checked prior to the election, but have not heard of anyone actually admitting to having done so. All we have is the presumption that "someone must have"

Hawaiian officials stated that there is an official "certificate" on file. Never was it stated that the file copy matched the scans published online.

Does it not strike you as strange that the published "certification of live birth" has not been introduced as evidence in any of the cases so far taken to court?

The only legal argument that has been made by Obama's attorneys so far is that no citizen has standing to challenge eligibility.

If the evidence is truly so clear as you believe, why fight for over a year to avoid presenting it in any official proceeding?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Several "legalize marijuana" threads and "single payer healthcare" threads are open. I have posted in several and I am still receiving updates when new posts are entered

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I have tried to be the bigger person in all the emotionally charged arguments, but this once I cannot resist.

....and this little piggy went "wemo, wemo, wemo" all the way home!

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

sarah108, Again, there is a difference between legalizing marijuana and prohibiting drug testing as a hiring standard

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Wait, wait, wait. Legalize marijuana if you want but can we please all agree to stop using "LOL", especially in spoken conversations?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

webbcattt, I agree with some of what you said. However, "we can't have nice things" because the average person cannot afford them due to nearly half of their income going to taxes of one form or another.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

As for Mr. Berg, I'm not inclined to believe any statement he makes unless supported by evidence either.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I'm not sure why I am having so much difficulty making myself understood.

I think in terms of criminal cases. I could not go before a jury and swear that I have seen conclusive proof of eligibility.

You seem to believe that in 1961, the state of Hawaii only had one birth record form, the "certification of live birth" rather than the 2 they have now. If you can provide some documentation of that, then it makes the situation much different.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

No sir. I am saying that there are 2 different forms. The "certificate of live birth" is supposed to be filled out at the time of birth by either the hospital or parent. If this is not done, then an agent of the department of health completes a "certificate" based on the statements of someone "having knowledge of the birth."

The "certification of live birth" is a short form that is generated based on the information on the "certificate of live birth" but does not include all of the information.

The information I am interested in seeing is not on the "certification of live birth" but IS on the "certificate of live birth". As you pointed out, Hawaiian officials have stated that the "certificate of live birth" exists and is on file. However the "certificate" has not been published, only the "certification" has.

I have stated that, when I applied for my job, I was required to prove my eligibility, my employer was not required to disprove it. I'm certain that your employer is much the same way. I have said that I cannot prove that Obama is ineligible to hold office and have no intention of doing so. What I'm curious about is why a presidential candidate should be presumed eligible until proven otherwise. No other employer uses that standard. Would you hire an accountant if you asked him/her about his/her accounting degree and his/her response was "you can't prove I don't have one" or "several prominent people have stated that my degree exists" of if you where given a sworn statement that he/she received a degree but not specifying the college or date?

Apply the same standards to all. Any elected official should be able to provide proof of eligibility that can be corroborated.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Wemo.mike, and what condition causes the unwillingness to give a direct answer to a direct question?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

sounds like we are on pretty much the same page.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I had to provide my employed with a birth certificate, state ID, my fingerprints, my high school and college transcripts, character references, a psychological evaluation, a drug test, and a polygraph exam.

I am not asking for nearly so much.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

The "certificate" rather than the "certification" should include the hospital or residence where birth was stated to have occurred as well as who gave the information upon which the "certificate" was based.

If a home birth is indicated on the "certificate" it would not be proof that the document was false. However, it would disagree with Obama Jr's published statements.

If the "certificate" indicated a hospital birth, it could be compared to the hospital records for confirmation.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I thought I made it clear above. The uncertainty I have is based on the fact that the "certification of live birth" displayed does not indicate whether it was completed at a hospital at the time of birth, or afterward based on the statement of someone claiming to have witnesses the birth.

Here is a hypothetical scenario. Obama Sr. and his young, pregnant bride, make quick trip to Kenya to see Obama sr.'s family. During the trip, Obama Jr. is unexpectedly born slightly early. When the couple returns to Honolulu, the maternal grandmother wishes her grandson to have the benefits of Hawaiian birth. She contacts a court clerk and states that she witnesses the home birth of the child.

I have no proof that the above scenario occurred. What exactly, in the published evidence proves it did not?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

miles, enlighten me. Who, other than yourself mentioned race? Or, are you suffering under the delusion that all disagreements are caused by racial issues?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

juxtapostle, If you will notice, I take issue with many current prescription drugs as well. Many doctors have become a legalized version of street dealers.

I do not take prescription pain killers or any of the prescription arthritis drugs for my symptoms either. I hurt when I wake up, then I put it out of my mind. Pain is easier to control than the mental impairment those drugs can cause.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I did not intend to indicate anything about letting the administration fail. I was suggesting that the administration stop attempting to protect private companies from the consequences of their own failures.

We need to learn from the depression to avoid repeating it. Increased taxes and tax payer funded charity, drove the county further into depression. Why are we attempting to repeat a failed approach?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

All of the current smoking laws would be expanded to cover marijuana as well as tobacco, correct?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I have no problem with grassroots initiatives. I am pointing out that they need to be accomplished by a host of individuals, rather than a homogenized crowd. When people begin to think of them selves as merely an anonymous part of the group, it lends itself irresponsibility through a reduced fear of consequences.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I've seen people robbed and beaten for a can of beer or one "blunt". Legalization may reduce some kinds of crime but it won't make people into angels.

I agree that if people want drugs, they will get them. I just dislike the dishonesty of creating a fictitious medical need. IF you want to get a buzz, just admit to it.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

correction -- (response)

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Sam, Why are you attempting to make this a racial issue? The most vocal Obama skeptics I know are black. My own heritage is so mixed I'll never sort it all out. Get over race baiting and look at REAL issue. "You're a racist" is not the correct responce to every argument.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I must have missed something. When did race come into this issue?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Is072456, Where are you getting your numbers? The private health insurance my wife had, before we married earlier this year, cost about $100 per month.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I never said I apposed legalization. My assertion is that ANY sort of intoxicated driving should be a felony on the first offense. Causing the death or dismemberment of another do to intoxicated driving should be a capitol offense. Let people do what they want, so long as they are held accountable is they injure others in the process.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I could not sleep so I went back through the folder full of links I had compiled. I did not have them handy yesterday evening and had planned to go to sleep early.

I do not believe there were computer generated forms in 1960 but I do believe the "certificate" and "certification" were 2 separate forms.

I am not an attorney, and will admit that I took the Department of State's interpretation as accurate.

I have no idea where Ms. Dunham was when she gave birth and do not claim to know. I not making a claim. I am only pointing out that I have not seen proof of the claims of others. I have not seen Ms. Dunham's school records and was not aware that they had been published. Can you direct me to them, please?

My understanding is that the "certification" has always been the short form of the "certificate". The "certification" indicates birth in Honolulu but does not indicate whether this information was gathered at a hospital at the time of birth or later based on a "witness" statement.

As to the "certificate" issued to those born outside Hawaii to Hawaiian parents, I mention that to address the another theory being circulated; that the birth location on the published "certification" has been altered. This is much less likely in my opinion, but not impossible.

It is entirely possible that all the information on the published "certification" is true and correct. It is also possible that it is based on a false "witness" statement. There are other, less likely, possibilities. So far I see room for reasonable doubt either way.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

sabylriverwish, the option I see is to back off and let those who cannot succeed on their own fall. The county as a whole is strung out on debt. Like any other addiction, trying to taper off only extends the suffering. Lets just go through the kicking and screaming of withdrawal now and start over with clear minds.

I do not believe that the problem is all the current administrations fault. However, they wanted the job and got it so they are responsible for fixing the problem if its is unpleasant.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

evan, I will look for that book, but base my opinions mainly on my own observations.

I have witnessed large, diverse crowds, made up of people who are calm, peaceful, and reasonable as individual, degenerate into destructive mobs in a matter of minutes.

Group think, and herd mentality can be very dangerous. Most destructive rioters can't remember afterward why they did what they did, they just "went along with the crowd." Excited emotions are contagious and overwhelm rational thought.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Teaching "non-violence" creates helpless victims. We would get better progress by teaching responsible and controlled application of force.

Here is the model I use in my personal life. Please tell me why we could not apply it to foreign policy:

I express my opinions and offer advise when invited but I do not force anyone to agree with me. I help others when I see that it is wanted and useful. When my help receives ingratitude, resentment, or entitlement in response, I withdraw it.

While doing all of the above, I also train my body and mind in the effective use of force. If I am attacked, I am prepared to effectively use whatever level of force is necessary to stop that attack. Physical and mental training create noticeable changes in a person. Those who seek to victimize others see these signs and stay away.

Because I am prepared to use precisely controlled violence in my own defense, I do not get attacked in the first place.

Bringing martial arts training into the curriculum in public schools would be a good start.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html

Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

sarahraek, How are they successful? The wait at the Houston VA emergency room in 2 to 3 times as long as that at private hospitals. Also, the bureaucracy is so convoluted that, when mistakes are made, no one can get any answers on how to correct it. My father has enlisted the help of his congressman's office in his case and even they can't get straight answer to their questions.

Medicare and Medicaid are already being bankrupted by abuse.

Sprinklv, I don't see that mandatory insurance is the only option. There is no need government control of health care. Before we were married, my wife had a private, non employer funded, HSA plan that cost less than $100 per month. In some markets the rates go as low as $50 per month. Most people spend more than that on fast food.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I've had to scrape too many people off the pavement thanks to drunks and drug users to have to prove anything. Driving with any sort of depressant in your system, legal or illegal, will eventually cause a wreck. I don't care what you do, but stay home to do it!

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I think it likely that Al Gore sat around with some friends, really drunk, one night and said "I bet you I can convince people that carbon is going to kill everyone!" Those friends laughed an said "you're on". Now they have lost their money and their faith in people

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

It might be easier to investigate the human trafficking rings that way

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Not everyone gets sarcasm and satire. Calm down folks, he is poking fun at the more radical socialists/ fascists around here. Read his other posts and you'll get it.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

"Medical marijuana" is a bad joke, but then again so are the prescription tranquilizers. People need to get off the "better living through psycho-pharmacology" kick and just get over it.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Look around a bit. There is a reason so many people from countried with socialized medicine come to the U.S. for treatment

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

you could always watch the video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UreJZMY_2IY

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

And so it begins! already, people are advocating jailing or killing all those who disagree with the political regime. The fact that they call those they oppress fascist while they themselves work to crush any independent thought just makes it that much worse.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Are you saying only that no one has died of an overdose of marijuana? I have witnessed traffic accident deaths caused by drivers using marijuana

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

George Orwell's 1984. Enough said if you are literate

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Please call this what it is, socialized medicine. I do not believe that the majority, or anyone who has seen the effects of such systems in other countries, would want this.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

As a wise man once said, and I have witnessed many times, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups!"

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

read thins link for the difference please

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Again try: http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

notice how my link has that little .gov in it?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

try this link instead:
http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

'Certification" and "certificate" are 2 different things

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

wasn't this already promised during the presidential campaign?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Found the out of state clause

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.htm

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Ma'am Canadians come to the U.S. for medical care they cannot get, or have to wait excessively for at home, every day. Many in Europe do as well, if they can afford the trip, or can get a job that will send them here.

Before you try to force us all to dump Billions into socialized health care, please spend a couple of thousand to go and talk, first hand, to people who live with it.

As for the rest of it: "Would you rather that the fire, police,clean water and education only be available to those able to pay for it on their own?"

Someone pays for those services now. Government run does not mean free. Those who don't pay taxes to support the agencies you mentioned are leeching off of the ones who do.
One of these days, hard working people will get sick of waiting for help when a real crime happens because someone, who has never paid a dime into the system, tied up all the only available police unit by calling 911 about the service at the drive-through window.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

snelsen and Gretchen Harwood, the image you both refer to is a "certification" not a "certificate"

"In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Your wording is incorrect. A "certificate of live birth" is a birth certificate in Hawaii. However, what has been displayed on the internet is a "certification of live birth" which is a shorter, computer printed, form.

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I'm curious about this term "birther". Wouldn't allying said term to a male imply a biological impossibility?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Am I missing something, or do you believe one of the above sources has incorrect information? Does Lexis-Nexis conflict with the Department of State website?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

As to the difference between the 2 types of birth documents

http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I could not get confirmation that the certification of live birth could be based on a foreign birth certificate. I may have misread that. However, it can be prepare based solely on a statement by someone claiming to have knowledge of the birth

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0006.htm

§338-6 Local agent to prepare birth certificate. (a) If neither parent of the newborn child whose birth is unattended as provided in section 338-5 is able to prepare a birth certificate, the local agent of the department of health shall secure the necessary information from any person having knowledge of the birth and prepare and file the certificate.

(b) The department shall prescribe the time within which a supplementary report furnishing information omitted on the original certificate may be returned for the purpose of completing the certificate. Certificates of birth completed by a supplementary report shall not be considered as “delayed” or “altered.” [L 1949, c 327, §10; RL 1955, §57-9; am L Sp 1959 2d, c 1, §19; HRS §338-6]

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

According to http://travel.state.gov/law/info/info_609.html
Birth Abroad to One Citizen and One Alien Parent in Wedlock: A child born abroad to one U.S. citizen parent and one alien parent acquires U.S. citizenship at birth under Section 301(g) INA provided the citizen parent was physically present in the U.S. for the time period required by the law applicable at the time of the child's birth. (For birth on or after November 14, 1986, a period of five years physical presence, two after the age of fourteen is required. For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, a period of ten years, five after the age of fourteen are required for physical presence in the U.S. to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

Therefore, if the birth occurred outside the U.S. to an 18 year old mother, the requirements for citizenship were not met....or do you have some evidence that Obama's parents were not married at the time of his birth?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

miles and wemo.mike, does "lock up all those who disagree" not sound fascist to you when you say it?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I have done some research on this issue trying desperately to compile enough evidence to make a definitive statement but have been unable to do so.

If you can direct me to a scan of an actual "birth certificate" I would appreciate it. All I have seen to date are scans of a "certification of live birth". It is verifiable public record that a "certification of live birth" is not accepted as a birth certificate, even by the state of Hawaii itself. A "certification of live birth" may also be issue to someone who has presented a valid foreign birth certificate. The only statements made by Hawaiian official were that a birth certificate existed and had been reviewed. No where was it that said "birth certificate" was issued by the state of Hawaii.

As to parentage, it is also public record that, by the laws applicable at the time of Obama's birth, having 1 parent who was a citizen of the U.S. did not automatically confer citizenship upon a child.

If any of what I said above is inaccurate, please direct me to a source for the correct information.

By source I mean case law, not articles in the Huffington Post or factcheck.org

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Why is keeping someone in a cage for life kinder than execution? Fixated pedophiles cannot be cured. Execution prevents future victimization and is both more dignified for the offender and cheaper for the rest of the tax payers.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

sheilach, have you traveled to counties have socialized medicine? (I refuse to call it "single payer" everyone pays for it through taxes) The quality of care is terrible.

Why should everyone be forced to pay for the health care of those 50 million you refer to? Part of the reason hospitals are so expensive now is that it was made illegal for them to turn away patients who cannot pay. Therefore, those who do pay, pay for those who don't.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

miles, I'm not sure that proposing a system wherein anyone who disagrees with the political group in power is sent to "reeducation camps" or "hospital" will get you much support. It has been done in other countries, and is generally considered a human rights violation.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

trenity85, please stop your personal attacks and offensively stereotypical characterizations.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

davidmanheim, I should have been more clear. I ask only that you warn people soliciting prohibited information not to do so, rather than only acting against those who fall for it.

As for anyone being on my "side" I have seen no one here whose opinions match mine on every issue. On the eligibility issue, I have merely stated that I have been shown no verifiable proof either way

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

silver_fenix, what gives you the idea that he has the counties best interest at heart? DO you feel that nationalization of industry and massive deficit spending are beneficial?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Sounds promising. The tax day event was very orderly and peaceful for such a large gathering.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

davidmanheim, please not that there is an open thread in which one of the posters is demanding that anyone who asks birth certificate/ constitutional eligibility questions provide just such personal information as social security numbers. I can only conclude that this is an attempt to get people banned from the forum. I will find that thread and post it here for you to handle.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

stacey, well said!

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

The sheer volume of data would require creating many more federal (tax funded) jobs just to manage

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

That post refers to the "certification of live birth" as a "birth certificate" they are 2 different documents. Please provide the link to a copy of a "birth certificate"

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I agree that there are many instances of dishonesty to consider. I'm not sure the issue of eligibility is silly though.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

...but at least it is open censorship!

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Please note that my screen name contains my real name. I will not post my social security or driver's license numbers in a open forum, since I am a much more likely target for identity theft than a presidential candidate would be. I provide the proper identification when I vote.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Moderators are already deleting entire threads, as well as individual comments within threads

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Unfortunately, that would make it easier for moderators to delete comments they disagree with

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

stevensje, do you really support diverting money from the space program to welfare? Most modern technology, including microcomputers originated with the space program. Who know what the next valuable spin off will be

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I tend to blame parents rather than business. Teach your children what many of us have learned the hard way, DON'T BORROW MONEY---PAY CASH OR DO WITHOUT.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Universal Health Care? No. I've seen socialized medicine in Europe and it isn't pretty
Funding for War? What war?
Immigration Reform? Yes!!! We can't afford to pay for handouts to U.S. citizens, much less the entire world

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

If they tax marijuana like they do tobacco, the potheads will still complain. That said, many of them don't pay any taxes now, so it could be an improvement.

My request, whether any more drugs are legalized or not, is that all forms of intoxication while driving be made a felony on the first offense and that killing another while driving intoxicated be a capitol offense.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

You mean they aren't actually the same person? Put a dress on Putin and see if you can tell the difference

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Why censor a subject. Limit each person on the number of threads they may post per day. I the same issue is still raised repeatedly, then a large number of people are interested.

I cannot say that people's citizenship concerns are irrelevant. I have seen no conclusive evidence either way. I do, however, feel that the bast way to improve our country would be to remove all the incumbents from federal office and replace them with anyone who is not a career politician.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

nathan.grandbois---I believe people are posting multiple threads on the same topic because threads continue to be deleted.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

josh, I suspect people would settle for thread if they were assured that it would not be deleted by the moderators.

I spread no propaganda. I do not claim to know whether Obama is a natural born citizen or not. All I can say is that I have seen no verifiable evidence either way.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I am open to discussing any issue, and I have. However, some of my comments have been deleted because my opinions apparently differ from those of one or more of the moderators. I by no means always correct. I merely want an equal opportunity to participate in dialog.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

please read "votes" in place of "voted". typo

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

luvwith, your comment that Obama received more voted than any other candidate in history is misleading. He received 52% of the popular vote which is one of the narrowest margins ever. However, he targeted his campaign toward states with high numbers of electoral votes and therefore obtained an overwhelming majority in the electoral college.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

What reason has been given for censoring posts that contain no personal attacks, threats, or offensive language?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

bwake_49, were posts removed? I do not see anything about teleprompters.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

They are removing posts from non-birth cert threads as well

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

dutch224, I'm not a republican but I still don't agree with the policies of the current administration. Both parties have taken economic policy in the wrong direction.

I do not believe that either the Bush or Obama "stimulus" plans have done anything positive for the economy, and nationalization is certainly NOT the way to fix ANYTHING!

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

sabylriverwish, to reference the title rather than the narrative of this thread; How do you feel about the fact that the current administration denounced the deficit created by its predecessors then proceeded to triple it? Do you feel it is acceptable for $.46 out of every dollar in the budget be borrowed money?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

info, I do not understand your post. Are you alleging that all recent members of this site engaged in a murder conspiracy? Seems rather far-fetched to me

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Will we or won't we be cut out by the mods this time????????

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

wemo.mike--You are discussing a different issue. The issue was using drug testing in the hiring process and loan applications, not the legal prohibition of marijuana use. Alcohol is legal to consume but there is not law preventing companies from using blood alcohol as a disqualification to hiring.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

The closest I come to a personal attack, is saying that nearly all elected officials from both major parties appear to be crooks. I base that on their performance while in office though, not an analysis of their personal lives.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Thank you for the hope and change comrade moderator.

Am I being a good little peasant now?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

karidrgn, you failed to notice that tax cuts are sustainable as long as the size of the government is kept in check. Taking money from those who work and giving it to those who don't can only work in the short term.

We are approaching the point where half of the population pays no taxes. When non-tax payers become the majority, then system is irrevocably doomed. When a voting majority pays none of the bills, they are free to demand ever more unreasonable benefits. If you are willing to steal a percentage of another person's paycheck, you will soon be willing to steal it all.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

copleykj, If that is the case, why was Franklin quoted as calling the newly created government a republic immediately after the constitution was drafted?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

How would you propose to implement an effective rehabilitation system, especially if you could not compel participation?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Then it goes back to my earlier point, if imprisonment is used, it should be unpleasant. A gentleman named Buddy Williams once proposed allowing convicted capitol felons to choose between execution and life, without parole, at hard labor.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I am saying that whether society chooses death or imprisonment as a way to remove those dangerous to other, those who have committed offenses should have NO choice what so ever.

I'm excluding, so called, morality crimes and specifically discussing offenses against another person.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

copleykj--actually this country is, or at least was intended to be, a democratic republic, not a direct democracy.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Interesting! My previous post has been removed.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I see the problem now! You are saying that the railway would only be profitable if you closed the roads. Not enough people prefer the train to their cars to make it work. How do you propose to force people to use mass transit instead of roads they already voted and paid to build?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Can anyone tell me of a case where a violent offender attacked anyone else after being executed?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

witchwindy--Rehabilitation is a nice idea but has never proven effective. Of course prison's are inhumane! Locking a human being in a cage is an offense against his dignity. However, something has to be done to prevent those with a predatory mindset from victimizing others and the popular belief among pseudo-intellectuals is that caging a person like an animal is somehow kinder that a quick, clean, dignified execution.

Josh Senecal---when you volunteer to prey on other human beings, one way or the other, that should be the last voluntary action you EVER take.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Josh Senecal, The Houston light rail was a local project forced through by the former mayor over the objections of the majority of the population of the city.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Why do the most vehement Obama supporters feel the need to ascribe dehumanizing, stereotype labels to those who disagree with them. Can we discuss an issue without degenerating to name calling?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Does anyone else find it offensive that anyone who asks the wrong questions now has a lable "birther". Its rather dehumanizing. Next, someone will address me as "you people"

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I don't have that kind of cash either, yet. However, I'm saving for it and in 4 or 5 years it will be a different story. That is, if we are not paying 75%+ taxes by then

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

No business run by government turns a profit. It sounds like you have researched and analyzed the issue well enough to present it to some investors and run with it though. Venture capitalists don't care how politically popular your idea is. They just want you to show them how it can make them money. If you decide that only the government can get it done, it will never happen.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

The whole point is that neither side has shown any actual evidence and the Obama camp is working to make sure that not evidence is ever seen.

If you stand on your front porch yelling "I don't have anything illegal in here, so whatever you do, don't look in the closet" long enogh, it starts to seem suspicious.

I never really thought about this issue, until so much trouble was taken to avoid it rather than quickly disproving it.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

The only thing I find on any of those websites fas proof is the same COLB. That is not recognized, even by the state of Hawaii as a birth certificate.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

karidrgn--You are failing to notice the difference between having 1 parent who was a citizen and having 2. Legally there is a difference. There was also the issue of foreign soil vs. a US military base.

As for investigating crimes by government officials, I support you if you are serious and impartial. Do you want to jail everyone who took part in illegal activity or just those who belong to one political party?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

1. I never said I currently scrub toilets, I said that I have done so when it was, briefly, the only job available to me.

2. Do you really not understand the difference between a handout and a recruiting incentive? Schools give merit scholarships for the same reason companies give hiring bonuses. Loosing a little money up front to recruit the best will pay off in the end.

3. I do not believe I am the only one who has responsibility for anything. I take responsibility for myself. I asked that you take responsibility for yourself rather than expect me and other tax payers to provide for you. Feel free not to send any money to me. I'll get by just fine.

4. As for everyone being interconnected, lets use the example of the human body. Many organs in the body work hard and provide a benefit to the whole body. Those we work hard to keep healthy. I jog to build up my heart because I know it will pay off later. The appendix doesn't do much of anything, but it doesn't really take anything from the rest of the body so it is mostly just ignored. If the appendix becomes diseased and starts damaging the other organs, does the body as a whole express support and ask "what more can we do for you". No. If that happened, the appendix would drain more and more from the rest of the body until it burst and kills the entire body. Instead, when the appendix gets inflamed and doesn't get better, it gets cut out. You only stay connected when you are either beneficial or inconspicuous.

5. I have a carrier and a good start on retirement savings. You are whining because no one wants to hire or, lone money to, a pot head and that hurts your feelings. Therefore, you want the federal government to come pat you on the head and make everyone play nice. Which one of us is stupid again?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Apparently if you try to edit out typos in the forum it reposts the entire message.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

The student loans are the easy part. I don't think we as tax payers should be forced to subsidize loans for anyone. If you want to set up a scholarship fund with your own money, feel free.

Food stamps, welfare, and unemployment, same solution. Let people give to charity what their conscience compels them to and stop taking money from working people against their will.

I wanted to go to college and my family couldn't afford it. I didn't go beg for government sponsored financial aid. I worked my butt off to make the grades and test scores to earn a merit based scholarship.

I have never taken "unemployment" because I have never been unemployed long enough. The trick is to be willing to take whatever job is available. You don't have a right to think that scrubbing toilets is beneath you if you are living off the taxes paid by the person who does scrub those toilets.

If someone tells me they won't hire me for some stupid reason (race, religion, gender, etc) I'm not going scream that its unfair and wait for some government agency to come fix it. I'd rather find a competing company that will hire me, and do such a good job that we put that first company out of business.

Stop being a victim! You make your own choices and live with the consequences. Hit the books instead of the bong until colleges beg to give you full scholarships and companies line up to hire you. In the meantime, take any job you can get. If your boss treats you like crap, use that to motivate yourself to work harder.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

The student loans are the easy part. I don't think we as tax payers should be forced to subsidize loans for anyone. If you want to set up a scholarship fund with your own money, feel free.

Food stamps, welfare, and unemployment, same solution. Let people give to charity what there conscience compels them to and stop taking money from working people against their will.

I wanted to go to college and my family couldn't afford it. I didn't go bed for government sponsored financial aid. I worked my butt off to make the grades and test scores to earn a merit based scholarship.

I have never taken "unemployment" because I have never been unemployed long enough. The trick is to be willing to take whatever job is available. You don't have a right to think that scrubbing toilets is beneath you if you are living off taxes of the person who does scrub those toilets.

If someone tells me they won't hire me for some stupid reason (race, religion, gender, etc) I'm not going scream that its unfair and wait for some government agency to come fix it. I'd rather find a competing company that will hire me, and do such a good job that we put that first company out of business.

Stop being a victim! You make your own choices and live with the consequences. Hit the books instead of the bong until colleges beg to give you full scholarships and companies line up to hire you. In the meantime, take any job you can get. If your boss treats you like crap, use that to motivate yourself to work harder.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Someone is going to come and force me to borrow money? Or are you saying that no one will sell me a house for cash?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Judge Sotomayor has had her decisions overturned by the current Supreme Court several times, with insufficient knowledge of applicable law cited as the reason.

The fact that she is a member of a vehemently ethnocentric (not racist because hispanic is an ethnicity not a race) political organization is a secondary issue but still relevant.

I'm rather disappointed that her tough childhood keeps being mentioned as if it were a job qualification.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

So how do you handle situations where one person's self-determination not to bathe interferes with another's rights to an uncontaminated environment?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I thought we grew out of the "peace, love, and dope" mantra decades ago!

Socialism has always failed and always will. If everyone is given whatever they need, regardless of how much they contribute, then there is no incentive for anyone to work hard. Eventually the system winds down and nothing gets produced everyone starves together.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Obama's (citizenship status)eligibility is a priority because, if he was never eligible for office, then all the destructive decisions he has made are invalid. That way we might have a change to pull out of this mess.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

You are forgetting about those who came in to get a look at a the birth cert posts and stayed to poke holes in the rest of the poie in the sky socialist pipe dreams.

For instance, I used to have some sympathy for the "marijuana legalization" crowd. Now that I have read what they have to say on other issues, I think smoking that stuff my cause brain damage after all.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

karma123---If i proclaimed in all caps "ALL MALE DOGS HAVE 4 TESTICLES" would you believe me, or would you want some proof?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

kdtroxel, so are you advocating that governmental authority be mostly at the state level on the basis of the abuse of power by federal administrations?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

If there was enough demand for rail transportation, then wouldn't the railway be making a profit and still be in business?

I will happily support programs to help the homeless find jobs and get back on their feet. However, it should be by my own choice not a tax funded program.

That said, those that would rather freeze than get a job, have every right to do so.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

So you want me, as a tax payer, to pay someone to do unproductive busywork rather that subject them to the indignity of looking for a job? I've never been unemployed for very long, because I forget about my dignity when I'm broke. For me, there was more self respect in scrubbing toilets for minimum wage than in taking a handout.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I dislike the idea of tell people what they can consider when deciding to hire someone. If you spent the time and money to build a company, pay whoever you want to work there. If you pass on hiring qualified people for insufficient reason then your company will fail and another will succeed.

If the owner of a company wants to shut the whole operation down, should he be forced to stay in business so that qualified employees don't loose their jobs?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Why would anyone believe the global warming rhetoric with any real evidence? Is a computer generated image of a polar bear drowning really that convincing?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

tf.gray-- I would settle for seeing it once. The only document posted was a Certificate of Live Birth. One does not have to be born in Hawaii to obtain a COLB there.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I am incapable of wishing success to a person whose plan is to destroy our nation.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I was too overwhelmed by nifty buzz-words to see any actual content in there.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Simpler solution - stop giving out "stimulus" money

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

I think wee will get better results with an election day initiative where we order most if not all of the current office holders to walk out the door and keep on walking.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Why not eliminate federal grants all together and reduce taxes instead? If the people kept more of there money, maybe they would have more time to keep an eye on their local politicians?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Mass transit only works in cities with centralized populations. Light rail in Houston was a massive mistake. It has done nothing to help traffic congestion and serves mainly as a mobile homeless shelter.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Come look at Houston. We have a VERY expensive light rail system that no one wanted and that mostly provides an air conditioned place for the homeless to sleep.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

Lets try a 12 hour day, six days per week, and move up from there! Prison is supposed to serve as a deterrent to crime, so lets make sure it is unpleasant. Make it easier and more rewarding to work for a living than to commit felonies.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

This is depressing. "Remanding within the states the total economic and legal custodianship"? I always thought that the idea behind the constitution was the the sates should have very little power and the federal government would have almost none. The smaller the scope of the governmental entity, the greater the freedom of action it is granted. It is much easier for the people to tell their representatives when to back off that way.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

How is direct governmental control of the mortgage rates preferable to raising out children to avoid borrowing money? Rather than protecting people from there own stupidity and greed, why not educate them?

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

You are on the right track but your scope is too narrow. I have no trouble believing that small town racists have abused system. However, I hope you will not focus so closely on the local level that you miss they wide spread abuse of forfeiture laws on the federal level to further a political agenda.

jwelborn3434 9 months ago

kim, I think you unintentionally proved chloe's point but I doubt you will ever realize it.

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