tilapia2006

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Big Rooster - lest you forgot, "Israel" started it by invading Palestine before they "became" Israel (a total farce via the Balfour Declaration). If some foreign nation invaded America, you better believe I'm going to attack them daily until I defeat them.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Okay, here we go. Here's proof of exactly what a 1961, 1962, and 1963 Hawaii birth certificate looks like. And just for kicks, I'm going to show you what a 1979 COPY of a birth certificate issued in 1971 looks like (since some claim he only possessed a copy back then) - note how much information is contained even on this 8 year old copy (No more "he could only get a copy" excuses). He could release his if he wanted to. Anyway ... Have fun kids!

1961 HI Birth Certificate
http://newmediajournal.us/images/obama_bc.gif

1962 HI Birth Certificate
http://media.photobucket.com/image/hawaii%20birth%20certificate/neweng1962/Certificate-of-Live-Birth-for-Hawai.jpg

1963 HI Birth Certificate
http://snarkybytes.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/hawaii-birth-certificate-1963.jpg

1979 COPY of a HI Birth Certificate originally issued in 1971
http://appraisercom.com/HI-birthcertificate-sm.jpg

Thanks for playing.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Twitchy:
You stated:
"Yes, the long-form is filed in Hawaii's archives right now, along with every other birth certificate ever filed with the State. So what?"

Obama could easily authorize the release of this document to the public, putting the controversy to rest ... but he refuses. That's what. Why doesn't he do this?

You stated:
"If you had been born in Hawaii, and asked, today, for an official copy of your birth certificate, what you would get is the Certification of Live Birth. That is your birth certificate, for official purposes. That is proof of citizenship, for official purposes. There's no need to look at the long-form. There's nothing on the long-form that is needed to prove Obama's citizenship that isn't on the short-form BC."

This is more distraction for the issue.

You stated:
"Again, what need is there to look at the long-form BC? What information do you need that isn't on the short form?"

Try attending physician, hospital name, footprints, etc.

But again, the issue is simple: Why won't Obama just release this document (or if he wants to keep it hidden that bad, release his passport record, school records, etc) and put the whole controversy to rest?

Okay, this whole debate is becoming redundant. Would it make you, and all the other Obama faithful, feel better - feel validated - if I just said, "Fine, You win" and ended this incessant arguing? I have nearly a thousand lepidoptera specimens I still have to encode and catalog, and I don't have much patience left for this. I'll post one more comment with actual HI birth certificates, for those who are interested and who find it relative. Beyond that, pat yourself on the back - You "win" and I must get back to more important things than arguing with keyboard jockeys.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Twitchy:
You're dodging the issue and trying the old Alinsky distraction technique. Read this again.

"You're STILL not addressing why both Obama, in his book, and the HI registrar of vital statistics confirmed not only the existence of the long form birth certificate, but that it is held in HI. The fact is, the long form birth certificate is sitting in Hawaii right now. Why won't Obama authorize its release?"

Let me make it simple for you. Let's say the authorities want me to prove that my vehicle is mine. If I show them an unsigned Bill-of-Sale, they will not be too impressed. If they ask if I have the original Official Title, I say yes. Then if they asked to see the original Official Title and I say, "Nope, sorry. You can't see that." How much sense will that make, and how quickly might they question whether the vehicle is even mine? The BOS shows the buyer, seller, VIN number, date of sale. But it's not the Official Title. Then let's suppose they demand to see the registration, but I have a team of lawyers prevent them from seeing it. Making any sense?

Obama and the HI registrar of vital statistics have both stated the long form birth certificate exists, and it is confirmed to be in Hawaii right now. So quit DODGING THE ISSUE and answer - why won't Obama release the long form birth certificate and put the whole controversy to rest? What would he lose by releasing that document that could possibly outweigh what he would gain (ending the controversy)? Use common sense for crying out loud. Something isn't right about the situation.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Twitchy:
You're STILL not addressing why both Obama, in his book, and the HI registrar of vital statistics confirmed not only the existence of the long form birth certificate, but that it is held in HI. The fact is, the long form birth certificate is sitting in Hawaii right now. Why won't Obama authorize its release?

tilapia2006 9 months ago

(Oh, and tsiya, I didn't mean to leave you out.)

Salami!

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Yeah ... okay. Sure. That's why they continue to slaughter hundreds of innocent men, women and children for every few Israeli's killed. They just feel soooo sad.

And stalepie: Nice pick with the Apologetics site for Talmudism that uses the "edited" version of the Talmud. For crying out loud, when I took 4 years of Hebrew, my Jewish professor even admitted those things I quoted are in the Talmud. Please stop arguing out of ignorance. Oh, and are you even aware of how vile the Noahide laws and the punishments for violating them are? Do some research.

And what's your point about Nu 25:4-5 and Deut 13:6-9? Are you saying you agree with murdering people for believing differently? You're okay with murdering "idolaters?" And as long as Deut 13:6-9 "refers to israelites" you're okay with the murder? Seriously, what's your point?

tilapia2006 9 months ago

tsiya:
Please. Stop acting like it's all the muslims fault.

The talmud teaches violence and hate, for instance:
Even the best of gentiles should be killed (Soferim 15, Rule 10)
If a gentile hits a Jew, the gentile must be executed (Sanhedrin 58b)

And the bible teaches violence and hate too, for instance:
Kill those who worship differently than you (Nu 25:4-5, Ex 22:20)
Kill anyone who curses his father and mother (Ex 21:17, Lev 20:9, Deut 21:18-21)
Kill any family member, whether son, daughter or wife, if they worship a different god than you (Deut 13:6-9)

When are people going to realize that the 3 big desert religions, all born of the same small nomadic Abrahamic cult, are the scourges of the earth and have caused more hate, bloodshed, death and torment than any pathogen?

The Muslims and the Jews both believe that their archaic religions give them "god given" right to kill the other. This issue will never be resolved until religion is eliminated from the equation.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

OkeeDokee Big Rooster. You must have more inside info than the rest of the world, because I know I missed the press conference that god held declaring that he stepped in to broker the Jerusalem deal. (:rolls eyes:)

tilapia2006 9 months ago

evreport:
Gosh, I know you went to a lot of trouble with that post, and all the copying and pasting ... it almost makes me feel bad for shooting it down so easily.

Your entire post is completely irrelevant. You're talking current procedures verse procedures from the early 60s. They did in fact issue long form birth certificates at that time. I can prove it, and show you EXACTLY what one issued at that time (and more than a decade after) looks like.

Secondly, Obama himself acknowledged in his book that the long form birth certificate exists. And the Hawaii registrar of vital statistics already issued a statement saying that she had personally seen and "verified" Obama's original long form birth certificate and that it is indeed held in Hawaii.

So ... sorry, but your argument just crumbled.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Twitchy, please. What Michael Medved thinks is about as important as what Mickey Mouse thinks. You're just avoiding the issue and distracting from the pertinent questions.

Why not answer this: Why is it, that both Obama and the state of Hawaii, acknowledge that the long form birth certificate exists, yet neither of them will allow it to be seen?

And please stop that tired of tripe that the certification of live birth provides enough info to prove citizenship ... it does not. It is not equal to the actual long form birth certificate, no more so than an unsigned hand-written Bill-of-Sale is equal to the original Official Title of a vehicle. The info on the certification of live birth is sparse and unverified, and it is merely accepted as de facto information from the parent. It is prima facie evidence of nothing more than a live birth occurred. Since Obama and the state of Hawaii have both acknowledged the existence of the long form birth certificate, it is not the least bit "crazy" or "troubled" for citizens to ask a) Can we see the long form? and b) Why not? Use common sense okay.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

It's called hyperbolic sarcasm (similar to sardonic rhetoric). It's not a claim of fact. Although, a logical person would deduce that if a person refuses to release certain personal information that they are indeed hiding something in regard to that personal information. Common sense (Sorry, I realize that may be a foreign concept to you).

But of course, as I predicted, you are too afraid to address the issues I brought up. You just distract, distract, distract, hoping no one realizes that your vacuous arguments are the ultimate exercise in futility and avoidance. I understand ... you're just embarrassed that you didn't understand the logical fallacies of your argument out of ignorance. When you're ready to provide evidence for your claims, then we can talk.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

So felkakarp, are you suggesting (with your out-of-context quotation) that one who makes no claim (such as myself), is required to provide evidence for a non-existent claim? Do you realize how utterly stupid that is? That's more ignorant than the logical fallacy of trying to prove a negative - it's demanding one prove a non-existent! HAHAHA!

You can't possibly be serious. Either that, or you're some preteen that I've been duped into arguing with. I mean come on!

Let me explain this again ... as plainly and slowly as I can. I am NOT claiming that Obama WAS or WASN'T born in Hawaii. Therefore, because I am NOT making a claim either way, there is NO burden of proof on me to provide evidence. However, YOU are making a positive claim that Obama WAS born in Hawaii. Since YOU are making a positive claim, the burden of proof is on YOU to prove it and provide evidence. Yet, you REFUSE to provide any evidence and just keep dodging the issue and making fun of those who disagree with you (real mature).

So you see, YOU are making a claim that YOU refuse to back up with evidence, whereas I am merely asking for proof of the assertion, rather than making a claim. You didn't address this the last time I pointed it out, and I imagine you're too afraid to address it this time either. It's that same fear that makes you rip quotes out-of-context.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

felkakarp:
You stated, "They won't listen, even though it says "this copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceding" Except their little kangaroo court of course. Have they presented greater evidence, or even equal evidence, or even any evidence that he was born somewhere else? NO! Does evidence really matter to them. HELL NO!"

Don't you ever get tired of being wrong? The certification of live birth posted on the internet does not equal the long form birth certificate. You even stated it yourself - it's prima facie evidence of THE FACT OF BIRTH. That's it. It is not evidence of birthPLACE, HOSPITAL, ATTENDING PHYSICIAN, etc. It is simply accepted as evidence that there was in fact a live birth, with basic unverified information received de facto from the parent requesting the certification of live birth. It basically states nothing more than, Yes, this child was born alive. Hospital? Doesn't say. Attending physician? Doesn't say. Any person with a shred of acumen knows that document is essentially worthless. It's like trying to say a hand written Bill of Sale is the same as the Official Title of a vehicle. Seriously, use you brain.

Secondly, we don't have to present ANY evidence whatsoever. We're not the ones with a shady past claiming to be an American citizen, and then refusing to prove it. The burden of proof lies squarely on Obama. And the onus is on YOU. You claim he's a NBC - we say, prove it.

You're being ignorant okay. Literally, you're making an argument from ignorance. You're asking me (and other "birthers") to prove a negative which is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that the premise is true only because it has not been proven false. Your entire argument is illogical and foolish. The onus is upon Obama (and by extension his "Hawaii birth" supporters) to prove that he WAS born in Hawaii.

I'm not claiming that he was or wasn't born in Hawaii, therefore the onus is NOT on me, I'm only demanding that the assertion that he WAS, is proved by simply releasing the original long form birth certificate.

Your whole house of cards argument is built on a foundation of logical fallacy, whereas mine is simply asking for proof of the assertion.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Your last statement is indeed a very good point.

And I would like to think we could redirect some money from Planned Parenthood for a program like I suggest, however, that's quite a racket they have going over there at PP and I doubt they'd let any of their funds be redirected without a major fight.

I like your support list. I am the same - sort of a cross between a Ron Paul Republican and a Libertarian. I just happen to diverge a little bit on this issue.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Silly argument. The gang bangers aren't the original owners of my living room.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

tolynette:
I don't mean to have ignored your suggestion ... and it's not bad. However, a charity is extremely unlikely to have a productive benefit nationwide. Most charities are often incredibly limited to who and how many they can help ... unless they receive government funding. This is essentially the premise. Contrary to the negative points, my idea is very good and has been highly praised outside of this forum. I just think that it has received negative votes because of all the heavy traffic coming here from WorldNetDaily (which is ironically how I heard about this site). It would be calloused to not want to help people on this matter with a government funded program.

I have a personal friend who could've used it. She already had two children, and given her circumstances a third was out of the question. But without insurance or money, she could not have a tubal ligation and she got pregnant. She was terrified. She had a nervous breakdown. She considered abortion and was tormented by trying to make that decision. All of which could've been avoided if a program offering free tubal ligation had existed. I honestly think that people just have an irrational fear of the word "sterilization."

tilapia2006 9 months ago

What in the world are you talking about?!? Are you sure you posted on the correct topic? Sodom and Gomorrah have nothing to do with US-Israeli relations.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Justify mass murder of innocents in non-militarized areas all you want. It will never make it right.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

jeff:
You stated, "Anyway, I've had my say on this one, you can have the last word."

Oh, can I? Can I, can I?!? Thank you kind sir for giving me permission to have the last word.

And I'll take it, because of the ridiculous statements you just made. Let's start with this one: "She created a voluntary program called abortion. This effort has promoted significantly, her racist efforts to cull the black population."

I honestly laughed when I read that. Where do you get that information? ... Black Panther Monthly Digest? Here's the facts. First, let's address that "culling" of the black population. Let's see, in 1970 the US black population was 22.6 million (11.1%). As of 2006, the black population was 40.9 million (30.4%). Call me crazy, but "eugenics" plans to "cull" a race of people doesn't usually let them nearly DOUBLE in number during the "eugenics" active period. Yeah, that Margaret Sanger was a real evil mastermind.

Now in regard to the abortion numbers ... According to Kaiser, as of 2005, 53% of all abortions were on white women, verses 35.5% on black women.

Furthermore, the CDC reports that white women have ALWAYS had the largest percentage of abortions. For instance, white women comprised 72.5% of all abortions in 1973, 69.9% in 1980, 64.8% in 1990 and 56.6% in 2000. Compare this to 27.5%, 30.1%, 31.9%, and 36.3% in those same respective years for black women. Save the fairy tales for the fantasy forums.

And whether you admit it or not, you're refusing to address the issue and still using the tired old tactic of taking something you disagree with and continuing to deceitfully label it in association with something that people find offensive and appalling, hoping if you do it enough, it will be successful. As I said before, it's utter nonsense, akin to arguing with non sequiturs.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

jeff:
You stated, "Besides all the above, I've been around rich people and I've been around poor people and the content of the character of the poor people typically surpasses the rich."

Thank you kindly. I happen to be one of the poor folks. I appreciate the compliment - it is true.

Otherwise though, your entire premise is fatally flawed. Number one, you keep trying to discredit my idea by repetitively attempting to associate it with Nazi eugenics. It's a tired old tactic - take something you disagree with and keep labeling it in association with something that people find offensive and appalling. Do it enough, and it can be successful. It's utter nonsense, akin to arguing with non sequiturs.

Secondly, it's simply not eugenics. You WISH it were eugenics so that you would have a legitimate argument, but it's not. I haven't selected anybody - neither poor, nor rich, nor in between. These people from all walks of life have have agreed with the idea on their own accord, and would volunteer out of their own desires. You're just upset because you can't figure out how to pull the old slight of hand and present a cogent argument that the program is somehow "sinister eugenics" - "Watch out! There's another holocaust hiding in that closet!" You even posted the definition of eugenics, PROVING that this program is NOT eugenics, as it takes NO genetic qualities or selective breeding (a rather dehumanizing term, don't you think?) into account.

You stated, "If I was to propose a eugenics program (which I would not) I would direct it at some of the rich folks for the woes that this country is currently experiencing ..."

Ah, colors revealed! Whereas I would like the program I propose to be available to all people, YOU would target people because of their financial status and class. That sounds a little suspicious of Karl Marx type of reasoning. Are you ...?

tilapia2006 9 months ago

No, under my logic if Mexico launched some missiles into California and killed 6 people, the USA would not have the right to launch a massive attack against Mexico in non-militarized areas slaughtering hundreds upon hundreds of innocent men, women and children. That's not retaliation or counter attacks - that's bloodthirsty overkill. I'm not defending muslim terrorists, I'm condemning Israel's overkill bloodbaths that they call "retaliation."

tilapia2006 9 months ago

raedle:
* Costs would be less than the welfare burden of all the welfare children and mothers currently.
* Abuse is not possible. The more who volunteer to have free sterilization procedures, the merrier.
* It's not population control - it's making services available that people desire but cannot afford, that would in turn have indirect benefits to the tax payer and the US economy.
* It's not government control - it's government cooperation for voluntary procedures.
* It will ultimately lower costs - significantly

jeff:
Yeah, I couldn't resist. I had to respond in kind. I admit, it's more fun.

And despite your conspiracy mindset, this program would be voluntary, not some sinister imaginary eugenics program. Like I've said, we've spoken with hundreds of people across 16 communities (so far), and the survey results show overwhelmingly that people desire these procedures to be more available. Honestly, if the government has no problem funding abortion availability, why not provide the same availability for sterilization procedures which would in turn have a net effect of reducing abortions? Which would also reduce the necessary funding for abortion availability, again reducing tax payer burden.

I agree, eliminating the whole socialism crutch would be ideal (as well as instituting something like the FairTax and cutting foreign aid to Israel, Africa, etc). But unfortunately, I don't see that happening any time in the foreseeable future. The US walked all the ten planks of communism as listed by Marx, long ago and it's a long road back. In the meantime, I find it to be more logical and productive to propose a solution that would reduce the costs and reduce the burden on the tax payer, hence my proposal here.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Wow wemo.mike, what a convincing argument. Everyone, notify the media with Mike's amazing discovery! (note sarcasm please) Okay, Mike: Grow up. No, really ... grow up. Stop using Alinsky's tactics - we all know them and it just makes you look like a hate-filled, bigoted fool. Come back after you've gotten past the diapers and tantrums phase, and actually have something of value to add to the discussion - or of course, if you can provide a cogent argument as to why Obama SHOULDN'T show his long form birth certificate and other documents (not holding my breath). Until then, you've simply showed us all your hand and have revealed just how pathetically weak your argument is by resorting to childish argumentum ad hominem.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Nice fear-mongering and spastic hyperbole jeff. Take your tin foil hat off numbnuts, I said VOLUNTARY. I have spoken to hundreds of people across 16 communities, and this is a very real concern for people.

And ricardomigrant, we have done 4 analyses in regard to taxpayer cost and burden, and the costs to tax payers paying for the innumerable children born on welfare, nearly triples what the cost would be for such a voluntary sterilization program. There are of course variables which cannot yet fully be accounted for until such a program exists, but it is by far more costly to the tax payer to pay for all of the children (and mothers) born into welfare.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Exactly! If my citizenship was in question even the slightest, I could put it to rest within 5 minutes by showing my original LONG FORM birth certificate. Either Obama is hiding something or he has a mental disorder rendering him incapable of grasping this concept.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Excellent idea. Our leaders have been licking Israel's boots and following AIPAC's orders for far too long. And every time, we look the other way as Israel's military slaughters hundreds of innocent men, women and children in "retaliation" for a few people killed in a bombing. That's not retaliation - it's bloodthirsty overkill.

Good idea.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

I'm in the negative already?!? I mean seriously, who in their right mind using logic and reason would oppose this idea? Geez people!

tilapia2006 9 months ago

(Not only am I reposting my idea, since it mysteriously vanished, but I am posting here also, all of the original comment dialogue as archived in the order posted, for posterity)

susan - 2 days ago
This is looking like the most idiotic and least transparent administration ever.

dandapper111 - 2 days ago
http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/11/22/obamas_born_conspiracy_obamas_bogus_birth_certificate_exposed!.thtml

The birth certificate posted on FatCheck and other various sites are forgeries.

jparchery02 - 2 days ago
there seams to be no problem releasing classifide info from Gitmo but you refuse to release your long form birth certificate, please dont bore me with the live birth certificate I have one of them and I was not born in Hawaii, instead you have hired 3 compleat law firms and spent millions to hide your B C, passport records and school records we are not all mindless school kids who think your our savior
WHERES THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ?

npkw - 2 days ago
I have viewed the Certificate of Live Birth online that people assume is verification. It is not a Birth Certificate. Any one of us can acquire a similar document just to verify we had a "live birth." It is not the actual birth certificate an attending physician signed. Our government officials well know this and should have long ago released the actual birth certificate (not Certificate of Live Birth). If nothing is wrong, why continue to hide it and spend over one million in legal fees, as they have so far, to "hide the original" Birth Certificate? Why has the Governor of Hawaii stated she "viewed" it, rather than release it? Are they simply buying time so as to perfect a fake one? To destroy travel and education records forever that prove something they want to hide? What is Transparency?

I never cease to be amazed that Americans do not think this as important. Americans no longer care for truth, they prefer to embrace what they "want to hear." I am surprised that any President would desire to hide his original records and be allowed to do so!

Travel, organizational affiliations, Birth and Educational records, of elected officials are to be open books. We elect these people and need to first know about their life, lest we elect an imposter. We have an American responsibility. This is fact,not rumor.

info - 1 day ago
There appears a concerted effort to vote down single payer. conservatives have invaded this web site and have registered on jun 1 and voted single payer actions listed on this web site. they appear organized. It does not appear enough that they have killed a doctor, now they want to kill single payer too. Also they have come and created bogus efforts to question the citizenship of our legitimately elected President.

susan - 1 day ago
"There appears a concerted effort to vote down single payer. conservatives have invaded this web site and have registered on jun 1 and voted single payer actions listed on this web site. they appear organized."

Single payer? Can I vote against that sham idea here too? Thanks for pointing it out - I will do that now too!

I HOPE we're getting organized! Idiots who think money grows on trees and that they can scam Americans with redistribution schemes will eventually awaken those who actually understand economics and know history! Single payer defies logic - it has not and will not work.

info - 1 day ago
There appears a concerted effort to vote down single payer. conservatives have invaded this web site and have registered on jun 1 and voted down single payer actions listed on this web site. They appear organized. It does not appear enough that they have killed a doctor, now they want to kill single payer too. Also they have come and created bogus efforts to question the citizenship of our legitimately elected President. The conservatives have INVADED this web site on June 1. Ban this user who created this bogus notion.

tilapia2006 - 1 day ago
So "info" - are you suggesting that I, as an American citizen, do not deserve the same right to be heard as you do, since I don't agree with you? Hate much? You can take you fascist ideology elsewhere. Whereas you feel validated in posting spurious, unsubstantiated claims ("legitimately elected President"), you also are so elitist that you believe my legitimate and factual concerns about the obvious birth certificate cover-up are merely "bogus" and I should be banned. Not only that, seeing as how you have no rational or cogent counter argument, you resort to weak-minded argumentum ad hominem and make libelous and derogatory statements like, "they have killed a doctor" in an attempt to lump all of your opponents together under an evil umbrella. That's weak - very weak, and you know it. Why don't you exercise some logic and reason, and then come back to post something of substance, rather than just throw a hissy fit over the fact that - gasp! - lots of people disagree with you. Word to the wise: Your communist mindset of "silence the opposition" will not bode well for you. It will only expose your true elitist intentions and awaken multitudes to the farce you try to pass off.

StrangeTruth - 1 day ago
TheObamaFile.com

The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com
for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials

This informative site presents the most historically accurate, legally correct and genuinely unbiased credible explanation of the eligibility issue I have found, following several months of studious searching for accurate clarification, of what I now regretfully regard as an illegal usurpation of the office of the President of the United States of America.

Obviously calling onto question the constitutional eligibility of a sitting president is a serious matter, however our president is not above the rule of law. The Constitution is our greatest protection from abusive government. Throughout the history of mankind, political power has frequently been seized irrespective of the will of the governed, often violently. Perhaps owing to our imperfect nature, totalitarianism has more often been the rule, rather than the exception.

Our Constitution as first envisioned and ultimately realized by the benefits of both pen and sword, was founded as a heart felt invention of necessity by men so deathly tired of oppression, that they determined despite any cost, to establish our Constitutional Republic. With the Constitution, our Founding Father's planted a seed in soil richly nourished in blood, that with similar courage United States citizens might forever more be able to exercise their God given inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in at least one free and just nation upon the face of the earth.

Respectfully, a Vet.

The Constitution still matters,
but only for as long as 'we the people, by continuing to support and defend it, say so!
The Constitution will protect the citizens for as long as the citizens protect the Constitution.

Please consider the following:
http://www.theobamafile.com

Especially this particular TheObamafile.com page:
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

herself333 - 1 day ago
We want Obama's original birth certificate. Stop playing like he's shown it, he hasn't. Simple, show it.

tb1016 - 1 day ago
Get used to saying, "Heil, Obama!"..............

chad.laston - 1 day ago
There is absolutely no reason that people should still question this issue Mr. Obama. All of your records should be released. As a man with nothing to hide, as a man that has promised the most open administration there is no reason to not make these open to the public. When you decided to run for the president you made all aspects of your life public interest and your qualifications must be made public record. You cloud your own presidency and dishonor your service by helping keep the 'conspiracy' alive. Its situations like this that force a man to use logic and common sense to come to a conclusion and the conclusion that I come to is that there is something to hide. Prove us all wrong sir.

pepper4000 - 22 hours ago
America is beginning to see the truth. If Obama had nothing to hide, he would have produced the documents before the election. He needs to answer these questions once and for all. They are not going away. These questions are really starting to make sense to more and more people. Man up.

info - 22 hours ago
You Republiklan party cyberterrorists have the right to express your opinions, but you don't have the right as an organized group from say Frei Republik or some other Right Wingow forum to come to a government site and sabotage the site with hundreds of very similar topics about the xistence of the President's birth certificate. We realize why you're doing this, to obstruct government business. I would not find it surprising if your names haven't gotten sent to the FBI cyberterrorist units for placing hundreds of topics about Barack Obama's birth certificate. Most of you right wing zombies just registered today Jun 1 and have done cybervandalism and cyberterrorism. I don't want to see you go to GITMO. The government should send you Republiklan party members to Alcatraz instead while awaiting trial for cyberterrorism. Enjoy your freedom while you can, then off to Alcatraz with you right wing terrorists.

The GOPranos have created the climate for the killing of Dr. Tiller. They repeatedly called 4 an end to a legal medical procedure. Now their cyberterrorists have come to this opengov site to kill open discussion and flood this site with several hundreds of entries about the birth certificate of Barack Obama. Remove this above entry and ban the user who posted it.

tilapia2006 - 20 hours ago
Again, "info" - Take your communist ideology elsewhere. You obviously have no argument, hence the hate-filled name calling. Cyberterrorists? Please! Grow up kid. Calling people who disagree with you "cyberterrorists" doesn't automatically make it such. You've been reading too much Harry Potter. Did it ever occur to you, that we all have legitimate concerns about the birth certificate issue? Just because your view is the extremist minority view, doesn't mean that those of us expressing OUR concerns are invalid, or some sort of "cyber-vandalism" or "cyber-terrorism."

I'm surprised you're so adoring of Bush's fear-mongering tactics. It says volumes about you, that you want anyone who disagrees with you to be sent to imprisonment, constitution and due process be damned. Why can't you simply present a cogent argument for your position? You're just a trouble maker, with nothing intelligent to say. Like I said before, your communist ideology of "silence the opposition" just reveals the pathetic character you are. Rather than cherish American freedom and values, you prefer totalitarian rule where all who disagree with you are eliminated. You freakin Nazi. And no one is here to "obstruct government business." What an asinine and hyper-alarmist piece of hyperbolic drivel.

You have made no cogent argument for your viewpoint, no logical counterpoints, and have posited no realistic debate points. All you have done is demand that anyone who disagrees with you be banned and silenced, and since you have no rational thing to say you do nothing but throw out argumentum ad hominem and vacuous hate speech. Your intolerance and bigotry are profound. If you can't grow up and act like an adult, then just go back to your communist forums and leave this very important discussion to those of us (on both sides) who actually care about this country and having intelligent discussion. Now go ahead and get lost, okay?

darrelmulloy - 21 hours ago
So INFO, let's see if I got this right. If all of us right wing nuts are asking a legitimate question that has not been answered since the primary season, we are going to be subject to a terrorist investigation; is that right?

The media watchdogs were asleep all through the campaign season. This is not a new issue, it was brought up long ago and never answered. McCain's citizenship was questioned and vetted by the media, but Obama's was questioned but not vetted and even fought by every legal avenue to conceal. Those who quote the Snopes site or Factcheck fail to mention that those documents they verify are not the long form birth certificate. There is also the question of the passport used in 1980 to visit Pakistan and the concealment of school records. Inquiring minds want to know.

mail2me - 18 hours ago
President Obama rightly campaiged for openness and transparency in government and politics, shouting we need change from the rooftops.

He stated that he would be different from the Bush Republicans who were honest and open.

Since then he has spent hundreds of thousands of public donations to avoid showing his long form birth certificate to the people of the USA.

Until he shows his Long Form Birth certificate he comes across as a Liar and a fraud, hence the growing public agitation over the issue.
Its a matter of integrity and honestly over hypocrisy.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Well, since the original comments disappeared for some reason, here they are again as archived in the order posted, for posterity--

tilapia2006 - 1 day ago
Hmmm ... let me see ... you can't provide a single rational, logical or cogent counter argument to the Obama birth certificate cover-up, so you post sardonic nonsense in an attempt to distract from the issue. "Hey you! Don't look at the man behind the curtain! Look over here!"

mrbuzzsaw - 1 day ago
it is known as the 180 Degree argument cant win the argument so you turn it 180 degrees hoping to needle people into giving up in frustration.

felkakarp - 1 day ago
Have you ever even seen a Certificate of Live Birth for any other president, let alone a Birth Certificate? But go ahead, if you don't like the message, blame the messenger.

tilapia2006 - 1 day ago
felkakarp: Have we ever had another president of such secretive, dubious and suspicious background and birthplace? Even McCain's citizenship eligibility was brought before hearing and confirmed. Are you suggesting we apply different rules for Obama?

Oh, and nice pace at trying to distract and divert from the real issue. I take it you've read Alinsky's book?

sheplazguitar - 1 day ago
all this bull still says one thing...obama is ilegal and paying lots of money to hide it ... black or white ... you are screwed if nothing is done. and he IS the President...If Demo's are just now whinning about Bushe's BC...why the heck didnt they do it in the last 8 yrs he was in office?? DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

sheplazguitar - 1 day ago
How many presidents have paid to hide their Birth Certificate's ???.....How many times have American's asked other President's to prove it???? If you had questions before you should have asked then....dont wait till the sore has healed over to cry....Hundreds and thousands want to know NOW....their common sence tells them danger is in the air...If you are lacking the sence to know the difference...than shut up..live the present and get out of the past.

felkakarp - 1 day ago
"If Demo's are just now whinning about Bushe's BC...why the heck didnt they do it in the last 8 yrs he was in office?"

That just shows how well he covered his tracks.

"How many presidents have paid to hide their Birth Certificate's?"

George Bush did. Read my post again.

herself333 - 1 day ago
We didn't need Bush's birth certificate...Obama has a shady past and what made it more shady was he did NOT post his original long form birth certificate. When anyone works for the federal government, they must show their long form original birth certificate. Obama has not done that.

herself333 - 1 day ago
If Obama has nothing to hide, why won't he show the long form birth certificate? It's simple. There is no defense when hiding that.

felkakarp - 1 day ago
sheplazguitar

"black or white"?

That doesn't have anything to do with it, does it?

Na-a-a-ah!!!

sheplazguitar - 1 day ago
Why didn't all the leftie demo's stand up and demand to see Bush's BC while he was in office??? why are you waiting untill now to say something...I never saw one bilboard asking for Bush's BC....I did not see a well respected Republican Attorney fighting for truth and demanding to see it....I did not see floods and floods or internet news on it...Nor dozens of states filling lawsuits...nor HAVE I EVER SEEN BUSH WEARING MUSLIM GARB AND HANGING OUT WITH TERRORIST !

zapolindo - 1 day ago
I think Bush should be asked to produce his birth certificate. He would comply. He's got nothing to hide there.

felkakarp - 1 day ago
So that's a thumbs up then, YAY!!

ipsler.gonkler - 23 hours ago
$400,000? That's about 12 Obama "dates" on the town. Give me a break. President Obama has spent over $1 million in legal fees to suppress access to his documents. Dear President, I'll show you my long form birth certificate and college records if you show me yours.

felkakarp - 22 hours ago
How do I know your birth certificate isn't forged?

tilapia2006 - 21 hours ago
What does whether it's forged or not have to do with the issue?

felkakarp - 20 hours ago
Does it matter whether President Obama's Certificate of Live Birth is forged or not? Actually No because you all say it is anyway, without any factual basis whatsoever to back it up, just like if you saw his birth certificate you'd say he faked that too without any factual basis whatsoever to back it up, and just like there's no factual basis for saying that Obama has spent millions to make sure the long form birth certificate, passport records, and school records are hidden from the public. Give me just one link that shows a factual basis for any of these tinfoil hat claims.

tilapia2006 - 19 hours ago
You're either ignorant of our claims and arguments, or once again practicing the art of intentionally distracting from the issue. I have not claimed the COLB is forged. It is 100% authentic. But it is NOT the original long form birth certificate, no more so than a hand-written Bill of Sale is the same as a vehicle Title. It is merely a document that one could obtain as proof the baby was born alive and the information for that form is accepted de facto from the parent requesting the form. It has no attending physician or hospital information, and is not even accepted in Hawaii as a legitimate birth certificate. It's authentic all right - but not an authentic long form birth certificate, only an authentic "short form" certification of live birth. Stop dodging the issue and address why Obama does not want his original long form birth certificate revealed.

felkakarp - 19 hours ago
I did address it. You weren't paying attention.

tilapia2006 - 18 hours ago
No you didn't, and you know you didn't. And you still won't. Watch, even as you read this, you will be afraid to address it and will just respond with more distraction from the issue and maybe a few good non sequiturs (your entire house of cards) thrown in.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Well, since all the original comments disappeared for some reason, here they are again, as archived--

susan - 2 days ago
This is looking like the most idiotic and least transparent administration ever.

dandapper111 - 2 days ago
http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/11/22/obamas_born_conspiracy_obamas_bogus_birth_certificate_exposed!.thtml

The birth certificate posted on FatCheck and other various sites are forgeries.

jparchery02 - 2 days ago
there seams to be no problem releasing classifide info from Gitmo but you refuse to release your long form birth certificate, please dont bore me with the live birth certificate I have one of them and I was not born in Hawaii, instead you have hired 3 compleat law firms and spent millions to hide your B C, passport records and school records we are not all mindless school kids who think your our savior
WHERES THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ?

npkw - 2 days ago
I have viewed the Certificate of Live Birth online that people assume is verification. It is not a Birth Certificate. Any one of us can acquire a similar document just to verify we had a "live birth." It is not the actual birth certificate an attending physician signed. Our government officials well know this and should have long ago released the actual birth certificate (not Certificate of Live Birth). If nothing is wrong, why continue to hide it and spend over one million in legal fees, as they have so far, to "hide the original" Birth Certificate? Why has the Governor of Hawaii stated she "viewed" it, rather than release it? Are they simply buying time so as to perfect a fake one? To destroy travel and education records forever that prove something they want to hide? What is Transparency?

I never cease to be amazed that Americans do not think this as important. Americans no longer care for truth, they prefer to embrace what they "want to hear." I am surprised that any President would desire to hide his original records and be allowed to do so!

Travel, organizational affiliations, Birth and Educational records, of elected officials are to be open books. We elect these people and need to first know about their life, lest we elect an imposter. We have an American responsibility. This is fact,not rumor.

info - 1 day ago
There appears a concerted effort to vote down single payer. conservatives have invaded this web site and have registered on jun 1 and voted single payer actions listed on this web site. they appear organized. It does not appear enough that they have killed a doctor, now they want to kill single payer too. Also they have come and created bogus efforts to question the citizenship of our legitimately elected President.

susan - 1 day ago
"There appears a concerted effort to vote down single payer. conservatives have invaded this web site and have registered on jun 1 and voted single payer actions listed on this web site. they appear organized."

Single payer? Can I vote against that sham idea here too? Thanks for pointing it out - I will do that now too!

I HOPE we're getting organized! Idiots who think money grows on trees and that they can scam Americans with redistribution schemes will eventually awaken those who actually understand economics and know history! Single payer defies logic - it has not and will not work.

info - 1 day ago
There appears a concerted effort to vote down single payer. conservatives have invaded this web site and have registered on jun 1 and voted down single payer actions listed on this web site. They appear organized. It does not appear enough that they have killed a doctor, now they want to kill single payer too. Also they have come and created bogus efforts to question the citizenship of our legitimately elected President. The conservatives have INVADED this web site on June 1. Ban this user who created this bogus notion.

tilapia2006 - 1 day ago
So "info" - are you suggesting that I, as an American citizen, do not deserve the same right to be heard as you do, since I don't agree with you? Hate much? You can take you fascist ideology elsewhere. Whereas you feel validated in posting spurious, unsubstantiated claims ("legitimately elected President"), you also are so elitist that you believe my legitimate and factual concerns about the obvious birth certificate cover-up are merely "bogus" and I should be banned. Not only that, seeing as how you have no rational or cogent counter argument, you resort to weak-minded argumentum ad hominem and make libelous and derogatory statements like, "they have killed a doctor" in an attempt to lump all of your opponents together under an evil umbrella. That's weak - very weak, and you know it. Why don't you exercise some logic and reason, and then come back to post something of substance, rather than just throw a hissy fit over the fact that - gasp! - lots of people disagree with you. Word to the wise: Your communist mindset of "silence the opposition" will not bode well for you. It will only expose your true elitist intentions and awaken multitudes to the farce you try to pass off.

StrangeTruth - 1 day ago
TheObamaFile.com

The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com
for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials

This informative site presents the most historically accurate, legally correct and genuinely unbiased credible explanation of the eligibility issue I have found, following several months of studious searching for accurate clarification, of what I now regretfully regard as an illegal usurpation of the office of the President of the United States of America.

Obviously calling onto question the constitutional eligibility of a sitting president is a serious matter, however our president is not above the rule of law. The Constitution is our greatest protection from abusive government. Throughout the history of mankind, political power has frequently been seized irrespective of the will of the governed, often violently. Perhaps owing to our imperfect nature, totalitarianism has more often been the rule, rather than the exception.

Our Constitution as first envisioned and ultimately realized by the benefits of both pen and sword, was founded as a heart felt invention of necessity by men so deathly tired of oppression, that they determined despite any cost, to establish our Constitutional Republic. With the Constitution, our Founding Father's planted a seed in soil richly nourished in blood, that with similar courage United States citizens might forever more be able to exercise their God given inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in at least one free and just nation upon the face of the earth.

Respectfully, a Vet.

The Constitution still matters,
but only for as long as 'we the people, by continuing to support and defend it, say so!
The Constitution will protect the citizens for as long as the citizens protect the Constitution.

Please consider the following:
http://www.theobamafile.com

Especially this particular TheObamafile.com page:
http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

herself333 - 1 day ago
We want Obama's original birth certificate. Stop playing like he's shown it, he hasn't. Simple, show it.

tb1016 - 1 day ago
Get used to saying, "Heil, Obama!"..............

chad.laston - 1 day ago
There is absolutely no reason that people should still question this issue Mr. Obama. All of your records should be released. As a man with nothing to hide, as a man that has promised the most open administration there is no reason to not make these open to the public. When you decided to run for the president you made all aspects of your life public interest and your qualifications must be made public record. You cloud your own presidency and dishonor your service by helping keep the 'conspiracy' alive. Its situations like this that force a man to use logic and common sense to come to a conclusion and the conclusion that I come to is that there is something to hide. Prove us all wrong sir.

pepper4000 - 22 hours ago
America is beginning to see the truth. If Obama had nothing to hide, he would have produced the documents before the election. He needs to answer these questions once and for all. They are not going away. These questions are really starting to make sense to more and more people. Man up.

info - 22 hours ago
You Republiklan party cyberterrorists have the right to express your opinions, but you don't have the right as an organized group from say Frei Republik or some other Right Wingow forum to come to a government site and sabotage the site with hundreds of very similar topics about the xistence of the President's birth certificate. We realize why you're doing this, to obstruct government business. I would not find it surprising if your names haven't gotten sent to the FBI cyberterrorist units for placing hundreds of topics about Barack Obama's birth certificate. Most of you right wing zombies just registered today Jun 1 and have done cybervandalism and cyberterrorism. I don't want to see you go to GITMO. The government should send you Republiklan party members to Alcatraz instead while awaiting trial for cyberterrorism. Enjoy your freedom while you can, then off to Alcatraz with you right wing terrorists.

The GOPranos have created the climate for the killing of Dr. Tiller. They repeatedly called 4 an end to a legal medical procedure. Now their cyberterrorists have come to this opengov site to kill open discussion and flood this site with several hundreds of entries about the birth certificate of Barack Obama. Remove this above entry and ban the user who posted it.

tilapia2006 - 20 hours ago
Again, "info" - Take your communist ideology elsewhere. You obviously have no argument, hence the hate-filled name calling. Cyberterrorists? Please! Grow up kid. Calling people who disagree with you "cyberterrorists" doesn't automatically make it such. You've been reading too much Harry Potter. Did it ever occur to you, that we all have legitimate concerns about the birth certificate issue? Just because your view is the extremist minority view, doesn't mean that those of us expressing OUR concerns are invalid, or some sort of "cyber-vandalism" or "cyber-terrorism."

I'm surprised you're so adoring of Bush's fear-mongering tactics. It says volumes about you, that you want anyone who disagrees with you to be sent to imprisonment, constitution and due process be damned. Why can't you simply present a cogent argument for your position? You're just a trouble maker, with nothing intelligent to say. Like I said before, your communist ideology of "silence the opposition" just reveals the pathetic character you are. Rather than cherish American freedom and values, you prefer totalitarian rule where all who disagree with you are eliminated. You freakin Nazi. And no one is here to "obstruct government business." What an asinine and hyper-alarmist piece of hyperbolic drivel.

You have made no cogent argument for your viewpoint, no logical counterpoints, and have posited no realistic debate points. All you have done is demand that anyone who disagrees with you be banned and silenced, and since you have no rational thing to say you do nothing but throw out argumentum ad hominem and vacuous hate speech. Your intolerance and bigotry are profound. If you can't grow up and act like an adult, then just go back to your communist forums and leave this very important discussion to those of us (on both sides) who actually care about this country and having intelligent discussion. Now go ahead and get lost, okay?

darrelmulloy - 21 hours ago
So INFO, let's see if I got this right. If all of us right wing nuts are asking a legitimate question that has not been answered since the primary season, we are going to be subject to a terrorist investigation; is that right?

The media watchdogs were asleep all through the campaign season. This is not a new issue, it was brought up long ago and never answered. McCain's citizenship was questioned and vetted by the media, but Obama's was questioned but not vetted and even fought by every legal avenue to conceal. Those who quote the Snopes site or Factcheck fail to mention that those documents they verify are not the long form birth certificate. There is also the question of the passport used in 1980 to visit Pakistan and the concealment of school records. Inquiring minds want to know.

mail2me - 18 hours ago
President Obama rightly campaiged for openness and transparency in government and politics, shouting we need change from the rooftops.

He stated that he would be different from the Bush Republicans who were honest and open.

Since then he has spent hundreds of thousands of public donations to avoid showing his long form birth certificate to the people of the USA.

Until he shows his Long Form Birth certificate he comes across as a Liar and a fraud, hence the growing public agitation over the issue.
Its a matter of integrity and honestly over hypocrisy.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

What happened to all the comments? I have them all backed up and referenced to each comment author - should I post the archived comments?

tilapia2006 9 months ago

What happened to all the comments? I have them all backed up and referenced to each comment author - should I post the archived comments?

tilapia2006 9 months ago

No you didn't, and you know you didn't. And you still won't. Watch, even as you read this, you will be afraid to address it and will just respond with more distraction from the issue and maybe a few good non sequiturs (your entire house of cards) thrown in.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

karma123 stated: "I challenge you to provide one single shred of evidence that Obama was not born in Hawaii. You can't."

I challenge YOU to provide one single shred of evidence that Obama WAS born in Hawaii. You can't.

You're being ignorant okay. Literally, you making an argument from ignorance. You're asking me to prove a negative which is a logical fallacy in which it is claimed that the premise is true only because it has not been proven false. Your entire argument is illogical and foolish. The onus is upon Obama (and by extension his "Hawaii birth" supporters) to prove that he WAS born in Hawaii.

I'm not claiming that he was or wasn't born in Hawaii, therefore the onus is not on me, I'm only demanding that the assertion that he WAS, is proved by simply releasing the original long form birth certificate.

Your whole house of cards argument is built on a foundation of logical fallacy, whereas mine is simply asking for proof of the assertion.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

karma123 stated: "The burden of proof is NOT on Obama."

Well okay then ... at least now we know exactly where you stand on the constitution.

Let it hereby be known across the USA, that the constitutional requirement that a presidential candidate must be a NBC has been stricken from said document by karma123.

Geez, the ignorance ...

tilapia2006 9 months ago

karma123 stated: "The birthers use fear and smear tactics."

Really? Fear? Exactly where is this fear you speak of?

karma123 stated: "They report false information that proves to be not factual when investigated."

And what might that be? Seriously, I'm interested.

karma123 stated: "Obama was born in Hawaii and is a NBC."

Prove it.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

karma123: You're forgetting something - the burden of proof is upon Obama. We don't have to prove he's not a NBC. He, by constitutional requirement, has to prove that he is a natural born citizen.

And the sites you posted? Please, try harder than that. It's the same old talking points, and same old tactics of slander, mock and distract. Nothing new. And of course, nothing of substance.

Why don't you want to address the issue of why Obama has not released his original, official long form birth certificate? Afraid? No cogent counter argument? Why don't you want to address the issue of how every time someone tries to obtain Obama's school records or passport records via FOIA or otherwise, they are denied? Why would an honest transparent person hide such things?

What possible logical explanation do you have for a man, in the midst of a virulent controversy over his birth certificate, who refuses to put the controversy to rest by simply releasing the said document? If my citizenship was in question, I would put it to rest within 5 minutes by revealing my long form birth certificate. Are you suggesting that Obama is incapable of grasping this concept? And what does that say about his ability to lead? Come on Karma123, you're not fooling anybody.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

You're either ignorant of our claims and arguments, or once again practicing the art of intentionally distracting from the issue. I have not claimed the COLB is forged. It is 100% authentic. But it is NOT the original long form birth certificate, no more so than a hand-written Bill of Sale is the same as a vehicle Title. It is merely a document that one could obtain as proof the baby was born alive and the information for that form is accepted de facto from the parent requesting the form. It has no attending physician or hospital information, and is not even accepted in Hawaii as a legitimate birth certificate. It's authentic all right - but not an authentic long form birth certificate, only an authentic "short form" certification of live birth. Stop dodging the issue and address why Obama does not want his original long form birth certificate revealed.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Again, "info" - Take your communist ideology elsewhere. You obviously have no argument, hence the hate-filled name calling. Cyberterrorists? Please! Grow up kid. Calling people who disagree with you "cyberterrorists" doesn't automatically make it such. You've been reading too much Harry Potter. Did it ever occur to you, that we all have legitimate concerns about the birth certificate issue? Just because your view is the extremist minority view, doesn't mean that those of us expressing OUR concerns are invalid, or some sort of "cyber-vandalism" or "cyber-terrorism."

I'm surprised you're so adoring of Bush's fear-mongering tactics. It says volumes about you, that you want anyone who disagrees with you to be sent to imprisonment, constitution and due process be damned. Why can't you simply present a cogent argument for your position? You're just a trouble maker, with nothing intelligent to say. Like I said before, your communist ideology of "silence the opposition" just reveals the pathetic character you are. Rather than cherish American freedom and values, you prefer totalitarian rule where all who disagree with you are eliminated. You freakin Nazi. And no one is here to "obstruct government business." What an asinine and hyper-alarmist piece of hyperbolic drivel.

You have made no cogent argument for your viewpoint, no logical counterpoints, and have posited no realistic debate points. All you have done is demand that anyone who disagrees with you be banned and silenced, and since you have no rational thing to say you do nothing but throw out argumentum ad hominem and vacuous hate speech. Your intolerance and bigotry are profound. If you can't grow up and act like an adult, then just go back to your communist forums and leave this very important discussion to those of us (on both sides) who actually care about this country and having intelligent discussion. Now go ahead and get lost, okay?

tilapia2006 9 months ago

What does whether it's forged or not have to do with the issue?

tilapia2006 9 months ago

vipcottagellc: Okay, I can understand your core point of needing accuracy in history books - and I agree. However, unfortunately most black history claims are fraudulent and end up being bad examples. I think using that as a premise for desiring accuracy in history books begins a fatally flawed discussion that cannot establish the point. But otherwise, in regard to the general need for accuracy in history books (a la the Civil War, WWII, etc.) I do agree.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

vipcottagellc: How can you not be concerned about the patent info? It's public record, and if you can show the black invention is a myth via patent records, then isn't the truth more important than tickling some fancy? Including such black invention myths in the history books would MAKE them inaccurate. If you truly want accurate history books, then the last thing you should want is invention myths written into them.

Oh, and the "cowboy" term reference? - that's a myth too. The term cowboy has spanish origins. And blacks were rarely, if ever, used to tend the cattle in the American old west. Where are you getting your info from? You should probably ditch it as a source, as they are feeding you all sorts of fairy tales.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Well Karma123, if it's so cut and dry, and "birthers" are allegedly "not factual" then why doesn't Obama release his actual (long form) birth certificate? Does logic simply not make sense to you people? If it's so easy to prove, then prove it. If anyone questioned my citizenship, I could prove it in less than 5 minutes with my original long form birth certificate - and not have to spend over a million dollars in legal fees to hide my birth certificate. Seriously, use LOGIC and COMMON SENSE people. Geez!

tilapia2006 9 months ago

felkakarp: Have we ever had another president of such secretive, dubious and suspicious background and birthplace? Even McCain's citizenship eligibility was brought before hearing and confirmed. Are you suggesting we apply different rules for Obama?

Oh, and nice pace at trying to distract and divert from the real issue. I take it you've read Alinsky's book?

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Hmmm ... let me see ... you can't provide a single rational, logical or cogent counter argument to the Obama birth certificate cover-up, so you post sardonic nonsense in an attempt to distract from the issue. "Hey you! Don't look at the man behind the curtain! Look over here!"

tilapia2006 9 months ago

So "info" - are you suggesting that I, as an American citizen, do not deserve the same right to be heard as you do, since I don't agree with you? Hate much? You can take you fascist ideology elsewhere. Whereas you feel validated in posting spurious, unsubstantiated claims ("legitimately elected President"), you also are so elitist that you believe my legitimate and factual concerns about the obvious birth certificate cover-up are merely "bogus" and I should be banned. Not only that, seeing as how you have no rational or cogent counter argument, you resort to weak-minded argumentum ad hominem and make libelous and derogatory statements like, "they have killed a doctor" in an attempt to lump all of your opponents together under an evil umbrella. That's weak - very weak, and you know it. Why don't you exercise some logic and reason, and then come back to post something of substance, rather than just throw a hissy fit over the fact that - gasp! - lots of people disagree with you. Word to the wise: Your communist mindset of "silence the opposition" will not bode well for you. It will only expose your true elitist intentions and awaken multitudes to the farce you try to pass off.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

This is a joke, right?

tilapia2006 9 months ago

continued ...
- The Real McCoy - Elijah McCoy supposedly revolutionized industry in 1872 by inventing the first device to automatically oil machinery. Not true. The phrase "Real McCoy" supposedly arose to distinguish Elijah's inventions from cheap imitations? Not true. The oil cup, which automatically delivers a steady trickle of lubricant to machine parts while the machine is running, predates McCoy's career; a description of one appears in the May 6, 1848 issue of Scientific American. The automatic "displacement lubricator" for steam engines was developed in 1860 by John Ramsbottom of England, and notably improved in 1862 by James Roscoe of the same country. The "hydrostatic" lubricator originated no later than 1871. Variants of the phrase Real McCoy appear in Scottish literature dating back to at least 1856 — well before Elijah McCoy could have been involved.
- The brush for the street sweeper was not invented by a black person (Charles Brooks 1896), but in reality, Brooks' patent was for a modified version of a common type of street sweeper cart that had LONG been known, WITH a rotary brush that swept refuse onto an elevator belt and into a trash bin. In the United States, street sweepers started being patented in the 1840s, and by 1900 the Patent Office had issued about 300 patents for such machines.

It's one thing to desire historical accuracy in history books, but it's an entirely different thing to fabricate history in the name of historical accuracy.

tilapia2006 9 months ago

Here's the problem - those are lies. For instance:
- The Red Cross was not founded by a black person, but by Clara Barton.
- The traffic light was not invented by a black person (Garrett Morgan in 1923), but in reality, the first known traffic signal appeared in London in 1868 near the Houses of Parliament. Designed by JP Knight, it featured two semaphore arms and two gas lamps. The earliest electric traffic lights include Lester Wire's two-color version set up in Salt Lake City circa 1912, James Hoge's system (US patent #1,251,666) installed in Cleveland by the American Traffic Signal Company in 1914, and William Potts' 4-way red-yellow-green lights introduced in Detroit beginning in 1920. New York City traffic towers began flashing three-color signals also in 1920.
- The first heart surgery was not by a black person (Dr. Daniel Hale Williams in 1893), but in reality, Dr. Williams repaired a wound not in the heart muscle itself, but in the sac surrounding it, the pericardium. This operation was not the first of its type: Henry Dalton of St. Louis performed a nearly identical operation two years earlier, with the patient fully recovering. Decades before that, the Spaniard Francisco Romero carried out the first successful pericardial surgery of any type, incising the pericardium to drain fluid compressing the heart.
- The separation of blood plasma was not discovered by a black person (Charles Drew about 1940), but in reality, the possibility of using blood plasma for transfusion purposes was known at least since 1918, when English physician Gordon R. Ward suggested it in a medical journal. In the mid-1930s, John Elliott advanced the idea, emphasizing plasma's advantages in shelf life and donor-recipient compatibility, and in 1939 he and two colleagues reported having used stored plasma in 191 transfusions. (See historical notes on plasma use.) Charles Drew was not responsible for any breakthrough scientific or medical discovery; his main career achievement lay in supervising or co-supervising major programs for the collection and shipment of blood and plasma.
... to be continued.

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