carpenturr1

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker wrote:
And rejean? STFU. I'm seriou
=====================================
Take a hike moron, no one cares what you got to say that wants the facts to be revealed, you stfu

carpenturr1 9 months ago

kichman
Blackie knows what you point out, he is part fo the problem that wants the truth buried

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Only thing you are full of blackie is shiet

carpenturr1 9 months ago

If brains concerned you blackie, you would ask Sarah to give you some of hers

carpenturr1 9 months ago

What a hoot
Obama supporters acting like they are concerned about ethics.

hehaw

carpenturr1 9 months ago

No, the black idiot that trolls this site

csrbev writes:
"Black, I know you know this. You're trying to mislead people.."

carpenturr1
Of course we do, and no one believes the crook anyway, no one that is not here to lie for obama that is

csrbev

Carpenter, you mean no one believes the crook Obama?

carpenturr1 9 months ago

csrbev writes:
"Black, I know you know this. You're trying to mislead people.."

Of course we do, and no one believes the crook anyway, no one that is not here to lie for obama that is

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Aren't these obama supporters such massive hypocrites.

When it comes to Sarah, they actually act like they care about the law.

Such contemptible liars and hypocrites, they mock law by their contempt for the law

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The democrats have become so cynical with their hate they now abuse even the court system to bring false charges and one has to pay to fight.

Unlike the obama situation that he stonewalls and refuses to show his records, Sarah has opened them all anf of course found innocent of the lies falsely accused of by hate mongers

carpenturr1 9 months ago

No one ever heard of this charactor until about 3 years ago.

His owners play you people who support him like a banjo

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Not released to the public

Obama's records that are not released.

1. Occidental College records -- Not released
2. Columbia College records -- Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper -- 'not available'
4. Harvard College records -- Not released
5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released
6. Medical records -- Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- 'not available'
8. Law practice client list -- Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate - - Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published -- None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles -- None
13. Your Record of baptism-- Not released or 'not available'
14. Your Illinois State Senate records--'not available'

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Liar

carpenturr1 9 months ago

the evidence is being with held and you know it.

You people who place the "burden of proof" in the citizens all the while support the on-going cover-up of all his records are such hypocrites.

He has to be forced to show the records even though its already required under the law he release his public records to the public.

You make me sick

carpenturr1 9 months ago

We have criminal activity right from the Oval Office, and this is just a drop in the bucket of the crimes on-going against this nation

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The BC is an issue
Its a part of the over-all fraud of the obama, whose legal name is actually Barry Soetoro.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

electropig

You got it

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Anyone who refutes the evidentiary open and known facts is doing so willfully.

The obama is a fraud.

Evidence is his stonewalling refusal to not just show his BC, but every other public document about the man.

3 years ago no one had heard of this man, and today, no one really knows who he is.

He has his entire life story covered-up, not just the BC

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Wrong

A COLB is not a Birth Certificate.

Just because you want to believe in obama and you believe what you see on the internet will not make it factual.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

A COLB is not a birth certificate.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Yes
He is already dictating in areas way beyond his job description that is found in Article II, US Constitution.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleii.html

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Liar or not, he is a hypocrite with warning you and not saying a word to the biggest troll on this board.
blackmon

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Moderater

When does this guy get the warning for personal attacks?
blackmonrikker

He is all over this board with personal attacks, and you cannot miss it

carpenturr1 9 months ago

How to get rid of this sick man

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101291

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Obama must be removed, this man just does not seem to be right in the head.

Something new every day, one "crisis" after another and he is the one creating it, if one exists.

The man is mentally ill, said in all seriousness.

This man si showing he has no respect for law and order.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

dunstvangeet

You never addressed anything this thread is about.
Where o where is the bc.
You never addressed the history of the world or space exploration, evolution and 1st graders either.

Why not?

You are just here to kiss the obama *** is all

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You are a fool blackmon

Now you think you are a bible teacher.
he haw, what a moron

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Trolls allowed to comment

Internet thugs allowed to post here

Keyboard tough guys allowed to post here.

blackmon fits all categories for being an Obama supporter

carpenturr1 9 months ago

I really do not care who you like blackmon.

I already see you are a fool anyway

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikkerIf I was a liar, you would love me as I would be just like you.

I do not blame you for being the liar you are, you have no truth in you to give.

All you know is lies, deceit and dishonesty and love your lies.

I pity you, I do not dislike you

carpenturr1 9 months ago

There will either be 4 years and less for the Obamination of America, or there will be no America.

This man is a fraud and an impostor, backed by Marxist Globalists.

He has already broken more laws than Jessie James ever broke

carpenturr1 9 months ago

"Thou protests too much "

Thou are a troll on this board.

Who cares what thous thinks or posts, not me.

Have at it o foolish man, blackmonrikker.

You have proven a nasty little troll all over this board.

And proof there is no moderation against yoru hate and intolerance, along with disrespect for this board itself.

Mock on troll, no one cares

carpenturr1 9 months ago

CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT AGAINST PRESIDENT BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA FOR FRAUDULENT CONCEALMENT OF MATERIAL FACTS THAT HE ALLEGEDLY HAS A DUTY TO PROVIDE VOTERS BECAUSE HIS “CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH” SHOWS THIS LEGAL NOTICE IN TINY PRINT IN THE LOWER RIGHT HAND CORNER, “[HRS 338-13(b), 338-19].

http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?p=898

Its Grooooooowing

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Have at it, lol

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Janice Okubo

"I, and Dr. Alvin Onaka have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

"the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record"

§338-18

"unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records"

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.HTM

"the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record"

"unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records"

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Hawaiian Law states it clearly.

Vital records (birth, death, marriage, and divorce certificates) for events that occurred in Hawaii are received and preserved by the Office of Health Status Monitoring, a unit of the Department of Health. In Hawaii, access to vital records is restricted by statute (HRS §338-18).

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/index.html

§338-18 Disclosure of records. (a) To protect the integrity of vital statistics records, to ensure their proper use, and to ensure the efficient and proper administration of the vital statistics system, it shall be unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records, or to copy or issue a copy of all or part of any such record, except as authorized by this part or by rules adopted by the department of health.

(b) The department shall not permit inspection of public health statistics records, or issue a certified copy of any such record or part thereof, unless it is satisfied that the applicant has a direct and tangible interest in the record. The following persons shall be considered to have a direct and tangible interest in a public health statistics record:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrs2006/Vol06_Ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0018.HTM

"unlawful for any person to permit inspection of, or to disclose information contained in vital statistics records"

unlawful for any person...to disclose information contained in vital statistics records

Will the law be respected is the only question.

HAWAIIAN LAW:

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.
see: http://is.gd/5DYB

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Better saying

"bigger they are, the harder they fall"

carpenturr1 9 months ago

For a person who admire's Obama to mock anyone else is funny

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Janice Okubo

"I, and Dr. Alvin Onaka have personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

Is named in a new law suit.

Andy Martin
"With due respect, public officials are not free to manipulate records under their control, playing cat-and-mouse with the public by discussing the document while saying 'I can see it but you can't.' Such behavior constituted a waiver under Hawaii law," he wrote.

She broke the law when she looked at a sealed document and then commented on it in public.

Hawaiian law forbids this and she committed a crime by her comments and holding herself as above the law to look at sealed records and then refuse to release them to the public.

quote:

WND Exclusive BORN IN THE USA?
New bid to unseal Obama's birth certificate
Challenge claims Hawaii waived privacy by talking about document
Posted: May 28, 2009
11:50 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2009 WorldNetDaily

Andy Martin

A Chicago activist who has pursued a challenge to Barack Obama's eligibility to be president since before the 2008 election is asking an appeals court in Hawaii to order the release of the president's original birth certificate, explaining that state officials have waived their ability to claim any further it is a private document.

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=99437

There is no stopping the search for truth.

In fact this subject is uniting millions of Americans who are beginning to take notice.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You will have to silently admit it to yourself even if you have no honesty on an open board, the truth wins.

Winning is just a matter of being honest, so winning is not something you will ever know blackmonrikker

Obama is a fraud and I have no doubts about it

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Nice to see the reaching to come up with justifying a man everyone is becoming aware is not eligible for the Oval Office.

Keep up the good work

carpenturr1 9 months ago

luvwith

To shorten your long winded blah blah blah, just say no to your hate for American Citizens

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Twitchy
Why you so full of hate and anger?

You have a bad childhood?

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You failed to make any point dunstvangeet .

Everyone who is on the internet can find the information you put up, its quite easy to do it like you did.

You would not want to come across as this is hard to find info now would you?

No one has refuted any of the information you copy and pasted from wicki.

It's not in contention, disagreement or debate, so stop acting as if it is.

Annenberg has been used for politics of the left for sure, regardless who founded it.

No one will find any conservative politics this group has backed as they have socialistic programs.

Like I said, they hired on both Obama and Ayers.
So they are definitly not a 'republican' organization.

I do not care who hired Annenberg in the 1970's and 80's.

Annenberg is not a credible site for information about Obama.

Other than he worked there and still has connections.

Now you can dance your dance and claim Obama and Ayers are republicans too cause they both worked for that left of center organization.

Here is a little info for you to educate yourself.

"The ANNENBERG Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania is the organization behind the FactCheck.org website that is being consulted OFTEN by voters and media personalities alike to help them form opinions on the “truthfulness” of the claims being made by the McCain and Obama political ads as well as statements made on the Campaign Trail and in Presidential and Vice Presidential debates.

Kathleen Hall Jamieson, Ph.D. is the Director of the ANNENBERG Public Policy Center at the University of Pennsylvania which is the organization BEHIND the FactCheck.org “truthfulness” website.

Dr. Jamieson's newest book entitled “Echo Chamber: Rush Limbaugh and the Conservative Media Establishment” is a MAJOR HIT PIECE against the Conservative voices in the media on television, radio, and in print. View the book’s Table of Contents: http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/echochamber/

In Dr. Jamieson’s biography on the APPC website, she states that during the 2004 general election she regularly appeared on “NOW With Bill Moyers” and “The NewsHour,” and throughout the 2008 campaign is appearing regularly on “Bill Moyers Journal.” http://www.annenbergpublicpolicycenter.org/Bio.aspx?myUsername=kjamieson"

Republican?
Hardy ha ha

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Wow, just look at the insane frenzied frothing of the mouth over a Bill Board that has a question on it.

Just think, these people being mentally sick, some have positions of power in government.

Never in my life have I seen such a frothing of the mouth over as Bill Board

carpenturr1 9 months ago

dunstvangeet

You are a confused man sir.

You found one article on wnd.com you like is ok with me.

Here is more for you to read on the totally interesting subject of an internet COLB.

From wnd.com as well.

wnd.com has been my homepage for about 5 years..give or take a year, forgot when I found it to be the best source for news stories the so called MSM never even mentions.

Here ya go my friend, get educated if you care for education in this matter.

Do a search on wnd.com for birth certificate and find out how much information that site has provided you have missed.

Example:

Page Search Results: Displaying 1 thru 10 of 469. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... NEXT >
Title Publish Date Author Search Score
Gibbs gets 2nd shot at eligibility question
But he doesn't answer attorney's query about piles of sealed records
June 15, 2009 by Unruh, Bob 315
Where's the birth certificate?
Exclusive: Joseph Farah announces concerned citizens are winning eligibility battle
June 15, 2009 by Farah, Joseph 452
Start your own eligibility billboard campaign
Yard signs that ask: 'Where's the birth certificate?'
June 14, 2009 516
How to relieve us of 'right-wing' craziness

June 13, 2009 399
Grassroots sign onto eligibility billboard campaign
Washington state 'Where's The Birth Certificate' sign appears
June 12, 2009 335
Appeal promised in eligibility lawsuit
Accuses Obama of fraudulently serving as senator
June 12, 2009 by Unruh, Bob 203
Where is Obama's birth certificate?
D. Golden Lee uses billboard company examples to rip Denver Post over advertisement
June 12, 2009 733
Appeal promised of eligibility lawsuit
Accuses Obama of fraudulently serving as senator
June 12, 2009 by Unruh, Bob 203
Dan Rather wannabe

June 12, 2009 574
Trifecta: 3rd media outfit bans Obama eligibility ads
Clear Channel joins CBS, Lamar in dissing constitutional question
June 11, 2009 319
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.search&keywords=birth+certificate&search_WND.x=8&search_WND.y=7

dunstvangeet writes:

But please, present me with whatever pathetic evidence that you have.

Between me and you, we both know there is no clue you will examine and follow up on to find any evidence.
You do not want to see any evidence the circumstantial evidence points to very clearly.

You are pathetic in your own poor lack of information and do not want any information that exposes the fraud Obama is.

You make me feel very deep sorrow for your lack of interest in being educated about this fraudulent little man, Obama.

dunstvangeet writes:
Oh, and Annenberg is run by REPUBLICANS! I can see why you wouldn't trust REPUBLICANS!

More lack of education on your part.

You not know Obama worked for this organization?
You saying Obama is a republican?
Not that I care, I do not like either political parties.

Both are destroying this nation.

Ayers worked for this organization, hardly a republican is he.

The line is invisible between many democrats and republicans, so its meaningless to call Annenberg a republican organization.

If you did not lack education about politics, philanthropy, Obama, birth certificates, COLB's, wnd.com etc. you would not be here displaying such ignorance though.

Please do not be so pathetic and get educated about the real world

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Is there anything this admin is not causing problems with?

In 5 months he has quadrupled the national debt and is daily creating more and more problems.

This man needs to be seen by mental health experts, sadly though it be.

And I am serious, he is delusional

carpenturr1 9 months ago

What is this BS anyway

Tsars?

This moron thinks this is Russia

carpenturr1 9 months ago

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html is a leftist political agenda site.

Annenberg Foundation sponsers it, and Obama worked there.

Everything Obama says has an expiration date on it, as its rotten lies as soon as it leaves his mouth.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Sure scared of Rush aren't they.

Want to see civil war, just try and stop freedom of speech with false charges.

This is a line even democrats will not cross over to support

carpenturr1 9 months ago

apugh96
I agree with your post as its rather plain we have the Communist Party in full support of Obama and his policies, along with his appointment to the Supreme Court, another Communist Party endorsement of Sonia Sototmayor.

Check it out
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101158
"Communist Party backs confirmation for Supreme Court"

But for most Americans, these are just words that do not have any meaning for them as they cannot believe the gigantic fraud going on is serious.

We must focus on an act, a deed to show the fraud Obama represents and nothing is better than to expose his lies concerning his eligibility for the Office of President.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The Courts are closed to this question.

They refuse to make a decision other than "we will not listen to anyone who questions Obama"

Screw the people and the law is all they have said so far

carpenturr1 9 months ago

This is no longer a democrat or republican debate.

Its now a medical issue, seriously.

We now have a mentally ill person sitting in the Oval Office who is driven by a frenzy to save the world, seeing crisis everywhere he looks and makes it worse by every action.

If these anti"birfers" really cared for Obama, they would stop aiding his delusions and get him help.

I am serious, this man has some very deep emotional and psychological problems.

The man needs help that only mental health experts (or God) can give

carpenturr1 9 months ago

How small minded can you all get?

This is indicative of obstructionism, stonewalling and will never stop the desire for tansparency from Obama, not of you kool-aide drinkers.

Why Is This Idea Important?
blackmonrikker writes:
Birthers Need to know the whole legal story behind their movement.

The only thing behind this "movement" is where is the Birth Certificate?

Even you kool-aide drinkers should be able to get it

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The COLB is a legal document.

Lots of questions arose when it first appeared on the internet about its authenticity.

No one was knowledgeable of the laws of Hawaii that issued such documents.

After learning Hawaii does issue such documents for persons born out of the State of Hawaii, the issue of its authenticity became moot, unimportant to the question about his place of birth.

This very document has never been shown for verification in a real process, but its meaningless anyway.

The issue that matters can only be ascertained for a Birth Certificate.

A Birth Certificate shows the weight and length of the new born.

Along with the Hospital and Doctor's name.

Just the normal everyday information all are accustomed to providing in many situations for documenting who we are.

The refusal to show such simple information points out guilt and lies coming from such actions.

It is not normal to spend about a million dollars to keep from showing such a routine document as a Birth Certificate.

The refusal to show it proves guilt.

There can be no doubt Obama is not eligible by his own admission in refusal to show such everyday information.

We have a fraud in the White House folks

carpenturr1 9 months ago

New thread for anti"birfer" trolls

carpenturr1 9 months ago

dan
Look beneath the "Post New Comment" before you write anything new.

There is a box that is checked to receive notification of email.

1. Click "Post New Comment"

2. Look below the space to comment.

3. Unclick the box to receiive email notifications

carpenturr1 9 months ago

bs

carpenturr1 9 months ago

If true, we all owe Linda a thank you

carpenturr1 9 months ago

yeah_happy_girl

Thanks for that link

When a voice is heard and promoted as the "world health organization" calling "Swine Flu Pandemic with WHO declaring the ...non-lethal, bio-engineered, weaponized H1N1 Swine Flu a “Level 6 Pandemic”

Its about control.
And not going to work out for them and their delusions, maybe a short time, but will not last as unsustainable

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Notify me via Email when someone responds or action is taken on this Topic/Idea

Has a check mark in "Post New Comment" in every thread.

Uncheck it

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The Court has barred American Citizens from getting any justice in an honest and very important question surround Obama and will never go away.

Is he eligible for the Office of President.

The circumstantial evidence shows he is a fraud.

When the Court takes itself OUT of the place to discover and try the facts, then the COURT ROOM of PUBLIC OPINION will decide this issue anyway.

More and more Americans are learning the facts and are seeing the FRAUD this man Obama and his supporters in the media and government are HIDING

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The Court of Public opinion is going to decide this simply because the people have been denied access to the Legal System.

Every person who looks at all the problems are asking the very same questions and see we are being stonewalled

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The man was anti abortion, he was mentally ill.
He should be tried for murder.

End of story

carpenturr1 9 months ago

creeksneakers2
Obama was not president when his birth was recorded.
=========================================

?

If the BC he had placed on the internet is valid and shows the truth, there is no reason to seal the original

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The fanaticism and extremism, frenzied fighting the obama supporters will go to for asking for records that should be public anyway.

Imagine what these people are going to be like if asked something hard

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Worth repeating

Look this site over and read the posts from this guy

blackmonrikker

He is all over this board and here constantly using insults at citizens.
he is allowed to troll the board

This thread has served a purpose for the troll, it took his time away from trolling serious issue threads.

Too bad he cannot be locked into just trolling this thread

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You cannot out date wisdom

The electoral college comes from minds way above the little people of today who would choose mob rule over rule of law

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Everyone can look back and will see Berg will be the shot heard around the world when the truth come out about all the fraud being perpetrated on this nation today.

Look at these who support the obama.

The make knuckle dragging cavemen look like renaissance men.

the obama will be exposed, mark it down

carpenturr1 9 months ago

So you recommend everyone just lay down and give up huh.

Not happening brother, some of us are going to fight against this fraud in the WH

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Do not drink maam.
Just making a point that if the Obama supporters want this sort of threads here, this is what this board is designed for by them.

Nothing but a place to insult people, as we see it is not about transparency

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker has a pissant sized boot and an elephant sized mouth.

A troll

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You are not only a troll, blackmonrikker, you are an extremist at it, a fanatic at it, an insane frenzy grips you to troll this site and attack citizens.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

He just cannot stand any debate here

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Poor baby

carpenturr1 9 months ago

No

carpenturr1 9 months ago

creeksneakers2 writes:
carpenturr:

Its not fraud for Hawaii to issue a birth certificate to someone who was not born in Hawaii. In fact, your link shows that.
=========================================

Exactly right

======================================
creeksneakers2 writes:
The news certificate Hawaii issued would be an official state birth certificate, but it would list the out of state place where the birth occured under place of birth. It would not fraudulently name Hawaii as the place of birth if that wasn't true. Do you see the difference?
=====================================

You are now making gigantic assumptions about facts not in evidence.

The document on the web has not been certified by anyone but by some friends of Obama.

If that document tells the truth and the whole truth, then why not show it to any Official, be it the Court or anyone and have it verified as authentic.

Why spend upwards of a million dollars instead of just handing that very document over to the Court?

He refused to answer the 30 days to have done this in both the Philidelphia Case and the Supreme Court Case that went to Justice Seuter.

========================================
creeksneakers2 writes:

Suppose Delaware allowed anybody from any state to get a Delaware driver's license. Say you are from 2104 Birther Street in Lexington, Kentucky. Delaware might issue you a valid drivers license for driving in Delaware, but your true address would be listed. They would not fraudulently make up a place in Delaware for you to use as your address.
======================================

Come on

This is silly

We are talking about the man who is the 43rd man (not 44th) to sit in the Oval Office out of millions of people who all have drivers licence.

Get real

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Just got back and seen this
================================================
lmeditato wrote:
Source, carpenturr1, source.

============================================

What?
I gave the link for the law, what you need son?

=============================================
lmeditato wrote:

Or if you don't have a primary source, I want to know who told you.
=============================
Huh?
What are you going on about?
You are not making any sense
Obama is the primary source that inspires the questions.
Obama's stonewalling and hiding all his records is what is the source of the questions.

Anyone who is not trying to aide a cover-up knows Obama and his actions are the very source for the questions.
=============================================

lmeditato wrote:
Basically, I've seen a lot of crazy conspiracy theories that are being spread via chain emails and talk radio. Prove to me that this isn't the case with your information.
========================================

So have we all.
You seem to be very confused here too.

We are here asking for transparency in government and the Obama admin live up to its billing.

Get focused lmeditato, ask Obama why he is hiding all his records, not just the BC.

lmeditato, Obama is the subject, not the questioneers, capiche?

==============================================

lmeditato wrote:
How do you know that her certification is identical? How do you know that what "What Fukino said about what is there can also be said about Maya's"? Have you seen both? Or have you been told all this by someone who is, realistically, just as capable and willing to manipulate you as Obama is?
===========================================

Its explained in what I already have shown.

You give me the feeling you are not interested in uncovering any information about Obama and are content to see him get by with stonewalling normal routine everyday questions.

Show us your records, birth, school, passport and adoption with the name change

carpenturr1 9 months ago

It was not fraud, its perfectly legal

READ IT

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State.

The only fraud would be to have been born outside of Hawaii and had used this law for a COLB and then use that document to keep the truth buried.

Which is what I believe is happening

carpenturr1 9 months ago

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.HTM

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

carpenturr1 9 months ago

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/hawnbirth.html

Any person to whom a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth has been issued may submit a request to amend an entry, including a legal change of name, on an existing Certificate. A request to amend a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth will, however, be considered to be and treated as an application with the Department of Health for registration of a late certificate of birth in current use, unless a standard birth certificate for that person already exists in the vital records of the Department of Health. Should there be a situation of dual registration, the requested amendment will be made to the standard birth certificate on file if the required documentary evidence in support of the amendment has been submitted and evaluated to be adequate.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/hawnbirth.html

Who is Eligible to Apply for the Issuance of a Late Birth Certificate in Lieu of a Certificate of Hawaiian Birth?

The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program was established in 1911, during the territorial era, to register a person born in Hawaii who was one year old or older and whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii. The Certificate of Hawaiian Birth Program was terminated in 1972, during the statehood era.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

lmeditato
Obama's sister Maya was born in Jakarta Indonesia.
She has an identical certification that she was born in Hawaii just like the one Obama used on the internet.
(made public and now refuses to show it)

What Fukino said about what is there can also be said about Maya's.

Even though Maya is known to have been born in Jakarta Indonesia.

It has to do with the laws of the State of Hawaii that allowed this sort of certification.

But is still not the original that Fukino honestly can say is on record, it is.

This is not disputed.

What is disputed is the claim she said he was born in Hawaii or the internet document is authentic

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Fukino does NOT say.

She does not say that the image of a COLB published by Obama on his “Smears” site is accurate.

She only verifies that Hawaii has Obama’s "original birth certificate."

She never said he was born in Hawaii.

She only verifies that Hawaii has Obama’s "original birth certificate."

She only verifies that Hawaii has Obama’s "original birth certificate."

His sister Maya, who was born in Jakarta Indonesia has one exactly like the one on the internet

carpenturr1 9 months ago

100 percent untrue, this is not what was said, but it shows the willfulness to distort what was said to keep the truth buried as long as possible.
===============================================

lmeditato writes:
The Conservative (and it still is, until Sotomayor is confirmed) Supreme Court have already said that they will not hear the Birth Certificate case because Hawaii Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino and the state's registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have checked health department records and have determined there's no doubt Obama was born in Hawaii.
===========================================

100 percent blatant lie

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You are an extremely angry poster brendanm43023
I gave no reason for you to come on this thread and attack me with one accusation after another as you are doing.

I never have shown any personal disrespect for obama.

But you are so full of hate you demonstrate the very attitude you accuse

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Look here:
====================================================================

brendanm43023 writes:
If you condemn so-called "rude" posters, you can't then support much more offensive posters. And you are basing your "missing Obama" bullsh*t off of an online post by Holocaust Museum terrorist James von Brunn, which he posted at racist wingnut sites like FreeRepublic. You should be ashamed, and I am disgusted with you.
=========================================================================

Everything but the subject.
Hateful as it gets

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Look here, hate speech and rude posts from obama supporters.

===========================================================================

brendanm43023 wrote:

So you're nothing but a pathetic hypocrite and liar. I'm shocked.
=================================================================

I ask for civility and this is what you get here on this board from the obama supporters. Hate

You're
Flagged - Thank You.

Not that I believe the "moderator" will remove your hateful personal attack, but I flagged it anyway

carpenturr1 9 months ago

brendanm43023 writes:

I'm willing to give you the benefit of a doubt, but I am curious as to why you didn't specifically condemn the extremely offensive, paranoid, and often blatantly racist posts which are most often the target of deletion.
==================================================================================

I am not the moderator.

I cannot do anything about what anyone here posts.

You are here to do what?
Support trolls and rude posts if they are from obama supporters?

That is how you come across no matter what the truth may be.

Why are you justifying rude posts on one side?

I would like to see it all stop and this board actually be a good place to have a civil discussion for some really troubling
problems.

Like all the records of obama, its like the man never existed until he ran for office

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Osama Obama, easy slip to make as both are on all's minds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkZaXrhq9eY&feature=related

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Let me quote Senator Ted Kennedy

(he is not my friend, either)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APx2YJ-_jos

carpenturr1 9 months ago

brendanm43023

You do not know me, nor my friends.

The rudeness is out of order from anyone, and none are my "friends" and your accusation is rude.

I am willing to make you a bet though.

That post will be removed but not any of the rude posts from this troll blackmonrikker

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Wrong

evreport writes:

"There was no US travel ban to Pakistan in 1981."

============================================

Read the thread, I have shown the proof it had been banned or at the very least warned against travel there.

Americans were targeted for murder in Pakistan, just not muslims.

Pakistan is still on the warning list, read it yourself.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3453.htm#relations

To this very day Pakistan is listed as a country with warnings against travel there by Americans.

Travel Warnings are issued to describe long-term, protracted conditions that make a country dangerous or unstable. A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff. The countries listed below meet those criteria.

http://travel.state.gov/travel
/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

Mali 06/02/2009
Chad 06/02/2009
Nepal 05/22/2009
Lebanon 05/13/2009
Yemen 04/24/2009
Georgia 04/09/2009
Sudan 04/08/2009
Central African Republic 04/01/2009
Colombia 03/25/2009
Madagascar 03/17/2009
Saudi Arabia 03/04/2009
Algeria 03/04/2009
Pakistan 02/25/2009

Read it here:
http://travel.state.gov/travel
/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

Read it here:
http://travel.state.gov/travel
/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

Read it here:
http://travel.state.gov/travel
/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

Read it here:
http://travel.state.gov/travel
/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Correction:

Look this site over and read the posts from this guy

blackmonrikker

He is all over this board and here constantly using insults at citizens.
he is allowed to troll the board all the while anyone who brings information and questions that demand an answer from this government gets removed

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Look this site over and read the posts from this guy

blackmonrikker

He is all over this board and here constantly using insults at citizens.
he is allowed to troll the board all the while anyone who brings information and questions that demand an answer from thsi government bets removed

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Gives me great pleasure to see my posts removed and the trolls stay.

Its confirmation of the crimes of fraud being committed by this admin

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Been through this before

============================================

creeksneakers2 wrote:
Carpenturr:

Both Obama and McCain provided birth certificates, although there was never any good reason in Obama's case to believe he wasn't a natural born citizen.
======================================

Not true and we all know its not true.

McCains BC has the information of the Doctor, the Hospital and where he was born.

Obama's does not tell us the Doctor or the Hospital because he was not born in Hawaii, evidently.

His sister Maya was born in Jakarta Indonesia and she has the idential certificate showing she was born in Hawaii as obama had placed on the internet

carpenturr1 9 months ago

My posts that are about information and questioning of obama, are being removed.

This is proof they want this hidden and that I make them nervous with simple honest information and questions.

And the black man who is a racist even by his own screen name, besides being a rude troll at the posters stays

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Posted By : citar

Interesting that they felt it necessary to consider McCain's eligibility and when he was asked, he at once provided his documents. Wonder why they didn't follow the same process with Obama.

================================================

Not only interesting, THEY INVESTIGATED IT, AND MOCK EVEN ASKING FOR AN INVESTIGATION OF OBAMA

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You are a troll and because you support obama, you are part of the fraud, so you will not be stopped from trolling and attacking posters.

You are a very good representative of this administration.

A troll, a liar, a low life

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Notice all my posts are removed all the while the troll blackmambo is all over the board.

This site is for propagandists, liars and trolls who support the obama.

Borrowed from a friend, a retired geek.

Obama and 'The Polishing of the Turds'

The legacy of Barack Obama will be written in History as 'The Polishing of the Turds'.

The expression (polishing turds) is used mostly in the Software Industry and means to make a piece of poorly written and virtually unfixable software appear to function by giving it a 'Smart' and Pleasant user interface.

You may have noticed that Barack Obama uses the word 'Solve' quite often.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Education crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Economy crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Islamic Terrorist crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Health Care crisis.

Obama uses his 'Toothy Smile' and 'Teleprompter Words', in an attempt to 'Polish Turds' that have never worked or never will.

Totalitarian Indoctrination of children in Government Schools, like the Vladimir Lenin 'Turd', “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik (Marxist/Communist) forever”, is 'Shined Up' and called 'Social Justice'.

Nationalizations of Major American Industries, is 'Shined Up' from the Marxist/Socialist 'Turd' and called 'Saving and Creating Jobs'.

The 'Turd' of Islamic Jihad (which promises death and destruction), is 'Shined Up' and called 'Mutual Acceptance' and 'Working Together'.

The 'Socialized Health Care Turd' is 'Shined Up' and called 'ObamaCare for All'.

When Barack Obama asks his followers, 'Will You Polish these Turds' - they Chant in unison 'Yes We Can'.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Borrowed from a friend, a retired geek.

Obama and 'The Polishing of the Turds'

The legacy of Barack Obama will be written in History as 'The Polishing of the Turds'.

The expression (polishing turds) is used mostly in the Software Industry and means to make a piece of poorly written and virtually unfixable software appear to function by giving it a 'Smart' and Pleasant user interface.

You may have noticed that Barack Obama uses the word 'Solve' quite often.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Education crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Economy crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Islamic Terrorist crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Health Care crisis.

Obama uses his 'Toothy Smile' and 'Teleprompter Words', in an attempt to 'Polish Turds' that have never worked or never will.

Totalitarian Indoctrination of children in Government Schools, like the Vladimir Lenin 'Turd', “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik (Marxist/Communist) forever”, is 'Shined Up' and called 'Social Justice'.

Nationalizations of Major American Industries, is 'Shined Up' from the Marxist/Socialist 'Turd' and called 'Saving and Creating Jobs'.

The 'Turd' of Islamic Jihad (which promises death and destruction), is 'Shined Up' and called 'Mutual Acceptance' and 'Working Together'.

The 'Socialized Health Care Turd' is 'Shined Up' and called 'ObamaCare for All'.

When Barack Obama asks his followers, 'Will You Polish these Turds' - they Chant in unison 'Yes We Can'.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Borrowed from a friend, a retired geek.

Obama and 'The Polishing of the Turds'

The legacy of Barack Obama will be written in History as 'The Polishing of the Turds'.

The expression (polishing turds) is used mostly in the Software Industry and means to make a piece of poorly written and virtually unfixable software appear to function by giving it a 'Smart' and Pleasant user interface.

You may have noticed that Barack Obama uses the word 'Solve' quite often.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Education crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Economy crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Islamic Terrorist crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Health Care crisis.

Obama uses his 'Toothy Smile' and 'Teleprompter Words', in an attempt to 'Polish Turds' that have never worked or never will.

Totalitarian Indoctrination of children in Government Schools, like the Vladimir Lenin 'Turd', “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik (Marxist/Communist) forever”, is 'Shined Up' and called 'Social Justice'.

Nationalizations of Major American Industries, is 'Shined Up' from the Marxist/Socialist 'Turd' and called 'Saving and Creating Jobs'.

The 'Turd' of Islamic Jihad (which promises death and destruction), is 'Shined Up' and called 'Mutual Acceptance' and 'Working Together'.

The 'Socialized Health Care Turd' is 'Shined Up' and called 'ObamaCare for All'.

When Barack Obama asks his followers, 'Will You Polish these Turds' - they Chant in unison 'Yes We Can'.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Borrowed from a friend, a retired geek.

Obama and 'The Polishing of the Turds'

The legacy of Barack Obama will be written in History as 'The Polishing of the Turds'.

The expression (polishing turds) is used mostly in the Software Industry and means to make a piece of poorly written and virtually unfixable software appear to function by giving it a 'Smart' and Pleasant user interface.

You may have noticed that Barack Obama uses the word 'Solve' quite often.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Education crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Economy crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Islamic Terrorist crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Health Care crisis.

Obama uses his 'Toothy Smile' and 'Teleprompter Words', in an attempt to 'Polish Turds' that have never worked or never will.

Totalitarian Indoctrination of children in Government Schools, like the Vladimir Lenin 'Turd', “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik (Marxist/Communist) forever”, is 'Shined Up' and called 'Social Justice'.

Nationalizations of Major American Industries, is 'Shined Up' from the Marxist/Socialist 'Turd' and called 'Saving and Creating Jobs'.

The 'Turd' of Islamic Jihad (which promises death and destruction), is 'Shined Up' and called 'Mutual Acceptance' and 'Working Together'.

The 'Socialized Health Care Turd' is 'Shined Up' and called 'ObamaCare for All'.

When Barack Obama asks his followers, 'Will You Polish these Turds' - they Chant in unison 'Yes We Can'.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Borrowed from a friend, a retired geek.

Obama and 'The Polishing of the Turds'

The legacy of Barack Obama will be written in History as 'The Polishing of the Turds'.

The expression (polishing turds) is used mostly in the Software Industry and means to make a piece of poorly written and virtually unfixable software appear to function by giving it a 'Smart' and Pleasant user interface.

You may have noticed that Barack Obama uses the word 'Solve' quite often.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Education crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Economy crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Islamic Terrorist crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Health Care crisis.

Obama uses his 'Toothy Smile' and 'Teleprompter Words', in an attempt to 'Polish Turds' that have never worked or never will.

Totalitarian Indoctrination of children in Government Schools, like the Vladimir Lenin 'Turd', “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik (Marxist/Communist) forever”, is 'Shined Up' and called 'Social Justice'.

Nationalizations of Major American Industries, is 'Shined Up' from the Marxist/Socialist 'Turd' and called 'Saving and Creating Jobs'.

The 'Turd' of Islamic Jihad (which promises death and destruction), is 'Shined Up' and called 'Mutual Acceptance' and 'Working Together'.

The 'Socialized Health Care Turd' is 'Shined Up' and called 'ObamaCare for All'.

When Barack Obama asks his followers, 'Will You Polish these Turds' - they Chant in unison 'Yes We Can'.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Borrowed from a friend, a retired geek.

Obama and 'The Polishing of the Turds'

The legacy of Barack Obama will be written in History as 'The Polishing of the Turds'.

The expression (polishing turds) is used mostly in the Software Industry and means to make a piece of poorly written and virtually unfixable software appear to function by giving it a 'Smart' and Pleasant user interface.

You may have noticed that Barack Obama uses the word 'Solve' quite often.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Education crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Economy crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Islamic Terrorist crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Health Care crisis.

Obama uses his 'Toothy Smile' and 'Teleprompter Words', in an attempt to 'Polish Turds' that have never worked or never will.

Totalitarian Indoctrination of children in Government Schools, like the Vladimir Lenin 'Turd', “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik (Marxist/Communist) forever”, is 'Shined Up' and called 'Social Justice'.

Nationalizations of Major American Industries, is 'Shined Up' from the Marxist/Socialist 'Turd' and called 'Saving and Creating Jobs'.

The 'Turd' of Islamic Jihad (which promises death and destruction), is 'Shined Up' and called 'Mutual Acceptance' and 'Working Together'.

The 'Socialized Health Care Turd' is 'Shined Up' and called 'ObamaCare for All'.

When Barack Obama asks his followers, 'Will You Polish these Turds' - they Chant in unison 'Yes We Can'.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Borrowed from a friend, a retired geek.

Obama and 'The Polishing of the Turds'

The legacy of Barack Obama will be written in History as 'The Polishing of the Turds'.

The expression (polishing turds) is used mostly in the Software Industry and means to make a piece of poorly written and virtually unfixable software appear to function by giving it a 'Smart' and Pleasant user interface.

You may have noticed that Barack Obama uses the word 'Solve' quite often.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Education crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Economy crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Islamic Terrorist crisis.

Obama states he will 'Solve' the Health Care crisis.

Obama uses his 'Toothy Smile' and 'Teleprompter Words', in an attempt to 'Polish Turds' that have never worked or never will.

Totalitarian Indoctrination of children in Government Schools, like the Vladimir Lenin 'Turd', “Give us the child for 8 years and it will be a Bolshevik (Marxist/Communist) forever”, is 'Shined Up' and called 'Social Justice'.

Nationalizations of Major American Industries, is 'Shined Up' from the Marxist/Socialist 'Turd' and called 'Saving and Creating Jobs'.

The 'Turd' of Islamic Jihad (which promises death and destruction), is 'Shined Up' and called 'Mutual Acceptance' and 'Working Together'.

The 'Socialized Health Care Turd' is 'Shined Up' and called 'ObamaCare for All'.

When Barack Obama asks his followers, 'Will You Polish these Turds' - they Chant in unison 'Yes We Can'.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

“Ridicule is the first and last argument of a fool”

Jefferson was talking about about you, but in your case you're so stupid no one needs to ridicule you.

Your own posts do it for you, stupid

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Strange read

===============================================

dunstvangeet wrote:
What you're actually saying is that a Native American who also has citizenship in his tribe, is not eligible to be President, even though his ancestors have been in this country longer than your ancestors were, and he was born with U.S. Citizenship.

That's ridiculous.
=============================================

lol
I do not know how you came up with this one from reading anything written here.

Good info citar

carpenturr1 9 months ago

"blackmambo" is a good name for that snake.

This question is growing stronger and stronger with every mocking, with every sneer, with every refusal.

Its a cover-up

carpenturr1 9 months ago

kjheinz
Do you know what a Birth Certificate is?

carpenturr1 9 months ago

This guy blackmonrikker is an internet thug, a keyboard tough guy, a complete idiot.

Waste of time responding to this moron, just flag him for his trolling the board

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Statement;

"AFFIDAVIT OF REVEREND KWELI SHUHUBIA
I, Kweli Shuhubia am over the age of eighteen (18) and not a party to the within action. If called to do so, I could and would competently testify under oath as follows I am an ordained minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ and a native evangelist and translator for the Anabaptist churches in Kenya. I am the official Swahili translator for the annual Anabaptists Conference held each year in Africa, working with the American bishops sitting upon the Continental Presbytery of the Anabaptists Churches of Africa. I am fluent in Swahili and in English. I am a former teacher in Kenya, and travel
extensively in the ministries of the Anabaptists Churches of Africa throughout Kenya, Uganda and the Sudan.
It is common knowledge throughout the Christian and Muslim communities in Kenya that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., the United States Presidential candidate, was born in Mombosa Kenya. Senator Obama's grandmother still resides in the village of Alego-Kogello, approximately 37 miles from Kisumu City.
During my interview of Sarah Obama; I called Bishop Ron McRae in the United States from my mobile number. I advised Bishop McRae that I was present with Ms. Obama in her home, and wished for him to speak with her. Bishop McRae informed me he would call me right back, to avoid the international costs on my personal mobile phone. Bishop McRae subsequently called me back; Bishop McRae requested permission to electronically record his telephone conversations with Ms. Obama, to which I agreed.
Due to bad telephone connections Bishop McRae had to call me back three [3] times, before we were able to continue our conversation. The telephone interview conducted by Bishop McRae was conducted on loud speaker (speaker phone). During the interview conversation, one of Ms. Obama's grandsons's and myself acted as Swahili translators, and as Bishop McRae talked to and questioned Ms. Obama, we would translate what Bishop McRae said to Ms. Obama in Swahili, and then we would translate her Swahili responses to Bishop McRae in English. Ms. Obama can fluently speak Swahili in her native dialect, but cannot read or write.
Bishop McRae asked Ms. Obama specifically, "Were you present when your grandson Barack Obama was born in Kenya?" This was asked to her in translation twice, and both times she specifically replied, "Yes". It appeared Ms. Obama's relatives and her grandson, handling the translating,, had obviously been versed to counter such facts with the purported information from the American news media that Obama was born in Hawaii. Despite this, Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama was very adamant that her grandson, Senator Barack Hussein Obama, was born in Kenya, and that she was present and witnessed his birth in Kenya, not the United States. When Ms. Obama's grandson attempted to counter his grandmother's clear responses to the question, verifying the birth of Senator Obama in Kenya, Bishop McRae asked her grandson, how she could be present at Barack Obama's birth if the Senator was born in Hawaii, but the grandson would not answer the question, instead he repeatedly tried to insert that, "No, No, No.
He was born in the United States!" But during the conversation, Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama never changed her reply that she was in deed present when Senator Barack Obama was born in Kenya."

http://www.obamanotqualified.com/grandmother.htm

See ya all in Court

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Obama and his anti birthers are scared to death of any Court trying the facts.

Their knees shake afraid of the truth.

Obama has committed fraud, his refusal to show any records let alone the BC proves it

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Look at what we are dealing with here

================================================
redkite16 writes:
"You birfers have the right to continue to ask questions. But I also have the right to continue to demand the first shred of evidence that will stand up in a court of law. You have none. And that's why I irritate you."
=============================================

Do you understand why we have a Court?
A Justice System?

You do not express yourself in a way that anyone can tell.

The Court is the only place everyone of us have to air out this problem, and try the facts.

This is no different than when a District Attorney makes a criminal charge against some person.

He has circumstantial evidence he uses to bring the charges, and the person charged is given his day in court to prove his innocence.

I am charging Obama with Fraud.
He is breaking Faith with the American people by keeping all his records hidden contrary to all sound reason and is actually forbidden by Article 4 of the US Constitutuion.

This man Obama is not above the Law.
He is not a King
He is a hired hand and has a job Description of duties to preform for the Nation, not just you democrats or whatever you are.

He has not been transparent himself and shows himself cynical to even use the word as he stonewalls all the information about his BC, his Passport, his Adoption Records, and his School Records.

Why is he keeping this information hidden?
The more he refuses to be transparent, the more fuel he is adding to the fire for demanding he stop his fraudulent lying and open up and be TRANSPARENT.

Otherwise he is nothing but a lying hypocrite and undermines all confidence of the office he shows disrespect for by his contempt for America, the Law and our System of Government.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Fraud is the issue that surrounds every part of the man Barry Soetoro (Obama) and his life.

His fraudulence gives all citizens standing to petition for redress of a grievance.

Glad to see this knowledge is gaining all across the USA.

Its well known in Kenya

carpenturr1 9 months ago

I think all the sane people should just ignore this lunatic
blackmonrikker

carpenturr1 9 months ago

In sum, the doctrine of standing, or standing to sue, is a court-created “doctrine” which determines whether or not the court will hear a particular federal lawsuit. The courts have held the plaintiff in the lawsuit is responsible to prove his “standing to sue.” There is no legislative support nor regulation for this “doctrine” as is the case for most other court processes such as court rules of operation. Thus the terms, conditions and interpretations of the “doctrine” are entirely in the discretion of the court and therefore many times in the court’s history been altered, amended or subjugated for a specific court lawsuit. Using this “doctrine” the courts determine whether it has jurisdiction to decide the lawsuit in question.

As the “doctrine” is literally decided on a case by case basis, it is nearly impossible to describe the conditions by which standing is met as they may be altered at any time by the court. The classic standards are that usually advanced in legal papers discussing standing are: (1) that the injury alleged by the plaintiff is imminent; (2) that the alleged injury is “concrete and particularized” rather than a “general grievance;” (3) that it is “likely” rather than merely “speculative” that the alleged injury will be redressed by a favorable judgment. However the courts have at various times established several “prudential” or gatekeeping rules which include “independent and adequate standing,” “mootness,” “ripeness,” “political question doctrine” and “prudential.”

http://foavc.org/file.php/1/Articles/The%20Doctrine%20of%20Standing.htm

Now compare this issue of Standing now being given to unlawful combatants who wage war and terror under no nations flags and should be shot if the law was respected and followed today.

This doctrine is against all laws and treaties and never done before, and goes against the Supreme Court precedence on cases just like it right after WW2.

Johnson v. Eisentrager

339 U.S. 763 (1950)

The United States Supreme Court held that the federal Constitution does not confer a right of personal security or immunity from military trial and punishment on alien enemies engaged in the hostile service of a government at war with the United States. The "aliens" concerned were German Nationals who were confined in the custody of the United States Army in Germany following their conviction y a military commission of having engaged in military activity against the United States in China after the surrender of Germany. The Court stated that the military authorities have a jurisdiction, during or following "hostilities" to punish those guilty of offenses against the laws of war, and the German Nationals did not have the right to a writ of habeas corpus.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/tribunals/jve.html

carpenturr1 9 months ago

creeksneakers2 writes:

"Suppose you buy a washing machine from Maytag and they fail to honor a warranty. You can sue them. I can't sue them, because I've suffered no harm. I wouldn't have standing"

True
But Obama has the ability to affect the lives of every single citizen in America.
Just look at all of us out here as Maytag Washers.

The use of the Doctrine of Standing has as much stability in law as jello as it places very real people kept out and barred from having the Court Try the Facts of very real suffering all of us can with an impostor and a fraud in the WH.

The Doctrine of Standing was invented by the Court itself, out of thin air.

Of course I do not have a case for his suffering due to faulty service of some piece of equipment, but that is not a good analogy for filing a grievance of being defrauded by deceit from an Election.

All Citizens have Standing to file when an election has given us an impostor, if that be the case and I believe it is.

But the ONLY recourse any of us has is the Legal System.
If the Legal System bars the door to citizens and opens it to foreign combatants, we have a REAL PROBLEM

carpenturr1 9 months ago

antoinette_lasalle writes:

The framers did not define "natural born citizen." That is the problem.
===========================================

It did not need an explanation, it had been defined by the very words themselves.

Look at it, it was clear enough no one questioned it before today.

Article II
Section 1
Clause 5
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President,.......

It is self explanatory in the very words themselves

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Link to read Vattel and the Law of Nations.

http://home.earthlink.net/~dybel/Documents/LawOfNations,Vattel.htm#I-%C2%A716

carpenturr1 9 months ago

No foreign allegiance is what this oath is all about.

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

This oath is based in the understanding that both Blackstone and Vattel had expounded on.

William Blackstone, Commentaries 1:354, 357–58, 361–62 (1765)

The first and most obvious division of the people is into aliens and natural-born subjects. Natural-born subjects are such as are born within the dominions of the crown of England, that is, within the ligeance, or as it is generally called, the allegiance of the king; and aliens, such as are born out of it. Allegiance is the tie, or ligamen, which binds the subject to the king, in return for that protection which the king affords the subject. The thing itself, or substantial part of it, is founded in reason and the nature of government; the name and the form are derived to us from our Gothic ancestors….

Allegiance, both express and implied, is however distinguished by the law into two sorts or species, the one natural, the other local; the former being also perpetual, the latter temporary. Natural allegiance is such as is due from all men born within the king’s dominions immediately upon their birth. For, immediately upon their birth, they are under the king’s protection; at a time too, when (during their infancy) they are incapable of protecting themselves.

http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_4_citizenships1.html

Vattel has so much to say about this its hard to just confine it to anyone paragraph, but here is one about: "obligation to preserve itself"

§ 16. A nation is under an obligation to preserve itself.

In the act of association, by virtue of which a multitude of men form together a state or nation, each individual has entered into engagements with all, to promote the general welfare; and all have entered into engagements with each individual, to facilitate for him the means of supplying his necessities, and to protect and defend him. It is manifest that these reciprocal engagements can no otherwise be fulfilled than by maintaining the political association. The entire nation is then obliged to maintain that association; and as their preservation depends on its continuance, it thence follows that every nation is obliged to perform the duty of self-preservation,

This obligation, so natural to each individual of God's creation, is not derived to nations immediately from nature, but from the agreement by which civil society is formed: it is therefore not absolute, but conditional, — that is to say, it supposes a human act, to wit, the social compact. And as compacts may be dissolved by common consent of the parties — if the individuals that compose a nation should unanimously agree to break the link that binds them, it would be lawful for them to do so, and thus to destroy the state or nation; but they would doubtless incur a degree of guilt, if they took this step without just and weighty reasons; for civil societies are approved by the Law of Nature, which recommends them to mankind, as the true means of supplying all their wants, and of effectually advancing towards their own perfection. Moreover, civil society is so useful, nay so necessary to all citizens, that it may well be considered as morally impossible for them to consent unanimously to break it without necessity. But what citizens may or ought to do — what the majority of them may resolve in certain cases of necessity or of pressing exigency — are questions that will be treated of elsewhere: they cannot be solidly determined without some principles which we have not yet established. For the present, it is sufficient to have proved, that, in general, as long as the political society subsists, the whole nation is obliged to endeavour to maintain it.

This oath is about preservation of this nation.

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

carpenturr1 9 months ago

1st Amendment recognizes every Citizen has Standing in any Case that arises under the US Constitution.

Article III

Section 2. The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States,....

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances

"to petition the government for a redress of grievances"

"The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity"

All citizens have Standing to file a petition.

Its obstruction of Justice to deny Citizens Standing to file a Petition and then GRANT STANDING TO FOREIGN ENEMY COMBATANTS, THIS GOVERNMENT IS DOING.

Every one who loves this country should be outraged at the crimes being committed by Government under the color of law

carpenturr1 9 months ago

creeksneakers2 writes:
Allison: If you are still here, could you help me with a piece of ammo I'd like to hurl at the Birthers?
===============================================

Why would you need ammo for hallucinations?

That is what all you anti"birthers" call this/

Do you need some ammo to show Mickey Mouse is not a real person too?

Your fear of this question is what all of you ant"birthers" are showing.

Be afraid, its not going away.
And if it makes you nervous, get ready for a nervous breakdown

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Laws that address dual citizenship have been in an evolving and changing accommodation for globalism.

US law
relating to
dual citizenship
Last revised: 2009-03-28 20:25:58-0700

US Constitution

* 14th Amendment

Statutes

* Immigration and Nationality Act
* US citizenship vs. US nationality
* Citizenship by birth (INA § 301, 8 USC § 1401)
* Citizenship by naturalization (INA § 337, 8 USC § 1448)
* Loss of citizenship (INA § 349, 8 USC § 1481)
* 1978 citizenship law amendments (Pub.L. 95-432)
* 1986 citizenship law amendments (Pub.L. 99-653)
* 1994 citizenship law amendments (Pub.L. 103-416)
* 2000 citizenship law amendments (Pub.L. 106-395)

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/law.html

carpenturr1 9 months ago

antoinette_lasalle wrote:
No, that's not what you said, carpenturr1. You said "a law." It's "a PROCESS based on a law," not "a law." Obviously, the United States can determine who are citizens and who are not, so you'd really be tying your hands if you insist that there can be no law regarding who is or is not a citizen.
----------------------------------------

Maybe you are just honestly confused and not intentionally obstructive.

Here is what I said:

"Natural born is self explanatory.
A citizen by nature and not law.

Anytime the law is involved in any person's citizenship, he is a citizen by legislation, not nature"

I did not say:

antoinette_lasalle wrote
" so you'd really be tying your hands if you insist that there can be no law regarding who is or is not a citizen."

The law can only recognize a natural born citizen, the law cannot create a Natural Born Citizen.

My statement is true:

"Natural born is self explanatory.
A citizen by nature and not law.

Anytime the law is involved in any person's citizenship, he is a citizen by legislation, not nature"

carpenturr1 9 months ago

antoinette_lasalle writes:
Sorry, the divorce record doesn't prove he was adopted either.
=======================================

The Divorce Papers indeed show Barry was a dependent of Lolo Soetoro.

Not possible unless he had been adopted

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Yes there is

antoinette_lasalle writes:
There is no documented proof that he was ever adopted by anyone. The school record proves nothing at all. To prove he was adopted, you need better evidence than that.
===============================================

We have Indonesian Law that Documents Barry (Obama) could not have went to school in Indonesia unless he was a Citizen of Indonesia.

We have all seen that documentation and Barry's own words he went to school in Indonesia.

We have documents Lolo Soetoro was an Official of the Indonesian Government.
This gives credence he followed the laws of Indonesia and adopted Barry.

So there must be papers showing the adoption in Indonesia.

But just like Obama will not be transparent with his BC, neither will he with his adoption papers, Passport or School Records

carpenturr1 9 months ago

antoinette_lasalle writes:
No, you've got that totally wrong. If a legal PROCESS -- that is, a process based on a law -- is used to make a person a citizen, that person is not a natural born citizen. If the citizenship law of a country states that persons born on its soil are citizens at birth, then such persons ARE natural born. However, dual citizenship introduces a question, and that question cannot be solved by looking at citizenship law IN ITS APPLICATION TO CITIZENSHIP AT BIRTH. Why? Because it is NOT in the statute that tells us who is a citizen at birth.

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 140
=======================================

This is exactly what I said!

quote you:

" If a legal PROCESS -- that is, a process based on a law -- is used to make a person a citizen, that person is not a natural born citizen."

This subject was addressed long ago and adopted into everyone's understanding of "natural born citizen".

Blackwell and .....whats his name, the Frenchman.
Vattel

You mention this:

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/8/1401.html

TITLE 8 > CHAPTER 12 > SUBCHAPTER III > Part I > § 1401

§ 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:
(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

This is just following the prescription layed out in 1868 and the 14th Amendment.

Amendment XIV

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

This was made in 1868 long after the United States had formed and already had citizens.

Many situations had yet to be addressed to qualify and recognize persons involved with circumstances that questioned their citizenship, just as Southern States had black citizens before and frankly after 1868.

Natural Born Citizen is a citizen who is recognized as a Citizen by the law, but was not made a citizen by the law.

All citizens made a citizen by law are called naturalized.

There are two categories of United States citizens.

Natural and naturalized.

Obama cannot ever be considered Natural Born.

He birth circumstance brings up law, due to his father and his adoption by Lolo Soetoro.

Lolo was an Indonesian Government Official and the legal father of Barry Soetoro while he was in Indonesia and up and til he was 20 years old.

This is documented by his mothers divorce papers from Lolo in 1980.

here:

http://decalogosintl.org/documents/Soetoro_Divorce.pdf

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The connection between Wall Street and the Socialists is something you are probably unaware of.

Truth is stranger than Fiction.

Read this, lots of information that has been buried.

WALL STREET
AND THE
BOLSHEVIK
REVOLUTION

By
Antony C. Sutton

http://www.reformed-theology.org/html/books/bolshevik_revolution/

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Forgot the link for the American Indians

http://www.native-languages.org/kansas.htm

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Many humans had been born in America that were not recognized as citizens.

The American Indians of the Kansas Tribe who had been born after Kansas became a State were not US Citizens, for example.

Many others of the American Indian Tribes did not receive US Citizenship even after the passage of the 14th Amendment.

Look it up and see for yourself, here are some of the American Indian Tribes who were not US Citizens until....? way after 1868 and the 14th A. anyway.

The original inhabitants of the area that is now Kansas included:
*The Arapaho tribe
*The Comanche tribe
*The Kansa tribe
*The Kiowa tribe
*The Osage tribe
*The Pawnee tribe

The Cheyenne Indians, close allies of the Arapahos, also occasionally ranged into what is now northwestern Kansas, and the Wichita Indians expanded into the southern part of the state.
Indian tribes relocated into Kansas by the US government:
Kansas, like Oklahoma, was originally allotted as Indian territory. This was part of the American policy of Indian Removal. Some eastern and midwestern tribes signed treaties agreeing to move onto reservations in Oklahoma and Kansas in exchange for undisputed ownership of the new lands. Other tribes refused or resisted and were forcibly moved into Kansas by the US Army.

*The Cherokee tribe
*The Chippewa tribe
*The Delaware tribe
*The Illini
*The Iowa tribe
*The Otoe tribe
*The Kickapoo tribe
*The Potawatomi tribe
*The Sac and Fox tribe
*The Seneca tribe
*The Shawnee tribe
*The Wyandotte tribe

Many Kansas Indians, including all the tribes originally native to the area, had to go through a second removal to Oklahoma in the late 19th century. They are still living there today.

See also our new Arapaho, Comanche, Kansa, Kiowa, Osage, Pawnee, Wichita, Iowa, Kickapoo, Otoe, Shawnee, Wyandotte, and Pottawatomie Facts for Kids pages!
There are four federally recognized Indian tribes in Kansas today.
Here are the addresses of Kansas' Indian reservations:

*Kickapoo Tribe of Indians in Kansas:
PO Box 271
Horton, KS 66439

*Iowa Tribe of Kansas and Nebraska:
Route 1, Box 58A
White Cloud, KS 66094

*Prairie Band Potawatomi Nation:
14880 K Road
Mayetta, KS 66439
http://www.pbpindiantribe.com/

*Sac and Fox Nation:
RR 1 Box 60
Reserve, KS 66434

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The reason we do not have any Court Cases that address the Qualifications of the President being a natural Born Citizen is due to there has never been anyone until Obama to question his Natural Born Status.

Natural born is self explanatory.
A citizen by nature and not law.

Anytime the law is involved in any person's citizenship, he is a citizen by legislation, not nature

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Its perfectly clear as its never been questioned except by people today who want to justify Obama.
======================================

antoinette_lasalle writes:
Whether dual citizenship includes being a natural born citizen is the issue. It's not clear, I don't think, from the Supreme Court decisions that we have to work with.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Read it then, moron

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Bastiat

Property and Plunder

Man can live and satisfy his wants only by ceaseless labor; by the ceaseless application of his faculties to natural resources. This process is the origin of property.

But it is also true that a man may live and satisfy his wants by seizing and consuming the products of the labor of others. This process is the origin of plunder.

Now since man is naturally inclined to avoid pain — and since labor is pain in itself — it follows that men will resort to plunder whenever plunder is easier than work. History shows this quite clearly. And under these conditions, neither religion nor morality can stop it.

When, then, does plunder stop? It stops when it becomes more painful and more dangerous than labor.

It is evident, then, that the proper purpose of law is to use the power of its collective force to stop this fatal tendency to plunder instead of to work. All the measures of the law should protect property and punish plunder.

But, generally, the law is made by one man or one class of men. And since law cannot operate without the sanction and support of a dominating force, this force must be entrusted to those who make the laws.

This fact, combined with the fatal tendency that exists in the heart of man to satisfy his wants with the least possible effort, explains the almost universal perversion of the law. Thus it is easy to understand how law, instead of checking injustice, becomes the invincible weapon of injustice. It is easy to understand why the law is used by the legislator to destroy in varying degrees among the rest of the people,
their personal independence by slavery, their liberty by oppression, and their property by plunder.

This is done for the benefit of the person who makes the law, and in proportion to the power that he holds.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

We have criminal activity from the Government with an abuse of power and law.

We are back to the days that inspired the French Revolution with this disgusting criminal actions in the Abuse of Power.

quote Bastiat:
The Complete Perversion of the Law
But, unfortunately, law by no means confines itself to its proper functions. And when it has exceeded its proper functions, it has not done so merely in some inconsequential and debatable matters. The law has gone further than this; it has acted in direct opposition to its own purpose. The law has been used to destroy its own objective: It has been applied to annihilating the justice that it was supposed to maintain; to limiting and destroying rights which its real purpose was to respect. The law has placed the collective force at the disposal of the unscrupulous who wish, without risk, to exploit the person, liberty, and property of others. It has converted plunder into a right, in order to protect plunder. And it has converted lawful defense into a crime, in order to punish lawful defense.

How has this perversion of the law been accomplished? And what have been the results?

The law has been perverted by the influence of two entirely different causes: stupid greed and false philanthropy. Let us speak of the first.

Read more here:
http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html#SECTION_G1793

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Dual Citizenship is a rather new situation.

No one statement can be made that is accurate to describe all the situations this subject brings up.

This is as clear as it gets in the way it was when Obama was born.

The Oath of Allegiance

The final step in the naturalization process is the reciting of the "oath of allegiance" by the applicant, in which he or she makes several promises upon becoming a U.S. citizen. The oath of allegiance is:

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

Capiche?

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

Capiche?

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

Capiche?

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

Understand clear English?

No doubt you do and are dishonest

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Your rants are enough to undermine your credibility.

No need to use your gutter language and be a fool as you have proven yourself to be by what you post here.'

Keep up the good work moron

carpenturr1 9 months ago

carpenturr1: "There was no such a thing as a dual citizen when the obama was born, not in America or Indonesia."

===========================================

blackmonrikker writes:
Do you EVER tell the truth? Dude, seriously. Is it that big a deal that you have to put your eternal soul at this much risk?
=============================================
Do you ever make a point without your school yard childish insults?

Impotent insults but it shows me what a hateful little man you are.

Its a fact, America did not have dual citizens in 1961.

Jimmy Carter began the assault on single citizenship.

No one could hold citizenship in another country and be a citizen of America at the same time in 1961.

U.S. v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

Perkins v. Elg, 307 U.S. 325 (1939)

Kawakita v. U.S., 343 U.S. 717 (1952)

Mandoli v. Acheson, 344 U.S. 133 (1952)

Perez v. Brownell, 356 U.S. 44 (1958)

Trop v. Dulles, 356 U.S. 86 (1958)

Continues after 1961

with:
Schneider v. Rusk, 377 U.S. 163 (1964)

Afroyim v. Rusk, 387 U.S. 253 (1967)

Rogers v. Bellei, 401 U.S. 815 (1971)

Vance v. Terrazas, 444 U.S. 252 (1980)

Miller v. Albright, 523 U.S. 420 (1998)

Nguyen v. INS, 533 U.S. 53 (2001)

Richards v. Secretary of State et al., 752 F.2d 1413 (9th Cir. 1985)

The following Court of Appeals case (one step below the Supreme Court) isn't nearly as relevant nowadays as it was in 1985, in light of the State Department's current (and much more permissive) policy on loss of US citizenship.

William Richards became a Canadian citizen in 1971. At the time he did this, the Canadian naturalization oath included a clause renouncing prior allegiances. Accordingly, a lower court concluded that Richards had lost his US citizenship.

Richards argued that he had acquired Canadian citizenship only because he needed said citizenship in order to get a job with the Boy Scouts of Canada. Although he conceded that he had made an explicit statement of renunciation of US citizenship as part of the Canadian naturalization procedure, he contended that this action on his part was not voluntary because he had been under "economic duress" at the time.

The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals rejected Richards' economic duress argument, observing that he had worked in Canada for several years as a teacher without being a Canadian citizen, and that there was no evidence that he had been forced to leave his teaching job or that he had made any effort to find a job that would not have required him to obtain Canadian citizenship and renounce his US citizenship.

The lower court found (and the Ninth Circuit agreed) that Richards knew and understood the significance of the renunciatory language in the Canadian naturalization documents. Although Richards would have preferred to keep his US citizenship, such a wish was not sufficient to negate the presumption that he had chosen, in the end, to give up that citizenship. "We cannot accept a test", the Ninth Circuit stated in its opinion, "under which the right to expatriation can be exercised effectively only if exercised eagerly."

It should be noted, by the way, that Canada no longer requires new citizens to give up their other citizenships. The renunciatory language in the Canadian naturalization oath was ruled illegal by a Canadian court in 1973 on technical grounds and was subsequently removed -- and Canada has allowed dual citizenship without any restrictions at all since 1977. Hence, the Richards case is generally not relevant to Americans who became Canadian citizens after that time.

Further, the State Department's current (post-1990) policy on loss of US citizenship specifically says that taking a "routine oath of allegiance" to a foreign country will not normally be interpreted as showing an intent to give up US citizenship. Contrast the ruling in this case with a very different ruling in a 1991 case, discussed below.

Action and Deltamar v. Rich, 951 F.2d 504 (2nd Cir. 1991)

The following case seems somewhat more in line with the current State Department policy that loss of US citizenship occurs only when a person truly intends to give it up.

Marc Rich, defendant in a multi-million-dollar business lawsuit, contended that the Federal District Court which had heard his case lacked jurisdiction because he (Rich) had given up his US citizenship in 1982 when he became a naturalized citizen of Spain. The Spanish naturalization oath he took included an explicit renunciation of US citizenship.

The Second Circuit Court of Appeals observed, however, that "[D]espite his naturalization as a Spanish citizen, Rich continued to behave in a manner consistent with American citizenship. . . . Rich continued to use his American passport despite renunciation of American citizenship. . . ."

Although Rich asserted that his Spanish naturalization conclusively established his intent to relinquish US citizenship, the court said there "must be proof of a specific intent to relinquish United States citizenship before an act of foreign naturalization or oath of loyalty to another sovereign can result in the expatriation of an American citizen. . . . Despite mouthing words of renunciation before a Spanish official", the court continued, Rich "brought a Swiss action as an American national, travelled on his American passport, and publicized himself in a commercial register as a United States citizen."

Accordingly, the Second Circuit ruled that despite Rich's actions, he had retained his US citizenship because he had never truly intended to relinquish it.

You have shown me how stupid you are blackmonrikker, and you are not ashamed to show everyone how stupid you are

carpenturr1 9 months ago

What a moron you are, besides being a extreme racist.

blackmonrikker writes:
And here's one more thing, you unconscionable hypocrites. When you first heard the birfer tale, how many of you asked Phil and Orly to PROVE it?
==========================================

You ignorant moron, both these people understand this question has not been settled and want the Court to hear the facts and be the trier of facts.

You are such an idiot

carpenturr1 9 months ago

This information is spreading to more and more every day.

Americans will not sleep forever

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The extremists are in the media and the government.
Well the dangerous ones as in dangerous to American Citizens Civil Rights.

Both have their favorites and even abuse the law to protect as in the recent Ricci Case.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Nazi's are LEFT WING NUT CASES.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Carpenturr1:

"My thoughts are above you and your legal arguments."

blackmonrikker wrote:

That's your problem. The only chance you have of winning this is by using LEGAL ARGUMENTS. Your high minded ideas about God and Country don't trump U.S. law.
=============================================

And what is more legal than the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence?

If I do make any legal argument, they are based in the Foundation of American Law.

Which Law is based in God's Laws.

"All men are born ignorant, takes an education to be stupid"

=============================================
blackmonrikker wrote:
If God tells you, man to man, that you don't have to apply for a driver's license, I'd recommend that you listen to Him. But you are still going to get arrested every time you get caught driving. God's comments to you don't mean anything to the Motor Vehicles Department.
==============================================

Nice to know just in case, thanks.

=============================================

blackmonrikker wrote:
I asked you earlier to expound on your ideas about what's legal. You'd mentioned slavery and Jim Crow. Those were laws based upon immoral principles.
===============================================

Agree
They were immoral principles and both illegal under the US Constitution.

The 14th Amendment was passed in 1868.
The legalization of Slavery was done by the British Empire and the King of England.

It was not made legal by the US Constitution, as Slavery existed before and while that document was drawn up and signed.

============================================
blackmonrikker wrote:
What I was trying to get you to see is that those principles (white supremacy) are only immoral in HINGSIGHT. White supremacist thought permeated the nation for the first 175 years.
=============================================
Here is your own racism.
Merchants and Governments created and protected slavery, not "whitey"

You are indeed a racist, and it is your problem, not whiteys.

More slavery happened in Africa and South America than here under the British or the Southern States.

Look into the history of the Caribbean and South America under the Spanish and the Porteguese.

Then look into who was the instigators of the sales of men in Africa.
it was not "whitey".

You really are a hard case racist aren't ya.

==============================================

blackmonrikker wrote:

The difference between slavery and the fact that no law compels Obama to show you any of his records is substantial. Slavery is immoral. No compelling law for presidents to supply personal data is merely an oversight by Congress.
=============================================

You are wrong of course, but being wrong will not have any effect on your ignorance of the law and especially Article 4

carpenturr1 9 months ago

carpenturr1: "The Legal System is the real danger to all Citizens.

It was the legal system that legalized slavery.
It was the legal system that legalized Jim Crow."

=======================================

blackmonrikker writes:
Jeez, carpenturr1! You're starting to go DEEP!!! I didn't think you had it in you!!
good points!!
======================================
If you had been here thinking instead of accusing, you would understand me and why I come here.

====================================

blackmonrikker writes:
Now make the next logical progression!! I realize you are trying to undermine my legal arguments, but skip past that and take YOUR ideas to the next logical level.
========================================
Try this
Quit making accusations and start asking questions.
I have not given a single thought to any of your legal arguments.

I am making statements from heart felt conviction and conscience.

My thoughts are above you and your legal arguments.

I am not meaning this as if saying you are beneath me and my thoughts, but only that the thoughts I am making are above me too.

They come from higher learning and higher wisdom.

The Principles of God's Law and how they apply still today.

If your legal arguments are undermined, its because they have no Foundation in the Eternal Principles of God's Laws and American Constitution.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker WRITES:
Carpenturr1,

Do you know how I win these internet birfer arguments? I goad racists like Jimmy.simpson55 and Big Rooster into making statements that identify them as racists. Usually, that happens shortly after I reveal my own race. You couldn't tell my race from my written posts otherwise.
=========================================

Your own racism is the only thing you have any power to address, and you seem to have no intentions to address.

Just stir up racial passions by making accusations to drown out hearing what another real living person has to say for himself.
You will not GIVE what you WANT for yourself.

You want all of us to take you as the authority of who you are and not what someone else accuses you of.

Yet you do not want anyone else to have this same authority to speak for themselves that you want for yourself, ONLY.

At least this is what I see from you so far.
========================================
blackmonrikker WRITES:
America has changed, whether you know it or not.
=======================================
I know the America I knew as a child and young man has changed from a moral society to an immoral one.

Public speech has changed from decency to indecency.

I know that.
I know the Foundations of America have not changed and never will.

You are making a statement as an absolute in the above and makes you making a false statement.

"more things change, the more they stay the same"

I know you have heard this saying and its got truth in it as well.

The change in America has to be defined to be accurate.
Some things have changed without a doubt,inventions have made change for instance, but not the Principles that Founded America.

The Principles of America are Found in Eternal Principles.

They cannot be Abolished, Amended or Changed.
They can only be ignored, for a time.
========================================

blackmonrikker WRITES:
A simple, Constitutionally protected statement of racism is enough to tip fence sitters against you. It was enough to get a very guilty O.J. Simpson acquitted in 1995.

Whether you admit it or not, much of birferism is rooted in racism. That's not playing the race card. It is what it is. When you examine the facts you find that the birfers arguments are nothing but wild accusations and suspicion.
=======================================
You are the one bringing in the subject of race, as all men get born and have papers about that birth.

I want to see those papers because i do not believe anything Obama says.

My faith in Obama is the issue, not his skin tone.

You anti "birthers" are the racists who always bring race into this simple, routine, every day, plain vanilla request.

=========================================

blackmonrikker WRITES:

I've repeatedly asked for a legal basis for birfer claims. None have been forthcoming. Without that, birfers are pissing in the wind.
=========================================
You ask us to provide you with something that Obama has.
As we come to ask Obama for his papers that only he can show, you come to ask us something that only Obama can do.

And you refuse to ask him any questions cause you are in love with his skin color and that is all that matters to you.
========================================

blackmonrikker WRITES:

Getting back to my original statement, unless you strip that inherent racism out of your arguments, you'll never obtain the credibility necessary to sway the opinions of most Americans. Truthfully? If I wanted to undermine your entire argument, all I'd have to do is note that you said something ("Obama is a hired hand") that James von Brunn wrote. I wouldn't have to prove that you got it from him directly.

And that's how it is. I don't have to play the race card. All I have to do is let birfers talk. Eventually, they'll impale themselves.
========================================
You are the racist

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The Legal System is the real danger to all Citizens.

It was the legal system that legalized slavery.
It was the legal system that legalized Jim Crow.

It was the Legal System Martin Luther King made his warfare against, not people.
Martin Luther King was a Christian man, a Preacher of the Gospel.

He fought INSTITUTIONALIZED racism the Jim Crow Laws that had been passed by some States.
NOT FROM CONGRESS.

All the Jim Crow Laws had come from the Individual States, not the Federal Government.

The Legal System is where all OPPRESSION ORIGINATES in America, TODAY.

If the US Congress becomes a CROWS NEST for TOM, DICK, HARRY AND JIM CROW, the nation is headed for another Civil War.
This is just the way it is with nature, our nature.

Obama appointed a racist Latina woman to the Supreme Court.

He shows me he has contempt for the Justice System with such choices.
He shows me he is CYNICAL with this choice of a racist Latina woman.

Lets jump ahead and place her on the Supreme Court that I must face with a case about my Civil Rights.

I am not the right skin tone for her "empathy".
So I know she will not have any empathy for me, all the while she gets praise from some citizens for having empathy.

This is cynical, hardly honest or Just.

So now that I am standing before this woman seeking Justice, I am going to be denied Justice.

Instead of being required to know the LAW, I will be required to know about this woman's "feelings" and her Latina woman's "wisdom".

Which places me in outer space for an expectation of justice because its not possible for me to know about this woman's "feelings and wisdom" that is hidden from my skin toned feelings.

Which UNDERMINES confidence in the Justice System and Obama does it on purpose, cynically.

He is telling me, forget the LAW, no need to know what the LAW is, but get HIP to the "feelings and wisdom" of this Latina Woman.

She is so incompetent, she has been reversed in 60 percent of every case she wrote the decision for that was taken to a HIGHER COURT.

Surely none of us believe she is the best America has to offer as a LIFETIME APPOINTMENT TO THE SUPREME COURT.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker writes:

Carpenturr1, finally we agree on something.
=========================================
Our problems are common
They are not given to any of us by our skin

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Carpenturr1: "Obama is a hired hand"

blackmonrikker writes:
You are quoting James von Brunn.
=======================================

Never heard of the man.
I am stating a fact, not quoting anyone.
====================================

blackmonrikker writes:

And I don't believe you complained when earlier presidents were foisted upon us by power brokers.
=======================================
Like you would know?
How would you know this about me?

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker writes:
Carpenturr1,

Ideally, I agree that Obama ought to be a role model for all Americans. But the truth is that white Americans have had 43 other role model presidents. This one is my first.
========================================
The point you make is one of the most divisive issues for communications of unity though.

"United" States took 13 years of debate to finally come up with agreements in areas that made it possible for the original 13 Colonies to Unite as States.

Race was a subject of deep contention from 1776 to 1789, and it was brought up because of slavery the British Government had Legalized since 1705,it existed and had to be addressed, there was no such a thing as the United States of America, but just un-United British Colonies.

Slavery was legal in Georgia all the while it had been outlawed by New England Colonies before there was such a nation as the United States of America.

The sin of slavery has extracted a severe cost on INNOCENT PEOPLE, both black and white.

Sins of the fathers should not be laid at the feet of the children.

Slavery divided the nation into Slave States and Free States.
Made possible by the 10th Amendment, as a Right for each State to determine its own laws that address the issue of slavery.

Up til 1865 that is, when the 13th Amendment was added to the US Constitution and outlawed Slavery for all the States.

Which subject the US Constitution had been neutral on up til the 13th Amendment.

The seed for Unity was LAID in the Declaration of Independence with these words....

"the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them"

"all men are created equal...they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"

Legalizing slavery said the opposite, so the ground work for the Civil War was laid, due to men ignoring this LAW of GOD, our Creator that this nation was Founded in.

I would wish no man looked to any man for his role model, but instead looked to the Creator as the D of I points all men to look to.

What a great subject to discuss.
========================================

blackmonrikker writes:

I love my wife and kids. My son just graduated from Duke. My daughter is a sophomore at Vanderbilt. Both of them earned full academic scholarships. My youngest son is 15. He cuts yards and makes $60/hour. I don't see any reason to send him off to college. He's already rolling.

I don't see a whole lot of black people like that, other than in my circle. Rather, I see a whole generation of boys who have no fear of going to jail and no respect for education. These boys don't have fathers at home who are willing to kick their asses if they won't pull their heads out of their asses. That situation is a grave danger to the nation, not just black people.
=======================================

But this concern you have for our black citizens, is of national interest.

Speech has had a destructive influence on young black men, speech of vengeance and not forgiveness for sins of the past that only God can heal.

Obama holds no such power, and in fact is a contributor of the problem with his own racist views and speech.

The man Wright is as racist as they come, and Obama shares this mans views, but he will not do it openly and transparently but in secret.

Its so deep in him, he cannot contain it as it spills out in different times.

His own racism will not bring Unity but it will cause Division, and is doing that now.

When you allow your feelings to be captured to your skin tone, you are being racist yourself just as if I allowed my skin tone to dictate my feelings.

We all must rise above skin
=======================================
blackmonrikker writes:

I voted my pain. I think I'm entitled.

---------------------------------------

Remember this when you use the word "entitle".

"the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them"

He has no respect to your skin tone, or mine.

You are not entitled to anything all of us are not

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker writes:

OK, girls, I'm up. I'm ready to play.
=============================================
Lets be serious
This is not a game, its about our countries future, our childrens future, both boys and girls. lassie.
============================================
blackmonrikker writes:
Yes, I voted for Obama for a specific reason. I'm black. I have two main issues: (1) the national debt. And (2) the 70% fatherless rate in black homes.

I am opposed to both. Vehemently.
=============================================
This is real
This is the sort of conversation we should be having, issues, not people.

Good to see you can get serious.
Those two subjects are common for all of us, black or white, all men, forget race.

==============================================

blackmonrikker writes:

Whatever you say about his policies, Obama is an excellent role model for black people. He loves his wife. He doesn't have any baby mama drama. Both he and his wife graduated cum laude from excellent universities with professional degrees. He's a strong proponent of education. He keeps himself in great shape.
==============================================
He is to represent all Americans though, not just blacks.

It is important he be a good role model for all, not just blacks, his policies have an affect on everyone, regardless of his personal life being a role model for the black folks.

This nation is about 70 percent white and if whites voted for race, he would not even have been in the Senate let alone the WH.

His records are not being made public and this is the reason I come here to call for transparency.

None of us have seen any records he graduated cum laude.

Claims such as this without documentation is his and your greatest gap of credibility.

Let him be transparent and open his records, including his BC.
==============================================
blackmonrikker writes:
I never blame black people's problems on "whitey", as some of you have surmised. It's not "whitey" who is making all these babies and then running off to suburbia. Single moms cannot teach a boy how to be a man. Without men, we'll never stand up and assert ourselves. Instead, we let an entire generation of boys be raised by people like Fifty Cent and Snoop Dogg.
=============================================
I am 65 years old and I remember when the black families I knew were very strong morally.

Over the years the policies from government has interfered in all families with their socialist programs that replaced the father.

Families of the poor no longer needed dad, the government became daddy and is the root cause of the destruction of the strong families, white or black.
==============================================

blackmonrikker writes:

I am opposed to this. And that's why I voted for Obama. Plus, I think he's smart. If he's like me, he sees what needs to be done with the deficit and the debt. I am giving him time. This TARP is a setback, but in my estimation his other alternatives were (1) long term depression and (2) war with our creditors. I believe the TARP was a pragmatic, if unpalatable, choice.
============================================

He is cunning, that is not the same thing as smart, not in my world anyway.
From what you say here I see you do not understand the real powers that run Washington DC.
Its the people who had the money to take an unknown, unproven freshman Senator and insert him into the WH.
His roots to power are not exposed in any above ground view, no more than an oak trees is.

Too much information that address's this I speak of to explain in a sentence, a paragraph or maybe even a book.

But, there is much below ground you are not informed about and I see it by what you write here.
Obama is a hired hand
==============================================
blackmonrikker writes:

So. The common wisdom is "vote your pain". I voted mine. He's addressing 50% of my main two issues. I'm confident he'll get around to addressing my other issue. That's a better rate of return than with any prior president.
==============================================

I would wish the common wisdom would stick to issues, not feelings

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker

You are the only turd here to float

carpenturr1 9 months ago

antoinette_lasalle wrote:

Seems to still be an open question as to whether dual citizenship at birth can coexcist with being a natural born citizen.
==================================
Not really
There was no such a thing as a dual citizen when the obama was born, not in America or Indonesia.

Every immigrant from another nation was required to take this oath at the time the obama was born.

The Oath of Allegiance

"I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

"I......renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen"

carpenturr1 9 months ago

yeti descendant

tsiya wrote:"If the Constitution does not stand inviolate, no one here is safe!"

yeti descendant responded:
"I agree, but find me a line where the Constitution denies the Feds ability to make new laws"

So show the law that gave the government the right to take over a Private Business.

None exist, and your support for the crime will not change it to being legal

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker

The country was divided by democrats and republicans.
You being a party hack for the obama are part of the problem.

Both parties are corrupt

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker
Here is a link to your brothers.

You black muslims and nazis are alike.

Farrakhan In His Own Words RULE Introduction
UPDATED: May 5, 2009
Introduction
On Jews On 'Jewish Conspiracies' On the Holocaust
On Jewish Involvement in the Slave Trade
On Israel On Dialogue with Jews On Whites On U.S. Government On Homosexuals On 'Mainstream' Blacks
For nearly 30 years, Louis Farrakhan has marked himself a notable figure on the extremist scene by making hateful statements targeting Jews, whites and homosexuals.

Farrakhan’s bigoted and anti-Semitic rhetoric has included statements calling whites “blue eyed devils” and Jews “bloodsuckers” that controlled the slave trade, the government, the media and various Black individuals and organizations. In 2006, he blamed Jews and Israel for the war in Iraq, for controlling Hollywood and for promoting what he considers immorality during his February Saviours' Day address in Chicago.

In a 2007 interview with Arabic-language television news network Al Jazeera, Farrakhan accused Jews of anti-Semitism, charging that “The real anti-Semites are those who came out of Europe and settled in Palestine, and now they call themselves the true Jews, when in fact, they converted to Judaism.”

http://www.adl.org/special_reports/farrakhan_own_words2/farrakhan_own_words.asp

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Vote Democratic

You sure are a whiny little cry baby

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Everyone in government should be placed on minimum wage.

Still be over paid, but its the law

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Vote Democratic

Your bitching is what is pathetic

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Expect a punk like the obama to act like a punk and he will not disappoint you.

We have globalists in positions of power is why this globe trotting muslim lover obama has yet to be stopped.

He will be stopped, not by the people or law, he has no respect for either, he is going against a much higher power than this fool understands

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You are the idiot, idiot blackmonrikker writes:

"So that's all the more reason why Obama shouldn't release any of his record"
==============================================

You are promoting anarchy and cover-up.

Promote it all you like, the truth is going to come out if you like it or not.

The Constitution, the Law requires his records to be opened to the Public.

Article IV

Section 1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records...............

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker "Am I wasting my time explaining U.S. law to you people?

You still haven't answered how Stanley Ann Dunham traveled to Kenya in 1961 when she didn't receive a passport until 1967. That's an inconvenient fact that the birfers don't want people to know."
==============================================

You waste your time for being a liar.

There is no more evidence Stanley Ann Dunham did not receive a PP until 1967 than there is the obama was born in Hawaii

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Is GM the only business to have ever went into bankruptcy?

no

It will not be the last either.

There is no such a thing in law or logic "too big to fail"

No more so than being to small to suceeed.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

yeti descendant wrote:
carpenturr- please, I beg, no birther arguments.
=======================================

I have no argument to make.
I have a demand he show his records and be transparent

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The problem is yeti descendant is the Constitution spells out the duties and does not go into everything some men can dream up.

You show me a single time in America any President, Congress or Senate took over a private business as this man is doing unlawfully

carpenturr1 9 months ago

This is NOT spam

Tuesday, June 9, 2009
Activity in Kerchner v Obama & Congress Case - 2nd Extension of time granted to Defendants
Activity in Kerchner et al v Obama & Congress et al Lawsuit - The motion by the defendants for the second extension in time to answer, move, or otherwise respond was granted. Their new deadline is June 29, 2009. You can read the full order at the link below. When you read the order you will see that the court addressed this second request for an extension in great detail in his five page order. On page two the Judge writes, "In their complaint Plaintiffs assert violations of their constitutional rights alleging that Defendants have failed to conclusively prove that President Obama is a natural born citizen and therefore may not be eligible to serve as President of the United States." Then on page four the Judge writes, "Plaintiffs' Complaint raises significant issues necessitating that the named Defendants engage competent counsel to represent their interests." The Judge points out that the Department of Justice still has not decided who is going to represent whom for the seven defendants in the case. Later he then writes, "The Court is confident that after all the attorneys enter their appearances on behalf of all Defendants, that the case will proceed expeditiously." The Judge of course noted that we opposed the extension. And previously on page two, the Judge noted, "The Court has also received numerous letters from non-parties opposing Defendants' motion [Doc. Nos. 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 24, 25]." The order was written and signed by U.S. Magistrate Judge Joel Schneider who serves at the:

United States Courthouse
400 Cooper Street
Camden NJ 08102-1570

I will comment in more detail later.

Link to a copy of the filed court document for this latest activity: http://www.scribd.com/doc/16253400/

Mario Apuzzo, Esq.
185 Gatzmer Avenue
Jamesburg NJ 08831
Email: apuzzo [AT] erols.com
TEL: 732-521-1900 ~ FAX: 732-521-3906
BLOG: http://puzo1.blogspot.com

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Moderator You hypocrite

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Actually yeti descendant

This is the only Job Requirements for a President.

Article II

Section 1. The executive power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his office during the term of four years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same term, be elected, as follows:

Each state shall appoint, in such manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a number of electors, equal to the whole number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or person holding an office of trust or profit under the United States, shall be appointed an elector.

The electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for two persons, of whom one at least shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves. And they shall make a list of all the persons voted for, and of the number of votes for each; which list they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates, and the votes shall then be counted. The person having the greatest number of votes shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such majority, and have an equal number of votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately choose by ballot one of them for President; and if no person have a majority, then from the five highest on the list the said House shall in like manner choose the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by States, the representation from each state having one vote; A quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. In every case, after the choice of the President, the person having the greatest number of votes of the electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal votes, the Senate shall choose from them by ballot the Vice President.

The Congress may determine the time of choosing the electors, and the day on which they shall give their votes; which day shall be the same throughout the United States.

No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.

In case of the removal of the President from office, or of his death, resignation, or inability to discharge the powers and duties of the said office, the same shall devolve on the Vice President, and the Congress may by law provide for the case of removal, death, resignation or inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what officer shall then act as President, and such officer shall act accordingly, until the disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

The President shall, at stated times, receive for his services, a compensation, which shall neither be increased nor diminished during the period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that period any other emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section 2. The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States; he may require the opinion, in writing, of the principal officer in each of the executive departments, upon any subject relating to the duties of their respective offices, and he shall have power to grant reprieves and pardons for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.

He shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, shall appoint ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, judges of the Supreme Court, and all other officers of the United States, whose appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by law: but the Congress may by law vest the appointment of such inferior officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the courts of law, or in the heads of departments.

The President shall have power to fill up all vacancies that may happen during the recess of the Senate, by granting commissions which shall expire at the end of their next session.

Section 3. He shall from time to time give to the Congress information of the state of the union, and recommend to their consideration such measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such time as he shall think proper; he shall receive ambassadors and other public ministers; he shall take care that the laws be faithfully executed, and shall commission all the officers of the United States.

Section 4. The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

No where can he lawfully exceed the written law.

To stay and be a nation of laws and not men he must be held accountable to written law himself.

No law passed in Congress can erase a single word or line of the US Constitution WITHOUT following the Amendment Process.

Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

yeti descendant writes:

I agree that laws aren't always enforced blindly and equally, but what does this have to do with the topic at hand?
================================================

Everything
For the government to take over private business and force a sale to a foreign corporation is a crime against every single reason law exists.

This takeover of private business as no legal, no matter what any court that backs it due to their politics says.

Have you ever read what the Job Description of the President is?

There has never been a time in America the Federal Government took over private business as now being done unlawfully.

There is no basis in law for such a thing to happen

carpenturr1 9 months ago

yeti descendant

This government is bring anarachy, just like the governments of Italy, Germany and Russia have done in the past.

Instead of enforcing law by blind justice that does not respect persons, rich poor or in-between, they quit enforcing some laws and abuse the law in other situations

carpenturr1 9 months ago

yeti descendant

You look at the cost of doing business in America.
All the unneeded weight comes from Government regulations, taxes, fees and government forced benefits.

Today, the people who work in Government have much better benefits than any auto worker, or at the least comparable.

The Government produces nothing, but cost.
At least the auto makers have given us all transportation.

All the jobs being created today are in low paying retail and high paying Government positions.

Everyone of us have a better chance of being named a CZAR of some sort by this crime ridden government of today than to get a good paying job.

All the while the basic costs of our NEEDS go up and up and up.

Food, Housing, Clothing, Transportation and Utilities etc. are all going up as the available jobs decrease in pay.

These are NEEDS, not luxury items we all must have.

As the Obama says it fine for Iran to have Nuclear Power, he says Americans MUST live by the SUN and the WIND!

Get real people, this idiot in the WH is intentionally destroying the American Economy

carpenturr1 9 months ago

If anyone will look at all the Government intrusion into the auto manufacturing and using the Law to make almost impossible demands and the heavy taxes the government extracts from ALL Business, you will have the answer as to why manufacturing is failing here.

And being intentionally sold to foreign governments.

America is being destroyed from with-in by an ABUSE OF POWER and CRIMINAL INTENT.

The reason is globalism for the elite and the morons among us do not get it how they are being used to transfer wealth to the very wealthy.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker
You have shown yourself a fool

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Tell us brainstein, just when do you expect your paycheck?

What an idiot you are cmfluteguy

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker

I do not take advice from idiots or morons, spammers or trolls like you

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Simply because a person is the Official Interpreter of SWAHILI ...DOES NOT MEAN, he cannot SPEAK LUO.

Any 1st Grader can point this out for you in 2 minutes time, and not take a day as it would for a lawyer.

LOL (moron)

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Ask his grandmother, she says he was born in Kenya, not Phil Berg.

This must be settled in an OPEN COURT.
The Court is the ONLY place we have to TRY THE FACTS.

quote:

"AFFIDAVIT OF REVEREND KWELI SHUHUBIA
I, Kweli Shuhubia am over the age of eighteen (18) and not a party to the within action. If called to do so, I could and would competently testify under oath as follows I am an ordained minister of the gospel of Jesus Christ and a native evangelist and translator for the Anabaptist churches in Kenya. I am the official Swahili translator for the annual Anabaptists Conference held each year in Africa, working with the American bishops sitting upon the Continental Presbytery of the Anabaptists Churches of Africa. I am fluent in Swahili and in English. I am a former teacher in Kenya, and travel
extensively in the ministries of the Anabaptists Churches of Africa throughout Kenya, Uganda and the Sudan.
It is common knowledge throughout the Christian and Muslim communities in Kenya that Barack Hussein Obama, Jr., the United States Presidential candidate, was born in Mombosa Kenya. Senator Obama's grandmother still resides in the village of Alego-Kogello, approximately 37 miles from Kisumu City.
During my interview of Sarah Obama; I called Bishop Ron McRae in the United States from my mobile number. I advised Bishop McRae that I was present with Ms. Obama in her home, and wished for him to speak with her. Bishop McRae informed me he would call me right back, to avoid the international costs on my personal mobile phone. Bishop McRae subsequently called me back; Bishop McRae requested permission to electronically record his telephone conversations with Ms. Obama, to which I agreed.
Due to bad telephone connections Bishop McRae had to call me back three [3] times, before we were able to continue our conversation. The telephone interview conducted by Bishop McRae was conducted on loud speaker (speaker phone). During the interview conversation, one of Ms. Obama's grandsons's and myself acted as Swahili translators, and as Bishop McRae talked to and questioned Ms. Obama, we would translate what Bishop McRae said to Ms. Obama in Swahili, and then we would translate her Swahili responses to Bishop McRae in English. Ms. Obama can fluently speak Swahili in her native dialect, but cannot read or write.
Bishop McRae asked Ms. Obama specifically, "Were you present when your grandson Barack Obama was born in Kenya?" This was asked to her in translation twice, and both times she specifically replied, "Yes". It appeared Ms. Obama's relatives and her grandson, handling the translating,, had obviously been versed to counter such facts with the purported information from the American news media that Obama was born in Hawaii. Despite this, Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama was very adamant that her grandson, Senator Barack Hussein Obama, was born in Kenya, and that she was present and witnessed his birth in Kenya, not the United States. When Ms. Obama's grandson attempted to counter his grandmother's clear responses to the question, verifying the birth of Senator Obama in Kenya, Bishop McRae asked her grandson, how she could be present at Barack Obama's birth if the Senator was born in Hawaii, but the grandson would not answer the question, instead he repeatedly tried to insert that, "No, No, No.
He was born in the United States!" But during the conversation, Ms. Sarah Hussein Obama never changed her reply that she was in deed present when Senator Barack Obama was born in Kenya."

http://www.obamanotqualified.com/grandmother.htm

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The entire issue of the government forcing themselves into private business is an outrage in itself.

In fact its criminal

carpenturr1 9 months ago

stealthb2000

Are you calling people who are making a simple request that Obama show his records as something that makes you mad enough to begin killing people?

That is how it comes across.
The refusal to be open and transparent works up anger as well.

Both political parties as so corrupt today there is no confidence left for many of us in either one.

I find your threats to be obnoxious to the extreme.
I am also a Vietnam Era Veteran

The Obama has to power to make it right, SHOW

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Obviously afraid to be questioned

carpenturr1 9 months ago

demanding respect does not get it done

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Twitchy , YOU ARE NOTHING BUT A TROLL.

people are asking for documents is all, very normal request for TRANSPARENCY.

GET LOST TROLL

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Here is all the posts by twitchy, the TROLL.
Click on this posters name and read the trash this poster comes to troll the boards with.

Comments Posted
Twitchy 1 minute ago

Warning Report Abuse
citar,
Re: http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com

Another fanatic. I've only seen such convoluted logic on other wacko (wacko - one who is obsessed with fringe theories, usually political, for which there is little or no evidence) websites. There's nothing secret about when Arthur's father was naturalized. You can find the naturalization certificate at http://www.scribd.com/doc/11067180/William-Arthur-father-of-President-Chester-Arthur-Naturalization-certificate-1843-Congress. There wasn't an issue in 1880 about Arthur's status as a "natural born citizen" either, because he was one. Hinman pursued the "born in Canada, or maybe Ireland" tack because that was the only one that counted.

And Charles Guiteau, Garfield's assassin, was not "a fanatical Chester Arthur supporter". He was a fanatical Garfield supporter, who believed that he was single-handedly responsible for Garfield's election. He shot Garfield because he wasn't given an ambassadorship for his largely imaginary efforts.

More BS.
Twitchy 52 minutes ago

Warning Report Abuse
Sorry, but the birthers keep tossing out complete garbage and repeatedly ignore the facts and evidence. What else can they be, except nutballs, or other terms indicating extremist fanatics? As blackmonrikker posted elsewhere:
That's usually what happens when the same question gets asked over and over and over after a reasonable answer has already been supplied.

Q: "Say, buddy, what color is the sky?
A: "Blue"
Q: "Yeh, but what's the REAL color?"
A: "Blue"
Q: "That's what Obama would have you BELIEVE. What's the REAL color?"
A: "Look up. It's BLUE."
Q: "He's paid MILLIONS to get you to believe that. But think about it: Why would he pay that much IF the sky is SUPPOSED to be Yellow? Hmmmmmmmm?"
A: "Idiot."
Q: "You must be a liberal. (Looking elsewhere) Hey, Buddy!! What color is the sky?"
Twitchy 57 minutes ago

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As for minds like concrete, look in a mirror.
Twitchy 1 hour ago

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C Session,
I thought imeditado was quite clear, and the fact that you can't see it only demonstrates how right he is. You see everything in black and white, with no gray areas. Liberal vs. conservative, Democrat vs. Republican. Most of the country doesn't really give a sh*t about your extremist views. Both you, and your largely imaginary enemies on the extreme left, are irrelevant minorities.
Twitchy 1 hour ago

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carpenturr1,
You aren't here to ask for transparency in government, which, BTW, has nothing to do with the purpose of this site. You were sent here by WND to make trouble and disrupt the legitimate business of this site, which is to answer the question "How can we strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness by making government more transparent, participatory, and collaborative?".

If you'll notice, that's not a request for random questions. It's a request for ideas on a specific subject. BS about BO's BC is out of scope.

You've got no facts, no evidence, nothing at all except wild imaginings, fraud and outright lies, and you ignore or dismiss out-of-hand all the actual facts and evidence, yet you call me the extremist and troll! What a laugh riot!

Any real American is laughing at you for your gullibility and stupidity.
Twitchy 10 hours ago

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You're getting incoherent again. 5th graders shouldn't smoke crack.

And you could never be president. Open your mouth and everyone would vote for anyone else.
Twitchy 11 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
"The constitution is far more important than Obama."

Yes, it is. Which is another excellent reason for him to ignore all you wingnuts. The Constitution doesn't require him to satisfy anyone except Congress.

cloudscape,
Right, you'll just shut up. Actually, you'll just go "Hey, this doctor is dead. This BC is another fraud" or something similar.

blackmonrikker said it right:
Q: "Say, buddy, what color is the sky?
A: "Blue"
Q: "Yeah, but what's the REAL color?"
A: "Blue"
Q: "That's what Obama would have you BELIEVE. What's the REAL color?"
A: "Look up. It's BLUE."
Q: "He's paid MILLIONS to get you to believe that. But think about it: Why would he pay that much IF the sky is SUPPOSED to be Yellow? Hmmmmmmmm?"
A: "Idiot."
Q: "You must be a liberal. (Looking elsewhere) Hey, Buddy!! What color is the sky?"
Twitchy 11 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate. Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth. He displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship, including that he was born in Honolulu. Case closed.
Twitchy 11 hours ago

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However, this is a good, if inappropriate, topic, if it will get some of you nutballs off here.

Gossip is all this 'controversy' really is.
Twitchy 11 hours ago

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cloudscape,
Try unemployed, due to the mess your champions made of the economy. Not that BO knows what the hell he's doing to fix it.

However, the BC controversy is a manufactured piece of crap. To briefly recap:

Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate. Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth. He displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship, including that he was born in Honolulu. Case closed.

In fact, somewhere around here there's a (fake) list of Communist rules for taking over a society. Two of those indicate that you're a Commie dupe!

LMAO!
Twitchy 11 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
Companies that want to keep good employees don't do this. Companies that want to stay in business don't do this.

If your company does this, find a new job, then walk out on your current employer. If he treats you like that, you don't owe him a thing.

And this topic has nothing to do with the purpose of this site.
Twitchy 11 hours ago

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gingerdr,

You're right. There is no "honest moral code one deems honor in our society anymore."

Of course, some of the clearest evidence for that is you birthers, who put political fanaticism above truth and morality.
Twitchy 11 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
Oooh, and #2
2. Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance.

More proof that WND and the birthers are part of a Commie plot?
Twitchy 11 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
Wow, look at #3:
3. Destroy the people's faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule, and obloquy (verbal abuse of a person or a thing).

Sounds just like WND and the birthers. Communist stooges!

eski,
If you've found actual, as opposed to "I don't want to believe it" errors, on snopes, have you reported them to snopes, with, of course, your sources for believing that they are errors? If not, you're just blowing smoke.

In my experience, they do a exceptional job of presenting all sides of an issue.
Twitchy 11 hours ago

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Now all we need are stickers to put on these yard signs: "www.factcheck.org".

LMAO
Twitchy 12 hours ago

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citar,

Look up Chester A. Arthur, 21st President of the US. According to your criteria, he was not a "natural born citizen". Therefore, by precedent, your criteria are wrong.

BTW, what could British law possibly have to do with US citizenship? Is the US required to apply British law to US citizens?
Twitchy 12 hours ago

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luvwith,
Where's LBJ? And Ford?
Twitchy 12 hours ago

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luvwith,
Now you're spamming the site with off-the-wall, and largely incomprehensible, rants.

And, when did this become a political forum? This topic isn't any more relevant to this site than the birther topics.

It's a sad statement on both the state of the American education system, and the lack of respect for others in our society.
Twitchy 12 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
Basically, all of the comments about BO's BC are off-topic. Here.

Particularly since the birthers have no facts, but lots of fraud and lies on their side. This isn't a political blog.
Twitchy 13 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
That should probably be "Don't waste everybody else's time on this site".
Twitchy 13 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
I agrre with brown.jean. A major part of the problem is our byzantine tax laws.

However, probably the only practical solution is to junk the whole system and move to something like the FairTax,
Twitchy 13 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
As proven by the replies, this "idea" is just more inappropriate political posturing.

All I'm seeing is the removal of spam and posts that have nothing to do with the purpose of the site. This is NOT a political forum.

Therefore none of it is censorship.
Twitchy 13 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
All I'm seeing is the removal of spam and posts that have nothing to do with the purpose of the site. This is NOT a political forum.

And I would think that, just possibly, the moderators are overwhelmed with all the BS from the birther crybabies. BTW, repeating a lie over and over does not make it true. Someone should tell WND that.

Unfortunately, voting doesn't mean much if you've been invaded by single-issue fanatics. One of the reasons that we are NOT a democracy.
Twitchy 13 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
All I'm seeing is the removal of spam and posts that have nothing to do with the purpose of the site. This is NOT a political forum.

And would those "several news accounts" all be from WND, or be based on input from WND?
Twitchy 13 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
What censorship? All I'm seeing is the removal of spam and posts that have nothing to do with the purpose of the site. This is NOT a political forum.
Twitchy 14 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
and, phylmike34, would you please quit spamming us with your garbage.
Twitchy 14 hours ago

Warning Report Abuse
The truth is, these topics have nothing to do with the purpose of this site. You're all acting like spoiled little babies, who've never been taught any manners or consideration for either the rules or other people.

Yes, you have a right to the truth, and to demand that the Constitution be followed. But this is not the appropriate place.

Why don't you go down to your local hospital, force your way into an operating room and start chanting "Show us the BC"?
Twitchy 14 hours ago

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phylmike34,
From your spam: "Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

So, is WND lying when they state, earlier in the article, "The website of the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands, however, states clearly the certification of live birth touted by the Obama campaign, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs and a host of other Obama defenders is not acceptable as a form of identification to qualify under this program."?

"Additional controversy over where Obama was born came when the woman the president says is his paternal grandmother, Sarah Obama, claimed to have been present at her grandson's birth in Mombasa, Kenya."

And that's another lie. If you listen to the entire tape, not the edited version you can find on YouTube, she (actually, his paternal step-grandmother) was claiming to have been present in Kenya when BO was born in Hawaii. Translation can be tricky, but the YouTube tape was doctored.
Twitchy 15 hours ago

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cwvidaho,
I'm sorry, but what part of "How can we strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness by making government more transparent, participatory, and collaborative?" does your topic address? It's a political rant, admittedly more sane than most of the spam here, but it's still inappropriate for this site.
Twitchy 15 hours ago

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pajari,
I'm sorry, but putting up a website doesn't make their fantasies any more real. And selectively extracting portions of legal opinions out of context doesn't provide any real support.
Twitchy 15 hours ago

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carpenturr1,

Since the lies and BS you are posting are not relevant to the purpose of this site, you are the spammer. Quit being an obnoxious ass and get a real life.
Twitchy 15 hours ago

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battleforce3_327,
I take it you read the same WND article that phylmike34 posted. Did you note that it is for a program to provide land to native Hawaiians, meaning those with at least 50% Hawaiian blood. BO obviously doesn't qualify, for that, so it's a moot point. Did you read: "In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green," the qualifications state. "This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

Note the last sentence. They will accept the Certification of Live Birth, which puts the lie to earlier allegations in the same article.

And, if they keep that requirement, what are they going to do when those born since 2001 reach an age to apply for a homestead? Apparently there are no longer any long-form BCs being issued, at least not by hospitals. The birth is now registered electronically.
Twitchy 1 day ago

Warning Report Abuse
Considering that the people who think I'm stupid seem to have IQs well below room temperature (Centigrade), I'm not too impressed.
Twitchy 1 day ago

Warning Report Abuse
"How can we strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness by making government more transparent, participatory, and collaborative?"

That's the purpose of this site. What does a rant about executive orders have to do with that?

There's nothing "illegal and actionable" about requiring you to keep on topic and not post disruptively.

You seem to be the ones displaying symptoms of NPD. Acting like spoiled little babies who don't want to follow the rules.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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William M. Riggles,
I don't think Obama has had control of education spending for the last 50 years, which is where the current problems come from. And I don't think that throwing more money at the problem is necessarily going to improve anything.
Twitchy 1 day ago

Warning Report Abuse
rbsteup,
Whether or not BO has posted a legitimate BC, or whether he is eligible, or qualified, to be President, are issues totally outside the scope of this site, and posts on those subjects simply don't belong here. That's got nothing to do with freedom of speech. There are plenty of other places to rant about those topics. So those who are doing so here are just being disruptive, rude and, basically, demonstrating that they're arrogant, inconsiderate a**holes. Or just plain stupid, take your pick.

I see they have actually installed or activated a filter here, and the above demonstrates how ridiculously easy it is to bypass such silliness.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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William M. Riggles,
I largely agree. The bailout is a perfect example of privatizing profits, while socializing risks. The money could have been used more effectively to jump start the economy in several other ways, generally aimed at the bottom of the economy, where the hurt is, instead of at the top, where the fault is. Mortgage assistance directly to the people paying mortgages would be one way.

There's even a proposal that I saw, where the government would offer a few million people nearing retirement a million apiece to retire early, provided that they either bought a new house or paid off their old one, and bought a new car. A few million new jobs opening up, a few million mortgages paid off, a few million new car orders. Wouldn't that jump start the economy!
Twitchy 1 day ago

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pajari,
The American Grand Jury? Are you a member of the Republic of Texas? Or one of those "Tax Courts" set up by tax protesters?

The American Grand Jury has no legal standing. It's another fantasy and fraud.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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dandapper111,
Oh, and Polarik is a proven fraud.

LMAO.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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carpenturr1, I'd like to see your long form BC and school records. Just because I don't believe you're an American citizen and have any business on this site. Or that you're real, in fact.

I mean, it's just a simple request for records, isn't it? What do you have to hide?

LMAO.
Twitchy 1 day ago

Warning Report Abuse
BTW, carpenturr1, I'd like to see your long form BC and school records. Just because I don't believe you're an American citizen and have any business on this site. Or that you're real, in fact.
Twitchy 1 day ago

Warning Report Abuse
Sorry, that should have been: A "natural born citizen" would have to meet the requirements for "natural born citizen" at the time he was born, not 14 years later, when Arthur's father was naturalized.
Twitchy 1 day ago

Warning Report Abuse
A "natural born citizen" would have to be a citizen at the time he was born, not 14 years later, when Arthur's father was naturalized. At least try to present a consistent legal theory.

And, since Obama was born in Hawaii, as proven by the BC that everybody in the world has seen by now, he was born an American citizen.

So stop lying to people.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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phylmike34 ,
This must be at least the 6th topic I've seen you post this crap on. You are now, officially, a filthy spammer.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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bellevuedan,
How about "Spamming the forum with off-topic posts"?
Twitchy 1 day ago

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phylmike34,
This must be the fifth topic I've seen you post this on. Didn't your mother teach you any manners?
Twitchy 1 day ago

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cashman57,
No, I haven't bothered to look for it because it's totally meaningless.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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battleforce3_327,

I'm so sorry. I didn't know the capital of Hawaii was Indianapolis!

That's your research? That Indiana has different policies and forms than Hawaii does?

The BC that BO posted in the internet has all the necessary information on it to prove citizenship. There's nothing additional on the long form that's needed for any legitimate purpose.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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ldrancer,
Once again, have you ever actually read the Constitution?

I've, several times, taken an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States from all enemies, foreign and domestic. Despite your claim to "defend the constituion", you appear to be one of those enemies, as well as being an enemy of "Truth, Justice and the American Way". So, I will continue to defend the Constitution, by posting facts in an attempt to counter the lies you continue to spread.

Two notes: It doesn't matter if you believe it to be the truth if it's really a lie. And congratulations: your attempts to write are getting a bit more coherent.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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phylmike34,
This the third topic I've seen you post this pile of barf in. Are you that stupid, or just an inconsiderate a**hole. Repeating lies doesn't make them come true.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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auferret,

Actually, it depends on the law at the time BO was born. If he actually had been born in Kenya, she didn't meet the then current qualifications to confer citizenship on him.

However, he was born in Hawaii. Even his paternal step-grandmother (the one ldrancer, our 5th grade host, calls his "grandma" (BTW, kid, your spelling is getting better)) says so:
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2009/03/sarah-obama-speaks/
Twitchy 1 day ago

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dandapper111,
As mentioned elsewhere, Polarik is a fraud.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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Rob,
Didn't you know? FactCheck doesn't agree with the birthers on this, so they must be biased.

The whole thing is just more conspiracy theorist garbage. The psychology is "I'm right, and the lack of facts to prove my side is just more proof that there's really a conspiracy. And any facts that purport to disprove the conspiracy are just proof that the conspiracy is even more widespread than I thought."

Wingnuts leading wackos around by the nose.

And that's not name-calling. That's an accurate description of their behavior.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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Is calling phylmike34 a spammer name-calling, or simply the truth?
Twitchy 1 day ago

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phylmike34,
Please stop spamming us with irrelevant garbage.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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dandapper111,
Polarik is a fraud. Real security experts, some hired by WND for the purpose, have looked at the images and say they are legit. And those same experts have looked at the work of Polarik and others, and declared much of it to be deliberate fraud.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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citar,
No, they did not say that they had the original physical BC on file. They said that they had the original BC "on record". I wish someone could clarify just what they meant, because that description could mean that the original was destroyed, and they have the data on a computer somewhere.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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carpenturr1,
How many topics have you started on this same subject? How many have you seen on this subject? How many of them have anything to do with the purpose of this site?

Since the answer to the third question is probably zero, I feel safe in describing you as a spammer.

Particularly since all of the birther topics are based on lies, innuendo, fraud and NO FACTS.

Attacking spammers is a net positive social good.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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skip_jcksn,

I'm pretty sure the FBI has already done all that. I certain they aren't going to share that information with you.

Mainly because it's none of your damn business.
Twitchy 1 day ago

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kandis1105,
You might look up Chester A Arthur, 21st President of the US. His father was Irish, and was not a US citizen at the time Arthur was born. By precedent, your argument that both parents need to be citizens is disproven.
Twitchy 2 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
Or why you think it has anything to do with this site's purpose. This isn't a politics forum.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."
attributed to many different people, none of them birthers.
Twitchy 2 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
Plus, this site actually has a purpose, which is collecting constructive ideas on how to make government more transparent, participatory, and collaborative, and discussing them.

Whining "Show us the BC" isn't part of that purpose, and, in fact, shows complete disregard for the very concept. And screaming it 50,000 times doesn't make it any more true, or any less stupid. Just shows even more your contempt for anyone you don't agree with.

Go ride your bike through some hospital corridors.
Twitchy 2 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
If you would read the rules (can you read?), you'd see that this site has a purpose, and whining "Show us the BC" isn't part of it.

Also, duplicate topics and spam aren't welcome. Birthers have been posting plenty of both, typical of wingnuts.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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BTW, thanks for this. I was beginning to think the whole site was nothing but "Show us the birth certificate" spam.
Twitchy 2 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
I'm interested in that "62% of Americans threatened me in one form or another." Did you break that down into liberal and conservative? Why or why not?

One thing you're displaying is very black-and-white thinking. The world is far more complex than "liberal vs. conservative". Even if you accept the simplistic "left-right" political paradigm, it's a line, not two points. There's a center and every variation between the extremes.

A better paradigm is the two-dimensional model with "personal freedom" on one axis and "economic freedom" on the other, promoted by the libertarians. The reality, of course, is far more complex than that. An accurate model would require a separate dimension for each issue.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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There are plenty of successful blacks. The main difference is that, for most of them, their parents valued education and achievement, rather than telling them "don't act white".

Much of that is the fault of the welfare culture. You see too many from multigenerational welfare families of all races with the same attitudes.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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So, what "documents and information" have you researched?

Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate. Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth. He displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship, including that he was born in Honolulu.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate. Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth. He displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship, including that he was born in Honolulu.

So, yeah, I have to wonder why this issue is continuing when it was resolved for any rational person months ago.

And I see plenty of name-calling by both liberals and conservatives.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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That might be easier if there weren't so many people spamming the site.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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Still spamming, kid?
Twitchy 2 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate. Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth. He displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship, including that he was born in Honolulu.

So how is he hiding his birth certificate.

And how are his lawyers doing anything other than asking the courts to obey the law?
Twitchy 2 days ago

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Well, yes, but claiming that someone is a foreigner, when they're not, is also repeating lies.

One is no better than the other.

So, if you don't want to be repeating lies, you ought to try to find out the truth, rather than just repeating lies.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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So are you saying that my birth certificate is a fake?

That makes you a complete loon.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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ramjet767,
The Homeland program will accept the Certification. Their website simply says that the Certificate will speed things up. Since, apparently, the Certificate doesn't exist for anyone born after 2001....

And, having read Dr. Fukino's statement (http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf) about the BC, I note that it says that they have BO's original BC "on record", not that they have the original in physical form. Combining that with the article posted by evreport, it seems at least possible that the original now exists only as bits on DASD somewhere on a State of Hawaii computer.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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ohnoonetwogo,
So, can you post it on the internet so we can all see it?

My "critical attitude" comes from the "attitude of superior knowledge" displayed by the birthers, who are usually passing on lies and misinformation. I try to counter with facts, which can typically be verified by anyone who can use Google.

Privacy laws exist to protect everyone. Just like the Bill of Rights applies to everyone, and making exceptions weakens the protections for everyone.

As for the governor of Hawaii sealing Obama's BC, I went to WND to get the most negative portrayal of that that I'd be likely to find anywhere. While the headline and the first paragraph say that, nothing else in the article supports anything except obeying Hawaii state law. The only thing they've got is an "anonymous source", that may or may not exist. More BS. http://www.wnd.com/index.php?pageId=79174
Twitchy 2 days ago

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No, I have a problem with liars and frauds. And ignorant, gullible fools. What you believe, what your opinions are, is totally irrelevant, if it doesn't agree with at least some facts.

I also have a problem with arrogant, inconsiderate a**holes, who think the rules don't apply to them.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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tilapia2006,
The Certification of Live Birth is not the equivalent of an unsigned Bill of Sale. The CoLB is an official, state-certified document that is the birth certificate, for all official purposes. You simply refuse to accept the law. And the facts.

Obama isn't releasing the long-form because, in reality, THERE IS NO CONTROVERSY. What there is, is a bunch of made-up BS that should have taken up about 5 seconds of the nation's time, but is being pushed by a bunch of crackpots and gullible conspiracy theorist followers.

What relevance does "attending physician, hospital name, footprints, etc." have to the issue of Obama's citizenship? The birthers are just looking for the long-form so they have something else they can whine and quibble about.

"X was the attending physician, but he says that he never delivered Obama."

"No, he says that federal privacy law won't let him discuss a patient's medical care without authorization from the patient."

"WHAT'S OBAMA HIDING?"

ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ETC. ad nauseum.

It doesn't matter what the original birth certificates looked like. If you ask for a copy of your Hawaiian birth certificate NOW, what you get is what Obama showed everybody. That's all he needs to prove citizenship, and THAT's what this is supposed to be about, not the whiny-baby birthers screaming "Show me the BC".
Twitchy 2 days ago

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cashman57,
I haven't even thought of trying to find that information, because it's totally meaningless, a diversionary tactic, nothing more. Obama's campaign committee put up the first pictures. You think Obama didn't know about it, or they did it without telling him?
Twitchy 2 days ago

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battleforce3_327,
To get a long-form, you also have to provide a valid reason for them to go to the extra effort and expense. This BS isn't a valid reason. The short-form contains all the necessary information.

I doubt you've looked at the hi-res photos at factcheck.org. And only the first picture posted had the registration number blacked out. That was supposedly because Obama's campaign staff wasn't sure if there was personal information coded in it (a design error often found in older computer system designs/designers). None of the subsequent pictures had anything blacked out.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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ohnoonetwogo,
The effects you see are because it's a low-res photo. You can find better photos at http://www.factcheck.org/UploadedFiles/birth_certificate_1.jpg. Just keep incrementing the digit at the end. There are at least 7 of them.

And the governor of Hawaii never sealed Obama's information. She didn't need to. It would violate both federal and state law to release it to just anybody.

Ever hear of identity theft?

As for "African" vs "negro", Hawaii, at that time (I don't know about now) just put down for "race" whatever the parents told them. "Race" is a pretty meaningless classification. And Obama Sr was certainly "African".

Did you get your recent copy of your birth certificate from Hawaii?

Why would a BC necessarily reflect an adoption, particularly if it wasn't an infant adoption?

And you're taking Obama's word for his being adopted, but not, apparently, for anything else. How about some proof that he was OFFICIALLY adopted.

As for your test: I'm sorry that you're gullible and ignorant. I'm trying to do my best to rectify that, but most of the gullible and ignorant apparently WANT TO BE gullible and ignorant. Instead of investigating the facts, they just keep repeating what they want to believe, even when the bulk of the evidence says they're wrong.

FACTS. EVIDENCE. So far, you've got nothing but the usual lies and BS.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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cashman57,
Obama's campaign posted the document on the web. Have you heard anyone deny that it's his birth certificate, other than the birthers, who only display their ignorance.

You're the current king of irrelevant. But, on this subject, that'll probably last less than a day.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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ramjet767,
Didn't one of the frauds who claimed that Obama's images were Photoshopped also claim that that could be detected? Would your image stand up to inspection by experts. Obama's did, to experts provided by WND, last August.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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ohnoonetwogo,
Is telling the truth name-calling? You are gullible and ignorant.

No, anyone canNOT get a Certification (not Certificate) of Live Birth from Hawaii. That's a lie you were told that you accepted without question.

What you have seen on the internet is an official extract from the database set up by the State of Hawaii from the information contained on Obama's Certificate (not Certification) of Live Birth. If someone asks the State of Hawaii for an official copy of their birth certificate, what they get the extract, the Certification of Live Birth, with the required signature and raised seal to amke it an official copy. That's been true since 2001, when Hawaii modernized their system.

You evidently do NOT have "the ability to think for myself and weigh all evidence", because you've uncritically swallowed all the BS created by a bunch of partisan loonies, without doing any investigation on your own.

Gullible. And ignorant.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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tilapia2006,
Yes, the long-form is filed in Hawaii's archives right now, along with every other birth certificate ever filed with the State. So what?

If you had been born in Hawaii, and asked, today, for an official copy of your birth certificate, what you would get is the Certification of Live Birth. That is your birth certificate, for official purposes. That is proof of citizenship, for official purposes. There's no need to look at the long-form. There's nothing on the long-form that is needed to prove Obama's citizenship that isn't on the short-form BC.

More and more states, as they modernize, are doing the same thing. I would hope that some, now that imaging and storage are getting so cheap, would changes to storing hi-res images of the original BC, and just print that out when needed. But that's not the way it is right now in Hawaii.

Again, what need is there to look at the long-form BC? What information do you need that isn't on the short form?
Twitchy 2 days ago

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nemesispaladin,
You, or somebody, just made all that up. There is no current legal definition of "Natural Born Citizen".

And you might look up Chester A. Arthur, whose father was naturalized 14 years after Arthur was born. Was he a "natural-born citizen"? The idea didn't seem to bother anyone in 1880, when he ran for Vice President. Nor did it seem to bother anybody when he became the 21st President in September, 1881, after Garfield was assassinated.

Of course, you should probably be more interested in Charles J. Guiteau, Garfield's somewhat unsane assassin.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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tilapia2006,
You are either misinformed, or lying. The certification of Live Birth is not "merely accepted as de facto information from the parent". It is an extract from the database built from the original birth certificate. It contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship. It is accepted by the State Department and every state in the country for that purpose, as long as it has the required signature and raised seal, which Obama's does.

As for your reply to evreport, did you even bother to read what they posted? Your reply is totally off-the-wall. The State of Hawaii, apparently since 2001, no longer issues a copy of the Certificate of Live Birth when someone asks for their birth certificate. They print off a Certification of Live Birth, stamp the back, apply the raised seal, and send that out. That is the official copy of the birth certificate these days.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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jparchery02,
Not a real birth certificate? It's all you get from the State of Hawaii these days.

Again, if someone born in Hawaii asks for a copy of their birth certificate today, what they get is a Certification of Live Birth.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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OMG, you're a New World Order fruitcake!

I'd be LMAO, but you actually seem to be serious.

How many tinfoil hats do you own?

As for "Under the law, failure to respond is an admission of guilt", you really should read up on that before posting something, that appertains to specific circumstances, as a general rule, misstated to mean something different.
Twitchy 2 days ago

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thoragibson,
Nothing to certify on the back? Funny, I'm looking at my BC right now. The front is a copy of the original. The only thing on the back is a preprinted label: "This is to certify that this is a true and current reproduction of the record filed in the Section of Vital Records, [State] Department of Health and Social Services, Division of Health." Then it's signed and dated by the "Director, Bureau of Health Statistics".

Based on the picture from FactCheck, Hawaii uses rubber stamps for the same purpose.

And what facts do you have that Obama was NOT born "here"? Your desire that it be so is not convincing.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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You seem to have this odd idea, popular among nutcases, that constantly repeating a lie will make it true.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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Your opinion doesn't count. Proof?
Twitchy 3 days ago

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Which has already been posted.

BTW, you heard wrong. Russia is a capitalist state now. But I wouldn't expect you to know that.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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Whatever I've got, it's clearly a lot more than you've got.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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obelus,
Now, ldrancer, there's a fine example of your typical birther. Enjoy the company!
Twitchy 3 days ago

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I'm sorry, if I stood in the "i mdumb line", I'd have to stand behind you. And it doesn't look like you've got the brains to wipe your ass, so I probably wouldn't like the smell.

And, yeah, sure, you're an American. Does your town know the town fool got access to a computer?
Twitchy 3 days ago

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Still nothing worthwhile to say? No facts, no arguments, no brains?

You're going to fail this writing assignment!
Twitchy 3 days ago

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Poor little baby!
Twitchy 3 days ago

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Like I said to you elsewhere, I doubt that you have ever actually read the Constitution.

But you, more and more, appear to be an immature and inconsiderate little brat who badly needs a spanking.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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So you still don't have any facts, any arguments, or any sources, except YouTube. Must suck to be you.

No, what makes me frustrated and 'desperate' is seeing the level of ignorance and stupidity that passes for education in this country. You can write coherently, which puts you way above most birthers, but you don't seem to able to think for yourself.

And, as mentioned many times before, he's shown an official birth certificate. Nobody's demonstrated any need for anything more. But that won't stop the whining.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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You don't have any facts on your side. You probably don't even have any sources, just stuff you've read in forums on the internet, without checking any of the links (if there were any links). You wouldn't know the truth if it stood up in front of you and punched you in the face. You're ignorant and gullible.

You're obviously immature, and without any critical thinking skills. I bet you've never even read the Constitution, and wouldn't understand it if you did.

You're American, huh!?!?! How long did you serve, and in what branch of service? I'd be willing to bet that you couldn't pass the psych.

No, fifth-grade troll is being generous.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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No, it appears to be a rant, not a suggestion. Perhaps if you actually phrased it as a suggestion....
Twitchy 3 days ago

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ldrancer ,
Do you have any sources, other than your fevered imagination, for any of your crap?

And do you have any proof that you were born? You write like a random word generator, not a human being. Did you go to school, past the fifth grade? Because if you did, you should sue the school system.

You're not only making yourself look bad, you're making all birthers look bad (as if it was possible for them to look any worse). Or are you an Obama shill, here to make birthers look bad?
Twitchy 3 days ago

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As for my wife, if you want your kids to learn, for real, then you do want her to be their teacher. That may or may not apply to other teachers, in public or private schools.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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thoragibson,
Do you have any proof, or even any facts, on your side? From where, just stuff you've picked up from nut-job websites on the internet?

I've read Hawaiian statutes, I've looked at factcheck, I've looked at news articles, I've even looked at WND. Half the stuff WND says about the issue is misdirection, if not outright lies.

What makes you think that the Certification of Live Birth isn't real? Has ANY reliable source said so? Even WND said that many of the claims that it was a fraud were themselves manufactured frauds.

No, based on the full range of evidence, I've got to say the entire issue is being pushed by liars to gullible and ignorant people. And incoherent fifth grade trolls like ldrancer.

It's no wonder Michael Medved thinks birthers are "crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative imposters" who are "the worst enemy of the conservative movement" and "make us look sick, troubled and not suitable for civilized company."
Twitchy 3 days ago

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madspartan,

You've got to be kidding. This is an event from 48 years ago. In order to fake a Certificate of Live Birth all you'd have to do is get the names of doctors and witnesses who are long dead. That should be easy.

So, even if BO released his long-form BC, the birthers would still be screaming "fake".
Twitchy 3 days ago

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ldrancer,
This site has a purpose, and the posts about Obama's birth certificate, besides being ignorant garbage, have nothing to do with the purpose of the site. If you don't have anything to contribute that is relevant to the purpose, you've got no business here. Quit being an inconsiderate ass and either contribute or leave.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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ldrancer,
Still busy demonstrating your immaturity and trollness, I see.

It's releasing the fact that he was a patient, which is medical information.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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Gullible and ignorant. No wonder Michael Medved thinks birthers are "crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative imposters" who are "the worst enemy of the conservative movement" and "make us look sick, troubled and not suitable for civilized company."

Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate. Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth. He displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship, including that he was born in Honolulu. Case closed.

Quit believing all the lies your right-wing nut-job masters are feeding you, and do some actual research. Oh, wait, that might require actual thought.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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You're a fruitcake, posting garbage that has nothing to do with the purpose of this site. Go deface some other site.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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You people redefine the terms gullible and ignorant. None of you have the faintest idea what you're talking about. You're just spewing back garbage and lies you found on the internet.

Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate. Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth. He displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship, including that he was born in Honolulu. Case closed.

And there are no "constitutional standards" for "natural born citizen". It's completely undefined in the Constitution.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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rjax22,
The copy of the BC on the internet is an official, certified extract of BO's original BC. It's all you need to prove citizenship. It's enough to satisfy anyone except a wacko.

Do you really think that you can get hold of the results of _any_ FBI background investigation? That's wacko.

I'm relieved to see, from the list of governmental entities that have been contacted, without effect, that our government isn't totally taken over by wackos.

Did you see Michael Medved's opinion of birthers? He thinks they're "crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative imposters" who are "the worst enemy of the conservative movement" and "make us look sick, troubled and not suitable for civilized company." That would, specifically, be his opinion of Orly Taitz.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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A large body of American citizens also believes the Earth is flat, the universe was created 6,000 years ago, the theory of evolution is just a "guess", the CIA killed Kennedy, the moon landings were faked and the U.S. government was behind both the OKC bombing and 9/11. Belief doesn't make truth.

However, you're demonstrably both ignorant and gullible. Especially if you buy into that "American Grand Jury" crap. Belong to the Republic of Texas, or some tax protester group?

No wonder Michael Medved thinks birthers are "crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative imposters" who are "the worst enemy of the conservative movement" and "make us look sick, troubled and not suitable for civilized company."

Why don't you present some facts, rather than the wishful thinking that's all you've been able to come up with so far? Oh, wait, you don't believe in facts. Just what "a large body of American citizens" believes. So you can't even think for yourself.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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Oh, BS. His grandmother never said that. Her interpreter said that, then she corrected him, and he corrected his interpretation. Someone edited that part out of the video, because it didn't support their agenda.

Oh, and Michael Medved thinks you're "crazy, nutburger, demagogue, money-hungry, exploitative, irresponsible, filthy conservative imposters" who are "the worst enemy of the conservative movement" and "make us look sick, troubled and not suitable for civilized company."

If the State Department accepts the short-form as proof of citizenship, why do you need the long-form?
Twitchy 3 days ago

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drewsfreemail,
If you would actually look into it, rather than accepting the lies you're being told, you would know that Certification of Live Birth has the raised seal, and the signature, and is a legitimate birth certificate.

And the grandmother thing is another fraud in a long line of frauds on this subject.

lanijevans,
Another ignoramus. The Certification of Live Birth states that BO was born in Honolulu.

ricardomigrant,
As pointed out previously, WND, back in August, stated that their experts considered the Certification of Live Birth to be genuine. Those who 'proved' it a counterfeit have themselves been exposed as frauds.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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carpenturr1,
Get serious. The Certification of Live Birth is what Hawaii issues NOW when you request a copy of your birth certificate. How can you compare that to what they issued who knows how long ago?

As for "Hospitals in Hawaii to Obama: You Were Not Born Here!", that's more ignorant BS. Get an education on the federal HIPAA law. Medical providers, which includes hospitals, are prohibited from releasing Protected Health Information. Some states may have even stricter laws. So, just because they're NOT ALLOWED to tell you that he was born there doesn't mean that he wasn't born there. If you ask any hospital if someone was born there, you should get, at best, a "we don't reveal that sort of information".

ldrancer,
Your mommy's calling. It's past your bedtime.
Twitchy 3 days ago

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How can we strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness by making government more transparent, participatory, and collaborative?

The above is the purpose of this site. This whole discussion has nada, nichevo, nothing to do with that purpose.

Why are you trying to muck up the works? What do you have against improving American government (something we need lots of, BTW)?
Twitchy 3 days ago

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The world has too many gullible and stupid people in it, as evidenced by most of the above posts.

Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate, Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, he displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship. Case closed.

As for the grandmother, that's another fraud, just like the claims that the BC posted on the web is a fraud.

BTW, WND, back in August, said they could find no trace of fraud in the images of BO's BC on the web. So they can tell the truth, once in a while.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate, Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, he displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship. Case closed.

As for "One of the relatives says she was at his birth in Kenya", I believe you're referring to the doctored youtube video, where the grandmothers denial was edited out.

You believe too many lies.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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While I tend to agree with you, what does this have to do with this site and its purpose?
Twitchy 4 days ago

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There apparently is a team of moderators. They're just overwhelmed with the volume of BS.

You already need a valid email to register

I have yet to see a filtering 'machine' that doesn't do more harm than good.

I'd say that the mods need to start issuing warnings (a canned declaration of purpose and statement that your topic is off-topic should do) and start banning repeat offenders, or put them on moderation so their posts need to be reviewed before showing up on the site.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate, Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, he displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship. Case closed.

As for the legal expenditures, please prove that they are all for "trying to squash efforts by U S Citizens to force the disclosure of his birth records."

Maybe he just thinks it's funny, watching the wackos waste time and money trying to disprove something that's already proven beyond any reasonable doubt.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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That's a nice attempt in the last paragraph to somehow relate your post to this site, and its purpose. But, really, what does any of that have to do with the purpose of this site?
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Vivid imagination!
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Like the Carter economy? 7;-]

Also, note that the Democrats held Congress for Bush's last two years, and did nothing to even slow down the disaster. Which, BTW, had its roots in the Clinton admin, though Shrub gave it way too much fertilizer.

You're overgeneralizing. And, as usual, there's plenty of blame to go around.

But, as I said, this isn't really the proper forum for this discussion. Is there someplace else you'd like to continue this?
Twitchy 4 days ago

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OK, so your "intellectual honesty" is a figment of your imagination, just like this entire issue is born out of the fevered imaginations of fanatics.

Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate, Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, he displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship. Case closed.

And WND and this "issue" is roughly the equivalent of the National Enquirer and "aliens". They, and those pushing the frivolous lawsuits, are the ones perpetrating the deception.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Take off the tinfoil helmet and join the adults.

Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate, Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, he displayed it on the internet. Case closed.

Get a life.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Actually, WND lies a lot to keep the issue in public view.

WND, back in August, had forensic experts look at the Certification of Live Birth that Obama and factcheck posted, and they couldn't find anything wrong with it. So your unanswered questions have been answered. The birth certificate (short form) can be viewed at factcheck.org. The long-form is in the archives of the Hawaii Department of health. Since the short-form contains all the relevant information, there's no reason for anyone to violate Hawaiian law and examine the long-form.

Now, you mentioned intellectual honesty earlier. Try displaying some now. What reason is there for this to go any further? What 'debate' is there to quash when all the facts are on one side?

And, if you don't trust the bureaucrats in Hawaii, why would anyone believe that you would trust the results of any examination of the long-form BC?

Note: you are the one with an opinion that is not supported by the facts. My opinion doesn't matter, the facts say your opinion is wrong.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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luvwith,
As I said, I don't think this is the appropriate forum for such a discussion. And it would have to be on a topic where I actually support a more-or-less conservative position. I'm more of a moderate with a bit of a lean to the libertarian side. Got anywhere that you prefer?

But, to briefly address one of your points, every Republican administration since WWII, right up until Shrub, had to deal with a Democratic Congress, with very minor exceptions. While very Democratic administration, up until Clinton's last two years, had to deal only with...a Democratic Congress. And Clinton's last two years were two of his best, though I tend to believe that that's only because the Republicans got elected based on the Contract with America, and they had to make at least a token effort to follow through, or lose the next election.

Would having to deal with a mostly hostile Congress most of the time help explain their lower performance?
Twitchy 4 days ago

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wmdavis53,
Yeah, I think the "ban conservative posters" is over the top. But then you get wannabes like phylmike34 who don't provide anything useful, just barf all over everything.

I wouldn't exclude any particular group. But this site is supposed to be here for a specific purpose, and posts outside that purpose should be made elsewhere. And all the bull about BO's birth certificate belongs somewhere else, mostly because it is bull.

While I agree with you that way too many liberals are bigots, the same is true of too many conservatives. Generally, the farther away you get from the middle, the higher the proportion of concrete-brained bigots.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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See, this sort of thing just attracts trolls.

And troll hunters.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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thoragibson - Got ANY proof, facts, actual information? Or just more wild accusations and hallucinations?
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Perhaps, but that rant has nothing to do with anything real. Obama showed everyone his birth certificate. That's what a Certification of Live Birth is. It's an official extract of the records of (in this case) the Hawaii Department of Health, and it is, legally, a birth certificate. What does anyone hope to gain by seeing the same information on the long-form birth certificate?

Much ado about nothing.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Sorry, too, luvwith, but I've had plenty of reasoned discussions with conservatives, and I've had plenty of discussions with self-proclaimed liberals who could do nothing but resort to "straw man arguments and name calling and hyperbole and obfuscation and omission and denial and rationalisation". I've even had rational discussions with Christians. It's 'believers', of all persuasions that tend to be the problem. Unfortunately, conservatives don't have a monopoly on childish behavior and beliefs. Neither do liberals have a lock on rationality.

wmdavis53,
This has got nothing to do with free speech. It's more analogous to being in a crowded restaurant when half a dozen people get up and start screaming at the top of their lungs. Bitching about strawman issues like Obama's birth certificate is not even close to the purpose of this site. They're not exercising their free speech so much as they're interfering with everyone else's.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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He's shown us his birth certificate. You know, the one certified by the State of Hawaii, and that says he was born in Honolulu.

All this is just troll bait. Come up with some facts, or quit wasting our time.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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BTW, the "old saw" is based on "assume", not "presume". Get it? "Make an 'ass' of 'u' and 'me'".
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Oh, BS. WND is a partisan rag, which accidentally lets the truth slip out every once in a while. They stated last August that the CoLB was legitimate. Have you seen anyone representing the State of Hawaii say different? Is there some massive conspiracy to keep this information hidden? Or is the whole issue just another political scam, to keep the faithful stirred up?

As for USAToday, you obviously did not read the entire article or you would have seen the part I quoted: "Hawaii Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino and the state's registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, say they checked health department records and have determined there's no doubt Obama was born in Hawaii.".

You've got an official birth certificate, issued by the State of Hawaii. This whole 'controversy' is a strawman.

Now, either come up with some real facts, instead of this troll bait, or quit wasting our time.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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Oh, yeah, the hospital thing.

Suppose you weren't born at the hospital you think you were born in. Suppose you were born in the one across town. Would it change your citizenship?

Just another irrelevant strawman.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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ldrancer,
You know, it actually hurts to try to read your incoherent ranting. I don't think I've ever seen a better example of the failure of the American education system.

Fifth grade was too optimistic. My wife teaches fifth grade, and they can write better than this.

Let's see, no common sense, that's obviously you. The grandmother, that was another fraud.

You've got no facts on your side, no evidence, no knowledge, just "I hate Obama". Your whole position is based on lies and fraud.

And you can't even write a coherent sentence.

Please stop embarrassing yourself and wait until you grow up to post again.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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thoragibson,
I have seen his birth certificate. You can too! High resolution photos of it are posted at factcheck.org. It has the proper signature and the proper raised seal. It says that he was born in Honolulu.
Twitchy 4 days ago

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OK, fifth grader might have been a little optimistic. So much ignorance and misinformation in one post.

First, no, you can't go to Hawaii and get a Certification of Live Birth. If you were born outside the country and could provide proof of that, you could get a Certification of Foreign Birth. That will NOT say that you were born in Hawaii. It will say that you were born in a foreign country.

A Certification of Live Birth is an extract of the database record that was built from the Certificate of Live Birth that was registered after birth. It's not some magic document that anyone can get. Whoever tells you that it is, is lying to you.

And, yes, you did say "the constitution says you have to show your birth certificate". In reality, it says you have to be a "natural born citizen" to be President or Vice President, but it never defines what that means.

Where do you think "american black"s came from? And, yeah, I would expect Obama to look somewhat Kenyan, because that's where his father was from.

As for the barely coherent (like everything else you've posted) "and his dad being called african american back in whenever it is. they didn't stop doing that until later, that was changed later. so he's foreign", I assume you're talking about the "Father's Race" on the CoLB being "African". The Hawaiian Department of Health already stated that they put down whatever the parents tell them. There were no legally-defined terms for that box at that time.

Come back when you've grown up. Hopefully you won't be so ignorant then.
Twitchy 5 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
luvwith is correct. This has absolutely nothing to do with the purpose of this site.

Grow up.
Twitchy 5 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
Yet Another Frivolous Lawsuit.
Twitchy 5 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
I'd prefer some find of preferential voting system.
Twitchy 5 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
This would be a good idea, if we didn't have political parties, if more of the population actually had an education, and if events of the last few days (Dr. Tiller's assassination and the shooting at the recruiting station) didn't point up the benefits of anonymity.

Now I see what you're talking about as far as voting and comments. You're looking at the user profile. To see how they voted, click on the entry in the User Activity Stream. That will take you to the topic, and how each person voted is displayed there. You can also use the time in the comments posted to relate some of the comments back to the subject. Yes, that ("some") appears o be a design flaw. Another design flaw is that any time you move the mouse cursor inside a comment text box, a little box pops up for a few seconds saying "Comment Text".

They also need to look at the screen layout. It's too easy to push the width out too far, making it hard to use. For one thing, maybe the little Users Activity box, on the upper right, should be indented to the left.
Twitchy 5 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
This post isn't any more appropriate than the endless "Show us the BC" being posted by the mindless haters. It's certainly not tolerant, and definitely overgeneralizes, lumping all conservatives in with the intellectually-challenged. Yes, they are acting like children, but they are not representative of conservatives as a whole.

"Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you."
Twitchy 5 days ago

Warning Report Abuse
Did you read my latest post. WND, your beloved source of all Truth, examined the document (or the images, it's not clear) and found no trace of a forgery.

"Hawaii Health Department Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino and the state's registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, say they checked health department records and have determined there's no doubt Obama was born in Hawaii." http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/judicial/supremecourtopinions/2008-12-15-obama-scotus_N.htm

"Does this mean Obama was born in Hawaii?

'Yes,' said Hawaii Health Department spokeswoman Janice Okubo, in both email and telephone interviews with the Tribune

carpenturr1 9 months ago

I recommend all just ignore blackmonrikker and other trolls and just flag them.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

How can this site be seen as one for transparency in Government when trolls like blackmonrikker is allowed here to attack posters?

Trolling trollers should be banned

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker is a troll

Why is he allowed to use a Government site to come and attack posters who ask for transparency.

He is all over the board like a few others and should be banned for such hateful posting at the people invited here to ask their questions

carpenturr1 9 months ago

All the while you show yourself to be what you accuse.
=========================================

Twitchy wrote:
carpenturr1,

Since the lies and BS you are posting are not relevant to the purpose of this site, you are the spammer. Quit being an obnoxious ass and get a real life.
=======================================

You are all over this board attacking posters who are coming here to ask for transparency in Government.

This board was not designed according for spammers like you to come and attack the people the Government has invited to come and ask their questions.

You are an extremist who haunts this board and trolls the different threads to slander posters.

You should be banned for your spamming and trolling this site

carpenturr1 9 months ago

battleforce3_327

Twitchy is all over the board spamming it with his arguments at posters.
He doe snot come here for transparency in Government but to troll the board and argue with posters.

He does not have a clue how badly he is reflecting on Obama.

Just know he is here to spam the board and be a troll

carpenturr1 9 months ago

100 percent incorrect

Twitchy wrote:
"kandis1105,
You might look up Chester A Arthur, 21st President of the US. His father was Irish, and was not a US citizen at the time Arthur was born. By precedent, your argument that both parents need to be citizens is disproven."

His father was a citizen when he ran for office, quit spamming the board with ignorance Twitchy.

Arthur was a natural born citizen.
v. naturalized by law.
He was born an American Citizen.
(unlike the obama)

Chester Alan Arthur Born October 5, 1829
Sworn in July 2, 1881, after Garfeild had died.

Why don't you people learn a subject before you come and spam the board Twitchy?

carpenturr1 9 months ago

We all know why
You are doing nothing but trolling this site just to attack posters

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker

You are abusing this site to mock and insult posters.
You have been flagged for trolling

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You present nothing

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Deceit and lies are not clever.
Stonewalling and scams are not clever.

Natural law will bring the truth out anyway.
Nothing is covered that will not be revealed

carpenturr1 9 months ago

You are just here to argue with posters blackmonrikker

No one said a word about being surprised.

No one is ignorant enough to think you care about transparency anyway.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

There is not going to be any transparency from this Administration.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

blackmonrikker wrote:

BTW, "transparency" is a campaign slogan, not a law. Since it's his slogan, he gets to define it.
=====================================================

Unbelievable

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Just show all your Records Barry

carpenturr1 9 months ago

For a subject that is a simple request for records, fanatical posting at posters who ask for transparency is what you get here, stone walling and cover-up about a standard every day normal routine request.

Show you BC and School Records Barry.

No one can break through the denseness of the obama worshipers.

They really do worship this guy

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Shut up cjw, you are all over this site trolling

carpenturr1 9 months ago

cjw
I have reported your uncivil attitude at me
idiot

carpenturr1 9 months ago

cjw

Why don;t you shut up, or comment on the subject, idiot

carpenturr1 9 months ago

cjw
One can comment without being a snart ass too.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Here are the three law firms that represented Mr. Obama. I say we call, mail, or email each one of them and ask them why he filed for dimissal over his 1961 birth certificate. Remember it’s just a $15 birth cert. . .

United States District Court of Pennsylvania
Attorney’s for Defendant’s
Barrack Hussein Obama and
The Democratic National Committee

John P. Lavelle
Attorney ID PA #54279
Ballard Spahr Andrews & Ingersoll, LLP
1735 Market Street, 51st Floor
Philadelphia, PA 19103
(215) 864-8603
(215) 864-9125 Fax
lavellej@ballardsphar.com

Joseph E Sandler, Esq
SANDLER REIFF & YOUNG PC
300 M Street SE Suite 1102
Washington DC 20003
Telephone: (202) 479-1111
Fax: (202) 479-1115
sandler@sandlerreiff.com
http://www.sandlerreiff.com

Robert F. Bauer, Esquire
General Counsel, Obama For America
PERKINS COIE
607 Fourteenth Street N.W.
Washington D.C. 20005-2003
Telephone (202)628-6600
Facsimile (202)432-1690
RBauer@perkinscoie.com
http://www.perkinscoie.com

carpenturr1 9 months ago

strike that last post of mine, looks like a computer glitch

carpenturr1 9 months ago

If you vote positive, your vote shows up as a negative now, or will not change the count.

I just voted on about 5 and that is what happened

carpenturr1 9 months ago

His long form would have easily verifiable information.

Doctors name
The Hospital

Like this real Hawaiian Birth Certificate has.

http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/5909-4049

To any honest person, he was not born where he claims he was.

quote:
Hospitals in Hawaii to Obama: You Were Not Born Here!

The Queen’s Medical Center
1301 Punchbowl Street Honolulu, HI 96813 link to site:
http://www.queens.org/index.html

Phone number 808-538-9011 General Medical Records 808-547-4361.

After it was concluded that Obama and his mother were never there, his sister was in an interview (Mary) and claimed that Obama was born at Kapiolani Medical Center for Women and Children -

Obama and Mom Never Here 1319 Punahou StreetHonolulu, Hawaii 96826(808) 535-7000

Link to site http://www.kapiolani.org/women-and-children/contact/default.aspx

This should wake up the soundest of sleepers something is just not right.

quote:

Obama's Birth Certificate Site Forced to Shutdown

Petition Closed A veiled threat was made against myself and my family which included our home address, so I have decided to close the petition for good. It is truly sad that political discourse in our country has come to this.

For those who signed the petition: Thank you for your support.

For those whom I have somehow offended: Please accept my apologies. I have nothing against Barack Obama and sincerely believe that he will do what he thinks is best for this country should he be elected.

There is a contact link: admin@birthcertificatenow.com

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/obamas_birth_certifcate_forgery/

carpenturr1 9 months ago

luvwith
You are still a child

Art, make your own decision

carpenturr1 9 months ago

A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.

Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department's Criminal Investigations Division.

Cmdr. Anzallo said a police officer was patrolling the neighborhood when gunshots were heard, then Lt. Harris was found dead inside the vehicle, which investigators would describe only as a blue car.

Emergency medics pronounced him dead at the scene.

City police said they do not know whether his death was a direct result of his cooperation with federal investigators.

"We don't have any information right now that connects his murder to that case," Cmdr. Anzallo said.

Police say a "shot spotter" device helped an officer locate Lt. Harris.

...

The Washington Times reported April 5 that contractors for the State Department had improperly accessed passport information for presidential candidates Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain, which resulted in a series of firings that reached into the agency's top ranks.

One agency employee, who was not identified in documents filed in U.S. District Court, was implicated in a credit-card fraud scheme after Lt. Harris told federal authorities he obtained "passport information from a co-conspirator who works for the U.S. Department of State."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/19/key-witness-in-passport-fraud-case-fatally-shot/

carpenturr1 9 months ago

A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.

Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department's Criminal Investigations Division.

Cmdr. Anzallo said a police officer was patrolling the neighborhood when gunshots were heard, then Lt. Harris was found dead inside the vehicle, which investigators would describe only as a blue car.

Emergency medics pronounced him dead at the scene.

City police said they do not know whether his death was a direct result of his cooperation with federal investigators.

"We don't have any information right now that connects his murder to that case," Cmdr. Anzallo said.

Police say a "shot spotter" device helped an officer locate Lt. Harris.

...

The Washington Times reported April 5 that contractors for the State Department had improperly accessed passport information for presidential candidates Sens. Hillary Rodham Clinton, Barack Obama and John McCain, which resulted in a series of firings that reached into the agency's top ranks.

One agency employee, who was not identified in documents filed in U.S. District Court, was implicated in a credit-card fraud scheme after Lt. Harris told federal authorities he obtained "passport information from a co-conspirator who works for the U.S. Department of State."

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/19/key-witness-in-passport-fraud-case-fatally-shot/

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Here is the question we do not have an answer for Michael.

What Passport did Obama use when he went to Pakistan in 1981.

This is my question for Obama.
He is the only one who can answer it, unless we find a whistle blower before he is shot dead like one of the people was already who looked at his Passport info.

Where did that post go with that info?
Why censored that?
It happened

carpenturr1 9 months ago

So do we all
=============================================

Michael Schurter wrote:
I'm sorry for that quote. I gladly retract it.
===================================

Ok, accepted
================================

Michael Schurter wrote:
I still seek proof that there were any travel restrictions to Pakistan in 1981.
======================================
So do all the rest of us
We can only get this 28 year old information from the records of the US Department of State.
Lets ask them for this transparency this admin has promised.

No one of us can force the US Department of State to open up to the public 28 year old records concerning Travel Restrictions.

Obama can, so lets make him live up to his promise of Transparency and see.

You know good and well none of us can force this government to be open and transparent, Obama can and said he would but has not.

=======================================

Michael Schurter wrote:
I don't understand why you expect Obama to answer your questions if you won't answer this one.
======================================

You do not make any sense with such statements.

I am asking a question only the Government can answer.

Instead of you asking the Government you ask me as if I am the Government.

Hardly an honest question is it

carpenturr1 9 months ago

No one can credibly call this a friendly relationship

HARVARD HUMAN RIGHTS JOURNAL

Before September 11, 2001, the United States characterized the Pakistani government as an unstable regime with a tarnished history of corrupt dictators, military coups, and territorial violence along its borders

the United States characterized the Pakistani government as an unstable regime with a tarnished history of corrupt dictators, military coups, and territorial violence

the United States characterized the Pakistani government as an unstable regime with a tarnished history of corrupt dictators, military coups, and territorial violence

carpenturr1 9 months ago

This is not true Michael

quote:
Michael Schurter wrote: 14 hours ago

The US seems to have been friendly with Pakistan in the early 1980s:

This is an outright lie.
Maybe its someone else's lie and you are just repeating it, but it is a lie.

I have showed you from the US Department of State we did not have friendly relations with Pakistan in 1981.

Here you are asking me questions INSTEAD OF ASKING OBAMA.

You want to find the facts?
Then join me and others who demand Obama answer the questions

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Art Lee
It takes reading from the US Department of State's web site to begin with, to see what the relationship between the USA and Pakistan was in 1981.

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3453.htm#relations

Muhammad Zia ul-Haq
With increasing anti-government unrest, the army grew restive. On July 5, 1977, the military removed Bhutto from power and arrested him, declared martial law, and suspended portions of the 1973 Constitution. Chief of Army Staff Gen. Muhammad Zia ul-Haq became Chief Martial Law Administrator

U.S.-PAKISTAN RELATIONS

in April 1979, the United States cut off economic assistance to Pakistan, except food

Several incidents of violence against American officials and U.S. mission employees in Pakistan have marred the relationship. In November 1979, false rumors that the United States had participated in the seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca provoked a mob attack on the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad in which the chancery was set on fire resulting in the loss of life of American and Pakistani staff

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3453.htm#relations

To this very day Pakistan is listed as a country with warnings against travel there by Americans.

Travel Warnings are issued to describe long-term, protracted conditions that make a country dangerous or unstable. A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff. The countries listed below meet those criteria.
http://travel.state.gov/travel
/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

Mali 06/02/2009
Chad 06/02/2009
Nepal 05/22/2009
Lebanon 05/13/2009
Yemen 04/24/2009
Georgia 04/09/2009
Sudan 04/08/2009
Central African Republic 04/01/2009
Colombia 03/25/2009
Madagascar 03/17/2009
Saudi Arabia 03/04/2009
Algeria 03/04/2009
Pakistan 02/25/2009

.............

http://travel.state.gov/travel
/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Miracle

After posting this, I was allowed back in after being shut out.

http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/5962-4049

carpenturr1 9 months ago

I have posted what is available and every one can see you are here to fight for keeping this buried.

This is an on-going investigation for one reason.
Barry Soetoro will not release his records.

Michael Schurter will never ask Obama

He is here to question any who question Obama.

I have provided lots of proof that Pakistan was not even close to be open for tourist travel as you said it was Michael.

Why did you lie about that?
No need to lie unless there is something you want covered up

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Proof Michael is not an honest contributor for this thread.

HARVARD HUMAN RIGHTS JOURNAL

Before September 11, 2001, the United States characterized the Pakistani government as an unstable regime with a tarnished history of corrupt dictators, military coups, and territorial violence along its borders.[1] Following the September 11 terrorist attacks against the United States, Pakistan became a leading partner in the U.S.-led war on terrorism, thrust into a position to bring “international criminals” to justice and to act as a hero for the “civilized” world.[2] Indeed, one of the lessons of September 11 is that exigencies often spur credulity. United States concerns with Pakistan’s human rights problems lost significance once Pakistan agreed to stand with the United States against terrorism.

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss16/khan.shtml#Heading7

Pakistan was in the midst of Civil War and unsafe for travel by anyone, let alone an American.

Americans were hated so much, still are the Embassy was bombed and people killed.

=====================================
Michael Schurter wrote:
The US seems to have been friendly with Pakistan in the early 1980s:
=======================================

Proven lie
Intentional lie I suspect

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Censorship is expected from you Michael Schurter

You have showed yourself dishonest anyway.

Americans were not allowed to go to Pakistan in 1981, not just from US Department of State, BUT from the Pakistani Government ITSELF.

They allowed only muslims into Pakistan.

This is why Barry Soetoro went to Pakistan via Indonesia using his Indonesian Passport showing he is a muslim.

Just as he is in Egypt today confirming that for the world.

Lying against the truth does not work Michael Schurter

Dishonesty and cover-ups are always bad.

You really should consider changing your ways

carpenturr1 9 months ago

NOT GOING AWAY

Thursday, March 12, 2009

Open Letter to the Secretary of Defense
Open Letter to the Secretary of Defense
Honorable Robert M. Gates,
3 Mar. 2009

Enough is enough! You must be aware at this point of the tempest brewing among the Rank and File. I am writing you in an effort to appeal to your sense of concern for the Military; a concern we share not only for the Military as a whole but for each and every individual who wears the Uniform in the Service of our Country. I am in this regard specifically asking you for your help. I implore you to not wait until the ‘pot boils over’ and we find ourselves in total disarray.

I am convinced, beyond any doubt, that the moral well being and efficiency of our fighting forces to defend our Country is soon to be hanging in a precarious balance if not already. In my humble estimation this is NOT a theoretical possibility to construct a thesis or a contingency plan about. It is a reality and is happening right now. Resolution of this issue must be accomplished in the most expeditious manner available at your disposal to gain immediate relief to those of us who are struggling to fully comply with our sworn Oath to the Constitution while being conflicted by questions relating to the qualifications of the POTUS to hold the office in full and absolute compliance with the Natural Born Citizen Clause.

Regardless of differences in the color of our uniforms, the color of our skin, religion or gender WE are Brothers and Sisters in Arms and our family is being torn apart. Are you not looking and listening to what is happening around you? How can anyone of good conscious stand by and let this happen to us? I for one cannot! You must care enough to intercede to stop this. Is this not within your power to do so? Why have you not acted already? What is it that you are waiting for?

If you have any doubts of what I am saying is true you need look no further than the comments made on the Military.com site regarding the actions of Lt. Scott Easterling who, in my opinion, is an absolutely courageous young Army Officer. Irrespective of your personal opinion of his actions, one thing is abundantly clear; the horrible, hateful and demeaning things that were being said about him and one to the other among my Brothers and Sisters in Arms were things that I have NEVER experienced in ALL my years of military service. It is no less than gut retching to see this happening. The wounds that are being inflicted will NOT be healed by any Medicine I have at my disposal. There is nothing I learned in Medical School or in my training as a Flight Surgeon that can fix this; save the absolute power of Truth. The POTUS must stop concealing the documents once and for all and the issue of his qualifications must be addressed. Make no mistake; any adverse consequences to the troops as a result of your failure to act responsibly will be in large part directly on your head.

Have you considered the legal ramifications for our fighting forces if for any reason the POTUS is not qualified. Are they in Iraq illegally? If so, does this make them terrorists under International law as the Islamic radical elements have been calling them? Have they given up their Geneva protections and do not even know this? If so, when captured can they be killed or tortured without International legal ramifications? Have they been stripped of the legal protections by the Soldiers and Sailors Civil Relief act? Are you willing to allow this risk to them when they are fighting for us?

Once again I find myself at a loss of words to try to explain the abject and total dismay I have at the administration, to include the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, to allow the painful division now occurring in our military to proceed unabated. I hope that I do not need to remind you that you as well took an Oath to support and defend the Constitution. As a point of honor you are either willing to do this or you are not. If you are not, then preserve your honor, resign and let someone who cares more about us than that do what is right.

I again respectfully implore you to act within your powers and help us. It is absolutely true and is my Prayer to my Creator to allow me to suffer the slings and arrows of being thought a fool rather than to have my convictions realized that persons of responsibility have allowed through negligence to have the Office of the President of the United States to be USURPED; it is self evident however, that whatever the outcome we must know the truth.

V/R (Virtual Regards);

Lt Col David A. Earl-Graef USAFR MC

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/obamas_birth_certifcate_forgery/

carpenturr1 9 months ago

If Barry Soetoro would stop all his stone-walling tactics and open his records, just think about how easy that would make all the questions go away.

Barry is not ever going to open his records because the information condemns Barry Soetoro as a complete fraud.

What con man is honest?

Barry is an extremist, a present danger to open and honest Government.

Barry has contempt for America and expresses it daily.
He is in Egypt today expressing his contempt for America and all American Citizens.
Just as he has already done in Europe and South America.

The Investigations of this man would not be needed if he would be TRANSPARENT.

He refuses to be transparent and refuses all requests for the mundane every day request he open his school records let alone his birth certificate.

Then we see web sites pop up to cover for Barry with political bs.

Like kevin has brought for "proof" ha

carpenturr1 9 months ago

In late March 2008 State Department employees had tampered with the passport files of Barack Obama.

At the time "State Department spokesman Sean McCormack said the violations of McCain and Clinton's passport files were not discovered until Friday, after officials were made aware of the unauthorized access of Obama's records and a separate search was conducted".

The incidents raise questions as to whether the information was accessed for political purposes and why two contractors involved in the Obama search were dismissed before investigators had a chance to interview them.

a video here( http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Vote2008/story?id=4492773) of Obama's response to the passport "breach" back on March 21, 2008. Watch it -- I think it's telling that he says, not that he has anything to hide, "not because I have any particular concerns"

Obama confessed to this trip two weeks after his passport was tampered with

Pakistan was in turmoil in 1981 and ruled of martial law. Millions of Afghan refugees were living in Pakistan, while the Afghan Mujahedeen operated from bases inside Pakistan in their war with the Soviets. One of the leaders that based his operation in Quetta, Pakistan was Usama Bin Laden (The Sheik).

Pakistan was on the banned travel list for US Citizens at the time and all non-Muslim visitors were not welcome unless sponsored by their embassy for official business.
http://dailymusings.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!EBAB74DA8F94C559!5351.entry

Key witness in passport fraud case fatally shot Washington Times

A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday.

Lt. Quarles Harris Jr., 24, who had been cooperating with a federal investigators, was found late Thursday night slumped dead inside a car, in front of the Judah House Praise Baptist Church in Northeast, said Cmdr. Michael Anzallo, head of the department's Criminal Investigations Division.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss16/khan.shtml

In early 1978, General Mohammad Zia-ul-Haq, now safely installed as president after a coup overthrowing Bhutto, pushed through parliament a series of laws that created a separate electorate system for non-Muslims, including Ahmadis.[33] In 1980, under President Zia-ul-Haq’s leadership, the
*** Top of Page 226 ***

Federal Shariat Court was created and given jurisdiction to examine any existing law to ensure it was not repugnant to Islam.

Barry Soetoro aka Barack Obama was an Indonesian Citizen up to at least 1980.

Here is the PROOF of this statement from a REAL LEGAL DOCUMENT.

The divorce papers of Barry's mother and Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian Government Official shows Barry as a dependent of Lolo Soetoro.

http://decalogosintl.org/documents/Soetoro_Divorce.pdf

Forget kevin's political hack sites and stick to real documentation.

Never trust a defense lawyer who proclaims his client innocent before the evidence has been presented in a Court of Law.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

In 1981 Pakistan was in the midst of Civil war and under martial law.

Here is a REAL LINK (unlike kevins political bs link)

This is from Harvard Human Rights Journal

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/hrj/iss16/khan.shtml

I. Introduction

Before September 11, 2001, the United States characterized the Pakistani government as an unstable regime with a tarnished history of corrupt dictators, military coups, and territorial violence along its borders.[1] Following the September 11 terrorist attacks against the United States, Pakistan became a leading partner in the U.S.-led war on terrorism, thrust into a position to bring “international criminals” to justice and to act as a hero for the “civilized” world.[2] Indeed, one of the lessons of September 11 is that exigencies often spur credulity. United States concerns with Pakistan’s human rights problems lost significance once Pakistan agreed to stand with the United States against terrorism.

Pakistan’s leaders saw September 11 as an opportunity to gain redemption. Blasted in the past for conducting nuclear testing, suspending its Constitution, and breeding Islamists, Pakistan, post–September 11, was in an excellent position to curry favor with its critics by suffocating terrorist networks. Seizing upon this opportunity, President Pervez Musharraf led a fight

kevin is full of bs, just like Barry Soetoro is

carpenturr1 9 months ago

http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/2008/12/barack-obama-traveled-to-pakistan-on-an-indonesian-passport/

This link is not proof.
Anyone can see its all about covering for Barry Soetoro in glowing praise and condemnation of anyone who questions the man.

The only proof will be when Barack is forced to be transparent and show his Passport.

How about it kevin, or you think he is above questioning?

Your link is a joke, it look like it was designed by the Obama Campaign.

There was travel restrictions to Pakistan in 1981.

By the Pakistan Government ITSELF let alone the US Department of State.

Pakistan was under Martial Law

American Embassy had been attacked and Americans murdered in Pakistan

Never trust anyone folks who is so quick to jump to the defense of Obama and claim "proof" and then show us a political cover site.

People like kevin do not mind insulting honest peoples intelligence.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

"I'm sorry you find me impossible, but what I'm asking is very straightforward: please provide evidence that there was a travel restriction to Pakistan in 1981."

This is akin to asking a homicide detective who was the killer while the detective runs downs leads.

I am investigating this and the questions are for Obama to answer.

I want to know the answers myself.

So either help me investigate the clues and the suspect (Obama) or get out of the way and do not try and hinder the investigation

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Translation:

"Why is was he still an Indonesian Citizen in 1980?"

Sorry, my typing does not come out as my mind is creating the thought.

Why was he (Obama) still an Indonesian Citizen in 1980?

carpenturr1 9 months ago

With Pakistan under Martial Law, the US Embassy under Attack and potential attack, with loss of life, it wouldn't make sense for the US Department of State to allow American Citizens to go there,at that time.

But lets says there was no restrictions and Americans were not warned or told not to go.

Why does Obama still hide his Passport?

Why is was he still an Indonesian Citizen in 1980?

This information comes from his mothers divorce papers when she filed against Lolo Soetoro in 1980.

Barry Soetoro was named as a Dependent of an Indonesian Government Official, Lolo Soetoro.

Look for yourself:

http://decalogosintl.org/documents/Soetoro_Divorce.pdf

Barry was still an Indonesian Citizen at that time being a dependent of Lolo Soetoro.

This is why I believe he went to Indonesia first and then traveled to Pakistan using his Indonesian Passport which would have showed him as a Muslim.

Christians, Jews and Hindus were not welcome in the Islamic State of Pakistan in 1981.
Not now, not then, and especially when they were under martial law at that time.

Think about it, and you will know why Barry Soetoro aka Barack Obama will NOT RELEASE HIS AMERICAN PASSPORT

carpenturr1 9 months ago

I'm sorry you find me impossible, but what I'm asking is very straightforward: please provide evidence that there was a travel restriction to Pakistan in 1981. If there was not than we can put this issue to rest and focus on other matters. If there *was* a travel restriction, then we have an intriguing story!
===========================================

Well think about what you are asking for.

There is no way for me to get 28 year old information from the State Department for you.

Lets try some basic logic.

Martial law, Civil Unrest, Embassy attacked, loss of life in 1981 Pakistan.

Lets ask Obama why he went there, and why he will not show his Passport.

The US Department of State is updated just like anyone else updates their information.

There is no way for anyone to find what you ask for , for 1981 and you should know that.

Lets say there was no restrictions and that could be right, although appears to be irresponsible.

Why did Obama go to Pakistan in the midst of civil war and martial law?

What PP did he go there on?
Why won't he release his Passport?

ASK the man with the answers and if he will not give them, why not.

This is how you are being impossible to communicate with

carpenturr1 9 months ago

mrbuzzsaw
can you provide more info on this??? do we know he went?
please provide more information!!

Just do a google search for Obama, Pakistan, 1981.

Lots of information out there

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Pakistan is still listed as a dangerous place for Americans to visit and we are "friendly" with Pakistan today.

Pakistan was under martial law in 1981.

Us Department of State, TODAY warns against travel to Pakistan.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html
Current Travel Warnings

Travel Warnings are issued to describe long-term, protracted conditions that make a country dangerous or unstable. A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff. The countries listed below meet those criteria.

Mali 06/02/2009
Chad 06/02/2009
Nepal 05/22/2009
Lebanon 05/13/2009
Yemen 04/24/2009
Georgia 04/09/2009
Sudan 04/08/2009
Central African Republic 04/01/2009
Colombia 03/25/2009
Madagascar 03/17/2009
Saudi Arabia 03/04/2009
Algeria 03/04/2009
Pakistan 02/25/2009

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Pakistan is present on the list of countries the US Department of State has issued travel warnings for right now TODAY.

Current Travel Warnings

Travel Warnings are issued to describe long-term, protracted conditions that make a country dangerous or unstable. A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff. The countries listed below meet those criteria.

Mali 06/02/2009
Chad 06/02/2009
Nepal 05/22/2009
Lebanon 05/13/2009
Yemen 04/24/2009
Georgia 04/09/2009
Sudan 04/08/2009
Central African Republic 04/01/2009
Colombia 03/25/2009
Madagascar 03/17/2009
Saudi Arabia 03/04/2009
Algeria 03/04/2009
Pakistan 02/25/2009

Pakistan 02/25/2009

Pakistan 02/25/2009

Pakistan 02/25/2009

carpenturr1 9 months ago

. In November 1979, false rumors that the United States had participated in the seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca provoked a mob attack on the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad in which the chancery was set on fire resulting in the loss of life of American and Pakistani staff.

the loss of life of American and Pakistani staff.

The State Department would be irresponsible to not have warned Americans about the loss of life being a very real threat if they went to Pakistan in 1981.

But the people who support Obama will NEVER ask him anything, just us who have legitimate QUESTIONS for him.

You are impossible Michael Schruter

Believe what you want, I do not care.

Obama is not going to get by with all his stonewalling anyway

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Travel Warnings are issued to describe long-term, protracted conditions that make a country dangerous or unstable. A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff. The countries listed below meet those criteria.
http://travel.state.gov/travel
/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff

A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff

A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff

. In November 1979, false rumors that the United States had participated in the seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca provoked a mob attack on the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad in which the chancery was set on fire resulting in the loss of life of American and Pakistani staff.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

"Please only cite travel restriction related sources."

US Department of State

Travel Warnings are issued to describe long-term, protracted conditions that make a country dangerous or unstable. A Travel Warning is also issued when the U.S. Government's ability to assist American citizens is constrained due to the closure of an embassy or consulate or because of a drawdown of its staff. The countries listed below meet those criteria.

Mali 06/02/2009
Chad 06/02/2009
Nepal 05/22/2009
Lebanon 05/13/2009
Yemen 04/24/2009
Georgia 04/09/2009
Sudan 04/08/2009
Central African Republic 04/01/2009
Colombia 03/25/2009
Madagascar 03/17/2009
Saudi Arabia 03/04/2009
Algeria 03/04/2009
Pakistan 02/25/2009
Eritrea 02/18/2009
Syria 02/12/2009
Congo, Democratic Republic of the 02/05/2009
Haiti 01/28/2009
Philippines 01/27/2009
Israel, the West Bank and Gaza 01/15/2009
Burundi 01/08/2009
Sri Lanka 12/22/2008
Cote d'Ivoire 12/15/2008
Nigeria 12/02/2008
Somalia 11/15/2008
Kenya 11/14/2008
Iran 09/15/2008
Afghanistan 09/10/2008
Uzbekistan 07/03/2008
Iraq 06/13/2008

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/tw/tw_1764.html

Does not list any thing for 1981.

I am sooo surprised that you would ask for something to hang onto instead of asking the fraud in the WH anything about his travels to Pakistan and it being under martial law.

carpenturr1 9 months ago

The U.S.-Pakistan relationship changed significantly once Pakistan agreed to support the U.S. campaign to eliminate the Taliban in Afghanistan and to join the United States in the Global War on Terror.

Since September 2001

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3453.htm#relations

The U.S.-Pakistan relationship changed significantly

The U.S.-Pakistan relationship changed significantly

The U.S.-Pakistan relationship changed significantly

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Several incidents of violence against American officials and U.S. mission employees in Pakistan have marred the relationship. In November 1979, false rumors that the United States had participated in the seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca provoked a mob attack on the U.S. Embassy in Islamabad in which the chancery was set on fire resulting in the loss of life of American and Pakistani staff.

In November 1979, false rumors that the United States had participated in the seizure of the Grand Mosque in Mecca provoked a mob attack on the U.S. Embassy

http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3453.htm#relations

carpenturr1 9 months ago

Gen. Mohammed Zia ul-Haq

became the Chief Martial Law Administrator. He initiated a process of islamization of the legislation of the country which contributed to the growth of sectarian and ethnic tensions and to the discrimination of religious minorities.

U.S.-PAKISTAN RELATIONS
The United States and Pakistan established diplomatic relations in 1947. The U.S. agreement to provide economic and military assistance to Pakistan and the latter's partnership in the Baghdad Pact/CENTO and SEATO strengthened relations between the nations. However, the U.S. suspension of military assistance during the 1965 Indo-Pakistan war generated a widespread feeling in Pakistan that the United States was not a reliable ally. Even though the United States suspended military assistance to both countries involved in the conflict, the suspension of aid affected Pakistan much more severely. Gradually, relations improved, and arms sales were renewed in 1975. Then, in April 1979, the United States cut off economic assistance to Pakistan, except food assistance, as required under the Symington Amendment to the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, due to concerns about Pakistan's nuclear program

Then, in April 1979, the United States cut off economic assistance to Pakistan, except food assistance, as required under the Symington Amendment to the Foreign Assistance Act of 1961, due to concerns about Pakistan's nuclear program

April 1979, the United States cut off economic assistance to Pakistan, except food

US State Department
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3453.htm

carpenturr1 9 months ago

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