OpenGov - Open Government Brainstorm

Comments (25)

1. 

   Educational costs have soared, educational institutions are the most unproductive organizations we have. The way to lower cost of education is to raise the productivity of those in the institutions. Much of the cost goes to research, why should a student pay for that, much of the cost goes to tenured professors who do so little while the grad assistant does all the work for next to nothing. The costs rise much faster than cost of living. Public institutions need to have a better pay for performance system and not pay for tenure.

   3 years ago

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2. 

   Bryan Rosander

   A better way to lower the cost of education is to use disruptive technologies and teaching methods. Universities are already offering their classes for free online. There are plenty of other ways of learning and developing experience than a degree.

   3 years ago

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3. 

   go2thesun

   Diversity programs need to include disabled who have min average IQ

   we have the highest unemployment of any group!

   ...and many schools, even in CA, are in the dark ages for most accommodation needs except for those well lobbied.

   Need more than just help for needs of blind and wheelchair access.

   See what your colleges and universities really do and don't to create REAL CHANGE!

   3 years ago

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4. 

   go2thesun

   hey- i voted positive and vote count went down one?!

   3 years ago

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5. 

   chenvertjd

   What has this to do with open government?

   3 years ago

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6. 

   zauberer44

   How about we use a mechanism to get the stratospheric costs of higher education under control rather than instigating it's expanse? An initiative like this will only provide upward pressure on tuition costs with no accountability to greater service provision.

   Why does Harvard, et al. cost 50k a year? Because of demand. That's what they can get away with. It has less to do with covering a cost basis than challenging the upper limit of a student's educational desire.

   It exploits great minds by forcing students into untold debt for the opportunity to "excel". When in reality, excellence comes from within. It is not something acquired thorough a four-year baccalaureate. Purely delusional.

   Instead, let's look at a competitive and challenging intercollegiate atmosphere with both student and professor mobility. Forcing colleges to compete more for good talent and grant money might be able to create some downward pressure on costs.

   We should encourage the quality and no-frills education along with high-dollar, privately funded establishment institution. Not publicly subsidizing grounds improvement projects and irrelevant research or allowing these projects to come from tuition revenue streams would go far toward guaranteeing an individuals tuition is spent on his or her direct education.

   Force these universities to rely on their alumni networks and to leverage their endowments against their own wishes and desires.

   Make tuition cover teacher salaries, classroom materials, and a small administrative overhead. Anything else (such as a verbose - yet profitable athletic program, or a research department) is a want - not a need for basic educational costs and should be funded by other mechanisms.

   I agree with Bryan. Our emphasis on this archaic institutional system is one of the prime reasons we can never get out from under it's subversive control. Opportunity exists anywhere you are willing to look for it.

   3 years ago

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7. 

   lpr300

   this applies to open government because if we used just 25% of our military tax dollars on education and prevention, we could have the best schools, highest paid teachers, and free higher education for all.

   i know of NO ONE who wants this level of military spending except those who make millions of $$ from it. those of us who die in their wars and pay for them would prefer peace and education and prevention. NOW THAT is open government ... equal transparency for all.

   3 years ago

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8. 

   schmidt_richpeg

   Under "imaginative ways to pay" it would be nice to start with some state or federal help to pay back student loans for attorneys who stay with in public service. It's hard to pay off the mega bucks from law school on a public service salary.

   3 years ago

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9. 

   Bryan Rosander

   How will making this free make it better? Just throwing money at them won't improve them. Government subsidies certainly won't.

   Like I said, you can watch classes free online. What else do you want?

   3 years ago

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10. 

    go2thesun

    bryan you have point and private schools can and should do what they like but....

    well- i say make med school and those other socially important careers that help us all less expensive.

    example- those people that choose between an mba and an md are the wrong students for med school.

    3 years ago

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11. 

    Bryan Rosander

    I think the best way to make med school cheaper would be for government to deregulate the medical profession as much as possible. Rand Paul, Ron Paul's son, apparently gets 50% of his business from medicare / medicaid and it removes price competition. This type of interference is affecting Universities as well.

    3 years ago

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12. 

    go2thesun

    bryan r

    economics 101

    you flunked.

    competition is good for the consumer - REAL PEOPLE

    having govt in the game creates ComPETITION for the rip off THE USA

    CITIZENS - insurance companies and some providers.

    Rand Paul must also be a good man.... taking so many losses in bigger $$ for the self.

    3 years ago

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13. 

    Bryan Rosander

    I'm losing you go2thesun. I want competition. When the government intervenes with subsidies, it actually lowers competition and quality.

    Rand Paul is a good man. He will soon be running for office in Kentucky, and mentioned his experiences in the medical industry in an interview.

    3 years ago

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14. 

    2leslies

    I am long past college days, but I wholeheartedly support a plan that would improve/expand programs that offer to pay for college in exchange for public service. Forget asking for a % of their taxes in perpetuity though. Surely there's another option or two!

    3 years ago

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15. 

    cgdewey

    Without a well educated public, we cannot have a functional democracy. Therefore, education is as critical to our security and liberty as is the military. The key, is expanding the size of the State Universities, which offer free tuition in return for a short term of service as a teacher. We can build on this concept in every State, adding other kinds of service (both state and federal) in return for free tuition.

    I do not agree with your two suggestions involving pay back of the cost of education by paying higher income tax. Haven't you heard? The tax American citizens pay on their wages is unConstitutional. Our Constitution provides for taxation of individuals (and corporations) only on profits. A wage is not a profit. It is an even exchange of labor for money.

    The key to paying for free higher education for all, is extrication of the corporate parasites from our government. They are sucking our treasury dry. They are in direct competition with all public programs enacted for the common good,for which purpose our government was established. Federal funds, which should be going to the States for educating all residents to any educational level they desire, have been going to subsidize favored corporations. If they want a war; they get a war. If they want a bailout; they get a bailout. These bullies are really beating up on our democratic way of life. It is time we stood up to them.

    Debate about funding any program, that will truly be in the best interest of the public, is simply a distraction to keep us from seeing the herd of elephants in the room.

    Carol Dewey

    3 years ago

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16. 

    donsteinmuller

    Our children deserve a quality education thru graduate education paid for by us as a society for free. If they do the work and perform and make the most of their education it should be FREE. Haven't we learned anything about mortgaging our future for immediate benefit? We are burdening our young people with so much debt that they are not using their education for the common good but for their own benefit. No where is that more apparent than in medicine Medical students invest 200,000 to 300,000 dollars (about half in loans) for their medical degree. When they get out they go into lucrative specialties we dont need more doctors doing (think radiology dermatology plastic surgery) and waste their talents while sick people look for a doctor. Some restriction or encouragement to work in needed areas may be worthwhile but let's give all our kids a free education of quality all the way through graduate school and cut back on all the extraneous crap we spend money on in our society.

    3 years ago

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17. 

    Bryan Rosander

    How about having independent scholarships cooperate with non-profit organizations to choose candidates? It would also publicize the opportunities, most of which go unused. The organization's experience with each candidate would be a much better measure of candidate quality than the current essay format. Also, this would present merit based opportunities on other metrics than grades.

    Most importantly, this would remove the need for federal funding.

    3 years ago

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18. 

    merveilleux24

    For this to be remotely possible, the government would not pay for Ivy schools like Harvard, because cost does not necessarily equal quality, and it would be a waste of money. But it there were an upper limit or ceiling to how much could be spent by the government, then this could work. Also, it's important to know that people DON'T value things they get for free, so there should a minimum amount that a student should pay, or it will fail, as California's did. But this would be determined on an individual basis.

    3 years ago

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19. 

    go2thesun

    Who doesn't value things they get for free?

    which people? spoiled rich people?

    -NOT us poor and disabled who suffer and cant get access and basic survival or a path to a livable future when its removed. "FREE" access IS OUR LIFE LINE.

    SEE the Termination of CALIFORNIA.

    Don't speak for us, please.

    Obama Appreciates it, so does Sotomayor.

    3 years ago

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20. 

    mdeprojects

    Educated citizens become a force for better government. Once educated to think critically, we demand that government be more open. Also, we need a well educated public so we can compete globally. China is already paying for our government, if we don't learn the lessons of history they will outpace us in more than just population.

    I'm unsure how to structure higher education to make it more affordable for the majority of us, but I know the cutbacks in our education system is making it difficult for my friends to get their children (with 3.75 gradepoints) into the state colleges due to lack of space. We have to act now to fix this system and I'm sure working together we can since this talk stream has some great ideas that could be tweaked to be workable.

    3 years ago

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21. 

    jmorris6b

    Why does everyone have to go to college? We as a society should get a benefit for the money we invest in higher education. When a student gets a piece of paper that has nothing to do with the job they will be doing, we are not getting our money's worth. Why does a secretary need to have a bachelor's degree? Why does an ambulance tech need to have a bachelor's degree?

    And especially why does everyone have to go right after college? Most students would benefit by working for at least a few years. It would allow them to determine what they really want to do; very few 18 year olds have any idea. It would also allow them to put some money in the bank. We should be encouraging students to do vocational programs, work, and then, if appropriate, go to college as a non-traditional student.

    By the way, contrary to popular opinion, research is actually helping to pay for the costs of educating our kids in college.

    3 years ago

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22. 

    go2thesun

    jmorris6b- trade school aa degrees career certifications are all part of higher education. Higher education also does more than give technical skills if done right.

    We learn little in K-12. Career choices should be looked at in general as early as the high school freshman year to know what courses to take. Sure if you want to earn min wage or near don't go to school after HS, but other wise you most often must.

    There is nothing wrong with taking time off first but don't expect a job at the fast food window to help you learn about or decide on college education and career options.

    Don't expect things to work like they did in years past and we can't expect everyone to fit in the same mold.

    3 years ago

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23. 

    zauberer44

    jmorris6b, to answer your question - we are all required to attend college for two reasons - first, because we aim to accomplish in four years what our primary and secondary public school systems fail to accomplish in twelve.

    Second, because in our competitive society it is the requirement set forth by industry to use as a legal discriminatory measure to minimize the pool of candidates and provide a loose standard of measurement to qualifications.

    I completely agree that most 18-year-olds are ill prepared to fully understand the repercussions of taking on a large debt load or even what they wish to do as a career. This is reflected in our legislature as well. One is not considered independent of one's parents until twenty-four years of age - despite having the rights to vote, and die for one's country. That specific fact extremely limits the ability to pay for college through both government aid, parental help, and one's personal job opportunities.

    We should incentivize kids to take a couple years off, work, and reflect on one's desires prior to engaging in seeking a degree.

    A very effective path in the current system is to pursue a two-year technical degree prior to a four year. This gives the student a skill to fall back on or to use as primary income as one works through college.

    Remember throughout the history of humanity, we have heavily relied on the apprenticeship program which used to work similar to a boarding school and internship. The master would provide free lodging to the student who would typically work for a small (if any) stipend to learn the skills of a trade from about age 14 to 20. This system is very much alive and well in other countries (such as Germany) where only professional-degree seekers go to college (applied sciences, engineering, medical, law, Art or Music conservatory, etc.). It works impressively well. Tradesman gets free labor, and the student learns the techniques of the elder. The problem our government has with that is - it's not taxable, and operates completely independent of the monetary system.

    3 years ago

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24. 

    Erin O'Reilly

    Educational stipends could be tied to mandated national service. Also, health insurance and other benefits could be tied to same. Other countries have mandated national service so why not USA? This mandated national service could be the choice of #1 armed services, #2 police work within USA, or #3 a needed community service.People would also be able to learn a skill while they performed this national service!!

    3 years ago

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25. 

    cgdewey

    Design a new public educational system geared to 21st Century technology, knowledge, and business requirements.

    1. Students go to school year-round using existing facilities (with modifications and additions as needed).

    2. The K-12 curriculum is expanded to include the Bachelors Degree/Technical School education.

    3. Blocks of time (and facilities), corresponding to (but not necessarily named) elementary, middle, high school, and advanced, should be used without the K-12 grade designations. (The blocks of time should be "open ended" so students can take as long or as little time as they need.)

    4. Each student has a computer; and uses it for learning, studying, reading, writing papers, and standardized testing. (Some learning software should be designed as games.)

    5. Each student, in their interaction with the computer, advances at their own pace. (All students get A's; all students pass; all students who complete the computer curriculum, graduate with a Bachelor's Degree.

    6. "Teachers" are available to assist students on a one-on-one basis, and, to conduct lectures, discussions, experiments, outside excursions, and more.

    7. The curriculum is enriched with theatrical and musical productions, art exhibits, debates, trips, sports, and more.

    The existing public school system for the advanced degrees can use a similar concept, including more use of at-home computer learning.

    Applying 21st Century technology and know-how, we can provide free education at all levels, to all comers, at affordable cost.

    The government should focus on providing the very best public-funded, free education (K-PHD), to any American who wants it. The government should not subsidize the Private School system.

    3 years ago

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