I agree to Idea A Failure to Prioritize - the Never-Ending Birth Certificate Issue
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I disagree to Idea A Failure to Prioritize - the Never-Ending Birth Certificate Issue

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A Failure to Prioritize - the Never-Ending Birth Certificate Issue

Is this issue more important than coming up with new ideas on how to house the homeless, develop energy independence, protect our borders from terrorists, provide jobs for unemployed workers, etc, etc...? I think whoever is behind this campaign has expressed their only idea sufficiently for the rest of us to know it's important to them. Now if they only had one or two new solutions for more important problems....

Submitted by 5 years ago

Comments (504)

  1. It is widely rumored that President Obama was born in Kenya. From Kenya Parliament transcripts, to YouTube interviews of Kenyans claiming Obama originated from Kenya, it is not clear that our current President is actually a natural born citizen as our Constitution requires.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
    1. Very basic request--why not just produce the necessary documents--unless it is impossible to produce something you do not have.

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    2. Mr. Obama: You're Application for a Postion as President of U.S. is Incomplete

      doctor2 a few seconds ago Revise Flag

      Vote Accepted

      1To Mr. Obama: Before we can offer you the job of President of the USA, we, like many employers, must see an offical copy of your high school & college transcripts and other academic records. This would include transcripts from all colleges & schools attended by you. In order to be certain of your citizenship status we need to see your passport, green card or birth certificate. This must be an offical long form version of your birth certificate which would have been filed by the health department shortly after your birth. I want to see Mr. Obama's long form birth certificate and his accadmeic records from elementary school attended outside of the US in Indonesia and Occidental College & Columbia Univestiy as well and also his passport. His college transcripts should be submitted, as we the people, are his employer and employers often ask for these items. Proof of citizenship, proof of academic completion. If he fails to produce these documents we could charge him with lying on his application for the job as President. By the Way, the certificate version stamped form 2007 which was submitted online and posted on the stop the smears website is unacceptable. I cannot accept this version from any client I work with in social services and I cannot accpet this version from anyone who wants to apply for the highest office in the USA. You will have a deadline by which these documants must be submitted and authenticated before WE the People can accept. That deadline is 30 days from this date (6/2/09). Failure to produce these documents will drastically impede your ability to run for elected office in the USA again. Thank you and God bless.

      Why Is This Idea Important?

      Why Is This Idea Important? As stated above, failure to produce these documents will indicate Mr. Obama's ineligiblity for the job of President of the USA and will drastically affect his ability to run for any elected office in the future in the future.

      Idea # 2269Making Data More Accessible

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  2. Also, check

    http://www.obamacrimes.info/103008Affidavit%20of%20Reverend%20Kweli%20Shuhubia.pdf

    This testimony alleges that Obama has a birth certificate record in Mombasa, Kenya at Coast Provincial Hospital.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  3. This is a forum for new ideas that will help make our great country even better. Instead of something constructive, you have chosen to smear with a lame conspiracy theory. People tried the same thing with Senator McCain because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Having to deal with garbage like this is why many citizens avoid public service.

    http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  4. Wait a minute. What was that message given to the people who voted for Al Gore in 2000 and for John Kerry in 2004? Oh, yeah. It was, "Get over it, already! Bush won."

    Now, can we apply that message to today, do you think? Maybe? Let's try. "Get over it, already! Obama won."

    Now, don't you feel better?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  5. The truth goes through three stages.

    First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." -- Mahatma Gandhi

    Wake up, get out of your state of denial!

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  6. The records need to be released, period. What is so creepy is that O is going to such lengths to not only withhold his BC, but also his school records, etc. Not transparent and certainly not honest.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  7. My only response to this is how can one find anyones birth certificate? I can't find mine publicly! Or is it out there? Where does one look to find it?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  8. @givonprints. You're absolutely right!

    First, the conservatives/Republicans ignored the popular vote in 2000.

    Then they ridiculed the popular vote in 2004.

    Then they fought the popular vote in 2008.

    And we won!

    Who's in denial? I know exactly who the President of the United States is.

    Something tells me you're a member of the Flat Earth Society, too.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  9. If it's such a simple matter why is he putting so much effort and money into NOT releasing the documents?

    I'll put my FAITH in God... from Obama I want proof

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  10. Some people think that the certificate posted on the web was from 0bama, it wasn't. He has never said it is his or came from his files or is accurate. He has never shown us the birth certificate that was written about in his bio. It was old and wrinkled. That's what the book says. The thing posted on the internet looked like it was printed the day before.

    he promised transparency and delivered secrecy.

    If has nothing to hide then he should show it and as long as he keeps refusing to show it he looks like a fraud.

    I will "get over it" the day he actually delivers on his promise of transparency.

    Since he already violated his promise to make all legislation available for five days before signed into law, his violation of the transparency promise is in keeping with his pattern of lies.

    So far he has signed bills into law without reading them, crafted executive orders with no plan to implement them and has shown why we need someone with executive experience in the White House.

    He should tell the truth, show the long form certificate which shows where and when he was born and the signature of the doctor or midwife. By keeping it secret he is proving his detractors right.

    We know where 43 presidents were born. If he wants to be president he has to prove he's qualified.

    he hasn't

    He isn't.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  11. beebe75 wrote:

    "My only response to this is how can one find anyones birth certificate? I can't find mine publicly! Or is it out there? Where does one look to find it?"

    You obviously have the internet. Google your state where you were born. Then... find the link to the state birth records. ... Then.... print out the application, fill out the applicateion, enclose required fee, send it in and you will receive a 'certified true copy' of your BC.

    I just did it for BC a couple of months ago. It ain't that difficult! *sigh* (public schools showing that they've totally run aground)

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  12. beebe75 wrote:

    "My only response to this is how can one find anyones birth certificate? I can't find mine publicly! Or is it out there? Where does one look to find it?"

    You obviously have the internet. Google your state where you were born. Then... find the link to the state birth records. ... Then.... print out the application, fill out the applicateion, enclose required fee, send it in and you will receive a 'certified true copy' of your BC.

    I just did it for BC a couple of months ago. It ain't that difficult! *sigh* (public schools showing that they've totally run aground)

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  13. What 0bama needs to do to prove he is eligible:

    1) Release the long form, vault copy of his birth certificate.

    2) Release all college records to the public.

    3) Show he has never been a citizen of Indonesia - as school records there show.

    4) Tell us what passport he used to travel to Pakistan in the early 80's - when travel to Pakistan (or Pokeestan according to Zero) was restricted for US citizens.

    Until then I will believe he is an usurper who needs to be removed from office and tried for his crimes against the country.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  14. The truth is, Barack Obama's (A.K.A. Barry Soetoro, his probable legal name.) birth certificate is only relative because Obama suspiciously and knowingly tried to pass off an inadequate yet very misleading and apparently fraudulent CoLB, as a legitimate birth certificate, which it is not.

    As a new state at the time, Hawaii often issued a CoLB or 'certificate of live birth' to children up to one year of age, including foreign born children brought to Hawaii. So all a CoLB proves is that Obama was born alive, somewhere.

    The CoLB does not prove he was born in Hawaii, and even if it did it wouldn't matter, given the other known disqualifying issues such as only one parent being a U.S. citizen and foreign citizenship, which means he is not 'natural born' and is not eligible.

    As opposed to native (born here) or even naturalized citizenship (moved here), natural born requires that one be born in the United States and that both parents (plural) be U.S. citizens. Obama's father is Kenyan, so he is not 'natural born' and is not constitutionally eligible.

    Clearly Barack Obama, a.k.a. Barry Soetoro, may not be a native or even a naturalized citizen, let alone a 'natural born' citizen as required to be eligible.

    John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States, wrote to George Washington on July 25, 1787:

    "Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and reasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American Army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.

    So who did our founding fathers consider to be a natural born citizen?

    In great part, the founding fathers derived such definitions from "The Laws of Nations" by Emmerich de Vattel, a book published in 1758, which Justice Scalia has used to define other terms in the Constitution:

    "The citizens are the members of the civil society; ...The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.

    In addition, in the official copies of the THIRD U.S. Congress (1795) margin notes state "Former act repealed. 1790. ch. 3." referencing the FIRST U.S. Congress (1790).

    Document ONE: the actual text of the THIRD CONGRESS in 1795 states, "...children of citizens [plural, i.e. two parents] of the United States...shall be considered citizens of the United States; Provided That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons, whose fathers have never been resident in the United States..." (THIRD CONGRESS Sess. II. Ch.21. 1795, Approved January 29, 1795, pp. 414-415. Document margin note: "How children shall obtain citizenship through their parents" Document margin note: "Former Act repealed 1790 ch.3.") See Attachment A.

    Document TWO: the actual text of the FIRST CONGRESS in 1790 states,

    "...children of citizens (NB: plural, i.e. two parents) of the United States...shall be considered as natural born citizens of the United States; Provided That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons, whose fathers have never been resident in the United States..." (FIRST CONGRESS Sess. II Ch.4 1790, Approved March 26, 1790, pp. 103-104. Document margin note: "Their children residing here, deemed citizens." Document margin note: "Also, children of citizens born beyond sea, & c. Exceptions.") See Attachment B.

    Document THREE: the actual text of the Constitution from the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, 1774-1789, and subsequent official printings, of the Constitution of the United States of American: Article II Section 1 Clause 5 states,

    "No person, except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President…" See Attachment C.

    Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms that understanding and the construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

    " ... I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents (plural, meaning two) not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen..."

    Bingham is also quoted saying in the Spring of 1868 some serious warnings:

    "May God forbid that the future historian shall record of this day's proceedings, that by reason of the failure of the legislative power of the people to triumph over the usurpations of an apostate President, the fabric of American empire fell and perished from the earth!...I ask you to consider that we stand this day pleading for the violated majesty of the law, by the graves of half a million of martyred hero-patriots who made death beautiful by the sacrifice of themselves for their country, the Constitution and the laws, and who, by their sublime example, have taught us all to obey the law; that none are above the law..."

    The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution is one of the post-Civil War Reconstruction Amendments, first intended to secure the rights of former slaves. It was proposed on June 13, 1866, and ratified on July 9, 1868.

    The amendment provides a broad definition of citizenship, overruling Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857) which had excluded slaves and their descendants from possessing Constitutional rights.

    Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    The 14th Amendment does not address the "natural born citizen" issue, only citizenship.

    Therefore Barack Obama, a.k.a. Barry Soetoro, is an illegal usurper posing as President and every order he gives the military is an illegal order that they are duty bound to refuse to obey, and every law or executive order he signs is null and void! The only government housing he is entitled to is Leavenworth.

    However being a Constitutional scholar, clearly Obama is a desperate person and the conveniently confusing CoLB may be all he has to offer. As they say, you can fool some of the people some of the time, especially when blind ambition, political expediency and one's own self interests matter more than the rule of law and the Constitution.

    THE FULL STORY

    Is Obama constitutionally eligible to serve?

    WND's complete archive of news reports on the issue.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98546

    Absolute must see!

    http://www.theobamafile.com/

    For information directly related to eligibility:

    http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

    The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials.

    Lawsuits by Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq.

    A True American Heroine Fighting For Your Freedom!

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/

    * Some historical material in this post was excerpted from TheObamaFile.com

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  15. The truth is, Barack Obama's (A.K.A. Barry Soetoro, his probable legal name.) birth certificate is only relative because Obama suspiciously and knowingly tried to pass off an inadequate yet very misleading and apparently fraudulent CoLB, as a legitimate birth certificate, which it is not.

    As a new state at the time, Hawaii often issued a CoLB or 'certificate of live birth' to children up to one year of age, including foreign born children brought to Hawaii. So all a CoLB proves is that Obama was born alive, somewhere.

    The CoLB does not prove he was born in Hawaii, and even if it did it wouldn't matter, given the other known disqualifying issues such as only one parent being a U.S. citizen and foreign citizenship, which means he is not 'natural born' and is not eligible.

    As opposed to native (born here) or even naturalized citizenship (moved here), natural born requires that one be born in the United States and that both parents (plural) be U.S. citizens. Obama's father is Kenyan, so he is not 'natural born' and is not constitutionally eligible.

    Clearly Barack Obama, a.k.a. Barry Soetoro, may not be a native or even a naturalized citizen, let alone a 'natural born' citizen as required to be eligible.

    John Jay, the first Chief Justice of the United States, wrote to George Washington on July 25, 1787:

    "Permit me to hint, whether it would be wise and reasonable to provide a strong check to the admission of Foreigners into the administration of our national Government; and to declare expressly that the Commander in Chief of the American Army shall not be given to nor devolve on, any but a natural born Citizen.

    So who did our founding fathers consider to be a natural born citizen?

    In great part, the founding fathers derived such definitions from "The Laws of Nations" by Emmerich de Vattel, a book published in 1758, which Justice Scalia has used to define other terms in the Constitution:

    "The citizens are the members of the civil society; ...The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. As the society cannot exist and perpetuate itself otherwise than by the children of the citizens, those children naturally follow the condition of their fathers, and succeed to all their rights.

    In addition, in the official copies of the THIRD U.S. Congress (1795) margin notes state "Former act repealed. 1790. ch. 3." referencing the FIRST U.S. Congress (1790).

    Document ONE: the actual text of the THIRD CONGRESS in 1795 states, "...children of citizens [plural, i.e. two parents] of the United States...shall be considered citizens of the United States; Provided That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons, whose fathers have never been resident in the United States..." (THIRD CONGRESS Sess. II. Ch.21. 1795, Approved January 29, 1795, pp. 414-415. Document margin note: "How children shall obtain citizenship through their parents" Document margin note: "Former Act repealed 1790 ch.3.") See Attachment A.

    Document TWO: the actual text of the FIRST CONGRESS in 1790 states,

    "...children of citizens (NB: plural, i.e. two parents) of the United States...shall be considered as natural born citizens of the United States; Provided That the right of citizenship shall not descend to persons, whose fathers have never been resident in the United States..." (FIRST CONGRESS Sess. II Ch.4 1790, Approved March 26, 1790, pp. 103-104. Document margin note: "Their children residing here, deemed citizens." Document margin note: "Also, children of citizens born beyond sea, & c. Exceptions.") See Attachment B.

    Document THREE: the actual text of the Constitution from the Continental Congress and the Constitutional Convention, 1774-1789, and subsequent official printings, of the Constitution of the United States of American: Article II Section 1 Clause 5 states,

    "No person, except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President…" See Attachment C.

    Rep. John Bingham of Ohio, considered the father of the Fourteenth Amendment, confirms that understanding and the construction the framers used in regards to birthright and jurisdiction while speaking on civil rights of citizens in the House on March 9, 1866:

    " ... I find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents (plural, meaning two) not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen..."

    Bingham is also quoted saying in the Spring of 1868 some serious warnings:

    "May God forbid that the future historian shall record of this day's proceedings, that by reason of the failure of the legislative power of the people to triumph over the usurpations of an apostate President, the fabric of American empire fell and perished from the earth!...I ask you to consider that we stand this day pleading for the violated majesty of the law, by the graves of half a million of martyred hero-patriots who made death beautiful by the sacrifice of themselves for their country, the Constitution and the laws, and who, by their sublime example, have taught us all to obey the law; that none are above the law..."

    The Fourteenth Amendment (Amendment XIV) to the United States Constitution is one of the post-Civil War Reconstruction Amendments, first intended to secure the rights of former slaves. It was proposed on June 13, 1866, and ratified on July 9, 1868.

    The amendment provides a broad definition of citizenship, overruling Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857) which had excluded slaves and their descendants from possessing Constitutional rights.

    Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

    The 14th Amendment does not address the "natural born citizen" issue, only citizenship.

    Therefore Barack Obama, a.k.a. Barry Soetoro, is an illegal usurper posing as President and every order he gives the military is an illegal order that they are duty bound to refuse to obey, and every law or executive order he signs is null and void! The only government housing he is entitled to is Leavenworth.

    However being a Constitutional scholar, clearly Obama is a desperate person and the conveniently confusing CoLB may be all he has to offer. As they say, you can fool some of the people some of the time, especially when blind ambition, political expediency and one's own self interests matter more than the rule of law and the Constitution.

    THE FULL STORY

    Is Obama constitutionally eligible to serve?

    WND's complete archive of news reports on the issue.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98546

    Absolute must see!

    http://www.theobamafile.com/

    For information directly related to eligibility:

    http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

    The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials.

    Lawsuits by Dr. Orly Taitz, Esq.

    A True American Heroine Fighting For Your Freedom!

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/

    * Some historical material in this post was excerpted from TheObamaFile.com

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  16. I totally agree dagney 788. I want to see the birth certificate that has his little footprints on the back, just like all 5 of my children's have, one born the same year as Obama. If he were born in a Hawaiian hospital, he would have one just like my children's, grandchilden's and now my great grandchildren's birth certificates. He spends all those campaign funds (illegal in itself) on attorney's to keep us from knowing the truth; He is NOT a 'natural born citizen' like all the aforementioned children with BC's with footprints. Until I see one like that for Obama, he is not my president!

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  17. Why is it important??!!!!???

    If he has nothing to hide, do the right thing and prove it. The media should have pressed him for it long ago. John McCain was born on a military base and he proved he was able to run. Why didn't Obama?

    Probable because he CAN'T. and this whole administration is a FAKE!

    How about to prove that he sould be in the Oval Office. The Constitution is THE LAW OF THE LAND. Let's not start ignoring it too. We've already decided to ignore common sense in so many ways, I guess this is the next step. If people don't like something they make excuses that it's not important, or it's not fair.

    Well the CONSTITUTION is what this country was founded on, and everything can be tied back to it. Laws are passed because the constitution established how that should happen (Congress sends to Pres for signature)....

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  18. This is looking like the most idiotic and least transparent administration ever.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  19. http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2008/11/22/obamas_born_conspiracy_obamas_bogus_birth_certificate_exposed!.thtml

    The birth certificate posted on FatCheck and other various sites are forgeries.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  20. there seams to be no problem releasing classifide info from Gitmo but you refuse to release your long form birth certificate, please dont bore me with the live birth certificate I have one of them and I was not born in Hawaii, instead you have hired 3 compleat law firms and spent millions to hide your B C, passport records and school records we are not all mindless school kids who think your our savior

    WHERES THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE ?

    5 years ago
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  21. I think the president should release his long form birth certificate and educational records showing that he is truly eligible to be president of the United States. He should live up to the same standards as Senator John McCain. When at least 400,000 people have enough concern to sign a petition then the matter must not be fully decided. Releasing this information is quick and simple. When the legal system is used to keep this information out of the public eye, then there is the appearance of something being hidden. If the president would like to show that those 400000 people are just right wing extremists or racists or just wrong all he needs to do is to allow a simple set of documents to be released.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
    1. DUPLICATE FLAGGED FOR DELETION.

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    2. This post is popular but not nearly as popular as the posts asking for Obama to make his birth certificate, college record, health records and the like available.

      Count Birth Certificate comments here and you will get over 7,000 But, this site has been rigged so that the posts asking for Obama to support transparency by providing his own birth certificate, health records and college records are not properly counted, even when they do not get deleted. All of the multiple posts would not need to exist if the honest reporting of this site showed the number one request here is for Obama to release his records.

      I have done a personal count of more than 1,000 requests for his birth certificate. My analysis suggests there have been at least 7,000 request for Obama to produce his real birth certificate, college records, health records and other financial records.

      It is possible to review this site to find the most requested ideas by scanning "Top Rated" posts, but the requests for Obama's records do not show up as being top rated. Those runnig this site are cooking the results. If the results were honest people would be able to continue to vote on a single post asking for transparency of Obama's records.

      According to the liars running this website the most requested item has NOT been Obama's birth certificate.

      (My email is ricardomigrant@aol.com - inlcude your email address if you want me to reply to you)

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  22. Rather than spending a million dollars and several hours working to conceal this document, why not produce the birth certificate and put this issue to bed... that is of course assuming there is an actual document with the correct watermark issued in 1961.

    I'm not judging, just saying...

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  23. just show us the proper document, not the false ones!

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
    1. It's not just the real birth certificate (vs. that fraud put up by the Soetoro-Obama campaign which the state-controlled media would not vet...but I digress)... we the people need to see ALL of Soetoro's records related to Constitutional eligibility:

      1. long-form birth certificate;

      2. hospital birth records (including the doctor's NAME);

      3. ALL college records: Occidental, Columbia, and Harvard (including, but not limited to, admission applications---did he apply for financial aid as a foreign student? who paid for his education?---transcripts, term papers/theses, etc.).

      4. Records pertaining to his (AND MICHELLE'S) lack of State Bar credentials.

      Don't just limit to a "birth certificate" ... rumor has it that one is "being developed" using a 1960s-era printer.

      5. Selective Service records ... there's been enough evidence shown that this was FAKED too. Faked stamps, tracking #s, etc.

      -------------------------

      If Soetoro-"Obama" is found a usurper there's a good chance that he's also an illegal alien and will need to be DEPORTED. Then Michelle can be proud of Indonesia.

      Let's roll America. No one is above the law.

      5 years ago
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      0 Disagreed
    2. DUPLICATE FLAGGED FOR DELETION.

      You are entitled to your opinion and to express it here, openly and intelligently... ONCE.

      Stop hijacking America. You are just as bad or worst than your accused. Move over and give some other ideas and topics some room.

      Selfish and Arrogant.

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    3. DUPLICATE FLAGGED FOR DELETION.

      You are entitled to your opinion and to express it here, openly and intelligently... ONCE.

      Stop hijacking America. You are just as bad or worst than your accused. Move over and give some other ideas and topics some room.

      Selfish and Arrogant.

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    4. This post is popular but not nearly as popular as the posts asking for Obama to make his birth certificate, college record, health records and the like available.

      Count Birth Certificate comments here and you will get over 7,000 But, this site has been rigged so that the posts asking for Obama to support transparency by providing his own birth certificate, health records and college records are not properly counted, even when they do not get deleted. All of the multiple posts would not need to exist if the honest reporting of this site showed the number one request here is for Obama to release his records.

      I have done a personal count of more than 1,000 requests for his birth certificate. My analysis suggests there have been at least 7,000 request for Obama to produce his real birth certificate, college records, health records and other financial records.

      It is possible to review this site to find the most requested ideas by scanning "Top Rated" posts, but the requests for Obama's records do not show up as being top rated. Those runnig this site are cooking the results. If the results were honest people would be able to continue to vote on a single post asking for transparency of Obama's records.

      According to the liars running this website the most requested item has NOT been Obama's birth certificate.

      (My email is ricardomigrant@aol.com - inlcude your email address if you want me to reply to you)

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    5. Dear Dissentfromdayone,

      Right on!!!! I just wish more sheeple, excuse me, people would wake up!!

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  24. While I suspect that BHO is NOT a Natural born citizen for reasons of his father being a British citizen and his mother taking him to Indonesia after her divorce and remarriage, I think it is a mute point at this point. Why? First of all, the Supreme court does not seem to seriously care and neither does the Press. We are stuck with him for the next 3.5 years and hopefully, we will still have a country then we can dump him.

    Any certificate he would produce now would be suspect. An honest person would have produced it and done everything to satisfy any questions. A person with something to hide does the opposite such as BHO!

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  25. I would like to see the long form. What is so hard about this? Almost a million bucks to cover up a birth? This does not pass the smell test.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  26. It would be easy to put this to rest by providing the original document. What is there to hide?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  27. I think it is a reasonable request. John McCain

    produced his.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  28. There are several things I would like cleared up.

    > Could you please help me find these things Sir?

    > 1. Occidental College records -- Not released

    > 2. Columbia College records -- Not released

    > 3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "Not available"

    > 4. Harvard College records -- Not released

    > 5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released

    > 6. Medical records -- Not released

    > 7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- Not available

    > 8. Your Illinois State Senate records -- Not available

    > 9. Law practice client list -- Not released

    > 10. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released

    > 11. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released

    > 12. Record of your baptism -- Not available

    > Oh and one more thing. I can't seem to find any articles you published as editor of the Harvard Law Review, or as a Professor at the University of Chicago. Can you explain that to me Sir?

    > Oh but, hey -- listen! I know you're busy! If this is too much for you right now -- I mean -- tell you what. I'll come back tomorrow

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  29. I'm not sure why this problem is so difficult. There is a large number of Americans who would like to have Obama's long form birth certificate presented to the public. A certified, tengible document presented for review, in order to set this issue to rest. The public will not stop questioning Obama's eligibility to be President until this birth certificate issue is resolved. The more he resistes, the more fuel he adds to the fire. If he has a legitimate birth certificate then this should not be a problem. His resistence indicates to me that he has something to hide. I do not care who supports him, the Constitution of the United States is the back bone of this nation. It states clearly that you must be a natural born citizen of the United States in order to be President. There are valid reasons for the requirements that must be met in order to be president. Even Obama is not above the law of the land. He should not be President if he does not meet the requirements. NO MATTER WHAT! Not pursuing this issue sets a very bad precedent for the future.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  30. show your real birth certificate or get out of our oval office, you don't belong their till you show all Americans the true birth certificate.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  31. Nice list! He is busy though and can't be bothered.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  32. I have viewed the Certificate of Live Birth online that people assume is verification. It is not a Birth Certificate. Any one of us can acquire a similar document just to verify we had a "live birth." It is not the actual birth certificate an attending physician signed. Our government officials well know this and should have long ago released the actual birth certificate (not Certificate of Live Birth). If nothing is wrong, why continue to hide it and spend over one million in legal fees, as they have so far, to "hide the original" Birth Certificate? Why has the Governor of Hawaii stated she "viewed" it, rather than release it? Are they simply buying time so as to perfect a fake one? To destroy travel and education records forever that prove something they want to hide? What is Transparency?

    I never cease to be amazed that Americans do not think this as important. Americans no longer care for truth, they prefer to embrace what they "want to hear." I am surprised that any President would desire to hide his original records and be allowed to do so!

    Travel, organizational affiliations, Birth and Educational records, of elected officials are to be open books. We elect these people and need to first know about their life, lest we elect an imposter. We have an American responsibility. This is fact,not rumor.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  33. President Obama's certificate of Birth, demonstrates that 1. he was born, 2. that he was born somewhere other than a hospital, 3. probably without a doctor or registered nurse, 4. verified with a laser certificate that did not exist at the time of his birth. So, where was he actually born, and at what hospital and who was the attending physician?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
    1. Thank you. I agree with that. So why the big deal?

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    2. Give it up. The birth certificate issue is dead. NO one cares

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    3. Release it all:

      1. Occidental College records -- Not released

      2. Columbia College records -- Not released

      3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "Not available"

      4. Harvard College records -- Not released

      5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released

      6. Medical records -- Not released

      7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- Not available

      8. Your Illinois State Senate records -- Not available

      9. Law practice client list -- Not released

      10. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released

      11. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released

      12. Record of your baptism -- Not available

      Write your congresspeople and senators!

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    4. As an American, you should care. For our Constitution to stand another 200 years, it must be followed. Obama has not released his records in accordance with the Constitution. All others who have run for that office have done so. He is not that special that he doesn't have to release his.............

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    5. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

      Born in the U.S.A.

      August 21, 2008

      Updated: November 1, 2008

      The truth about Obama's birth certificate.

      Summary

      In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

      We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

      Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

      Analysis

      Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

      Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.

      Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."

      Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

      Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

      Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

      Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?

      Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

      Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

      Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.

      Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:

      The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.

      It isn't signed.

      No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.

      In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.

      The certificate number is blacked out.

      The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.

      The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

      Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.

      The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller

      Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp

      The raised seal

      Blowup of text

      You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.

      The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

      The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

      The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

      We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.

      Blowup of certificate number

      Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.

      We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."

      We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

      In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:

      Obama's birth announcement

      The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.

      Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

      Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

      When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

      –by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller

      Sources

      United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

      State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

      Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter." Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.

      The Associated Press. "State declares Obama birth certificate genuine" 31 Oct 2008.

      Nakaso, Dan. "Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says; Health director issues voucher in response to 'ridiculous' barrage" Honolulu Advertiser 1 Nov 2008.

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    6. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

      Born in the U.S.A.

      August 21, 2008

      Updated: November 1, 2008

      The truth about Obama's birth certificate.

      Summary

      In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

      We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

      Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

      Analysis

      Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

      Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.

      Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."

      Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

      Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

      Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

      Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?

      Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

      Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

      Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.

      Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:

      The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.

      It isn't signed.

      No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.

      In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.

      The certificate number is blacked out.

      The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.

      The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

      Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.

      The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller

      Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp

      The raised seal

      Blowup of text

      You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.

      The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

      The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

      The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

      We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.

      Blowup of certificate number

      Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.

      We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."

      We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

      In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:

      Obama's birth announcement

      The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.

      Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

      Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

      When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

      –by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller

      Sources

      United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

      State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

      Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter." Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.

      The Associated Press. "State declares Obama birth certificate genuine" 31 Oct 2008.

      Nakaso, Dan. "Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says; Health director issues voucher in response to 'ridiculous' barrage" Honolulu Advertiser 1 Nov 2008.

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    7. You are so on target. Why the heck would Obama just not show his LBC? He has destroyed many folks confidence in government. May God help us...

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    8. I guess some people can be hoodwinked.........As for me, because he did not release this along with his school records etc, he appears to have something to hide................No transparency. So, sleep on

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    9. oh dear god. please stop watching fox news. you sound like the people who believe in u.f.o.'s

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    10. If we've got a right to vote and pay your salary, we've got a right to see the birth certificate. Where is it?

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  34. Your whole group currupting this site with this type of attack is pathetic.

    Your weak, and you exploit propaganda and promote hate, and it is proven by your lack of respect for the majority of users here when you take a system for the improvement of society and turn it into a podium for hate...Take your concern and direct it you know where, Stay off this site if you can't behave your self

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  35. hlb

    Because our Government operates through limitations set forth in the Constitution and expects us to follow laws brought forth under those limitations, An even playing field is necessary such that they too must follow those requirments.

    If there is not an even playing field the only thing that keeps people from operating under their own rules is the police/military, thus we do not have a free country.

    HLB

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  36. Well said! If a Republican President and his administration were concealing something of even less consequence, the MSM would be all over it and it would be headlined every day. Mr. Obama,

    don't you realize that by spending millions on high-powered attorneys to NOT have to produce your long-form birth certificate, you are raising more and more suspicion. Just by saying you have produced it doesn't make it so ... what has been prodcued is a fraud and I think you know that. Millions already believe you truly are not constitutionally qualified to serve as U.S. President. When that is proved, the fallout from this charade will be tremendous and you will have done a great disservice to this country you say you want to lead.

    God Bless America.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  37. Most people who accept the Ceritifation of Birth on the web, assume that if Barack Obama was actually born in Hawaii... then he is a natural born citizen of the USA under the 14th Amendment.

    But they do not truly understand what the terminology "natural born citizen" truly means, or indeed what it meant to the writers of the Constitution.

    Two words you MUST understand with regard to "natural born citizen" are "allegiance" and "sovereignty". According to Senator John A. Bingham who WROTE the 14th Amendment here is what natural born citizen actually means.

    Senator Bingham said while speaking about the rights of citizens in the U.S. House of Representatives on March 6, 1866 the following :

    [I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…. . . ” (- John Bingham in the United States House on March 9, 1866 (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

    And furthermore, Senator Bingham's definition of "natural born citizen" is in direct keeping with the understanding of the writers of the Constituition, who had access and frequently reffered to Vattel's book "Law of Nations" which simply states

    “ The natives, or natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens “ and ...

    “ I say that in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen, for if he is born of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth and not his country. “ (Emmerich Vatel - Law of Nations)

    Barack Obama freely admits his father was a Kenyan and a subject of the Brittish Commonwealth at the time of Barack's birth. So Obama's father at the time of Barack Obama's birth, "owed allegiance to a foreign sovereignty" !!

    This alone is enough to cause Barack Obama NOT to be a "natural born citizen" of the USA. If indeed born in Hawaii he might be a citizen... but would not qualify as a "natural born citizen".... and is therefore NOT qualified to seek or to hold the office of President under the Constitution Article 2 Section 1.

    THEREFORE... Barack Obama would LACK any Constitutional authority for any of the actions he has taken as President.

    UNFORTUNATELY... the press are oblivious to this plain simple fact, due to their enormous Obama worship. And the courts likewise refused to touch this "hot potato" issue. (to the Destructive Detriment of the Constitution and to the People and obviously to the nation.)

    The Birth Certificate.... Is it relevant ? Well to the issue of eligibility Perhaps. But it IS relevant in this way.. Barack Obama has fought hard to keep it out of the sight of the public. This in itself might show attempts to conceal eligibility from the public.

    SO... this IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE IN THE HISTORY OF THIS NATION..... AND IT IS NOT BEING REPORTED BY ANY MAJOR NEWS MEDIA.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  38. It is vitally important that President Obama reveal his long form birth certificate to verify that he is eligible for the office of the Presidency.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  39. If he has nothing to hide, then he needs to release his live birth certificate. I recently had to get my son's live birth certificate for him to get his Cherokee card, they would not take a copy that the hospital gave me when he was born, so if I had to provide that for the Cherokee Nation, then Obama should provide it in accordance with our Constitution.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  40. What hospital was Obama born in?????????

    Simple question.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  41. My sons play youth football and had to present their REAL birth certificates before they were allowed to play. Who knew that youth football in NH has tougher standards than the federal government?

    5 years ago
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  42. I have been following this story about the Presiden't birth certificate since the election. Nobody has paid attention, well, hardly anybody had paid attention....I am so very happy that this is coming to light, praise be to God! Where is the birth certificate indeed Mr. President? Nothing that is kept in the dark can be good, therefore, as a USA citizent, as a people, please provide us we your birth certificate. If there is nothing to hide, why then the mystery?

    5 years ago
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  43. Why has he spent so much time and $$ to keep his long form BC hidden ?

    He needs to come clean. Otherwise we can't really know if he's even the PRESIDENT !

    5 years ago
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  44. When is obama going to present his birth certificate and unseal all his educational documents? This is truly criminal spending money to block this and many other issues.

    5 years ago
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  45. We want good people with good ideas. An idea to help make this country stronger I and others could support or debate it merits or not,and that is what this site is for. Even with the argument that your request has merit on this site. It certainly does not justify the manipulation of the principle of this site. Within minutes a coordinated effort to reapeatably post the same idea that is what is pathetic. It is an attack on everyone who comes here to participate.

    A repetative posting of the same idea is a corrupt abuse of this site and the group forging ahead with this. The request you wish the president to answer does not belong on this site. And you and all the others who have posted this request as an idea know it.

    5 years ago
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  46. I have to produce my actual (not even a copy) for anything that has to do with me and the US Government. To obtain my drivers license I had to produce my birth certificate. I am considerably older than you Mr. Obama it has to be easier for you to keep track of this and numerous other documents that would prove your eligibility to be President of the United States of America!

    Terry R McDonald

    5 years ago
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  47. S M

    Why is it the common citizen is required to show theirs yet for someone who it is a Constitutional Requirement for the office doesn't feel they are bound to show.

    Show it, get it overwith, and put it behind you, unless there is something to hide, which I believe there is

    you claimed transparency...let's see it

    5 years ago
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  48. M E

    It is VITALLY important to the American public for Mr. Obama ro prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he IS a qualified American citizen to hold the office of President. Also, how is the fact that his father was NOT a U.S. citizen going to be twisted to allow him to be classified as a "natural-born citizen" as required by the constitution when teh definition of a natural born citizen is that BOTH parents be U.S. citizens AND be born on American soil. Mr. Obama is clearly NOT a natural born citizen, nor could he EVER be. IT IS TIME TO HOLD MR. OBAMA ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE CRIMES HE HAS COMMITTED, ie fraud and treason, as well as conpiracy to commit fraud and conspiracy to commit treason. If anyone that holds a government is NOT trying to get this issue in court, they are violating their oath of office by not defending our constitution from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic!

    5 years ago
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  49. I agree withe everyone here.Where is the transparency in the issue of the birth certificate.If we go to S.S. or get out of the country or to get a job we have to proove that we are American citizens.Show us your birth certificate Mr. President.There should be a law that all of the people that are senators,representatives and president,and judges for any court in the land has to proove that he is a natural born citizen by their long form birth certificates.The issue will stop when we see the certificate and all other papers like College,ect.

    5 years ago
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  50. Ditto!

    5 years ago
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  51. If President Obama has nothing to hide, he would release his college records and prove his citizenship. Until he does, I will not believe that he has the right to be President of the U.S.

    It's easy Mr. President. RELEASE THE DOCUMENTS. You work for us! We as your employer want to see the documents.

    5 years ago
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  52. I had to give all KINDS of details about myself for my jobs, and they weren't nearly as important as President of the United States of America!

    There is a great reason for the natural born citizen requirement - we want a person in the most powerful position in our great nation to have this country as his main national tie and its prosperity to be more important to him than the prosperity of any other nation - that's not selfishness, that's loyalty! 'You can't serve two masters, you will be loyal to the one and hate the other' - where have we heard this? From the most UNselfish man who ever lived!

    5 years ago
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  53. My daughter was born in Hawaii and what has been provided is not what we were given. Until he proves his eligibility to hold the office, we have no president.

    5 years ago
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  54. The citizens of this country is the Employer of President Obama. I, as an employee of a US company having a small, small, small, small, fraction of the responsibility of President Obama, has had to show my "Long Form Birth Certificate", and college transscripts to verify who I was to get the job. Why should the requirements for President Obama be anything less. That Form disclosed on Snopes and Fact Check is nothing but a Curio, you couldn't even use it to get a US Passport in Hawaii with a "Certification of Birth" (Note: NOT the same a Birth Certificate).

    President Obama is in a position to control almost every asspect of life of every citizen in the US. WE HAVE THE RIGHT AND WE SHOULD KNOW EVERY ASSPECT OF PRESIDENT OBAMA'S LIFE IN TERMS OF LOCAL, STATE, AND FEDERAL RECORDS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH HIM, WHETHER GOOD, BAD OR NEUTRAL. Every other presidential candidate has been an open book for records that have been available throughout history, except Obama. WHY????????????????

    5 years ago
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  55. Isn't there any way to "FORCE" obama to show his long form and stamped birth certificate to prove he is a citizen of the United States of America? Or is he just an imposter "playing the role of the President?" It seems to me that somebody should be able to foce this issue to make him prove he is an American citizen, or otherwise he SHOULD NOT BE OUR PRESIDENT ! ! ! !

    5 years ago
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  56. The Constitution, Article 2, Section 1, states, "No Person except a natural

    born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption

    of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President."

    I have taken the oath to support, protect and defend the U.S.Constitution twice, the first time when I was commissioned as an officer in the U.S. Army and served a tour in Vietnam in 1965-1966 where I saw many of my fellow soldiers die defending Her. I was recruited by the FBI for a Special Agent's position while in the hospital at Ft. Benning, Ga upon my return from Nam. I again took this solemn oath and served my country for another 30 years in that capacity.

    The Certificate of Live Birth from Hawaii is posted on Mr. Obama's website as his birth certificate and having lived in Hawaii for seven years I know that this is not a birth certificate. The vault copy of his BC showing hospital, doctor and other details is necessary to prove natural born citizenship. It was required of McCain, why not Mr.Obama?

    Also, Mr. Obama, by his own admission in his book, stated he went to Pakistan in the 1980s when he could not have done so during the period he said, on a U.S. Passport. What country's passport did he travel on?

    There is widespread belief that Mr. Obama attended Occidental on a Fulbright Scholarship which is only available to foreign students.

    I have great respect for the office of the Presidency and would like to have the transparency that Mr.Obama promised us when he ran for POTUS. He will gain my respect when he follows through on this promise and merely makes available these records to the public. It is not a difficult request to fill and I know there are at least 400,000 names on a petition requesting him to do so.

    My biggest problem is the fact that I can't imagine a legitimate reason why he won't furnish these records and put the whole matter to rest.

    Sincerely,

    A CONCERNED RETIRED PUBLIC SERVANT

    5 years ago
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    1. I totally agree with Joe. I too took an oath to support, protect, and defend our Constitution. I am a retired State Trooper and like Joe was required as part of our pre employment, to undergo an extensive background investigation which included a criminal background check and fingerprinting. Additionally, there was a requirement to provide documents such as high school and college transcripts, birth certificate, driver's license, etc. If the investigation disclosed we were associated with admitted terrorists, criminals, or members of radical groups that advocated the overthrow of the U.S., it would disqualify us for employment. Having these things in mind, our current President would not even make it through the initial part of the background investigation and would be rejected. It is amazing the POTUS has not shown any proof, to anyone, he is eligible to hold the position. It is time he did...to We the People.

      5 years ago
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    2. I want to thank you for your service first and also tell you that I share your concern about Obama's citizenship, I am afaid that his reaction to requests for access to his birth certificate sheds light on the very real possibility that he may even be an illegal immigrant if he never went through naturalization after entering this country after his Kenyan birth and after all of the time he spent in school overseas--just think of all of the American History he never learned while growing up. No wonder he thought he had been to 57 states during the election!! He got the number of American states mixed up with the number of Islamic States. Only someone that had been taught that growing up would have made that kind of a slip.

      5 years ago
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    3. Mr. Obama: You're Application for a Postion as President of U.S. is Incomplete

      doctor2 a few seconds ago Revise Flag

      Vote Accepted

      1To Mr. Obama: Before we can offer you the job of President of the USA, we, like many employers, must see an offical copy of your high school & college transcripts and other academic records. This would include transcripts from all colleges & schools attended by you. In order to be certain of your citizenship status we need to see your passport, green card or birth certificate. This must be an offical long form version of your birth certificate which would have been filed by the health department shortly after your birth. I want to see Mr. Obama's long form birth certificate and his accadmeic records from elementary school attended outside of the US in Indonesia and Occidental College & Columbia Univestiy as well and also his passport. His college transcripts should be submitted, as we the people, are his employer and employers often ask for these items. Proof of citizenship, proof of academic completion. If he fails to produce these documents we could charge him with lying on his application for the job as President. By the Way, the certificate version stamped form 2007 which was submitted online and posted on the stop the smears website is unacceptable. I cannot accept this version from any client I work with in social services and I cannot accpet this version from anyone who wants to apply for the highest office in the USA. You will have a deadline by which these documants must be submitted and authenticated before WE the People can accept. That deadline is 30 days from this date (6/2/09). Failure to produce these documents will drastically impede your ability to run for elected office in the USA again. Thank you and God bless.

      Why Is This Idea Important?

      Why Is This Idea Important? As stated above, failure to produce these documents will indicate Mr. Obama's ineligiblity for the job of President of the USA and will drastically affect his ability to run for any elected office in the future in the future.

      Idea # 2269Making Data More Accessible

      5 years ago
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  57. You guys are so ignorant. How can you guys call yourselves americans. He is the president of the United states. If he does step out of line there are people wh will correct him. JEES!

    5 years ago
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  58. He will reveal it... after the balance of power in the SCOTUS is mysteriously and miraculously altered.

    5 years ago
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  59. What in the world does "varification" mean?

    5 years ago
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  60. If he is not American born, then legally, he is not the president..............And if he isn't American born, I would not depend on the people he has under him to keep him in line.............There is no need for name calling. Just because we want to see his birth certificate does not make us ignorant.

    5 years ago
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  61. I realy believe Obama has spent close to one million dollars protecting and concealing his personal records in order to publish another book called, "How An Illegal Immigrant Took Over The White House"!

    Why is no court willing to hear these cases against him?

    Are his intimidations and threats that far reaching?

    Now that Judical Watch is going after him on corruption charges, we will see how big his pants are!

    5 years ago
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  62. With everything going digitial what would be acceptable since paper documents will eventually be a outdated as hieroglyphics and clay tablets?

    5 years ago
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  63. With everything going digitial what would be acceptable since paper documents will eventually be a outdated as hieroglyphics and clay tablets?

    5 years ago
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  64. It is interesting why Obama feels it is so very important to push Sotomayor through the process in half the time it has taken other SCOTUS nominees to be fielded and sworn in.

    I am tired of the rhetoric that Congress and the US people need to accomodate, and bend over backwards, because of crisis and unpresidented times. There is nothing unpresidented that has happened. Look back in history and you will find everything has happened before. This goes for the Bush white house as well. If the Stimulus Money that Obama and Bush had to have would have went right to the American people instead of growing government to secrure power, and to keep wallstreet companies afloat that shoudl have gtone bankrupt then EVERY "JOE CITIZEN" OF THIS COUNTRY COULD HAVE BOUGHT A NEW CAR. The bail out money and stimulus money alone is enough to give every adult (18 and over) man and woman in this country around $15,000 I believe.

    5 years ago
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  65. Personaly I think he is gaining experience for another book, This one to be called "How an Illegal Immigrant Occupied The White House".

    5 years ago
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  66. The problem with what you say is this---we have been trying to get this in front of the American people since LAST AUGUST!!! We are so frustrated that we are using any forum we can to express ourselves and get this across. As an example of this---when was the first time you heared about the eligibility issue? There are more than 300 lawsuits, but you don't hear about it on the evening news...it has been before the Supreme Court 3 times, yet still no coverage. Forgive us if we are over excited, but this is that important to us.

    5 years ago
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  67. Mr. President you insult the Constitution and the citizens of this great country by refusing to uphold the Constitution you took an oath to defend. You must set an example by producing your original vaulted copy of your Birth Certificate now. Stop spending millions of dollars fighting this because your actions confirm what we already know! This will not go away otherwise! It will haunt your presidency! We know you are not a natural born citizen. You are the most secretive President in history. Produce now or step down because failure to do so will result in you being prosecuted for treason. Those charlatans that have also supported this hoax and charade will also be prosecuted for treason. You can avoid this by doing the honorable thing now. The American people will not forgive you later!

    5 years ago
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    1. Obama is NOT eligible regardless...

      here is why;

      http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/4979-4049

      5 years ago
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    2. Be aware posters....your names are being tracked and we will be watched...Obama has extended his power to squelch our voices...be strong !!! Be AMERICAN !!! Stand together..We will overcome any one who tries to violate our freedoms...be not afraid.

      Blessings,

      MJ

      5 years ago
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    3. Here is the legal certificate posted for all:

      http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

      5 years ago
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    4. Honolulu Star-Bulletin, June 6, 2009

      Question: What is the state's policy for issuing a "Certification of Live Birth" versus a "Certificate of Live Birth"? My first, second and fourth children received certificates, but my third and fifth children received certifications. Why the difference? The certificate contains more information, such as the name of hospital, certifier's name and title; attendant's name and title, etc. The certification has only the child's name, date and time of birth, sex, city/island/county of birth, mother's maiden name, mother's race, father's name and father's race. Why doesn't the state just issue certificates? When did it stop issuing certificates? Is it possible to obtain certificates for my third and fifth children?

      Answer: No, you can't obtain a "certificate of live birth" anymore.

      The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

      The department only issues "certifications" of live births, and that is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

      And, it's only available in electronic form.

      Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.

      "At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting," she said.

      Information about births is transferred electronically from hospitals to the department.

      "The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests," Okubo said.

      Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, Okubo said the Health Department "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate."

      "The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models," she said.

      Okubo also emphasized the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate."

      She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements."

      The issue of what constitutes an official Hawaii birth certificate received national attention during last year's presidential campaign. Those who doubted Barack Obama's American citizenship called the copy of the Hawaii birth document posted on his campaign Web site a fake.

      Asked about that document, Okubo said, "This is the same certified copy everyone receives when they request a birth certificate."

      http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html

      5 years ago
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    5. Hawaii used to register foreign born citizens and provided foreign born citizens with a Hawaiian birth certificate during the time that Obama was born. They would hold the original birth certificate and then issue a Hawaiian brith certificate. The citizens of this country want to SEE and VERIFY the original certificate held by Hawaii for Ohama. His mother lost her citizenship when she became a citizen of Indonesia. Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. Obama was adopted by Barry Soetoro,her husband. He went to school in Indonesia and was registered as a Muslim. His father was a British citizen. Obama is not a citizen of the US! He is not even a dual citizen. And, he is not a natural born citizen and, according to the U.S,. Constitution does not meet the requirement to be President. Wake up! Either we go by the Constitution or let's just get rid of it! Obama must show the vaulted copy of his Birth Certificate, the one that Hawaii is holding. What he has produced is a fraud and it does not verify that he is a natural born citizen. Barack Hussein Obama obviously has something to hide. He obviously knows how to keep a secret when it comes to releasing his Birth Certificate; the one document that could bolster the argument that he is, in fact, eligible under Article 2, Section 1, of the United States Constitution to hold the office of President of the United States.

      A Certificate of Live Birth is not even a Birth Certificate. It is a psuedo-certificate for foreign birth registrations in Hawaii. Only the State of Hawaii allows foreign born children to have their births registered in this context. Hawaiian law expressly provides for registration of out-of-state births under HRS 338-17.8.. Even Sun Yat-Sen, often referred to as "The Father of Modern China" and first provisional President of China, had a Hawaiin Certificate of Live Birth too! Did this make him eligible to be President? HELL NO!!

      If Americans allow this fraud to stand, then just about anyone can be President. The problem here is, Can Americans trust President Barrack Hussiem Obama to make decisions that are beneficial to our country. Or is he the Manchurian Candidate? I seriously have doubts!

      He goes overseas and berates Americans,antagonizes our friends and befriends our enemies. What is he agreeing to behind close doors? He pulled a fast one when, during the presidential campaign he went to Iraq and told the PM not to talk to President Bush about troop withdrawal, to talk only to him. He wasn't even President! So, what is he doing now behind close doors? I'm sorry, but I do not think that this President has America's best interest at heart. This is a cloke and dagger Presidency. I fear for our country under this administration.

      They know that they have to produce something soon. And, when they do, it will be another fraud!! This Presidency will bring this country to its knees. There is a reason why our Constitution specifically says 'natural born.' Our founders were trying to eliminate anyone that could have divided loyalties. Our founders were brilliant men, not like what we have representing us now. They saw first hand what the British crown's corruption and greed did to its citizens. They wanted America to be different. It's unfortunate that we are now adopting failed European socialistic policies that lead to stagnate economies, welfare states and mediocrity. We are regressing instead of progressing. We are now adopting the same form of government that our founders fought so hard to avoid.

      5 years ago
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    6. What passport did UHBAMA use when he was shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi ? How did a young man who arrived in New York in early June 1981, without the price of a hotel room in his pocket, suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month later??? And once he was on a plane, shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi , what passport was he offering when he passed through Customs and Immigration? The American people not only deserve to have answers to these questions, they must have answers. It makes the debate over UHbama's citizenship a rather short and simple one.

      Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20?

      A: Yes, by his own admission.

      Q: What passport did he travel

      under?

      A: There are only three possibilities. 1. He traveled with a U.S. Passport, 2) He traveled with a British passport, or 3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport.

      Q: Is it possible that UHbama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?

      A: No. It is not possible. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.

      Conclusion: When UHbama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was traveling either with a British passport or an Indonesian passport.

      If he was traveling with a British passport that would provide proof that he was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he claims. And if he was traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to prove that he

      relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian step-father in 1967..

      Whatever the truth of the matter, the American people need to know how he managed to become a "natural born" American citizen between 1981 and 2008.

      Given the destructive nature of his plans for America, as illustrated by his speech before Congress and the disastrous spending plan he has presented to Congress, the sooner we learn the truth of all this, the better.

      5 years ago
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  68. There appears a concerted effort to vote down single payer. conservatives have invaded this web site and have registered on jun 1 and voted single payer actions listed on this web site. they appear organized. It does not appear enough that they have killed a doctor, now they want to kill single payer too. Also they have come and created bogus efforts to question the citizenship of our legitimately elected President.

    5 years ago
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  69. I'm 16. One week ago I went to go get my drivers license. I gave them a certificate of live birth, they said that wouldn't work, that I need the long form..just show us the darn thing so we can move on from this.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
    1. Release it all:

      1. Occidental College records -- Not released

      2. Columbia College records -- Not released

      3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "Not available"

      4. Harvard College records -- Not released

      5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released

      6. Medical records -- Not released

      7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- Not available

      8. Your Illinois State Senate records -- Not available

      9. Law practice client list -- Not released

      10. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released

      11. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released

      12. Record of your baptism -- Not available

      5 years ago
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      0 Disagreed
    2. You are so on target. Why the heck would Obama just not show his LBC? He has destroyed many folks confidence in government. May God help us...

      5 years ago
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    3. Many months ago he did, as well as it being verified by hospital officials in Honolulu where he was born Aug 1 of 61. Check snopes.com under false rumors

      5 years ago
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  70. ur FOS....OMG

    5 years ago
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  71. Even though I don't agree with your political ideology, I respect the authority given to the President by the Constitution of the United States..but unless you prove your eligibility to serve as President of these United States as outlined in this very Constitution by our Founding Fathers, I am unable to legitimately acknowledge your title as being that of President of these United States. This will all go away if you will produce the documents that my fellow citizens and I have been calling for. At the very least, please provide proof of United States citizenship. If you will do this, I will promise to respect and acknowledge your role as President of these United States, even if I disagree with your political ideology. Thank You.

    Hayley Hoover

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
    1. Release it all:

      1. Occidental College records -- Not released

      2. Columbia College records -- Not released

      3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "Not available"

      4. Harvard College records -- Not released

      5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released

      6. Medical records -- Not released

      7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- Not available

      8. Your Illinois State Senate records -- Not available

      9. Law practice client list -- Not released

      10. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released

      11. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released

      12. Record of your baptism -- Not available

      5 years ago
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    2. An essay:

      "Obama Presidential Eligibility - An Introductory Primer" by Stephen Tonchen

      http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm

      Essays by M Publius Goat:

      http://countryfirst.bravehost.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=105

      Link to many essays and information about the term Natural Born Citizen:

      http://www.thebirthers.org/

      RJ

      5 years ago
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      0 Disagreed
    3. You are so on target. Why the heck would Obama just not show his LBC? He has destroyed many folks confidence in government. May God help us...

      5 years ago
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      0 Disagreed
    4. Hi all,

      The "Kerchner vs Obama & Congress" lawsuit attorney and lead plaintiff were on the G. Gordon Liddy show today. Here is the link:

      http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/06/g-gordon-liddy-radio-show-interview.html

      http://www.scribd.com/doc/11317148/

      http://www.thebirthers.org/

      RJ

      5 years ago
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  72. "There appears a concerted effort to vote down single payer. conservatives have invaded this web site and have registered on jun 1 and voted single payer actions listed on this web site. they appear organized."

    Single payer? Can I vote against that sham idea here too? Thanks for pointing it out - I will do that now too!

    I HOPE we're getting organized! Idiots who think money grows on trees and that they can scam Americans with redistribution schemes will eventually awaken those who actually understand economics and know history! Single payer defies logic - it has not and will not work.

    5 years ago
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  73. Anyone's birth certificate IS accessible. Why in God's name should the President's--of all people!--NOT be available? He should have immediately produced the document to put an end to this talk. Since he didn't, I think something is not right...

    5 years ago
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  74. Info - what???

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  75. There appears a concerted effort to vote down single payer. conservatives have invaded this web site and have registered on jun 1 and voted down single payer actions listed on this web site. They appear organized. It does not appear enough that they have killed a doctor, now they want to kill single payer too. Also they have come and created bogus efforts to question the citizenship of our legitimately elected President. The conservatives have INVADED this web site on June 1. Ban this user who created this bogus notion.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  76. longshot9999 Idea Submitter

    What did the Supreme Court say those 3 times?

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  77. So "info" - are you suggesting that I, as an American citizen, do not deserve the same right to be heard as you do, since I don't agree with you? Hate much? You can take you fascist ideology elsewhere. Whereas you feel validated in posting spurious, unsubstantiated claims ("legitimately elected President"), you also are so elitist that you believe my legitimate and factual concerns about the obvious birth certificate cover-up are merely "bogus" and I should be banned. Not only that, seeing as how you have no rational or cogent counter argument, you resort to weak-minded argumentum ad hominem and make libelous and derogatory statements like, "they have killed a doctor" in an attempt to lump all of your opponents together under an evil umbrella. That's weak - very weak, and you know it. Why don't you exercise some logic and reason, and then come back to post something of substance, rather than just throw a hissy fit over the fact that - gasp! - lots of people disagree with you. Word to the wise: Your communist mindset of "silence the opposition" will not bode well for you. It will only expose your true elitist intentions and awaken multitudes to the farce you try to pass off.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  78. Its such a simple fix, but the reason he cant show a cert of live birth, long form is because no such document exists, and it never will.

    This is America and the politicians WORK FOR US although they wont let you believe that, they do. One way to fire them is to VOTE them out of office.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  79. I have used another persons text because I couldn't agree more..Even though I don't agree with your political ideology, I respect the authority given to the President by the Constitution of the United States..but unless you prove your eligibility to serve as President of these United States as outlined in this very Constitution by our Founding Fathers, I am unable to legitimately acknowledge your title as being that of President of these United States. This will all go away if you will produce the documents that my fellow citizens and I have been calling for. At the very least, please provide proof of United States citizenship. If you will do this, I will promise to respect and acknowledge your role as President of these United States, even if I disagree with your political ideology. Thank You.

    Samford Babbath

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
    1. Release it all:

      1. Occidental College records -- Not released

      2. Columbia College records -- Not released

      3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "Not available"

      4. Harvard College records -- Not released

      5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released

      6. Medical records -- Not released

      7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- Not available

      8. Your Illinois State Senate records -- Not available

      9. Law practice client list -- Not released

      10. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released

      11. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released

      12. Record of your baptism -- Not available

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    2. You are so on target. Why the heck would Obama just not show his LBC? He has destroyed many folks confidence in government. May God help us...

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  80. Until the president provides his official birth certificate none of what he does is legal, official or binding.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
    1. It's obvious that our so called POTUS has something to hide. I think a person posted a solution earlier, though I think it got yanked. We the People need to get together and file a class action lawsuit against obama and the administration until the truth is revealed. Our Constitution is very clear on who the leader of this Great Country can be. If obama proves not to be a natural born citizen, then he and anyone involved has committed treason and should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    2. DUPLICATE FLAGGED FOR DELETION.

      You are entitled to your opinion and to express it here, openly and intelligently... ONCE.

      Stop hijacking America. You are just as bad or worst than your accused. Move over and give some other ideas and topics some room.

      Selfish and Arrogant.

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    3. This post is popular but not nearly as popular as the posts asking for Obama to make his birth certificate, college record, health records and the like available.

      Count Birth Certificate comments here and you will get over 7,000 But, this site has been rigged so that the posts asking for Obama to support transparency by providing his own birth certificate, health records and college records are not properly counted, even when they do not get deleted. All of the multiple posts would not need to exist if the honest reporting of this site showed the number one request here is for Obama to release his records.

      I have done a personal count of more than 1,000 requests for his birth certificate. My analysis suggests there have been at least 7,000 request for Obama to produce his real birth certificate, college records, health records and other financial records.

      It is possible to review this site to find the most requested ideas by scanning "Top Rated" posts, but the requests for Obama's records do not show up as being top rated. Those runnig this site are cooking the results. If the results were honest people would be able to continue to vote on a single post asking for transparency of Obama's records.

      According to the liars running this website the most requested item has NOT been Obama's birth certificate.

      (My email is ricardomigrant@aol.com - inlcude your email address if you want me to reply to you)

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
  81. There is no greater priority than our trying to protect our constitutional right to know who O is

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  82. I think that this is a very important issue. They made McCain provide his, why not obama? When they find that he wasn't really born in Hawaii,or anywhere in the U.S., then every law that he has passed, every gov't buy out he's been behind, will be invalid. Now, does anyone know how it works if he's thrown out. Does Biden become the POTUS? We won't have to worry about him keeping any secrets, he can't keep his mouth shut.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  83. Idiot

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  84. lol

    divert much?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  85. lol, ur weird

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  86. Obama has already admitted he wasn't born in the united states by refusing to produce the document and posting one that could not be proven. All action he has taken is null and void. He has committed criminal acts, including treason, by continuing this hoax.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  87. Hmmm ... let me see ... you can't provide a single rational, logical or cogent counter argument to the Obama birth certificate cover-up, so you post sardonic nonsense in an attempt to distract from the issue. "Hey you! Don't look at the man behind the curtain! Look over here!"

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  88. great post... it made me LOL... You are right all of my kids had to PRODUCE evidence of birth to drive... Equality!

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  89. TheObamaFile.com

    The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com

    for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials

    This informative site presents the most historically accurate, legally correct and genuinely unbiased credible explanation of the eligibility issue I have found, following several months of studious searching for accurate clarification, of what I now regretfully regard as an illegal usurpation of the office of the President of the United States of America.

    Obviously calling onto question the constitutional eligibility of a sitting president is a serious matter, however our president is not above the rule of law. The Constitution is our greatest protection from abusive government. Throughout the history of mankind, political power has frequently been seized irrespective of the will of the governed, often violently. Perhaps owing to our imperfect nature, totalitarianism has more often been the rule, rather than the exception.

    Our Constitution as first envisioned and ultimately realized by the benefits of both pen and sword, was founded as a heart felt invention of necessity by men so deathly tired of oppression, that they determined despite any cost, to establish our Constitutional Republic. With the Constitution, our Founding Father's planted a seed in soil richly nourished in blood, that with similar courage United States citizens might forever more be able to exercise their God given inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in at least one free and just nation upon the face of the earth.

    Respectfully, a Vet.

    The Constitution still matters,

    but only for as long as 'we the people, by continuing to support and defend it, say so!

    The Constitution will protect the citizens for as long as the citizens protect the Constitution.

    Please consider the following:

    http://www.theobamafile.com

    Especially this particular TheObamafile.com page:

    http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  90. He is insulting us. He thinks that we are idiots and that he does not have to answer to us. Even if he has one, he will not produce it because it is not a power play.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  91. it is known as the 180 Degree argument

    cant win the argument so you turn it 180 degrees hoping to needle people into giving up in frustration.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  92. TheObamaFile.com

    The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com

    for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials

    This informative site presents the most historically accurate, legally correct and genuinely unbiased credible explanation of the eligibility issue I have found, following several months of studious searching for accurate clarification, of what I now regretfully regard as an illegal usurpation of the office of the President of the United States of America.

    Obviously calling onto question the constitutional eligibility of a sitting president is a serious matter, however our president is not above the rule of law. The Constitution is our greatest protection from abusive government. Throughout the history of mankind, political power has frequently been seized irrespective of the will of the governed, often violently. Perhaps owing to our imperfect nature, totalitarianism has more often been the rule, rather than the exception.

    Our Constitution as first envisioned and ultimately realized by the benefits of both pen and sword, was founded as a heart felt invention of necessity by men so deathly tired of oppression, that they determined despite any cost, to establish our Constitutional Republic. With the Constitution, our Founding Father's planted a seed in soil richly nourished in blood, that with similar courage United States citizens might forever more be able to exercise their God given inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in at least one free and just nation upon the face of the earth.

    Respectfully, a Vet.

    The Constitution still matters,

    but only for as long as 'we the people', by continuing to support and defend it, say so!

    The Constitution will protect the citizens for as long as the citizens protect the Constitution.

    Please consider the following:

    http://www.theobamafile.com

    Especially this particular TheObamafile.com page:

    http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  93. We demand to see Obama's long form birth certificate with the name and signature of the doctor, the name of the hospital, and other important details that would be on any birth certificate. Verification from so-called "officials" of his birth in Hawaii is NOT GOOD ENOUGH! Neither is a document that supposedly verifies that a birth certificate exists like the certificate of live birth that has been presented to us so far. We must see verifiable details, no more of this "just take my word for it" crap!

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
    1. He hates America. plain and simple. he could not care less what the constitution says about any thing. I want to see his birth certificate as well. it "aint gonna" happen, folks! this IS the change he was talking about. In fact right now, Obama and his coven, are without a doubt,trying to find a way to eliminate,or nullify that pesky,troublesome,piece of paper that always seems to get in his way.And i am sorry to say,he may just accomplish it,with all his mind numbed cronies in his "main stream media" more than willing to help him. {chips off the same block}.And,the people that put him in office don't give a rat's ass WHAT he does any way! as long as they get their piece of the pie.Then, should i even get into what the no good, spineless,wimpy,chicken shit,so called republicans,will do to stop him? not.bottom line is this,use your constitutional rights wile you still have them! wise up, pull your heads out of the sand, VOTE THESE CLOWNS OUT OF OFFICE. All of them,democrats,republicans.lets take our government back,and abolish once and for all, political correctness!we need new faces in Washington.Those that love America,her people,Flag, and her culture. Remind politicians, they work for US! And to you Mr. Obama,If you cant play by the rules... GET THE HELL OUT OF OUR HOUSE!!

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    2. Release it all:

      1. Occidental College records -- Not released

      2. Columbia College records -- Not released

      3. Columbia Thesis paper -- "Not available"

      4. Harvard College records -- Not released

      5. Selective Service Registration -- Not released

      6. Medical records -- Not released

      7. Illinois State Senate schedule -- Not available

      8. Your Illinois State Senate records -- Not available

      9. Law practice client list -- Not released

      10. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate -- Not released

      11. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth -- Not released

      12. Record of your baptism -- Not available

      Write your congresspeople and senators!

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    3. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

      Born in the U.S.A.

      August 21, 2008

      Updated: November 1, 2008

      The truth about Obama's birth certificate.

      Summary

      In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

      We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

      Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

      Analysis

      Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

      Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.

      Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."

      Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

      Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

      Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

      Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?

      Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

      Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

      Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.

      Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:

      The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.

      It isn't signed.

      No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.

      In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.

      The certificate number is blacked out.

      The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.

      The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

      Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.

      The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller

      Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp

      The raised seal

      Blowup of text

      You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.

      The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

      The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

      The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

      We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.

      Blowup of certificate number

      Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.

      We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."

      We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

      In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:

      Obama's birth announcement

      The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.

      Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

      Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

      When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

      –by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller

      Sources

      United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

      State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

      Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter." Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.

      The Associated Press. "State declares Obama birth certificate genuine" 31 Oct 2008.

      Nakaso, Dan. "Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says; Health director issues voucher in response to 'ridiculous' barrage" Honolulu Advertiser 1 Nov 2008.

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    4. http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

      Born in the U.S.A.

      August 21, 2008

      Updated: November 1, 2008

      The truth about Obama's birth certificate.

      Summary

      In June, the Obama campaign released a digitally scanned image of his birth certificate to quell speculative charges that he might not be a natural-born citizen. But the image prompted more blog-based skepticism about the document's authenticity. And recently, author Jerome Corsi, whose book attacks Obama, said in a TV interview that the birth certificate the campaign has is "fake."

      We beg to differ. FactCheck.org staffers have now seen, touched, examined and photographed the original birth certificate. We conclude that it meets all of the requirements from the State Department for proving U.S. citizenship. Claims that the document lacks a raised seal or a signature are false. We have posted high-resolution photographs of the document as "supporting documents" to this article. Our conclusion: Obama was born in the U.S.A. just as he has always said.

      Update, Nov. 1: The director of Hawaii’s Department of Health confirmed Oct. 31 that Obama was born in Honolulu.

      Analysis

      Update Nov. 1: The Associated Press quoted Chiyome Fukino as saying that both she and the registrar of vital statistics, Alvin Onaka, have personally verified that the health department holds Obama's original birth certificate.

      Fukino also was quoted by several other news organizations. The Honolulu Advertiser quoted Fukino as saying the agency had been bombarded by requests, and that the registrar of statistics had even been called in at home in the middle of the night.

      Honolulu Advertiser, Nov. 1 2008: "This has gotten ridiculous," state health director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said yesterday. "There are plenty of other, important things to focus on, like the economy, taxes, energy." . . . Will this be enough to quiet the doubters? "I hope so," Fukino said. "We need to get some work done."

      Fukino said she has “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

      Since we first wrote about Obama's birth certificate on June 16, speculation on his citizenship has continued apace. Some claim that Obama posted a fake birth certificate to his Web page. That charge leaped from the blogosphere to the mainstream media earlier this week when Jerome Corsi, author of a book attacking Obama, repeated the claim in an Aug. 15 interview with Steve Doocy on Fox News.

      Corsi: Well, what would be really helpful is if Senator Obama would release primary documents like his birth certificate. The campaign has a false, fake birth certificate posted on their website. How is anybody supposed to really piece together his life?

      Doocy: What do you mean they have a "false birth certificate" on their Web site?

      Corsi: The original birth certificate of Obama has never been released, and the campaign refuses to release it.

      Doocy: Well, couldn't it just be a State of Hawaii-produced duplicate?

      Corsi: No, it's a -- there's been good analysis of it on the Internet, and it's been shown to have watermarks from Photoshop. It's a fake document that's on the Web site right now, and the original birth certificate the campaign refuses to produce.

      Corsi isn't the only skeptic claiming that the document is a forgery. Among the most frequent objections we saw on forums, blogs and e-mails are:

      The birth certificate doesn't have a raised seal.

      It isn't signed.

      No creases from folding are evident in the scanned version.

      In the zoomed-in view, there's a strange halo around the letters.

      The certificate number is blacked out.

      The date bleeding through from the back seems to say "2007," but the document wasn't released until 2008.

      The document is a "certification of birth," not a "certificate of birth."

      Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it's stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka (who uses a signature stamp rather than signing individual birth certificates). We even brought home a few photographs.

      The Obama birth certificate, held by FactCheck writer Joe Miller

      Alvin T. Onaka's signature stamp

      The raised seal

      Blowup of text

      You can click on the photos to get full-size versions, which haven't been edited in any way, except that some have been rotated 90 degrees for viewing purposes.

      The certificate has all the elements the State Department requires for proving citizenship to obtain a U.S. passport: "your full name, the full name of your parent(s), date and place of birth, sex, date the birth record was filed, and the seal or other certification of the official custodian of such records." The names, date and place of birth, and filing date are all evident on the scanned version, and you can see the seal above.

      The document is a "certification of birth," also known as a short-form birth certificate. The long form is drawn up by the hospital and includes additional information such as birth weight and parents' hometowns. The short form is printed by the state and draws from a database with fewer details. The Hawaii Department of Health's birth record request form does not give the option to request a photocopy of your long-form birth certificate, but their short form has enough information to be acceptable to the State Department. We tried to ask the Hawaii DOH why they only offer the short form, among other questions, but they have not given a response.

      The scan released by the campaign shows halos around the black text, making it look (to some) as though the text might have been pasted on top of an image of security paper. But the document itself has no such halos, nor do the close-up photos we took of it. We conclude that the halo seen in the image produced by the campaign is a digital artifact from the scanning process.

      We asked the Obama campaign about the date stamp and the blacked-out certificate number. The certificate is stamped June 2007, because that's when Hawaii officials produced it for the campaign, which requested that document and "all the records we could get our hands on" according to spokesperson Shauna Daly. The campaign didn't release its copy until 2008, after speculation began to appear on the Internet questioning Obama's citizenship. The campaign then rushed to release the document, and the rush is responsible for the blacked-out certificate number. Says Shauna: "[We] couldn't get someone on the phone in Hawaii to tell us whether the number represented some secret information, and we erred on the side of blacking it out. Since then we've found out it's pretty irrelevant for the outside world." The document we looked at did have a certificate number; it is 151 1961 - 010641.

      Blowup of certificate number

      Some of the conspiracy theories that have circulated about Obama are quite imaginative. One conservative blogger suggested that the campaign might have obtained a valid Hawaii birth certificate, soaked it in solvent, then reprinted it with Obama's information. Of course, this anonymous blogger didn't have access to the actual document and presents this as just one possible "scenario" without any evidence that such a thing actually happened or is even feasible.

      We also note that so far none of those questioning the authenticity of the document have produced a shred of evidence that the information on it is incorrect. Instead, some speculate that somehow, maybe, he was born in another country and doesn't meet the Constitution's requirement that the president be a "natural-born citizen."

      We think our colleagues at PolitiFact.com, who also dug into some of these loopy theories put it pretty well: "It is possible that Obama conspired his way to the precipice of the world’s biggest job, involving a vast network of people and government agencies over decades of lies. Anything’s possible. But step back and look at the overwhelming evidence to the contrary and your sense of what’s reasonable has to take over."

      In fact, the conspiracy would need to be even deeper than our colleagues realized. In late July, a researcher looking to dig up dirt on Obama instead found a birth announcement that had been published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961:

      Obama's birth announcement

      The announcement was posted by a pro-Hillary Clinton blogger who grudgingly concluded that Obama "likely" was born Aug. 4, 1961 in Honolulu.

      Of course, it's distantly possible that Obama's grandparents may have planted the announcement just in case their grandson needed to prove his U.S. citizenship in order to run for president someday. We suggest that those who choose to go down that path should first equip themselves with a high-quality tinfoil hat. The evidence is clear: Barack Obama was born in the U.S.A.

      Update, August 26: We received responses to some of our questions from the Hawaii Department of Health. They couldn't tell us anything about their security paper, but they did answer another frequently-raised question: why is Obama's father's race listed as "African"? Kurt Tsue at the DOH told us that father's race and mother's race are supplied by the parents, and that "we accept what the parents self identify themselves to be." We consider it reasonable to believe that Barack Obama, Sr., would have thought of and reported himself as "African." It's certainly not the slam dunk some readers have made it out to be.

      When we asked about the security borders, which look different from some other examples of Hawaii certifications of live birth, Kurt said "The borders are generated each time a certified copy is printed. A citation located on the bottom left hand corner of the certificate indicates which date the form was revised." He also confirmed that the information in the short form birth certificate is sufficient to prove citizenship for "all reasonable purposes."

      –by Jess Henig, with Joe Miller

      Sources

      United States Department of State. "Application for a U.S. Passport." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

      State of Hawaii Department of Health. "Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record." Accessed 20 Aug. 2008.

      Hollyfield, Amy. "Obama's Birth Certificate: Final Chapter." Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.

      The Associated Press. "State declares Obama birth certificate genuine" 31 Oct 2008.

      Nakaso, Dan. "Obama's certificate of birth OK, state says; Health director issues voucher in response to 'ridiculous' barrage" Honolulu Advertiser 1 Nov 2008.

      5 years ago
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      0 Disagreed
    5. You are so on target. Why the heck would Obama just not show his LBC? He has destroyed many folks confidence in government. May God help us...

      5 years ago
      0 Agreed
      0 Disagreed
    6. Here is the legal certificate posted for all:

      http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2008/06/obama-birth.html

      5 years ago
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      0 Disagreed
    7. I don't think the birth certificate posted on the Internet is fake, but just ask yourself, if you have your own real birth certificate with you, why would you get a computer-generated 2007 version unless you don't want others to look at your real one. Then why?

      5 years ago
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      0 Disagreed
  94. Have you ever even seen a Certificate of Live Birth for any other president, let alone a Birth Certificate? But go ahead, if you don't like the message, blame the messenger.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  95. Yes it is more important.

    TheObamaFile.com

    The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com

    for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials

    This informative site presents the most historically accurate, legally correct and genuinely unbiased credible explanation of the eligibility issue I have found, following several months of studious searching for accurate clarification, of what I now regretfully regard as an illegal usurpation of the office of the President of the United States of America.

    Obviously calling onto question the constitutional eligibility of a sitting president is a serious matter, however our president is not above the rule of law. The Constitution is our greatest protection from abusive government. Throughout the history of mankind, political power has frequently been seized irrespective of the will of the governed, often violently. Perhaps owing to our imperfect nature, totalitarianism has more often been the rule, rather than the exception.

    Our Constitution as first envisioned and ultimately realized by the benefits of both pen and sword, was founded as a heart felt invention of necessity by men so deathly tired of oppression, that they determined despite any cost, to establish our Constitutional Republic. With the Constitution, our Founding Father's planted a seed in soil richly nourished in blood, that with similar courage United States citizens might forever more be able to exercise their God given inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in at least one free and just nation upon the face of the earth.

    Respectfully, a Vet.

    The Constitution still matters,

    but only for as long as 'we the people', by continuing to support and defend it, say so!

    The Constitution will protect the citizens for as long as the citizens protect the Constitution.

    Please consider the following:

    http://www.theobamafile.com

    Especially this particular TheObamaFile.com page:

    http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  96. I have read all the rhetoric and inuendo.

    I say GET THIS DONE.

    Show us all BARACK!!

    No copies, no nothing.

    Provide us your actual BIRTH CERTIFICATE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!

    Thank you so very much.

    American Citizen

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  97. felkakarp: Have we ever had another president of such secretive, dubious and suspicious background and birthplace? Even McCain's citizenship eligibility was brought before hearing and confirmed. Are you suggesting we apply different rules for Obama?

    Oh, and nice pace at trying to distract and divert from the real issue. I take it you've read Alinsky's book?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  98. all this bull still says one thing...obama is ilegal and paying lots of money to hide it...black or white...you are screwed if nothing is done. and he IS the President...If Demo's are just now whinning about Bushe's BC...why the heck didnt they do it in the last 8 yrs he was in office?? DUHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  99. Let's place the Honorable Mr President in Lansing Penitentiary, until "He" can find the Real Deal (LONG FORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE).

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  100. I don't personally care if the president was born is Ethiopia or Brazil, but it is the peoples right to have the proof. I can't even drive on public roads without proper ID, or even enter a federal building when I am a jury member without going throuh a search. Now we have a man as president that we don't have any proof at all of who he probably really is.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  101. How many presidents have paid to hide their Birth Certificate's ???.....How many times have American's asked other President's to prove it???? If you had questions before you should have asked then....dont wait till the sore has healed over to cry....Hundreds and thousands want to know NOW....their common sence tells them danger is in the air...If you are lacking the sence to know the difference...than shut up..live the present and get out of the past.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  102. I've had to obtain certified copies of my birth certificate to renew my drivers license and obtain a passport. I've also seen the "long form" (photocopy) of my original birth certificate and know it exists. I would be willing to release this and other documents to anyone to establish my citizenship and identity.

    Why won't President Obama release his "long form" birth certificate that states, unequivocally, what hospital, city, state, parents and attending physicians/nurses, that were present during his birth??

    What is there to hide?? This is the response from a law professor?? This is the response of someone who's sworn to defend and protect the Constitution?? Which Constitution is he defending and does he know what's in the Constitution??

    Is the Constitution a hindrance to a "law" professor from fulfilling his duties??

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  103. If Demo's are just now whinning about Bushe's BC...why the heck didnt they do it in the last 8 yrs he was in office?

    That just shows how well he covered his tracks.

    How many presidents have paid to hide their Birth Certificate's?

    George Bush did. Read my post again.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  104. We didn't need Bush's birth certificate...Obama has a shady past and what made it more shady was he did NOT post his original long form birth certificate. When anyone works for the federal government, they must show their long form original birth certificate. Obama has not done that.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  105. If Obama has nothing to hide, why won't he show the long form birth certificate? It's simple. There is no defense when hiding that.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  106. We want Obama's original birth certificate. Stop playing like he's shown it, he hasn't. Simple, show it.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  107. sheplazguitar

    "black or white"?

    That doesn't have anything to do with it, does it?

    Na-a-a-ah!!!

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  108. Why didn't all the leftie demo's stand up and demand to see Bush's BC while he was in office??? why are you waiting untill now to say something...I never saw one bilboard asking for Bush's BC....I did not see a well respected Republican Attorney fighting for truth and demanding to see it....I did not see floods and floods or internet news on it...Nor dozens of states filling lawsuits...nor HAVE I EVER SEEN BUSH WEARING MUSLIM GARB AND HANGING OUT WITH TERRORIST !

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  109. Change the law so that there is no birth certificate requirement for public office. We live in a global community and the requirement is archaic and useless. Let Obama be president wherever he was born.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  110. longshot9999 Idea Submitter

    So it's okay if we waterboard people as long as we get a chance to see Obama's birth certificate (given a choice between the two priorities)?

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  111. He can't produce a 'long form vault Hawaiian birth certificate' because he doesn't have one! He has a CoLB, or Certificate of Live Birth, which is not the same thing as a BC and proves nothing except that he was born alive, somewhere. This is because as a new state at the time, Hawaii often issued a CoLB even to foreign born children who were allowed to be brought to Hawaii and registered with the state, provided at least one parent was a legal resident of Hawaii. Even if he did have a real BC, it wouldn't matter since he can not be a 'natural born' citizen unless both his parents are also US citizens. His father is Kenyan. Oh, the webs we weave. The missing BC is really just an expedient way to demonstrate he lied about posting his BC, which one might expect from an illegal usurper!

    TheObamaFile.com

    The United States Library of Congress has selected TheObamaFile.com

    for inclusion in its historic collection of Internet materials

    This informative site presents the most historically accurate, legally correct and genuinely unbiased credible explanation of the eligibility issue I have found, following several months of studious searching for accurate clarification, of what I now regretfully regard as an illegal usurpation of the office of the President of the United States of America.

    Obviously calling onto question the constitutional eligibility of a sitting president is a serious matter, however our president is not above the rule of law. The Constitution is our greatest protection from abusive government. Throughout the history of mankind, political power has frequently been seized irrespective of the will of the governed, often violently. Perhaps owing to our imperfect nature, totalitarianism has more often been the rule, rather than the exception.

    Our Constitution as first envisioned and ultimately realized by the benefits of both pen and sword, was founded as a heart felt invention of necessity by men so deathly tired of oppression, that they determined despite any cost, to establish our Constitutional Republic. With the Constitution, our Founding Father's planted a seed in soil richly nourished in blood, that with similar courage United States citizens might forever more be able to exercise their God given inalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness in at least one free and just nation upon the face of the earth.

    Respectfully, a Vet.

    The Constitution still matters,

    but only for as long as 'we the people', by continuing to support and defend it, say so!

    The Constitution will protect the citizens for as long as the citizens protect the Constitution.

    Please consider the following:

    http://www.theobamafile.com

    Especially this particular TheObamaFile.com page:

    http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  112. I think Bush should be asked to produce his birth certificate. He would comply. He's got nothing to hide there.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  113. Please-I don't agree with your politics, I do hope your policies fail-you're damaging the America I have grown up and lived in for the past 56 years. You're stealing the dreams of my children as they strike out on their own and giving them to ne'r do wells in the name of equality. For God's sake man-you are drunk with power and that worries me as you step behind the wheel of GM. But for goodness sakes don't speak out both sides of your mouth on this issue-just make it go away by producing the documents. That way we can concentrate on the how to overcome the destructiveness of your ideology and not be hounded by these crazy conspiracy freaks.

    5 years ago
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    1. Ditto for me on this.

      5 years ago
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  114. It's all they have left longshot9999, no ideas, just their tinfoil hat conspiracy theories. But check this out,

    Idea # 1624: PROOF of Bush Birth Certificate Coverup

    It has even more negative votes than yours and far nastier comments.

    5 years ago
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  115. wow. even though I completely disagreed with Bush I never once hoped he would fail. I always hoped for the best with every president. I want the president to succeed because I want our country to be great.

    5 years ago
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  116. eegads, How did a socialistic/facist post here??

    Oh MY!!!!

    5 years ago
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  117. Show your original Birth Certificate to Prove you are a LEGAL President.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  118. President Obama, you cannot legally lead our armed forces without a valid long form birth certificate. You are placing all our officers in danger of violating their oath of office. Show the form or resign.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  119. So that's a thumbs up then, YAY!!

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  120. Get used to saying, "Heil, Obama!"..............

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  121. Mr. Soteras you are a disgrace to this country.

    Don't wait until after the census (your real objective) to prove yourself the fraud you are.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  122. This should be pretty simple. If there is a real birth cert then produce it. If not, then step down.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  123. Barak Husein Obama:

    As the people susposedly hired you, you answer to them. They would like to know the following:

    1. Of what country did you have a passport when you went to Kenya in 1981. Americans were not allowed to go to Kenya then.

    2. You went to a school in Malaysia in which on Malaysian citizens could go to. Did your school transcript list you a a Malaysian citizens?

    3. I was also born in Hawaii about the same time as you. We would like to see the back side fo your "Certificate of Birth", where it lists the doctor, the place fo birth. parents nationalities, etc. Why have you sepnt more then $800,000 hiding this?

    4. We would like to see your application to Occidental college where it is beleived you went scholarship or aide for foreigners.

    4. We would liek to see your application for Harvard, where it is beleived you also went on foreign aide of scholarship.

    5. We would like to see the verificarion that all the monies you got online for your campaign. It is beleived that much of these monies cannot be traced and were from non-citizens.

    6. You took an oath in which you swore to protect the US Constitution and uphold the laws. Articla 4 of the constitution states the federal government will protect the states form invasion. The states have been invaded by tens of millions. Many armed and who want to cause harm to the US. One in ten of more of all who enetr the US illegally are felons. When will you fulfill this oath and close the border? When will you rid the states fo the tens of millions who are here illegally?

    7. It is the presidents job to protect Americans. This includes their jobs. When will you stop pandering to big business and stop letting big business from sending good paying jobs overseas? American workers canot compete with others making $1/hr in a unfair playing feild.

    In your campaign, you continually promised transparency. Since the election, you have doen nothing but hide things citizens wish to see concerning the Office of the Presidency.

    You also promised not to vote on legislation until in was online to view for seven days. Since you have taken office, you have pushed through much legislation in which the congressmen did not even have time to read. This type fo legislating creates waste, fraud, and bad law.

    You must always rememebr for it is for the people you work. They put you in office and they can take you out of office. It has been done before.

    Also, never forget America is A Christian nation that was founded on Judeo-Christian beleifs. It is your job to protect these beleifs.

    Americans deserve the truth and the facts. You work for them and if you do not respect them enough then to honestly answer the questions the ask, then you should step aside from the office of president and let soemone who will be honest in office.

    We, Americans, are tired of a government in which does not listen to the people. If the government does not start listening, I feel the people will revolt. This includes closing the borders. The people may take it into their own hands. It also includes, businesses hiring illegals. The people may begin to enforce this law themselves. If the governemnt does not do what they swore to do, then the people feel they must do it.

    I hope you are listening. I am writing because I hear what the people are saying. And I would hate to see the day in which the people had to take the law into their own hands.

    5 years ago
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  124. President Usurper Obama,

    Show us the Birth Certificate. Don't tell us to go to snopes or your factcheck.org. America wants to see the real thing and let our experts examine it.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  125. There is absolutely no reason that people should still question this issue Mr. Obama. All of your records should be released. As a man with nothing to hide, as a man that has promised the most open administration there is no reason to not make these open to the public. When you decided to run for the president you made all aspects of your life public interest and your qualifications must be made public record. You cloud your own presidency and dishonor your service by helping keep the 'conspiracy' alive. Its situations like this that force a man to use logic and common sense to come to a conclusion and the conclusion that I come to is that there is something to hide. Prove us all wrong sir.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  126. $400,000? That's about 12 Obama "dates" on the town. Give me a break. President Obama has spent over $1 million in legal fees to suppress access to his documents. Dear President, I'll show you my long form birth certificate and college records if you show me yours.

    5 years ago
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  127. Fellow citizens, ask your congressman and Senators to ask Mr. Obama for permission to view the birth documents on file in Hawaii (along with an independent documents expert). If there is a legitimate birth document on file there, then Mr. Obama should be happy to provide the necessary permission (in order to settle the matter once and for all). If Mr. Obama does not permit such an inspection, it is because he is a FRAUD.

    5 years ago
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  128. There is no law to change..our Constitution requires that the President be a citizen of this country. And as we can all see now, that is so that our country is protected from the very likes of Mr Obama. He has spat on our faces in his meeting with foreign leaders. And he is not ever proven that he has the eligability to even be in the office of President. Think about it, we have to show proof of who we are to do anything today. To make sure we are not a terrorist from any other county. And right now sitting in the seat of President of the USA is a man that cannot even and never has proven he has that right. He is a fraud. And he is bringing disgrace and shame to the flag of this country. And we all sit back with our hands tied.. why???..... If you are legit then show us...

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  129. This is ridiculous and a waste of valuable time and energy. The American people voted this man in by a significant margin and this remains unchallenged by the US Congress, the Supreme Court or any major news network? Why? Because he's a citizen.

    Review the 14th ammendment please and if you need to consult a constitutional lawyer, please do so but let's not waste valuable time and energy with rumors. You can also just google it and look it up on Snopes.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  130. This is ridiculous and a waste of valuable time and energy. The American people voted this man in by a significant margin and this remains unchallenged by the US Congress, the Supreme Court or any major news network? Why? Because he's a citizen.

    Review the 14th ammendment please and if you need to consult a constitutional lawyer, please do so but let's not waste valuable time and energy with rumors. You can also just google it and look it up on Snopes.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  131. if this is a waste of valuable time and energy why is he or someone spending 7 untold amounts of money to keep it "secret". If he is so legit, then why wont he produce it?

    The answer is the same as before "IT DOESNT EXIST" AND IT PROBABLY NEVER WILL, he is a fraud and a scamer like almost all the politicians are. I SAY WE FIRE THEM ALL, AND START OVER AGAIN!

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  132. I am incapable of wishing success to a person whose plan is to destroy our nation.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  133. M G

    Mr. Barry Sotowero: I would appreciate you producing:

    1. Your LEGAL (long-form, ACTUAL) Birth Certificate

    2. Your papers stating that your LEGAL name is:?? Barry Sotowero OR Barrack H. Obama. ONE WAY OR THE OTHER>

    3. You graduated from WhAT High School? (Prove it.)

    4. You graduated from WHAT COLLEGE? (Prove it, and prove your G.P.A.)

    5. IF you have a law degree, in which State are you licensed? (Prove it.)

    Everyone ELSE who has EVER run for President has been examined and grilled, and examined again. You got a pass by the Electoral College AND the Main Stream Media, thus WE KNOW NOTHING.

    There is a very GOOD chance that you may have done what so many immigrants have wanted to do: become President. If your Mother was 18 years old and in Kenya at the time of your birth, you are a British subject. If your Step Father adopted you, and you did nothing to change that, then you are a Indonesian. I am aware that you travelled to Pakistan in 1980 when NATURAL BORN AMERICANS WERE NOT PERMITTED TO TRAVEL TO PAKISTAN. What Passport did you use?

    Mr. Barry/Barrack Sotowero/Obama there are just too many questions which YOU HAVE YET TO ANSWER, and being defensive is NEVER the choice of an honest person.

    If you are in violation of MY Constitution, then you have committed a terrible crime against MY Nation and ALL AMERICANS.

    I would appreciate knowing ALL the answers to my questions.

    5 years ago
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  134. America is beginning to see the truth. If Obama had nothing to hide, he would have produced the documents before the election. He needs to answer these questions once and for all. They are not going away. These questions are really starting to make sense to more and more people. Man up.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  135. You Republiklan party cyberterrorists have the right to express your opinions, but you don't have the right as an organized group from say Frei Republik or some other Right Wingow forum to come to a government site and sabotage the site with hundreds of very similar topics about the xistence of the President's birth certificate. We realize why you're doing this, to obstruct government business. I would not find it surprising if your names haven't gotten sent to the FBI cyberterrorist units for placing hundreds of topics about Barack Obama's birth certificate. Most of you right wing zombies just registered today Jun 1 and have done cybervandalism and cyberterrorism. I don't want to see you go to GITMO. The government should send you Republiklan party members to Alcatraz instead while awaiting trial for cyberterrorism. Enjoy your freedom while you can, then off to Alcatraz with you right wing terrorists.

    The GOPranos have created the climate for the killing of Dr. Tiller. They repeatedly called 4 an end to a legal medical procedure. Now their cyberterrorists have come to this opengov site to kill open discussion and flood this site with several hundreds of entries about the birth certificate of Barack Obama. Remove this above entry and ban the user who posted it.

    5 years ago
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  136. How do I know your birth certificate isn't forged?

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  137. What does whether it's forged or not have to do with the issue?

    5 years ago
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  138. Again, "info" - Take your communist ideology elsewhere. You obviously have no argument, hence the hate-filled name calling. Cyberterrorists? Please! Grow up kid. Calling people who disagree with you "cyberterrorists" doesn't automatically make it such. You've been reading too much Harry Potter. Did it ever occur to you, that we all have legitimate concerns about the birth certificate issue? Just because your view is the extremist minority view, doesn't mean that those of us expressing OUR concerns are invalid, or some sort of "cyber-vandalism" or "cyber-terrorism."

    I'm surprised you're so adoring of Bush's fear-mongering tactics. It says volumes about you, that you want anyone who disagrees with you to be sent to imprisonment, constitution and due process be damned. Why can't you simply present a cogent argument for your position? You're just a trouble maker, with nothing intelligent to say. Like I said before, your communist ideology of "silence the opposition" just reveals the pathetic character you are. Rather than cherish American freedom and values, you prefer totalitarian rule where all who disagree with you are eliminated. You freakin Nazi. And no one is here to "obstruct government business." What an asinine and hyper-alarmist piece of hyperbolic drivel.

    You have made no cogent argument for your viewpoint, no logical counterpoints, and have posited no realistic debate points. All you have done is demand that anyone who disagrees with you be banned and silenced, and since you have no rational thing to say you do nothing but throw out argumentum ad hominem and vacuous hate speech. Your intolerance and bigotry are profound. If you can't grow up and act like an adult, then just go back to your communist forums and leave this very important discussion to those of us (on both sides) who actually care about this country and having intelligent discussion. Now go ahead and get lost, okay?

    5 years ago
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  139. So INFO, let's see if I got this right. If all of us right wing nuts are asking a legitimate question that has not been answered since the primary season, we are going to be subject to a terrorist investigation; is that right?

    The media watchdogs were asleep all through the campaign season. This is not a new issue, it was brought up long ago and never answered. McCain's citizenship was questioned and vetted by the media, but Obama's was questioned but not vetted and even fought by every legal avenue to conceal. Those who quote the Snopes site or Factcheck fail to mention that those documents they verify are not the long form birth certificate. There is also the question of the passport used in 1980 to visit Pakistan and the concealment of school records. Inquiring minds want to know.

    5 years ago
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  140. I can understand wanting Obama to release his birth information but this subject has become a bit of a campaign by too many. Just vote yes or no and stop blocking other suggestions.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  141. Obama's (citizenship status)eligibility is a priority because, if he was never eligible for office, then all the destructive decisions he has made are invalid. That way we might have a change to pull out of this mess.

    5 years ago
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  142. WE do not live in a global community. WE chose to live in a soverign nation with its own laws and standards. If you want to live somewhere without birth certificates, by all means do so.

    5 years ago
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  143. An essay on the Birth Certificate issue:

    Why Can't Obama Give a Simple and Truthful Answer to the Birth Certificate Question?

    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/05/why-cant-obama-give-simple-and-truthful.html

    RJ

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  144. An essay on the Birth Certificate issue:

    Why Can't Obama Give a Simple and Truthful Answer to the Birth Certificate Question?

    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/05/why-cant-obama-give-simple-and-truthful.html

    RJ

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  145. Watching the campaign for president it is clear that this birth certificate spoof is an underground smear attempt. Looking back through the generations for some constitutional fragment that somehow will discredit the president, Republicans sure are jealous, they have nothing what so ever to offer but the hole they dig themselves, instead of seriously attending to true issues of governance. In the end all this pathetic slander that spilled out on this site today will only alienate the supposed benefactors of this gross attack. This site is available for the world to see. It is the partners of America; it is America’s allies that will see this attack for what it is. A feeble attack against the President, an attack against a President that brought the ability of open governance and respect for all humanity to the world stage like no other leader before. The 21st century needed to leave disgraceful behaviour in problem solving behind and start behaving like the future generations of citizen’s matter. Today the single phrase wrapped in slander and disrespect demonstrates that the right choice was made on Election Day.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  146. Does it matter whether President Obama's Certificate of Live Birth is forged or not? Actually No because you all say it is anyway, without any factual basis whatsoever to back it up, just like if you saw his birth certificate you'd say he faked that too without any factual basis whatsoever to back it up, and just like there's no factual basis for saying that Obama has spent millions to make sure the long form birth certificate, passport records, and school records are hidden from the public. Give me just one link that shows a factual basis for any of these tinfoil hat claims.

    5 years ago
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  147. Oh do a web search already! It's been posted in multiple sites. By your reasoning McCain wasn't a citizen cause he was born in Panama!

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23841816/

    But it doesn't matter to you, no matter the evidence you'll believe the wacko conspiracy theories and disregard ANY evidence. Even if you went to the hospital and were handed the ORIGINAL certificate it would be a fake. Just like those who deny the Holocaust, moon landings and evolution.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  148. You're either ignorant of our claims and arguments, or once again practicing the art of intentionally distracting from the issue. I have not claimed the COLB is forged. It is 100% authentic. But it is NOT the original long form birth certificate, no more so than a hand-written Bill of Sale is the same as a vehicle Title. It is merely a document that one could obtain as proof the baby was born alive and the information for that form is accepted de facto from the parent requesting the form. It has no attending physician or hospital information, and is not even accepted in Hawaii as a legitimate birth certificate. It's authentic all right - but not an authentic long form birth certificate, only an authentic "short form" certification of live birth. Stop dodging the issue and address why Obama does not want his original long form birth certificate revealed.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  149. What is ridiculous and a waste of our valuable time money and energy is to have Obama for president...remember his using your money as well as mine with his stimulus package and then some, so I don't mind "wasting" a little bit more to find out the thruth behind this man, who has not yet proven that he is a citizen, just all the other presidents preciding him. If he wants transperency, let him produce the papers...and that should shut us all up if in fact he is who he says he is....

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  150. I did address it. You weren't paying attention.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  151. No you didn't, and you know you didn't. And you still won't. Watch, even as you read this, you will be afraid to address it and will just respond with more distraction from the issue and maybe a few good non sequiturs (your entire house of cards) thrown in.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  152. Where is your long form birth certificate? Until such time as the birth certificate is produced, you sir have not been properly vetted as a candidate much less as president. End this debate and open the records that will provide proof of your eligibility. While you are at it release your school records. End the debate once and for all.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  153. Watching the campaign for president it is clear that this birth certificate spoof is an underground smear attempt. Looking back through the generations for some constitutional fragment that somehow will discredit the president, Republicans sure are jealous, they have nothing what so ever to offer but the hole they dig themselves, instead of seriously attending to true issues of governance. In the end all this pathetic slander that spilled out on this site today will only alienate the supposed benefactors of this gross attack. This site is available for the world to see. It is the partners of America; it is America’s allies that will see this attack for what it is. A feeble attack against the President, an attack against a President that brought the ability of open governance and respect for all humanity to the world stage like no other leader before. The 21st century needed to leave disgraceful behaviour in problem solving behind and start behaving like the future generations of citizen’s matter. Today the single phrase wrapped in slander and disrespect demonstrates that the right choice was made on Election Day.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  154. Watching the campaign for president it is clear that this birth certificate spoof is an underground smear attempt. Looking back through the generations for some constitutional fragment that somehow will discredit the president, Republicans sure are jealous, they have nothing what so ever to offer but the hole they dig themselves, instead of seriously attending to true issues of governance. In the end all this pathetic slander that spilled out on this site today will only alienate the supposed benefactors of this gross attack. This site is available for the world to see. It is the partners of America; it is America’s allies that will see this attack for what it is. A feeble attack against the President, an attack against a President that brought the ability of open governance and respect for all humanity to the world stage like no other leader before. The 21st century needed to leave disgraceful behaviour in problem solving behind and start behaving like the future generations of citizen’s matter. Today the single phrase wrapped in slander and disrespect demonstrates that the right choice was made on Election Day.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  155. Watching the campaign for president it is clear that this birth certificate spoof is an underground smear attempt. Looking back through the generations for some constitutional fragment that somehow will discredit the president, Republicans sure are jealous, they have nothing what so ever to offer but the hole they dig themselves, instead of seriously attending to true issues of governance. In the end all this pathetic slander that spilled out on this site today will only alienate the supposed benefactors of this gross attack. This site is available for the world to see. It is the partners of America; it is America’s allies that will see this attack for what it is. A feeble attack against the President, an attack against a President that brought the ability of open governance and respect for all humanity to the world stage like no other leader before. The 21st century needed to leave disgraceful behaviour in problem solving behind and start behaving like the future generations of citizen’s matter. Today the single phrase wrapped in slander and disrespect demonstrates that the right choice was made on Election Day.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  156. Watching the campaign for president it is clear that this birth certificate spoof is an underground smear attempt. Looking back through the generations for some constitutional fragment that somehow will discredit the president, Republicans sure are jealous, they have nothing what so ever to offer but the hole they dig themselves, instead of seriously attending to true issues of governance. In the end all this pathetic slander that spilled out on this site today will only alienate the supposed benefactors of this gross attack. This site is available for the world to see. It is the partners of America; it is America’s allies that will see this attack for what it is. A feeble attack against the President, an attack against a President that brought the ability of open governance and respect for all humanity to the world stage like no other leader before. The 21st century needed to leave disgraceful behaviour in problem solving behind and start behaving like the future generations of citizen’s matter. Today the single phrase wrapped in slander and disrespect demonstrates that the right choice was made on Election Day.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  157. Another good site for information about Natural Born Citizenship:

    http://www.thebirthers.org

    RJ

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  158. If you are so concerned for "how it looks" to foreigners, shouldn't Obama (Mr. Sotero?) just produce the documents to prove his qualifications and be done with it?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  159. Many of the people in his administration hold dual citizenship as well.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  160. Another good site for information and essays about Natural Born Citizenship:

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  161. Watching the campaign for president it is clear that this birth certificate spoof is an underground smear attempt. Looking back through the generations for some constitutional fragment that somehow will discredit the president, Republicans sure are jealous, they have nothing what so ever to offer but the hole they dig themselves, instead of seriously attending to true issues of governance. In the end all this pathetic slander that spilled out on this site today will only alienate the supposed benefactors of this gross attack. This site is available for the world to see. It is the partners of America; it is America’s allies that will see this attack for what it is. A feeble attack against the President, an attack against a President that brought the ability of open governance and respect for all humanity to the world stage like no other leader before. The 21st century needed to leave disgraceful behaviour in problem solving behind and start behaving like the future generations of citizen’s matter. Today the single phrase wrapped in slander and disrespect demonstrates that the right choice was made on Election Day.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  162. I believe he studied The Constitution to plot his way around it.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  163. President Obama rightly campaigned on transparency and honesty.

    stating we hadn't had that from the Bush Republicans.

    Now he has spent hundreds of thousands of taxpayers donations/money trying to avoid showing his Long form birth certificate to the US taxpayers.

    Why?

    He campaigned on openness and transparency!

    If he won't show it publicly then he should resign as he clearly lied and is not fit for the most important job in America.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  164. President Obama rightly campaiged for openness and transparency in government and politics, shouting we need change from the rooftops.

    He stated that he would be different from the Bush Republicans who were honest and open.

    Since then he has spent hundreds of thousands of public donations to avoid showing his long form birth certificate to the people of the USA.

    Until he shows his Long Form Birth certificate he comes across as a Liar and a fraud, hence the growing public agitation over the issue.

    Its a matter of integrity and honestly over hypocrisy.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  165. President Obama rightly campaiged for openness and transparency in government and politics, shouting we need change from the rooftops.

    He stated that he would be different from the Bush Republicans who were honest and open.

    Since then he has spent hundreds of thousands of public donations to avoid showing his long form birth certificate to the people of the USA.

    Until he shows his Long Form Birth certificate he comes across as a Liar and a fraud, hence the growing public agitation over the issue.

    Its a matter of integrity and honestly over hypocrisy.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  166. Search the net and you will find it. Oh right, you wouldn't believe it even if you were permitted to peruse the hospital records in person cause they could be faked.

    Admit it, no matter the evidence, you will not believe it. Just like those who deny the holocaust, moon landings and evolution.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  167. Search the net and you will find it. Oh right, you wouldn't believe it even if you were permitted to peruse the hospital records in person cause they could be faked.

    Admit it, no matter the evidence, you will not believe it. Just like those who deny the holocaust, moon landings and evolution.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  168. Search the net and you will find it. Oh right, you wouldn't believe it even if you were permitted to peruse the hospital records in person cause they could be faked.

    Admit it, no matter the evidence, you will not believe it. Just like those who deny the holocaust, moon landings and evolution.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  169. Ha Ha Ha, Obama "won" a fraudulent election by not being eligible for the office, there's NO "getting over" that! NULL & VOID.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  170. Easiest solution is to just show the long form. Issue solved. Eligible or not?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  171. karidrgn,

    do some research and you will find that on the image you purport to be conclusive it states quite clearly "any alterations invalidate this certificate". The Cert# has been redacted. Redacted = altered = invalid certificate. Do you deny these facts?!

    Please locate for us a valid certificate. Preferably with name of hospital and doctor. That is all the proof that most of us need.

    Thank you.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  172. klingspoon.troy,

    "Consitutional fragment"...WHAT?! Are you kidding?! That the framers sought to only allow natural born citizens to be eligible to serve as POTUS is a "Consitutional fragment" to you? WOW, just WOW!

    Any other clauses in the Constitution that you'd like to call out as a "fragment"?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  173. I can't beleive it could even happen in this country that such a man could be elected that can't even prove his citizenship. Of course it would never have been brought up if he had one. His school records are sealed as well, and he is spending millions to defend himself. Why so? McCain had to prove his citizenship, but not Obama? I hope we can finally get this resolved. It is an embarrassment and a travesty.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  174. If Mr Obama doesn't want to show us his long-form birth record... then please tell us... what's the name of the hospital where he was born and who were the attending physicians at his birth. We'd love to speak with the hospital administration and the physicians. I'm sure it would be great publicity and a great honor for them to say the president of the US was born here. It that's the case???

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  175. flagged as spam - touting the "Birthers" which is a borderline domestic terrorist cell.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  176. It is a legitimate concern for every American citizen: No ONE is above the constitution. There is a critical reason that these documents (the original long form) need to be made public. Otherwise, the message is clear: Mr. Obama sees himself NOT a citizen under the law, but an exception ABOVE the Law. It also screams that the rest of his rhetoric about openness and accountability is clearly a sham.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  177. DO YOUR RESEARCH:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

    SO WOULD YOU PREFER TO HAVE BIDEN AS PRESIDENT AND PELOSI AS VP???

    Becarful what you wish for...

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  178. DO YOUR RESEARCH:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

    SO WOULD YOU PREFER TO HAVE BIDEN AS PRESIDENT AND PELOSI AS VP???

    Becarful what you wish for....

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  179. DO YOUR RESEARCH:

    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

    SO WOULD YOU PREFER TO HAVE BIDEN AS PRESIDENT AND PELOSI AS VP???

    Becarful what you wish for.....

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  180. why is it important? If he isn't a natural born citizen, then he never shuld have been put in te White House and everything he has done in that office since Jan 20 is INVALID, NULL, KAPUT.

    There are very good reason for the natural born citizen requirement put in the U.S. constitution by the founders. They intended to ensure that presidents are truly native and have the spirit and best interests of the U.S. and its CITIZENS at heart at all times, in all decisions and actions. It doesn't seem like we have that now. We want to see REAL proof, not defensive legal action to avoid proof, not counterfeit certificates posted on teh Internet and "Certificates of Live Birth," which are NOT long form Birth Certificates and do NOT prove natural born citizenship. We also want, no DEMAND, to see school, work and travel records.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  181. IF he is not ELIGIBLE to be our President, it doesn't change the fact that Biden does qualify and that he is the Current VP.... IF Obama is removed the election would not be overturned... BIDEN would fill his spot and the Speaker would move to VP...

    BTW - I did not vote for Obama... and this issue was brought before the court system in PA before the election took place. IF the RNC REALLY believed this to be valid... don't you think they would have spent the $500K on fighting his eligibility in court rather than spending it on Palin's clothes????

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  182. The saddest thing about this issue is that most of the people who voted for Obama COULDN'T CARE LESS if he is constitutionally ineligible.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  183. PROOF of Bush Birth Certificate Coverup

    Think about it! Have you ever seen George W. Bush's Birth Certificate OR a Certificate of Live Birth? And I have links to document it.

    http://irregulartimes.com/index.php/archives/2009/05/16/proof-of-bush-birth-certificate-coverup/

    Well, hey then, kids! Let’s check out legal fees paid out by the Bush-Cheney campaign of 2004, also after the finish of the campaign! Just for kicks and giggles, we’ll limit our search to legal fees paid out by a subset of the Republicans’ 2004 campaign: the Bush-Cheney compliance committee. I’ll even document the searches:

    Report #1,http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00388579/162489/sb/ALL

    Report #2.http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00388579/170858/sb/ALL

    The total dollar amount of legal fees paid out after the election by the Bush campaign, according to these reports, is $337,172! And that’s just in 2005 dollars. In 2009 dollars that would be nearly $400,000! And there wasn’t even a presidential transition after the 2004 election.

    That can only mean one thing: George W. Bush was really born in Bhutan! I mean, what else besides the desperate attempt by the Bush campaign to hide Dubya’s “real” birth certificate could explain these legal fees?

    Go on, spread this new truth far and wide. Bush, the Illegitimate Bhutano-Fascist Pretender to the Presidency! Now It Can Be Told!

    Why Is This Idea Important?

    Two issues are really at hand here - one being violation of the constitutional qualifications, and the other being Bush's determination to hide information.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  184. If Obama's deception is uncovered and corrective and punitive measures are taken, what happens to those who were complicit, and who would that include?

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  185. There are also penalties for frivolous litigation.

    5 years ago
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  186. Way to go longshot9999!! Good job!!!!

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  187. This is absolutely ridiculous. I laugh at you today Republican party.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  188. Why do the most vehement Obama supporters feel the need to ascribe dehumanizing, stereotype labels to those who disagree with them. Can we discuss an issue without degenerating to name calling?

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  189. copleykj--actually this country is, or at least was intended to be, a democratic republic, not a direct democracy.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  190. yeah, that ended with the start of the federalist movement and the drafting of the Constitution.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  191. Hope we can all learn something from this, but in my experience with small minded demagogues- there is rarely anything that can be done to get either them or their blind followers to listen to any sort of reason. No one is really open to debate here, and what was a beautiful attempt at exercising the finer aspects of our American freedoms has now descended into a conversation based in conspiratorial lunacy. I'm really sorry that it has come to this- as it's just one more thing to support the fact that the majority of American's aren't responsible enough or intelligent enough to handle the freedoms they so often quote.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  192. Until you produce your birth certificate, you are a fraud, Obama.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  193. In 1 day this topic got over 4000 votes?

    I think something is fishy that an anti-BC topic rose so high so fast with 3000 pro votes.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  194. Oh and look comments are from 7 days ago but the idea is from 1 day.

    And most comments are for seeing the BC.

    HMMMMM, maybe someone edited the idea with some votes?

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  195. copleykj, If that is the case, why was Franklin quoted as calling the newly created government a republic immediately after the constitution was drafted?

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  196. This issue is more important to "We the people" than you will ever know, study the constitution and you'll find out. Our right to stand up and petition our government for redress of grievances is as important as disclosing the information required to become the president, it's in the constitution, and noone, not you or any other individual can take that right away from us.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  197. Why do Obama's supporters resort to ridicule in response to challenges to his legitimacy? They are merely following the precepts laid out in their bible, Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals". And that strategy has become so deeply ingrained, it is now reflexive.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  198. This is a very strange turn of events.

    A few questions to the Obama Birther Movement:

    Q1: “What news agency or personality is advocating the idea that Obama is not a native son?”

    Q2: “Is the Supreme Court at fault for not defending the Constitution of the United States in regards to presidential status requirements?”

    Q3: “Is the Obama Birther Movement going to sponsor a type of “Tea Party” on or near July 4th?”

    Q4: “What is the official name to the organization that wishes to see Obama’s birth certificate?” Note: “Obama Birther Movement” is a named I just coined from reading a few of your arguments.

    Now we know that the other 46% of republicans have been up to. I am appalled that it takes a right wing conspiracy theory to begin the question that the constitution is not being followed. We all have suffered eight long years of constitutional decay under the Bush Jr. administration, and the only time constitutionality is even mentioned is now with this birther movement.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  199. What strikes me as very telling is that NOT ONE of the Obama apologists offers a REASONED, FACTUAL RESPONSE to the questions that are being raised. All they ever do is ridicule, name-call and try to change the subject. Their response has all the hallmarks of people whose argument is intellectually weak and whose position is ultimately indefensible.

    Also very telling is the world view of those such as longshot9999 who posted this "idea"- the view that other issues such as terrorism and energy independence are more important than the "birth certificate" issue. It tells me that these people really don't take the U.S. Constitution seriously enough to insist that our leaders actually abide by it. There is a name for this - it is called LAWLESSNESS.

    But we should not be surprised at this, because Mr. Obama himself has opined that the Constitution is "deeply flawed." It stands to reason that a lawless person will deal with a law which they believe is "deeply flawed" by trying to ignore it altogether.

    But the eligibility issue is not going to go away, and we are already seeing events play out in stages just as Mahatma Gandhi predicted. I'd say we in Stage 2 right now:

    "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win."

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  200. did this get hijacked by a bot? how did this become number 1???

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  201. In the language of the 18th century, natural was a synonym of native. Thus 'natural language' meant native language, as explicitly stated in the first Webster's Dictionary, which also gives acquired as well as artificial as antonyms of natural. This implies that 'natural born' meant 'native born' AND that M:Cain isn't natural born, since he was born in a U.S. territory that in the meantime didn't adopt the Constitution. It thereby doesn't matter if he also was eligible to acquire citizenship via his parents, if the concept involved is strictly 'jus soli.' One thing is certain: if M:Cain had won, nobody here would be asking to verify his eligibility, even though his citizenship was acquired rather than native. Had his parents given him up for adoption in Panama, he would not have been able to acquire US citizenship after becoming an adult, and perhaps earlier. This typifies the usual practical difference between natural born and acquired citizenship, and needs to be enforced consistently.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  202. Obama is NOT eligible regardless...

    here is why;

    http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/4979-4049

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  203. While I would agree that there are no shortages of issues that need to be addressed in our country, I would suggest you ask our President how he feels about the homeless? That's one issue I haven't heard him address directly in his campaign for Office of the President of the United States or while he has been IN that office.

    I did hear him say he: Is FOR homosexuality; is FOR killing of unborn babies; has more respect for terrorists (indirectly of course); denounces that the US is a "Christian country" (I suppose the next step is to proclaim that it is a Muslim country? - very important issue there).

    He also has a blatant disregard for the security of the USA in that he assumes terrorist nations such as Iran are just kidding with us and Israel in their threats to annihilate the us (the "Great and Little Satin"). Lets see, anything else to prioritize? How about the fact that President Obama gives the impression that his goals are to tear down the US from the inside out?

    In light of where he is leading us, I would say that his ELIGIBILITY is of the utmost importance and directly related to ALL of our well being. Our constitution was NOT simply a recommendation - it was the basis of how we would LIVE with one another!!

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  204. First of all, you cannot stop homelessness with the economy like it is. If the economy picks up homelessness will go down. WTF have you personally done for the homeless? Obama constantly volunteers in shelters and kitchens.

    Second, Good for him for not trying to regulate sexuality and morality. He realizes that you'll get nowhere real fast.

    And last, the view that this is a "Christian" nation is only in a fools mind. There are many other religions that are prevalent in the country and there are also many that have a complete absence of religion all together. One of the primary reasons for the founding of this country was for the freedom to practice whatever religion you saw fit.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  205. i take it that all the people yhat dont care about the b.c also could care less that the MIGHTY U.S.A is'nt so mighty anymore while obama is out telling the muslim's how sorry & wrong the us is we are being reduced to the likes of a poor broke nation where only the political elite have anything. you kool-aid drinkers remember this when welfare is gone because the bigshots wont turn loose of anything this upsur is running us down the toilet ane day you'll all wake up and smell the TERDS

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  206. @decco1266 God forbid that the "MIGHTY U.S.A." isn't running around bullying everyone and trying to be the boss of the entire planet.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  207. 2 copleykj one day you will land on you'r knees before the almighty GOD

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  208. Reasonable factual response:

    Make your accusations all day, but until you pursue them through your congressional representatives or through court action; be prepared to be stonewalled.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  209. This post is popular but not nearly as popular as the posts asking for Obama to make his birth certificate, college record, health records and the like available.

    Count Birth Certificate comments here and you will get over 7,000 But, this site has been rigged so that the posts asking for Obama to support transparency by providing his own birth certificate, health records and college records are not properly counted, even when they do not get deleted. All of the multiple posts would not need to exist if the honest reporting of this site showed the number one request here is for Obama to release his records.

    I have done a personal count of more than 1,000 requests for his birth certificate. My analysis suggests there have been at least 7,000 request for Obama to produce his real birth certificate, college records, health records and other financial records.

    It is possible to review this site to find the most requested ideas by scanning "Top Rated" posts, but the requests for Obama's records do not show up as being top rated. Those runnig this site are cooking the results. If the results were honest people would be able to continue to vote on a single post asking for transparency of Obama's records.

    According to the liars running this website the most requested item has NOT been Obama's birth certificate.

    (My email is ricardomigrant@aol.com - inlcude your email address if you want me to reply to you)

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  210. So where is the birth certificate? Could it be that it would reveal Obama is the illegitimate child of another black man, not Obama Sr? Is this another Clinton style dodge? He hoesn't have to be honest with the American people becasue it is about sex? Clinton's mother was a bar fly... what was Obama's mother? If Obama wants to stop all the questions and clear his mother's name, all he has to do is release the birth certificate. I guess it all depends on "what is is."

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  211. Well, "ricardomigrant" since NONE of several dozen nearly identical "topics" about the birth certificate have more than about one-tenth the number of the votes as this "anti-topic" response (maximum is 203 of this writing), and they are clustered together with nearly identical vote counts, we can conclude that there are only a couple of hundred fanatics (plus their multiple sock-puppets, so the number is likely much smaller than that) interested in this issue.

    I doubt anyone reading here just fell off the turnip truck and is unfamiliar with sock puppets and astro-turfing.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  212. Why were all the Birht Cert post removed and now maybe put back?

    look at the gap in comments on this post too

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  213. Of the "liberal radicals" here, a quick show of hands of anyone that has heard of "Saul Alinsky" before being harassed by a birther... I've never heard the name before these guys started throwing it out everywhere on this site. It sounds like some of these folks have gotten hold of some of the same propagandist's viewpoint that the "left wing" is out to get them- something akin to the boogey man.

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  214. cant get the email notifications to stop

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  215. You don't have to (and probably wouldn't) be told that tactics came from Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" to be showed how to use them.

    Why is it that it's predominantly the left that resorts to ridicule and personal attacks in response to challenges of their cause?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
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  216. You get points (literally) for wording your comment so that people think they're voting FOR having Obama produce his birth certificate, when in fact you're castigating them for not coming up with solutions to the problems YOU think are more important.

    Sorry, but this is more important than finding homes for the homeless and trying to make wind energy cost effective...

    5 years ago
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  217. Enquirer- lol, because you make it so darn easy. And if you look at it from another perspective, you can see that both sides are equally guilty of ridiculing their opposition. It's easier to ridicule than debate as their is no rebuttal to ridicule- only a defensive posture that receives more ridicule for being defensive. The right does it, the left does it, the independents do it, we all do it. Doesn't make it right, but I'm just offering up the facts.

    5 years ago
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  218. The closest I come to a personal attack, is saying that nearly all elected officials from both major parties appear to be crooks. I base that on their performance while in office though, not an analysis of their personal lives.

    5 years ago
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  219. U WANT USA BACK IN THE BLACK, GET RID OF ALL ILLEGALS ON THE STREETS AND IN OUR JAILS AND SEND THEM BACK TO THEIR POINT OF ORIGIN. WE COULD PAY OFF THE NATIONAL DEBT IN 2 YRS WITH WHAT THEY COST US CITIZEN TAXPAYERS NOW. THIS CAN BE DONE SIMULTANEOUSLY WITH PRESENTATION OF THE BIRTH CERT. CONSTITUTION COMES FIRST REGARDING ANY ACTION OF ANY ADMINISTRATION. ESP. THIS ONE.

    5 years ago
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  220. Please take your whining elsewhere. You birth certificate whiners are the new Michael Moores of 2009. Would you like some cheese with that whine?

    5 years ago
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  221. Who died and left you in charge of the forum? Americans simply want to know if the man in office is legally qualified to be there. Is it a Constitutional Republic, or not? Uder Obama, we emerge, it turns out, as a defacto Socialist Dictatorship... One party rule, with a Marxist at the head of State, and criminal organizations such as ACORN harvesting and manufacturing the votes needed to retain power. And by the way, people who live in glass houses, should themselves not be throwing "whine". LOL

    5 years ago
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  222. I am really disappointed in the people who have taken over this site and destroyed what could have been something positive, by yielding to fear and confusion as they so frequently do. I hope you realize how ridiculous you all sound.

    For the record, I do have a US birth certificate -- which was when I was 19 years old, as Pennsylvania did not always provide them when I was born. So I guess I can never be President either? Well what if I agreed with you on your issues -- would you change your mind? What if I was the best human for the job?

    Remember, Jesus was a Jew, and not a US citizen either -- so you can't elect him :)

    5 years ago
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  223. Sorry to be throwing a wet blanket over your idealistic aspirations. But the people demanding validation of the legitimacy of Obama's constitutional eligibility for the office of President of the United States are neither frightened, confused, rascists or hate mongers.

    We are lovers of the constitutional principals as given to us by the inspired vision and wisdom of our Founding Fathers and the rule of law. What we hate is the idea that our voices of concern have gone largely unheard or ridiculed and in the process the things that have made this country great are being subverted and overturned and our country is being bankrupted and our children's futures being mortgaged for generations to come. And we will do WHATEVER we can within the law to make our case.

    It would be such a trivial matter to make this all go away and there are only 2 possible reasons not to. Arrogance, or fear of discovery.

    5 years ago
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  224. If Obama would produce a valid birth certificate, the issue and all these people you are dissapointed in would go away. Jesus did not, and would not have involved himself in politics, and Obama has not denied that he has a birth certificiate nor claimed to be from Pennsylvania. Obama in my opinion is neither a wonderful person, nor is he qualified for the office he has stolen with the aid of the MSM and useful idiots who only wanted "change" without regard to what said unspecified change might entail. All we can do now, is hold on as Obama takes us through the crags of socialism, while America asks bewildered, "Where is the birth certificate Mr. Obama? What are you hiding Mr. Obama?"

    Thank you for your comment though. I think that we can discuss our ideas, and that we reveal what is really on the minds of the American public, is precisly what the stated purpose of this forum. It is hardly destroyed, but rather has found its true purpose in spite of appearances that it was probably intended as a propoganda organ for Obama. The truth is a persitent thing, and often hurts those who scurry to hide it.

    5 years ago
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  225. marty_austx stated: "This is a forum for new ideas that will help make our great country even better. Instead of something constructive, you have chosen to smear with a lame conspiracy theory. People tried the same thing with Senator McCain because he was born in the Panama Canal Zone. Having to deal with garbage like this is why many citizens avoid public service.

    http://www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate"

    Marty, I think you totally misunderstand the point and the facts. John McCain had to go before a Senate Committee to prove his "Natural Born" status due to being born in the Panama Canal Zone. Why didn't Obama have to do the same? Why doesn't he just put an end to all this once and for all and release his actual birth certificate? Even if the one that was photoshopped and put on the Daily Kos long before it appeared on Obama's own website is a valid Certification, the computer printout with very basic information on it is not what people want to see. The actual birth certificate on file in Hawaii that no one can access is the hand-written one with the doctor's and hospital's names on it. Why waste all our time with this? That is on Obama to release it, as Hawaii stated that even the Governor of Hawaii didn't have the power to release it. Obama is spending over a million dollars to make certain it ISN'T released. That just begs the question why, especially in the light of testimony from several family members that his citizenship is elsewhere. The truth of the matter is that if he had released it after being elected, the 12th Ammendment allows for Congress to override the "natural born" requirement by a 2/3 majority vote, so why not release it no matter what? They can overturn this "constitutional disability" and he stays elected anyway. He is keeping the scandal going, not the people who want a simple answer.

    5 years ago
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  226. i is a conservative frum de south an obamer wil take my guns away frum me. i enjoi huntin, nascar, muddin' and chewin tobaccer.

    obama is a muslim for the iran. he is best frends with bin laden becuz his name is 'huessin'. now, i only went to the 8th grade twise and it takes no high skool deploma man to figure that out.

    thats all the rezons why he aint got no dam birth certifikate. rush limbough told me so.

    5 years ago
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  227. Typical Obama style racism. Jeremiah Wright would be proud of you sir.

    5 years ago
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  228. yer obel. i furgot bout the wright satinist. obamer aint no christion that was all skripted from el quita

    bush/palin and cheney 08

    5 years ago
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  229. I for one think the next person (and everyone after) to make another additional redundant new thread regarding the birth certificate issue should receive a 3 day suspension from this site for abuse. If they do it again, permanent ban. They are no longer contributing to a good cause at that point, they are now playing a smear politics game on a website that is less about the politics of these issues and more about getting the issues out in the open and on to public discussion platforms. The Obama birth certificate conspiracy is not a new issue, its old news. Cluttering these forums with your whining hurts your cause even more. It will help you about as much as it helped the gays who were rioting and blocking traffic when prop 8 passed last year. Instead of having people back you're inquiry with support, you'll instead lose support from the vast number of individuals you're now being annoying to.

    Besides, what do you expect to happen if they do find out he isn't a natural born citizen of the USA? That they'll go kick him out of office right away? Then we'll have Biden? Do you really think thats a better option? They aren't going to go pick Sarah Palin up ASAP and fly her to the white house, so don't have your hopes up for that.

    My best advice to the whiners, start getting more involved in your local and state governments, and help us get better candidates for 2012 and 2016 elections who will address maybe... some of the issues brought up on this site?

    5 years ago
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  230. lucid yer a commie

    i aint no dam whiner i as american as it is and rush limbough and i beleve that he aint no american his name is barak HUSSIEN obamathe last hussiene i new was one of the leeders of el quita in the irak i saw on fox that he was hanged for terorism and bush made all that hapen and i think bush shuld come back to the white house and go after that terorist hussiene

    5 years ago
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  231. trenity85, please stop your personal attacks and offensively stereotypical characterizations.

    5 years ago
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  232. jwel america is a free country and the republican party has foght for my rite to free speech when will you reelize that obama is not american he was born somewere around afginistan and iran why else wuld obamer go to the middle east this week because he knows that he needs to close loose ends because like i sayed he aint no damn american and im lettin my voice be herd

    cheney/palin 2009

    5 years ago
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  233. longshot9999

    The birth certificate issue is important to 99% of Americans, your not in that 99%

    5 years ago
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  234. I hope we can survive what this man is doing to our country... :(

    5 years ago
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  235. "...Your whole group currupting this site with this type of attack is pathetic..." And what group is that sir? Concerned taxpaying Americans? I understand you would like for us to shut up and give the king his ransom, but we were supposed to be a nation never to have a king. This issue is not going away.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98787

    5 years ago
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  236. What 0bama needs to do to prove he is eligible:

    1) Release the long form, vault copy of his birth certificate.

    2) Release all college records to the public.

    3) Show he has never been a citizen of Indonesia - as school records there show.

    4) Tell us what passport he used to travel to Pakistan in the early 80's - when travel to Pakistan (or Pokeestan according to Zero) was restricted for US citizens.

    Until then I will believe he is an usurper who needs to be removed from office and tried for his crimes against the country.

    5 years ago
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  237. Obama may be a citizen but he is NOT a natural born citizen and for the singular office of the President under our Constitution the person in that office must be more than just an American citizen. He must be a natural born citizen to constitutional standards.

    Also, the COLB digital image he has produced does not even prove he was born in Hawaii. Can you think of any official office in government where a digital image on the internet is all you have to show to prove you are a even an ordinary citizen, let alone a Natural Born Citizen to Constitutional standards.

    You are intellectually dishonest. Obama has not produced COLB to any controlling legal authority or independent document examiner to determine its validity. All his has shown to anyone outside his campaign and his Annenberg Foundation (which Obama chaired) controlled FactCheck website is a digital image of an alleged document. Do you really believe that a digital image is all that is necessary to prove one's constitutional eligibility for any federal office in the land? Have you ever heard of PhotoShop and what can be done with a digital image and computer generated forms using digital laser printers? We the People want to see and have experts examine the underlying printed paper document used to make that image AND we also want to see the yet unseen long-form, original birth certificate still in the vaults in HI to see the name of the attending doctor and hospital where he was born and other contemporaneous non-family witnesses to the birth, if there are any!

    Here is one expert's examination report of that digital image COLB that you place the entire safety of our country on and the future liberty of all of us on. Obama must prove he is eligible under Article II to constitutional standards, not FactCheck.org and Snopes.com website O-Bot standards.

    See this report on the forgery of the COLB image on the internet shown by Obama's campaign and Snopes and FactCheck:

    http://polarik.blogtownhall.com/2009/05/04/why_obama_will_never_show_his_birth_certificate.thtml

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  238. ILLEGITIMATE President gives way to an illegitimate 1st wife that ultimately leads to illegitimate 1st children.

    When you go down Barry, you are gonna emotionally destroy your kids. Nice work...hope you satisfied your narcissistic urge to ruin a country that ultimately will ruin your children's lives...forever.

    5 years ago
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  239. I can guess it's a practice (I almost called it a 'prick-tice,' which isn't far-off) of 'profitable, legalistic muckraking;' if someone succeeds without sticking by EVERY INSIGNIFICANT LITTLE RULE, the 'prince of this world' urges nature to jump on the 'rule-breaker' and CRU-CI-FY HIM!

    I might link to my blog (which probably goes into detail on a personal example), but that might BREAK an INSIGNIFICANT LITTLE RULE;-)

    5 years ago
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  240. BHO has said his father was from kenya. His father was not a US Citizen. BHO is not, was not, and never can be a "natural born citizen". He is not constitutionally qualified. The DNC produced a candidate who is not qualified to be president.

    The DNC needs to be sued also!!!!

    5 years ago
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  241. sreinke, May I ask, once again - what is your objective with this inquisition?

    5 years ago
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  242. simple solution - stop trying to HIDE the ANSWERS.

    just provide the OPEN INFORMATION.

    why the Lawyers ? Why the Hide ??

    5 years ago
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  243. The long certificate is very important because if Obama is not a natural born citizen all that he has signed is null and void.The constitution exists to protect people from imposters and to protect the citizens right.This administration is trying to distract people with the economy and other things.When you employ a person you ask them for their papers.Obama is employed by we the people.Where are your papers ?

    5 years ago
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  244. The American people will never rise up or unit under anyone until they are removed from their comfort zones. To put it plainly, American’s do not give a damn unless it concerns them directly or impacts them directly. We have become a very selfish and self centered society, deeply involved in our own decadence. We think our thoughts and opinions do not matter in the great scheme of things. We are tiny and insignificant. We let our insecurities about ourselves cloud our judgments to the point that we follow blindly any politician that speaks of ever growing military needs. As long as other people fight my wars and it does not directly affect my family, who cares.

    And then there is Television, our soothsayer, our happy box, our best friend and advisor. Television does not represent truth; it represents an amusement park, a circus, a carnival, stage actors, football players, it is the boredom killing business. Do not be tempted to believe the illusions television spins, the altered realities presented by boardroom executives. People worship television in that they emulate what they see, eat what they are told to eat, ware the clothing they are told to ware, and believe the political beliefs they are inundated with. Television is the conduit of mass mind reprogramming.

    The question now is why are we all so easy to manipulate by our love of self and television? It is because we are all being chemically manipulated to be passive and unquestioning of authority via fluoridation of our drinking water and the poisons in our food, such as aspartame, monosodium glutamate, and high fructose corn syrup. And when these substances make us sick in the long run, we face that situation alone, because the insurance industry cuts your coverage as soon as it determines your to big of a loss statement. So if you wish to pretend to care, you can always look up a few of my ideas by clicking my name or the links below. Have a nice fluoridated day.

    Ban Fluoride in Public Drinking Water and Beverages. Link: http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/4177-4049

    Ban Aspartame. Link: http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/4176-4049

    Ban Monosodium Glutamate. Link: http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/4175-4049

    Ban High Fructose Corn Syrup. Link: http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/4173-4049

    Free Media Election Time. Link: http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/4136-4049

    5 years ago
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  245. zauberer44, We have a trojan horse in the white house. We must preserve this nation from a foreign infiltrator.

    5 years ago
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  246. I fail to see how this is an idea intended to improve the government.

    5 years ago
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  247. It's really a shame that such a great idea as this dialog system is being ruined by a bunch of trolls. One entry per idea. Why is this concept so difficult to grasp? When you flood the system with hundreds of duplicate entries, you not only ruin the dialog system but you make everyone reading it hostile to your cause. Whether or not your cause had any merit no longer matters, as your actions have shown you to be the sort of people whose ideas aren't worth considering.

    This is why we can't have nice things.

    5 years ago
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  248. I am amazed at how threatened the liberals are by this issue... If they're confident that he's a citizen, then there is nothing for them to worry about. If they KNOW he's not a citizen and are trying to hide it- God help them...

    5 years ago
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  249. When I was a child, and I acted like a spoiled 5 year old and I whined and stamped my feet and DEMANDED attention because I didn’t get my way…my parents sent me to my room. And I’d holler and wail and stamp my feet until I realized that I would not be invited back to participate with the adults and have my voice heard until I changed my behavior and quit acting like an ass.

    I could stamp my feet all I wanted, and nobody cared…because I was acting like a rotten little creep and no one wanted me around. When I got tired of being excluded from adult conversation I told my parents I was sorry and that I was ready to be a part of the discussion again.

    We would talk and I would express my needs and they would listen. Sometimes I would get the things I’d ask for and sometimes they would explain to me why I wasn’t going to get things the way I wanted them, but they would be respectful and consider my wants.

    It’s time for “birther” conservatives to be sent to their room and ignored. To be left out of the conversation by the adults until they are willing to quit making demands and screaming and stomping their feet…to be sent to their rooms until they are willing to work WITH their family members to make a pleasant, peaceful and respectful home for all of us…instead of dominating the environment with selfish, childish pettiness.

    5 years ago
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  250. webbcattt, I agree with some of what you said. However, "we can't have nice things" because the average person cannot afford them due to nearly half of their income going to taxes of one form or another.

    5 years ago
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  251. I simply can't understand why you people won't give up.

    Obama's birth certificate has already been released. Just because YOU can't grasp the fact that it's the real thing, doesn't make it a fake.

    When you lose your original birth certificate, or need a copy for whatever reason - they don't give you a copy of the original document. You get a NEW certificate in whatever the current design for your state is at that time.

    Look at the bottom of the photograph of the document Obama presented as his birth certificate. Notice it says "this document is prima facie evidence in any court hearing". It also says the place of birth is Honolulu.

    Just because it isn't the "original", doesn't make it a fake. Just because you wish he was ineligible, doesn't make it so.

    5 years ago
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  252. dmwilliams80,

    You really need to educate yourself by actually reading some of the post.

    You look like a fool posting such ignorance!

    5 years ago
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  253. Zero room for name calling. People who write anything on these blogs feel they are right and want to be heard. By debasing an argument with name calling you bring down the intellectual level of this entire site. I am not an administrator.

    5 years ago
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  254. Why didn't Obama have to prove he's a natural born citizen the way McCain did?

    Because Obama was born in Hawaii, just like his birth certificate says.

    Long form, short form, doesn't matter.

    Again, the short form says it is "prima facie evidence in a court of law". And you wonder why the court cases are being thrown out?

    HA!

    5 years ago
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  255. No amount of logic or persuasion will turn the disciples of Obama from the dark side.

    The best we can hope from them or their messiah is for them to come to the realization that this issue will continue to gain momentum until they either produce the documentation being asked for and prove us wrong, or SCOTUS rules on the merits of the case (which would require a discovery process), along with defining what is meant by the term "natural born citizen".

    We will NOT "go gentle into that good night".

    5 years ago
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  256. Think of this as our "virtual" picket line.

    5 years ago
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  257. This lawsuit will reach SCOTUS and be heard on the merits. It was brought when Obama was no longer a candidate but a Federal official. It asks for the Supreme Court to define Natural Born Citizen as one of its goals. That and it is a suit against Congress for failure to do its duty under the Constitution and illegal activities during the Joint Session.

    Kerchner et al v Obama & Congress et al:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/11317148/

    One page summary of the case:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/16055983/

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  258. the reason it is so important is that if we have an inelegible man in the

    white house then we have a severe constitutional crisis---how would we deal with it how could we make it right without ignoring our constitution!!!

    5 years ago
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  259. The only way to correct the error, or crime, which really is what it is, would be to remove Obama from office. It would be a shame to have Biden as president, but he couldn't possibly dammage the country more than Obama already has, and we must observe the rule of law. Particularly when it is a root Constitutional issue. There is no higher law, nor a higher crime than conspiring to obfuscate the Constituion in direct contravention of the oath of office. If Obama cannot produce a verifyable birth certificate at this point, he is guilty of high treason.

    5 years ago
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  260. Where were you when Bush Jr. started his campaign against the constitution? Real hypocritical of you to only claim that Democratic Presidents are the only ones that have to be impeached. You did impeach Clinton for having sex, which is not a crime. Now I will not defend Obama, I did vote for him, but when he bailed out the fraudsters on Wall Street, I lost all respect for him. He stands alone. Just drives me crazy to think that the man Bush Jr. that is responsible for the entire mess that America is in, gets a free pass. Until this country goes back and indicts the Bush administration for everything it did, this country will remain messed up beyond repair.

    Take a moment and click on the two following links:

    Thirty-Five Articles of Impeachment of Bush & Chaney, Why Were They Ignored? Link: http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/6303-4049

    New 9/11 Convention. Link: http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/6199-4049

    5 years ago
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  261. It's important because all those ideas of yours "helping homeless" etc, will have ZERO meaning by the time this Muslim born illegitimate man finishes selling our nation off to the Muslims, as he is DOING right now!

    And by the way, how come all you libbies aren't up in arms about Obama's admin trying to stop the families of 911 from suing Saudi Arabia and its oil kings? If the Bush admin had done this, you'd be flooding every media outlet with your conspiracies of republicans and the oil tycoons running the world for their own personal benefit? Kind of two faced there aren't ya'?

    Well you see it only shows us how you really have no interest in truth for your nation or its people's sake, in that or any issue, you're just determined to get perverted people in office at any cost and those who love God out!

    I want to see the liberals "PROVE" how much they "LOVE" their fellow American, and their nation, and start screaming AT OBAMA today, to let the AMERICAN VICTIMS FAMILIES SUE SAUDI ARABIA and oil Kings, and tell him, since he's going to the court house to help them, he may as well bring along his real birth certificate.

    Otherwise, we must assume, Obama is on this HUGE oil conspiracy too!

    5 years ago
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  262. Liberals who fell all over themselves are now getting a taste of early, though open support by Obama for Sharia law. All those gays and women liberers who will be on the tip of the Sharia sword got a sharp slap in the face from their messiah:

    "...Likewise, it is important for Western countries to avoid impeding Muslim citizens from practicing religion as they see fit - for instance, by dictating what clothes a Muslim woman should wear. We cannot disguise hostility towards any religion behind the pretence of liberalism..." ~BHO (verbatim)

    Muslim born and raised, and not straying far from the Islamic tree.

    5 years ago
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  263. This same argument would be in full effect if McCain were president. People would be questioning his citizenship. The only difference is that McCain would release and prove it. Done deal. I don't understand why anyone is supporting a president keeping quiet about public documents for the highest office in the world. It's not personal, it's a matter of public safety. What is interesting is the fact that Obama will not release these records and coincidentally is passing an exorbitant amount of bills that defy the Constitution and shaming the American people he swore to defend to appease the Muslim world. Something doesn't add up. Wake up people! I'm not condemning Liberals or democrats, I'm asking EVERYONE to question the motives.

    Educate yourself, not by blind hate of left or right, but of knowledge of right or wrong.

    rawamerica.org

    5 years ago
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  264. "The only difference is that McCain would release and prove it."

    Except he didn't. Nor did he validate similar requests for his medical records.

    5 years ago
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  265. What on earth does Saudi Arabia have to do with 9/11? Why would victims of 9/11 sue Saudi oil moguls?

    It was Bush who flew Bin Laden's family out of the US after 9/11 (yes, they were living here).

    Doesn't anyone remember the Patriot Act? Possibly the largest legislative F U to the Constitution that our nation has ever seen?

    And where do you get off demanding to see someone's personal documents, anyway? Like I've said before, the Obama COLB IS prima facie evidence in any court hearing (says so right at the bottom of the document), so even if this frivolous pursuit ends up in SCOTUS - that COLB is going to serve as it's ticket to immediate dismissal.

    This whole ridiculous mess started because Obama's father is Muslim. Every time a new president is elected the nuts come out of the woodwork and proclaim him the "antichrist". This is just more of the same madness, but the fact that his father is Muslim is just too much for people to handle.

    It's all based on hatred for Muslims, plain and simple.

    5 years ago
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  266. @ dmwilliams80

    Bravo, cheers.

    If you want to pick apart Obama, it is much easier to point to the fact that he bailed out a fraudulent Wall Street all under the guiess of saving Main Street, to the tune of $12 trillion dollars. This is something to get angry about. The nay sayers will say, what Wall Street did was perfectly legal, and they would be correct. The banker takeover of our country started with two bills. It was 106th congress who passed S. 900 Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act of 1999, that allowed banking institutions to create, buy, and sell securities. This bill gutted the depression era protection act, Glass-Steagall Banking Act of 1933. Then to add insult to injury, congress in a twenty-five bill war appropriations bill passed H.R. 4577: Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2001, which contained H.R. 4541: Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000. This bill legalized credit-default swaps (CDS). This bill also made legal derivatives, which is a form of gambling upon assets that are not owned by the better. Derivatives can be hedged, which is likened to placing a side bet on your bet.

    So next time you point a finger to who destroyed the United States economy you can sight these two bills and firmly say, it was our congress under Bush Jr.

    Here ends the lecture.

    5 years ago
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  267. Article two grandfathers in anyone who was a citizen (natural or otherwise) at the founding of the Country. After that date, anyone qualifying as POTUS must be a "natural born Citizen" of the United States. The definition of of a natural born citizen has been argued at length and is now well defined as someone born in one of the fifty states, or born under one of a few narrowly defined exceptions, such as children born to U.S. military parents serving outside the U.S., as in the case of John McCain, who had no problem showing his birth certificate.

    Why do liberals always have to revert back to, "But Tommy did it too" mentality? Bush was no fiscal conservative, and should take the full brunt of his own mistakes, but that has nothing to do with the fact that Obama is in office now, he is un-vetted, and he is running the largest crime syndicate in the history of the world without restraint, running rough shod over the Constitution in the process.

    I am glad Bush is gone, but I want Obama out of the white house before we end up over the edge, and into the abyss of no return. I want my America back, and that reaches somewhere beyond the new world order speech of Bush 41. We have had few friends in Washington for the past several decades, but no past president is driving the bus now, so if we are going to avoid riding into the economic abyss, lets get rid of the Marxist now at the wheel, and then work on the wrecking crew we call Congress who are cheering him on.

    Barack Obama is the least "transparent" president in the history of the country. Where is the birth certificate Mr. Obama? The world is waiting.

    5 years ago
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  268. THIS IS NOT GOING AWAY NO MATTER NOW MANY TIMES YOU DELETE POSTS AND IDEAS.

    5 years ago
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  269. All this will stop if BHO would just release the long form BC.

    5 years ago
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  270. What is more important that knowing you are being led by a legitimate Commander in Cheif--President? All the other issues he touches and signs into law will be negated if he is not. All those other issues are important, but prove the decision maker affecting the lives of all Americans is legit. This is not asking too much.

    5 years ago
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  271. who cares, americans are more important. i don't care about homeless or anything else its your racist thing. the constitution saying you have to be american to be president, is a good idea. only if power got turned off would it be a imnportant idea, but you still don't forget about the birth certificate, the most important issue is the birth certificate, but you don't say that you say, wah wah wah,

    kenyan,.

    5 years ago
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  272. Man this got spammed right up to the top. What a disaster. Doesn't think site check IP's?

    5 years ago
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  273. Honolulu Star-Bulletin, June 6, 2009

    Question: What is the state's policy for issuing a "Certification of Live Birth" versus a "Certificate of Live Birth"? My first, second and fourth children received certificates, but my third and fifth children received certifications. Why the difference? The certificate contains more information, such as the name of hospital, certifier's name and title; attendant's name and title, etc. The certification has only the child's name, date and time of birth, sex, city/island/county of birth, mother's maiden name, mother's race, father's name and father's race. Why doesn't the state just issue certificates? When did it stop issuing certificates? Is it possible to obtain certificates for my third and fifth children?

    Answer: No, you can't obtain a "certificate of live birth" anymore.

    The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

    The department only issues "certifications" of live births, and that is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii, she said.

    And, it's only available in electronic form.

    Okubo explained that the Health Department went paperless in 2001.

    "At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting," she said.

    Information about births is transferred electronically from hospitals to the department.

    "The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests," Okubo said.

    Asked for more information about the short-form versus long-form birth documents, Okubo said the Health Department "does not have a short-form or long-form certificate."

    "The birth certificate form has been modified over the years and decades to conform to national standards and models," she said.

    Okubo also emphasized the certification form "contains all the information needed by all federal government agencies for transactions requiring a birth certificate."

    She added that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements."

    The issue of what constitutes an official Hawaii birth certificate received national attention during last year's presidential campaign. Those who doubted Barack Obama's American citizenship called the copy of the Hawaii birth document posted on his campaign Web site a fake.

    Asked about that document, Okubo said, "This is the same certified copy everyone receives when they request a birth certificate."

    http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html

    5 years ago
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  274. The mainstream media ran cover for Obama effectivly putting him in office with the public knowing very little of him, and most of what they did know was a staged presentation. The Star Bulletin is simply continuing the charade. The Star article is the equivelent of 60's era commercials claiming "More Doctors Smoke Camels Than Any Other Cigarette." A true, though trick, statement that led many to believe Camels were healthy.

    Obama was born in late 1961, decades before HI went paperless. With Obama's acquiring passports, college entance, his mother applying for welfare, and a range of other activities, he would have acquired one or more certified hardcopies of the BE long before HI went paperless. Regardless of that, the digital facscimile posted on the smear website by was a forgery. Why? Why post a forgery if you have an autnentic birth certificate?

    Because the authentic birth certificate bears information you want to hide presumably.

    Neither Camels nor Obama are good for our health. The unanswered question remains, "where is the birth certificate?"

    5 years ago
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  275. A copy is needed per Hawaiian law for the Homeland program. They do not accept certifications for that program. I think this newspaper author skimmed over and omitted some facts. Also, copies of paper records can still be obtained of the original documents via court order, if the CERT form is questioned legally, which Obama is fighting. The CERT form is prima facie evidence, not conclusive evidence, and is only good in court if it's validity is not questioned.

    Also, Obama himself wrote in in his book, "Dreams from My Father" that he had in his possession in the 80s copy of his Birth Certificate which he obtained about the time his father died in Kenya. He considered it one of his prized possessions. Why can't he produce a certified copy of that one for starters? Then he could stop fighting the lawsuits demanding a court ordered copy be obtained from the Hawaiian vaults. And he could stop fighting the lawsuits trying to get copies of his application to Occidental College and his financial assistance application there. Did he apply for financial aide there as a foreign born student using a Kenyan BC or Indonesian passport, or both, as evidence for obtaining that aide. Why is Obama hiding all his early life birth, education, and travel records prior to becoming a U.S. Senator.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  276. Of course THIS is the most important issue.

    Any solutions to any of the many problems that this nation has must be addressed by a lawful president. If this basic requirement is not met, even the best of solutions will be (are) null & void, because the person (Obama) claiming the office of President has no authority to implement anything.

    5 years ago
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  277. brianp, proxys are hard, amirite?

    5 years ago
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  278. Interesting how this is still the most popular topic... Obama why don't you respond? Why don't you release all your records and prove us wrong? Obviously because you can't!!!

    5 years ago
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  279. Is this issue more important than coming up with new ideas on how to house the homeless, develop energy independence, protect our borders from terrorists, provide jobs for unemployed workers, etc, etc...? I think whoever is behind this campaign has expressed their only idea sufficiently for the rest of us to know it's important to them. Now if they only had one or two new solutions for more important problems....

    Yes it is as important as all those other things.Especially since it is part of all these other problems.Illegals(obama is probably one and the traitors who want a one world government and no border know it)

    He is a terrorit wanting to destroy the constitution and the economy.Heck I dont like bush but Obunny has tripled the dept in 100 days.Oh ya he is working against us and for our enemies.The dream act will take more jobs from Americans and hand them to illegals.Show the proof you are legal and a citizen let alone natural born.You know like the rest of us have to.Even the shills who parrot bull like its breathing.

    5 years ago
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  280. Just a thought - considering that he is stepping on the toes of the Financial Industry, the Insurance Industry, and the Pharmaceutical Industry - that if there was anything to this stupid idea - they wouldn't have found and used it to shut him up? Really - I think they would have done this a long time ago - but then what would you do with your time besides obsessing on some stupid idea because you don't like who won. Wow ... this is just disheartening to see that stupidity has risen to the top ... it shouldn't though really.

    5 years ago
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  281. A GEM FROM JOSEPH LYLES

    You love your country so much . . .

    You doubled the debt your country owes to wealthy bond holders and foreigners.

    You mortgaged the future of all our children and grandchildren to potential enemies like Communist China.

    You allowed good American manufacturing jobs to be outsourced to third world cheap labor cesspools.

    You think American workers ought to have the same "generous" wages, benefits, and working conditions as those furnished third world workers by you corporate cronies.

    Allowed unregulated speculators -- starting with Ken Lay and Enron -- to ruthlessly gouge American energy consumers, crippling our economy in the process.

    Allowed unregulated speculators in the mortgage market to bankrupt our financial system, causing millions of foreclosures.

    Bailed out the lenders who lost money in the mortgage crisis, then you refused any such assistance to the ordinary American consumers wiped out by this disaster.

    Allowed American corporations to escape Federal taxes by hiding their money in places like the Cayman Islands. We're still waiting for that wealth to "trickle back" to America.

    Created the most expensive health system in the world -- paid for by the skyrocketing insurance premiums of middle class Americans.

    Allowed 47 million people -- in a country with the most expensive healthcare system in the world -- to do without adequate healthcare.

    Allowed life expectancy in the US to drop to 42nd in the world -- having the world's most expensive healthcare system.

    Hired a "horse lawyer" to manage the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the very agency that would respond to a "terrorist attack."

    Ate birthday cake while Hurricane Katrina destroyed New Orleans -- after the National Hurricane Center forecast the disaster at least 48 hours in advance.

    When presented with a report, on August 6, 2001 entitled "Al Qaeda Determined To Attack Inside The United States," you ignored the warning and allowed bin Ladin to attack inside the United States.

    Having done nothing to prevent an attack about which you were warned 35 days earlier, you allowed the mastermind of the attack to escape justice -- to this day.

    Having allowed the mastermind of that attack to escape justice, you set up a concentration camp at Guantanamo Bay, and sought to deny the inmates there of even the most basic due process of law.

    You have supported the use of torture by both American and foreign governments against such heinous criminals as Osama bin Ladin's driver. Bin Ladin himself, remains at large.

    Having done nothing to prevent an attack about which you were warned 35 days earlier, you immediately started using that attack to justify war on a country that had nothing to do with the attack.

    Having done nothing to prevent an attack about which you were warned 35 days earlier, you used the specter of an attack using chemical, biological, and even nuclear weapons, to win public support for a needless war that has killed over 4000 American soldiers. [We won't bother discussing the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed in that war. You don't care about them.]

    Having successfully lied to Americans about a non-existent threat of weapons of mass destruction, and furthermore, having false suggested a connection between Iraq and the terrorist attack -- the one you were warned about 35 days before it happened . . . you ignored American generals who said you would need a minimum of 500,000 troops to carry out a successful post-invasion occupation of that country.

    Instead, you sent in Paul Bremer to fire a half million employees of the Iraqi government -- driving them into the ranks of the insurgency.

    You are utterly unwilling to pay the taxes necessary to finance that misbegotten and mismanaged war.

    You are utterly unwilling to make ANY sacrifice in support of either the war in Iraq or the so-called "war on terror."

    You opposed giving veterans of the present "war" GI Bill benefits those we gave veterans of World War II.

    While appearing to be utterly unconcerned about a trillion dollar war based on propaganda and deception, utterly unconcerned about 400 billion dollars in interest payments on the national debt, utterly unconcerned about record profits earned by American oil companies, utterly unconcerned about skyrocketing health insurance premiums, you are outraged -- outraged -- whenever you hear that some brown baby in an American inner city got a milk bottle on your dime.

    You would force millions of American women to have unwanted children . . .

    . . . then howl to heavens when your tax money is used provide those same unwanted children with basic nutrition and healthcare.

    Did I mention that you are utterly unconcerned about the trillion dollars we've wasted in Iraq or the 400 billion dollars we spend in interest payments on the national debt?

    You'll put up with just about any waste of money, as long as we're not feeding or housing anyone with it.

    Awarded tax cuts to the richest Americans, allowed corporations to outsource jobs to the third world, sent America's sons to die in Iraq, indebted America's children and grandchildren, and then -- get this -- positioned yourselves as "champions of ordinary people."

    Having bankrupted the country, destroyed it's manufacturing base, shamed the country with the use of torture and our very own version of an American Gulag, cut taxes on the richest Americans, and supervised the most grossly unequal distribution of wealth in American history, you are asking Americans to support four more years of your misrule, using lies, smears, and vacuous symbolism and imagery.

    Indeed, you are fighting like caged animals to win, win, win at any cost -- regardless of how sorry your record has been for the past 8 years.

    Having bankrupted the country, destroyed it's manufacturing base, shamed the country with the use of torture and our very own version of an American Gulag, cut taxes on the richest Americans, and supervised the most grossly unequal distribution of wealth in American history -- and now fighting like caged animals to win another term in the White House to CONTINUE this abuse of the American people -- you now have the nerve to challenge the patriotism of your opponents in this election.

    All I can say is that "patriotism is as patriotism does." If you do indeed love America -- which keep telling us -- well, I have to wonder how much more of your "love" America can stand.

    5 years ago
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  282. mccain and obama where both foreign. you can't be president unless your american.

    your communism wants to try to destroy america.

    kenyan.

    5 years ago
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  283. whether he posts a fake birth cert or a real one, it's not gonna change a damn thing for better or worse so stfu and move on.

    5 years ago
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  284. Federal court in five page order grants Obama & Congress more time to respond but is taking this case very seriously.

    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/06/activity-in-kerchner-v-obama-congress.html

    http://www.thebirthers.org

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  285. TO: longshot999; you ask "Is this issue more important than coming up with new ideas on how to house the homeless" etc., I feel it is THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE facing this country. Right now this country is at a cross road, do we go left, straight ahead, for turn right. The fact that the man in the White House has refused all the request to provide his records, we requested by the People (who he works for) show me has has no concern for the Consitution (and he use to teach law) this scare the hell out of me, so yes I want to see if he is in fact legal.

    5 years ago
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  286. Birthers are sheep, gullible fools, easily swayed by lies and misinformation about someone they hate.

    Obama asked for a copy of his birth certificate. Hawaii issued him what they issue everybody who asks for a copy of their birth certificate, the Certification of Live Birth. He displayed it on the internet, just so everyone could see it. What he displayed contains all of the information necessary to prove citizenship, including that he was born in Honolulu.

    The Certification of Live Birth is not an original document, so it wouldn't have been issued to anybody when they were born, so this garbage about it being issued to anybody, regardless of where they were born is just that, garbage. It's an extract from the State of Hawaii database of all births in the state. If it's printed on the right paper and has the right signature and raised seal, it IS a birth certificate, for all official purposes.

    So why don't you all crawl back under your rocks, and quit barfing all over this place. Unless you come up with some actual facts or evidence, that is.

    5 years ago
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  287. According to another poster: "In May of 1919, at Dusseldorf, Germany, the Allied Forces obtained a copy of some of the "Communist Rules for Revolution." Nearly 50 years later, the Reds are still following these rules.

    I'd like to point out three of those rules:

    2. Divide the people into hostile groups by constantly harping on controversial matters of no importance.

    3. Destroy the people's faith in their natural leaders by holding the latter up to contempt, ridicule, and obloquy (verbal abuse of a person or a thing).

    7. By spacious [sic] argument, cause the breakdown of the old moral virtues; honesty, sobriety, continence, faith in the pledged word and ruggedness.

    Yes, people, birthers are Commie dupes, enemies of all that is good and right and pure.

    5 years ago
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  288. TO MY PATRIOTIC FRIENDS: First, I appreciate your efforts on the birth certificate issue- I think it's incredibly important and we don't need a reason to argue the truth. The laws are written in such a way that we have a right to ask and if our laws aren't being inforced (border security, proper candidate vetting, etc...) then we have a responsibility as citizens. The circumstantial evidence, such as the legal fees and efforts that BHO continues to use to hide the truth only go to prove our point further. Second, there's alot of name calling and slanderous commentary- I'd like to plea that you please take the high ground here. If you'll recall, we are the ones fighting against immorality and amorality and for conservative principles, such as: truth, honesty, liberty and the American Way, which Chuck Schumer proudly declared are dead. Keep up the good fight.

    5 years ago
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  289. There is a common thread of rebuke method by liberals. If confronted with solid argument or facts, they spew hate and illogical nasty argument. Look at the recent Sarah Palin and her daughter's attacks. Imagine had Rush or some other liberal made a sexist comment about Obama's wife and/or daughters. There would be a firestorm, and racist accusations. Point being, there is very good reason to address this birth certificate issue, the republic cannot be ruled by an imposter based on a lie, it rots the very fabric the country is founded upon. Ignore the lefty loon attackers, they rarely have a logical or truthful argument, they will spit on you if they cannot win with words- every time. Take the high road, we are the better people for it. Demand this "citizen imposter" provide real proof of citizenship. Why on earth would anybody go to such lengths to hide his birth and college info if there weren't something to hide? Simple logic with a simple conclusion.

    5 years ago
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  290. kichman, why would someone block hostile attempts to view one's personal information?

    Post your grades, birth certificate, and other personal information so I can prove you have a right to make these accusations and I'll stand behind your cause. How else can I know you are truly a US citizen with a right to petition our legal system?

    Otherwise, we've heard all these arguments before.

    Nasty and illogical enough for ya?

    5 years ago
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  291. Yes zauberer on both counts. Illogical and nasty, typical of a liberal. Here is why.

    Obama is not a god, he is a public servant. As such, his qualifications are open for review. Our corrupt Congress should have done its work in this regard, however it is our duty as citizens to uphold the constitution of this republic. His records are to be open to inspection and review. Is he a god? He certainly thinks so, and so do many of you kool-aid drinkers, but like all of us, there are criteria to be met, to hold any public, and many private positions. True citizenship is one of them, for office of president. Like our Hollywood stars, a person in the public eye has less expectation of personal privacy. Otherwize the paparazzi would be out of business. Not my opinion, but simple fact (go ahead and start spitting again, we are all used to it...)

    Is that logical enough for you? Need I break it down to see through your kool-aid induced haze?

    5 years ago
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  292. Foul!

    Make sure you hear about Sheppard Smith's recent rantings on Fox News.

    5 years ago
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  293. Sheppard Smith is permitted his own opinion. Whether it is right or wrong, whether he has done his homework or not. Clearly he has not done his homework, but I won't personally attack him for his opinion, or even make sexual rape jokes about his children. We conservatives generally take the high road. But let's not make it about an "us against them thing". That's what this administration wants. What the last administration depended on. Keep the people fighting amongst themselves, so they continue to ignore the man behind the curtain. I wasn't enamored with the last president either. Many of us weren't. Just because many of us are for conservative principles and common sense and decency, doesn't mean we are necessarily republicans. Can't we all just find common ground, use common sense, and see this government is out of control? How many unconstitutional "czars" answering only to the president do we need? When will enough be enough for people already, before they stop infighting to see the real threat to this republic?????

    5 years ago
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  294. You misunderstood me. Please make sure you listen to what Fox's Shep Smith said. Could it be that the birth certificate issue has been tossed out there for discussion? Finally?

    5 years ago
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  295. I love to hear you sing this song of duty to the constitution and the republic when it is convenient for your personal interests. Where has this incendiary recursive action been for the past decade, when it was needed most? Why only now have you found your voice for this one particular issue? Is Barack Obama the first president you've seen to side-step the constitution?

    If Obama is a God, it is your worshiping of a false idol that has given him that status. Your accusations, jealousy, hatred, and rage are what immortalizes him as a figure larger than life - not the blind testament of his flock. What gave Christ his monumental status? Was it his small band of followers spreading good will one lost soul at a time, or was it the inspiring story of conflict against a fledgling and abusive state that spread his fame? Obama couldn't have achieved this by himself - there are two sides to a coin and your irrelevant opposition willfully gives him his credibility. Accept responsibility for your role. By encouraging this conspiracy - YOU lend to the facade; not his incorrigible supporters. You want him to look, act, and behave like a normal man? Then treat him like one and call out his policies and engage in a civil debate, rather than personally demonizing him.

    If you want to waste your breath in pursuit of an unrealistic and unattainable goal, then by all means do it; it is a free country - just realize you give away all of your will to power of your own accord by refusing to stand up for other righteous and effectual arguments grounded in reality. While you're sitting here crying foul about a birth certificate - your nemesis is petitioning the world on your behalf, solidifying his stranglehold on our country, ruining your good name, and destroying what little democracy we have left.

    Your distraction undermines your own argument and destroys your ability to inspire meaningful accountability. Do you really think you are going to win based on this argument? Tell me, you guys have been at this for weeks if not months - what even semi-credible news agency has picked this up? What "buzz" is happening on the street? And Why aren't you vehemently criticizing his continuation of GWB's terrible policies, complete disregard for campaign promises, or utter disrespect for the spirit of competitive business? It doesn't make strategic sense. You're right that this administration wants us divided - so if you recognize that, why do you continually pursue the delusion?

    The only effective way to organize and inform is to let his actions speak for themselves, and they are. Remember there are many more pieces to this puzzle than this one particular individual and our country is very upset - if disenfranchised. No amount of personal accusations will clear the veil and afford us the opportunity of foresight to take corrective action - We didn't learn our lesson with Bush and it is doubtful that we will learn it now.

    This is why these so-called democrats are in power - because you want to blow a bunch of hot air rather than take prudent judicious action. It makes you look good and you get to take the self-righteous moral high road without having to sacrifice anything and after you've seen everyone else's cards. It's easy to pass judgement and criticize when you don't have any skin in the game.

    Oh, and one more thing. Don't assume even for a second that just because I think this is an absurd argument which has absolutely no chance of success that I am a liberal or one of your fellow "Kool-aid drinkers."

    5 years ago
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  296. Educational information on the eligibility issue and The Birthers:

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  297. kichman,

    Considering that the birthers have not presented ANY "solid argument or facts", and when presented with"a logical or truthful argument" all they do is whine "show us the BC", what's left, except to accurately describe them as whiny babies and loons.

    In order to "win with words", your opponent has to either be willing to listen to facts and truth, or be extremely gullible. The latter is why WND can feed you any lie and you lap it up. And why "liberals" (more evidence of black and white thinking) get frustrated and call you names.

    BTW, you're pretty good with the namecalling yourself. Does that mean you're a liberal?

    blackmonrikker described you and your calim of namecalling best:

    That's usually what happens when the same question gets asked over and over and over after a reasonable answer has already been supplied.

    Q: "Say, buddy, what color is the sky?

    A: "Blue"

    Q: "Yeh, but what's the REAL color?"

    A: "Blue"

    Q: "That's what Obama would have you BELIEVE. What's the REAL color?"

    A: "Look up. It's BLUE."

    Q: "He's paid MILLIONS to get you to believe that. But think about it: Why would he pay that much IF the sky is SUPPOSED to be Yellow? Hmmmmmmmm?"

    A: "Idiot."

    Q: "You must be a liberal. (Looking elsewhere) Hey, Buddy!! What color is the sky?"

    5 years ago
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  298. ramjet767,

    "Educational information on the eligibility issue and The Birthers:

    http://www.thebirthers.org/"

    Don't you mean another website full of misinformation and partisan lies?

    5 years ago
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  299. shane,

    Sorry, but the truth is already out there. You just don't want to believe it. Promoting lies and misinformation is not arguing the truth.

    5 years ago
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  300. Twitchy

    Maybe you should try to disprove the true FACTS that are presented instead of using the talking points of the DNC. The following are some FACTS about our OPEN and TRANSPARENT president. I believe the term "OPAQUE and INVISIBLE" to the public would be more appropriate.

    This is also posted at http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?page_id=6192

    Obama’s Sealed Background Documentation

    This data originally garnered from TheObamaFile.com.

    WorldNetDaily’s “Where have all his records gone?” posting further elaborates on the following:

    * Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released — Lawyers fees — greater than $1,000,000 — birth certificate — $15.

    * Certification of Live Birth — Released – Counterfeit – Case and Affidavits

    * Admitted British citizenship at birth — Confirmed via FactCheck.org/FightTheSmears.com

    * Birth Announcement — Alleged to be a forgery

    * Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released

    * Obama/Dunham divorce – Released (by independent investigators)

    * Kindergarten records – Records lost (this is a big one — see here – read two frames)

    * Soetoro/Dunham marriage license — Not released

    * Soetoro adoption records — Not released

    * Fransiskus Assisi School School application — Released (by independent investigators)

    * Punahou School records — Not released

    * Soetoro/Dunham divorce – Released (by independent investigators)

    * Selective Service Registration — Released – Counterfeit – Document Locator Number update – another FOIA request

    * Occidental College records — Not released

    * Passport — Not released and records scrubbed clean by Obama’s terrorism and intelligence adviser

    * Columbia College records — Not released

    * Columbia thesis — “Soviet Nuclear Disarmament” – Not released

    * Harvard College records — Not released

    * Harvard Law Review articles — None

    * Illinois Bar Records — Not released.

    * Baptism certificate — None

    * Medical records — Not released

    * Illinois State Senate records — None

    * Illinois State Senate schedule — Lost

    * Law practice client list — Not released

    * University of Chicago scholarly articles — None

    5 years ago
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  301. @Twitchy- you wrote "Sorry, but the truth is already out there. You just don't want to believe it. Promoting lies and misinformation is not arguing the truth." As William Blake once said, 'When I tell any truth it is not for the sake of convincing those who do not know it, but for the sake of defending those who do.'

    You're probably a smart guy Twitchy and perhaps manage your money, time and resources well. Is this a fair statement? With this presumption, why do you suppose that your hero would spend over $1M in an effort not to show these documents? I understand that $1M is not alot to a wealthy elitist, but it's still a fair amount of change- don't you think he would post the actual documents or send certified copies to the court for examination rather than filing motions to deny discovery? I know that I'll get nothing but nonsense back from you in response to this post, and that's ok- but I would like you to think about this a bit. Have a great day.

    5 years ago
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  302. LOL ...Twitchy is an obsessed fanatic. I haven't been here for a week and decided to look in today, and there's twitchy still obsessing that no one will accept Obama'a fake birth certificate! LOL

    Anyway, we must mobilize to clean out all of Washington, get rid of (vote out) all of the presently seated Congress and Senate, and put a patriotic Natural Born American in the white house. Only then can we begin the long march to recovery from this Obama economic trainwreck. Until we do that, we are only marching ever closer to Soviet style communism, complete with cronyism and appointed (not elected) influence. Under the Obama dictatorship, we can expect an ever-growing lower class, and a narrowing scope of ruling elite.

    Obama is not an American in my view. He is a foreign-born imposter, and having taken the oath of office, is a traitor to that to which he has sworn allegiance. Of course twitchy is choking on his malt-o-meal right about now. LOL

    5 years ago
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  303. obelus, I wish you the most sincere luck in your pursuit; and I encourage your effort to repair a broken national agenda which is exacerbated by the continuance of obviously flawed and failed economic policies. I also urge you to truly consider the ramifications of your accusations as a false pretense can derail your cause. In my opinion we are nowhere near communism nor headed on that road and such accusations can detract from your obviously prudent ascertainment by exposing a flawed understanding of political theory. The consolidation of power is nevertheless frightening but is a far-cry from communism or even socialism which both imply a perceived (if not a real) shared benefit to the populace.

    As I've articulated previously, your acceptance of the birth certificate is irrelevant as this argument will go nowhere. You've demonstrated an understanding of this fact by a call to mobilization to clean out our corrupt and decrepit legislative system which is the primary impediment to real social progress. The actor-in-chief who entertains on behalf of the American people and implements policy in accordance with prescribed definition is of little significance because - if such claims are true, they are simply an inconvenient personal realization overshadowed by monumental errors in decision-making. It is the effect of Obama's policy implementation in reference to campaign promises and adherence to dynamic social paradigms and other tangible results which will define the legacy of his presidency - not an unfounded accusation regarding the legitimacy of one's documentation a posteriori.

    One can make many attempts to conceal truth but none can deny its reality.

    5 years ago
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  304. Twitchy, I can't speak for anyone else but I do not see enough concrete evidence to make a determination one way or the other. So far, no court has actually examined any of the documents in question. I believe that if the facts were thoroughly examined then the decision of the court would be accepted. The cases completed so far have not satisfied anyone because no document discovery has ever been conducted. The cases were dismissed for "lack of standing" without any examination of documents. Not even the document posted by factcheck.org has ever been presented to a court.

    5 years ago
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  305. jwelborn3434,

    That is the point! No one has standing in the courts. If WE THE PEOPLE do not have standing when it comes to the points concerning constitution, we have no protection from the constitution.

    Eight members of the supreme court met with the President while a case against the President was on the docket. The next day the case was no longer on the docket with no explanation as to why it was removed. This is a violation of the separation of powers. It should scare the h out of you! It does me...

    5 years ago
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  306. sreinke,

    You're a hoot! Let's look at a couple of your "FACTS":

    "* Original, vault copy birth certificate — Not released — Lawyers fees — greater than $1,000,000 — birth certificate — $15."

    Where's your proof that the $1 million was spent to 'hide' the BC? How about comparing BO's legal expenditures after winning a presidential election to Bush's in 2000 and 2004?

    And what reason is there to release the "Original, vault copy birth certificate", when the CoLB certifies citizenship?

    "* Certification of Live Birth — Released – Counterfeit – Case and Affidavits"

    Where's your proof that it's "Counterfeit"? Polarik? WND hired experts to look at it and the claimed "analyses" and they declared that the only trace of manipulation was by some of those claiming it had been manipulated.

    "* Admitted British citizenship at birth — Confirmed via FactCheck.org/FightTheSmears.com"

    Since when do the laws of other countries control us here in the States? Are you trying to claim that US law is subordinate to that of other countries?

    "* Birth Announcement — Alleged to be a forgery"

    I haven't heard that particular fantasy. Does that apply to both of them?

    "* Obama/Dunham marriage license — Not released"

    And, like most of this, what damn business is it of yours? KYFHO.

    5 years ago
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  307. shane,

    So, tell me how much the Bush campaign spent in legal fees after winning the 2000 and 2004 elections.

    Then tell me what they were trying to hide.

    5 years ago
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  308. obelus,

    If I'm an "obsessed fanatic", what does that make all these people whining "show us the BC" over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over...?

    5 years ago
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  309. he has to qualify, before and well, that was some time back, so he's foreign, and not an american. your an obama fanatic. what is obsessed. what is obsessed, with being american. being, a good worker, and making money. working hard on something, he's foreign and has to show his birth certificate. and saying over and over he's born in hawaii, doesn't make it true, or eventually, it isn't true, he's kenyan, not born in hawaii.

    fact

    fact 1. presidents have to be american.

    fact 2. obama is foreign.

    he has to show his birth certificate, and be dragged out, by americans. no one else, hell russia would like to see it go down. they never where messing around with jfk, unlike what your obama fanatic bullcrap, saying testing john f kennedy, if they do anything it's them, they are saying what they want to do. someone test, bwahaha. sayijng hwat you want to do.

    5 years ago
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  310. Scroll down and see which little red book is frequently ordered with the new Chairman Obama's little blue book.

    http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Obama-Editors-History-Company/dp/0978736842/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233277344&sr=8-1

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  311. ld,

    Yeah, that's nice kid. Time for your nap now.

    5 years ago
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  312. Twitchy

    Laws of other countries are not of consequence unless you happen to be a citizen of another country! BHO's dad was a citizen of Kenya. That places BHO's dad under British law. British law also places BHO's dad's children under British law. British law certainly does have an impact when the constitution of the United States requires you are a Natural born citizen to be the President. Look at the resolution expressing faith that John McCain is a Natural Born Citizen in the Senate.

    http://leahy.senate.gov/press/200804/041008c.html

    Every time the words, “citizen” and “parent,” are used by Sen. Leahy and Sec. Chertoff, the plural case, “citizens” and “parents,” is used. The plural case is always used, meaning both parents must be citizens according to Leahy!

    Senator Obama is a co-sponsor of this resolution, so I guess he does not consider himself a Natural Born Citizen either since he only has one parent who was a US Citizen.

    Even this does not address the fact Obama gave up his citizenship when he was adopted by Lolo Soetoro. He attended a government school which could only be attended by citizens of Indonesia. Indonesia did not have a duel citizenship status. Therefor Barry Soetoro, his adopted name, was no longer a citizen of the US and could in no way be considered a natural born citizen! Another real question is, what is his real name?

    There is no record of him changing his name back to Barack Obama!

    There are way more questions. The more you dig, the more questions you will have.

    5 years ago
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  313. Some essays and opeds on the term Natural Born Citizenship.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/OPED/eds.html

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  314. sreinke,

    Foreign laws do not control US citizenship. Unless the person renounces his citizenship, he remains a US citizen.

    Use of the plural does not necessarily exclude the singular. Chester A. Arthur's father was not a citizen at the time of Arthur's birth. He was Irish, and therefore a British subject. Yet no one questioned Arthur's eligibility on that basis. There were attacks based on the false idea that he was born in Canada or Ireland, but nothing about his father's citizenship.

    Obama, as a minor, could not legally, under US law, give up his citizenship. And can you document that Soetoro legally adopted Obama? Again, Indonesian law does not control US citizenship. You seem to be trying to argue that US law is subordinate to British and Indonesian law. Can you document that the school he went to "could only be attended by citizens of Indonesia", or is that another bogus argument?

    The more you investigate non-birther sources, the more ridiculous birthers' questions look.

    ramjet767,

    Were any of those written by recognized Constitutional authorities? Laurence Tribe, maybe, or Eugene Volokh?

    5 years ago
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  315. hey twitch.... maybe he checked the constitution where it says you have to be american. but hey i guess you've seen it so why don't you just shut up. kenyan.

    5 years ago
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  316. Excerpt from TheObamaFile.com 14 Jun 2009 posting

    http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaLatest.htm

    Obama's Admission in his own book.

    From "Dreams From My Father" -- page 26, last paragraph:

    "I discovered this article, folded away among my birth certificate and old vaccination forms, when I was in high school. It's a short piece, with a photograph of him. No mention is made of my mother or me, and I'm left to wonder whether the omission was intentional on my father's part, in anticipation of his long departure. Perhaps the reporter failed to ask personal questions, intimidated by my father's imperious manner; or perhaps it was an editorial decision, not part of the simple story that they were looking for. I wonder, too, whether the omission caused a fight between my parents."

    This paragraph exists in "Dreams from My Father." It is proof that Obama's birth certificate exists, that his grandmother had a copy, and that he's seen it. So he knows what's on it, and whatever it is -- or isn't -- it's the reason he is fighting its release so ferociously.

    Undoubtedly, this knowledge provided the motivation for the ransacking of his grandmother Dunham's apartment within hours of her death. He was looking for this document before it fell into the "wrong" hands."

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  317. ramjet767,

    So, basically, you've got nothing better to do than spam us.

    5 years ago
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  318. Hi Twitchy,

    Did you get your check from your ACORN this week? I understand the Governor of Louisiana is investigating your group's money funnel.

    Some suggested reading for you:

    http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  319. All:

    An excellent essay analyzing the term "natural born citizen":

    http://www.greschak.com/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  320. ramjet767,

    Have you been able to find an article from someone with an actual reputation yet? And I don't mean a reputation for looniness, but one for Constitutional scholarship.

    5 years ago
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  321. Twitchy,

    1. Have you been able to find anyone in official capacity within the government, with expertise to determine a paper document's authenticity, who has personally examined the paper copy of the Certification of Live Birth (COLB), the image of which is widely posted on the internet, and attested and stated and certified as a government official and document expert that the paper document is genuine and that it was not created out of "whole cloth" using PhotoShop?

    2. Point me to your constitutional legal scholar who has examined Obama's paper records and history and has certified that Obama a constitutionally qualified to constitutional standards under Article II of the Constitution and is a natural born citizen.

    3. Show me a statement and video anywhere of Obama with his own lips that he himself has stated that he is a natural born citizen of the USA. Not native born, but a natural born citizen.

    4. Show me a statement and video anywhere where Obama himself says the digital image on the internet of the Certification of Live Birth (COLB) is genuine.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  322. RJ,

    The thing is, you're making the accusations, so the burden of proof is on you.

    1. Nobody with any credibility has challenged the authenticity of the CoLB. That includes the State of Hawaii, which issued it.

    2. There is no Constitutional definition for natural-born citizen, and the legal precedents are a bit murky. However, if Chester A. Arthur was eligible to be VP & President, then it's likely that BO is.

    3. Who goes around saying that they're a natural born citizen? And why is a statement from BO relevant? You wouldn't believe it anyway.

    4. Why would he? His campaign put it up and they claim, as representatives of BO, that it is.

    http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/

    5 years ago
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  323. Twitchy,

    Stop belittling the many officers of the military who have filed a law suite challenging his eligibility. I guess Ambassadors don't have credibility either, and congressmen don't have any credibility either. I guess in your book, only acorn members and Chicago thugs have credibility. (Lets just ignore Phil Berg - Big Hillary supporter)

    By the way you really should stop smoking rope, they don't make them out of hemp anymore.

    Since you obviously have time on your hands, why not read the book "The Law of Nations."

    You will find citizenship of children follow the citizenship of their father! That makes BO a citizen of Kenya. Also to be a natural born citizen, the parents are always referred to in the plural.

    Chester A. Arthur being born in Canada was a rumor that was never substantiated and was not the same issue.

    It's never a good idea to rely on the revisionists at wikipedia ...anybody can edit their facts...

    5 years ago
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  324. This is the single most important question of the day. "Is our President eligible to be President, under the Constitution of the United States?" Until that question is answered, nothing else matters.

    5 years ago
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  325. There is nothing more important than the constitution.Nothing can be allowed to destroy the constitution.And no one is above the constitution.So yes it is more important than all you stated.For obvious reasons.

    5 years ago
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  326. The CONSTITUTION is THE number one priority.....

    Good grief...........Is he eligible or not...........It is REALLY a simple ....Yes or No question and the burden of proof is on.................................................................................HIM...........

    To All people of the United States.......Democratic, Republican, or Independent.

    5 years ago
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  327. sreinke,

    Being a military officer (and how many is 'many'?) doesn't make you immune from nuttiness. Nor does being an ambassador or a congressman (especially a congressman).

    "The Law of Nations" is a book, not a treaty or any kind of binding legislation.

    How citizenship is conferred, or inherited, is determined by the laws of the countries involved, which may not even agree. According to US law, BO is an American citizen, no matter what the laws of the UK, Kenya or Indonesia may say.

    And the use of the plural does not necessarily exclude the singular.

    Chester A. Arthur's father was a British subject at the time of Arthur's birth. According to your (incorrect) logic, that made Arthur ineligible to be Vice President or President. The rumor about him being born in Canada is indeed irrelevant.

    It's never a good idea to rely on wackos and conspiracy theorists for "facts".

    As far as BO's actual eligibility, he's shown everyone legal documentation that he was born in Hawaii. According to law and precedent, that makes him eligible to be President.

    5 years ago
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  328. Twitchy, twitchy, twitchy. You are a naughty boy/girl the way you mix and match and interchange terms conveniently. You are an excellent practitioner of conversational hypnosis. You'd do well as a used car salesperson. The bottom line question is not whether Obama is an American citizen. It is whether he is an Article II natural born citizen per constitutional standards.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  329. no ramjet,

    yes i agree twitchy is a big fat pile of poo.

    but the constitution, and here's where yo need to read, describes an american. so american is teh term to use in the sentence you have to be an american to be president.

    thank you thank you. i read and know stuff, and everyday its something different with these people, i am a ists person a theory one, i'm asomething everyday, i know i am. arguing over schematics with these people is the most stupid thing you can do. they do the same thing over and over, there stupid, and to argue over that is stupid, doing it over and over. do i ahve to say the definition of stupid, doing the same thing over and over expecting a different response. ok i had something i wanted to say, oh yea, everyday it's something different, constantly another whining. never knowing what to do. well there's laws, the constitution is the law follow it. theres also punishments.

    what you gonna do.

    5 years ago
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  330. and his proof of being born in hawaii, legal proof would be no reasonable doubt. a certification of live birth said over and over, and you don't listen so shut up isn't viable. it can be given to anyone at anytime, and has no signatures on it, it is done later, and isn't even looked back on the original birth certificate, except to get the names of who, and that's it. and a date. everything else isn't made to say anything. it isn't what was on the other because they don't have to. go look at hawaii's laws just anybody, not twitchy, cause he'll lie. actually i've heard enough news, and i don't need an explanation of news, cause your's sucks. news is information. saying because news is american or on cnn doesn't make it true. theres no law that says that. and his dads... race was said to be african american, in that date, that's not what they put, they put negro. oh wow must of got that later. and an expert ron polarik, name changed because of twitchy, hehe, and anyone like him, who can see forgeries, like if someone said they had a painting done at a time, and that was there claim and they said it was old and wanted money for it even though it wasn't good, he could look at it if he was an art expert and say if it was from 1400's or not. a forgery expert said it's a forgery.

    and the constitution says you have to be american, but that doesn't matter to you cause all you want to do is break teh law.

    owned.

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  331. i mean probably doubt. crap.

    5 years ago
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  332. Democracy:

    A government of the masses.

    Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.

    Results in mobocracy.

    Attitude toward property is comunistic-negating property rights.

    Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate. whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.

    Results in demagogism license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

    Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success.

    A certain Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago, had this to say about Democracy: " A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship."

    A democracy is majority rule and is destructive of liberty because there is no law to prevent the majority from trampling on individual rights. Whatever the majority says goes! A lynch mob is an example of pure democracy in action. There is only one dissenting vote, and that is cast by the person at the end of the rope.

    Republic:

    Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.

    Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure.

    Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.

    A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.

    Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.

    Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.

    A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of:

    an executive and

    a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create

    a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their governmental acts and to recognize

    certain inherent individual rights.

    Take away any one or more of those four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and you are drifting into democracy.

    Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic."

    A republic is a government of law under a Constitution. The Constitution holds the government in check and prevents the majority (acting through their government) from violating the rights of the individual. Under this system of government a lynch mob is illegal. The suspected criminal cannot be denied his right to a fair trial even if a majority of the citizenry demands otherwise.

    Difference between Democracy and Republic, in brief:

    Democracy:

    a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority.

    b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.

    Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences

    Republic

    a: a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government.

    b: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.

    Democracy and Republic are often taken as one of the same thing, but there is a fundamental difference. Whilst in both cases the government is elected by the people, in Democracy the majority rules according to their whims, whilst in the Republic the Government rule according to law. This law is framed in the Constitution to limit the power of Government and ensuring some rights and protection to Minorities and individuals.

    The difference between Republic and Righteous Republic is that in the Republic the Government rules according to the law set up by men, in the Righteous Republic the law is the Law of God. Only in the Righteous Republic it can truly be said "One nation under God" for it is governed under commandments of the only One True God and there is no pluralism of religions.

    Autocracy declares the divine right of kings; its authority can not be questioned; its powers are arbitrarily or unjustly administered.

    Mobocracy: 1. Political control by a mob. 2. The mass of common people as the source of political control.

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  333. Oh good. We have a conspiracy theorist, an incoherent fool and a spammer (freedomfighter4theplanet, do you have any thoughts of your own?). I can see that BO is really in trouble.

    RJ, there is no legal definition of exactly what the term "natural born citizen" means. But, since BO was born in Hawaii, and his mother was a citizen, he seems to be just as eligible as Chester A. Arthur was.

    ld, you need to take your meds. Or maybe stop frying your brain with glue sniffing, or whatever. The Certification of Live Birth (CoLB) is an extract from Hawaii's birth records. It is not a document that "can be given to anyone at anytime". If Hawaii doesn't have a birth certificate on file for you (and, nowadays, those are simply computer records, not paper documents), they won't give you a CoLB. If it has the proper signature and raised seal, then it's a certified copy, and it's the same as a birth certificate for proof of identity or citizenship.

    His dad's race on the CoLB is "African", not "African American". At the time, and maybe still, the doctor put on the birth certificate what the parents told him the race was. His dad was from Kenya, so "African" makes perfect sense.

    And Polarik is a fraud. WND had experts look at the images of the CoLB, and they couldn't find any signs of tampering. WND would be a hostile witness.

    As for "owned", my daughter, when she was three, would have had no problem pwning you.

    freedomfighter4theplanet, yes, democracy degenerates to mob rule, then totalitarianism. That's why we can't allow demagogues, like WND, to disrupt the country.

    5 years ago
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  334. Twitchy, you should be ashamed of yourself making statements that you know are not true. Natural born citizenship is defined in legal books contemporaneous with the writing of the constituion. And, the U.S. Supreme Court decision of Minor vs. Happersett provided a definition of natural born citize "of which there is no doubt".

    "In 1797, an English translation of Emmerich de Vattel's Law of Nations gave this definition of "natural born citizen":

    The natives, or natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. (Vattel, Law of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 19)

    In both Patsall and Vattel, "natural born citizen" meant much more than someone who was born in a particular place. Parentage, upbringing and education also contributed to the meaning of "natural born citizen".

    4.4 "Natural born citizen" appeared in Supreme Court decisions

    In 1874, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed Vattel's definition of "natural born citizen":

    At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.

    Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.

    For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient, for everything we have now to consider, that all children, born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction, are themselves citizens (Minor v. Happersett, 1874)

    The Supreme Court said, in effect:

    * There is no doubt that, if you were born in the United States and both of your parents were U.S. citizens at the time of your birth, you are a natural born citizen.

    * Throughout American history, various "authorities" (judges, district attorneys, legal experts, etc.) have expressed support for the "citizenship-by-birthplace-alone" theory. According to this theory, U.S.-born children of non-citizen parents are citizens at birth and presumably natural born citizens as well.

    * The "citizenship-by-birthplace-alone" theory is unproven and remains subject to doubt.

    Read more essays at:

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  335. Twitchy, twitchy ... to point to one corrupt, liar, and deceitful person in history who deceived the American electorate and got away with it at the time because no one knew about his deceit at the time, to justify the the deceitful actions of a modern day corrupt and lying and deceitful person, i.e., Obama, is not a very good tactic. The deceit of the voters pulled off by Arthur when he ran for Vice-President was only recently confirmed and revealed by historians.

    Natural born citizenship is defined in legal books contemporaneous with the writing of the constitution. AND, ... the U.S. Supreme Court decision of Minor vs. Happersett provided a definition of natural born citizen "of which there is no doubt".

    "In 1797, an English translation of Emmerich de Vattel's Law of Nations gave this definition of "natural born citizen":

    The natives, or natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. (Vattel, Law of Nations, Book 1, Chapter 19)

    In both Patsall and Vattel, "natural born citizen" meant much more than someone who was born in a particular place. Parentage, upbringing and education also contributed to the meaning of "natural born citizen".

    4.4 "Natural born citizen" appeared in Supreme Court decisions

    In 1874, the U.S. Supreme Court affirmed Vattel's definition of "natural born citizen":

    At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.

    Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first.

    For the purposes of this case, it is not necessary to solve these doubts. It is sufficient, for everything we have now to consider, that all children, born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction, are themselves citizens (Minor v. Happersett, 1874)

    The Supreme Court said, in effect:

    * There is no doubt that, if you were born in the United States and both of your parents were U.S. citizens at the time of your birth, you are a natural born citizen.

    * Throughout American history, various "authorities" (judges, district attorneys, legal experts, etc.) have expressed support for the "citizenship-by-birthplace-alone" theory. According to this theory, U.S.-born children of non-citizen parents are citizens at birth and presumably natural born citizens as well.

    * The "citizenship-by-birthplace-alone" theory is unproven and remains subject to doubt.

    For more information about the legal term of art "natural born citizen" see:

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  336. Twitchy,

    The question the "certification" does not answer, that the "certificate" would, is whether the birth was recorded at a hospital. If not, Hawaiian law allows for "unattended" births to be recorded based on the statement of "any person having knowledge of the birth." (HRS 338-6)

    If the original "certificate of live birth" (aka birth certificate) was based entirely on the statement of one person who claimed to be a witness, then the document is only as credible as that person. Even you have to admit that one witness statement, with no corroboration, is a poor standard of proof. Any infant, whose family can find one apparently credible person to lie for them, can be certified as Hawaiian born.

    If the "certificate of live birth" was completed at the hospital where birth occurred, then it will match up with the hospital's patient records and confirm the facts of the birth beyond a reasonable doubt.

    5 years ago
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  337. A proposed narrative to explain the various seemingly conflicting statements made about Obama's birth in Kenya and Hawaii:

    Underage U.S. teenager gets pregnant via a significantly older married man from Kenya. An unusual event in 1961.

    Mother of teenager is in total shock over the event as would have been many mothers of teenage girls getting pregnant in 1961 and says to her daughter you have ruined your life and will make going to college much harder for yourself and convinces the teenage girl to go to Kenya in the last month of her pregnancy and give up the baby to the Kenyan natural family of the natural father of the child to be raised in Kenya by them.

    The Kenyan grandmother of the child attends birth in Kenyan hospital in Mombasa Kenya and is ready to take custody of the child and raise the child for the foot loose and fancy free natural father with multiple wives ... and the U.S. teenage mother is supposed return to Hawaii leaving the child with the natural father's family and restart her life back in Hawaii minus the child ... and go to college. In 1961, pregnant teenage girls giving up children to restart their lives anew was not unusual.

    But nature throws the plan a curve ball. Maternal instincts kick in and mother cannot leave the baby in Kenya, either due to pure maternal instincts or in seeing the conditions in Kenya that her child would be raised in with a mostly absentee father over there. Thus she changes her mom's plan and she takes the baby and birth certificate issued by the Mombassa Hospital to the American Embassy or consulate in Kenya and shows them the Kenyan Birth Certificate for her child and "explains" the baby was born unexpectedly in Kenya while there visiting her "husband's" family. U.S. officials then stamp her passport as traveling with an infant child.

    Mother gets on plane carrying the child and flies back to Hawaii and appears at the airport arrival with the new baby in tow, much to the shock of her mother, the child's U.S. grandmother. Baby easily is passed through U.S. entry officials due to embassy stamp on mother's passport and the supporting Kenyan birth certificate showing a U.S. citizen is the mother.

    Child's U.S. grandmother is still besides herself at this change in plans by the mother of the child. The child's grandmother then knowing or learning from legal advisers how lax Hawaiian birth registration laws were in 1961, then cooks up a plan and scheme with the child's mother, to lie to Hawaiian officials and swear and sign affidavits at the birth registry office that the child was born in Hawaii at home with no witnesses but them, in order to get the child U.S. citizenship (a highly desirable status) to make future travel and life easier on the family and new child. They did this lie and cover up simply to gain U.S. citizenship for the child a highly coveted status for any child, not knowing that this child might someday grow up and try to become the President and thus risk having their whole plans and lies exposed.

    Birth registration office then issues the announcements to the two newspapers, as was the offices custom at the time to send the papers lists of babies born, of the birth event which at its source was only based on the false sworn testimony of the mother. Thus the birth notices in the newspapers are not independent data, they all came from the same source, ... false sworn statements from the mother and/or grandmother that the child was born in Hawaii.

    Thus under this narrative the birth records in the vaults in Hawaii may be simply sworn affidavits of the mother and grandmother saying Obama was born at home with no witnesses, all based on lies and fraud, which seems to be a common occurrence with Mr. O's entire life.

    JMHO and a suggested narrative to explain events and facts as revealed thus far.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  338. You know the people here in the United States rally have no idea how the rest of the world lives, and copes with their own governments. I am a veteran of a foreign war, and have seen what those people live like. We here in the United States have no idea what they go through on a daily basis. They struggle to stay alive, they don't have rights like we do. Let them say something against the government, or it's leader, and see if you can find where they are buried, if they got buried.

    Rome wasn't built in a day. Let me see anyone solve all the problems we have in the United States in as many days as some of the people on this site think they should be solved. All I hear is their right to free speech, being used. Stop talking and do something. Action will get it done.

    It is obvious what government did in the past isn't working, so why not try something else. The talkers need to start doing, if they want something changed. Hot air fills a balloon, and BS smells and makes a mess. Why not clean it up and get something done.

    I have a contribution, to show I don’t just talk, go to You Tube, Billy the Kid, White Gasoline Vapor. Now, where is your contribution?

    5 years ago
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  339. Twitchy,

    You said "If it has the proper signature and raised seal, then it's a certified copy, and it's the same as a birth certificate for proof of identity or citizenship."

    Really?

    Take off your pink Obama sunglasses and take a look at what has been released!

    1 - The first COLB they posted had the blocked out control number. Right! It was a jpg I say it was a fabrication of photoshop. There is no seal! No folds, no signature. As you state, it is not a certified copy!

    2 - Next they post a picture of someone holding a COLB, now the number is visible, it is folded in 2 places, but no seal and the text is printed in slightly different places. As you state, it also is not a certified copy.

    3 - Next they post another one, this time it has a seal across the bottom fold. The only problem is the seal is round and does not follow the fold of the paper! Still no signature. So, as you state, it also is not a certified copy.

    These are 3 different documents, all claiming to be the "real" COLB. It would be very simple to squash the birth certificate issue if someone will release a high resolution scan of the front and the back of the document. THEY CAN'T DO IT BECAUSE THE DOCUMENT DOES NOT EXIST!!!! If it just exists on the internet, how was someone holding it and had a picture taken of it!

    Wake up! From your postings you are not stupid, but you are certainly not a free thinker. You are an Obot...

    5 years ago
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  340. ramjet767,

    "The deceit of the voters pulled off by Arthur when he ran for Vice-President was only recently confirmed and revealed by historians."

    Another allegation without proof.

    Vattel's 'Law of Nations' is a book of legal theory, and is not binding in any way.

    Note that your quotes from "Minor v. Happersett, 1874" use the terms "natural born citizen" and "citizen" interchangeably. They also do not explicitly state that both parents must be citizens. Grammatically, the singular case could easily be a subset of the plural case.

    jwelborn3434,

    You actually make some decent points, but, is there any reason to believe that BO was not born in Hawaii? ramjet767's proposed narrative seems rather fantastic, and would have left a paper trail (embassy records, flight manifests). There's also the fact that the step-grandmother specifically denied being at the birth and has always claimed that BO was born in Hawaii.

    sreinke,

    Stop drinking that Kool-Aid.

    The first CoLB was a low-res scan. According to BO's staff, they blocked out the number because they thought it might have encoded private data. Having seen some of the stupid things designed into systems like this, that seems plausible. Later they verified that it was just a number, You can't see the folds or the seal because scanners typically flatten out the paper and the lighting of a scan doesn't show texture very well (no shadows).

    The second, I assume you're talking about one of the factcheck photos, you can't see the seal because of the shadow across the form. It looks like the picture was taken from outside a car. I don't see any difference in the location of the text, considering that the first image was perfectly flat, and the second is not flat.

    Third one, I don't know what photo you're talking about. The one on factcheck that shows the seal follows the fold. They had to take that in slanted lighting to get the seal to throw shadows to make it visible. And the signature is on the back, just like it is on my BC.

    WND had experts examine the images, and they could find no trace of forgery. In fact, the only image alterations they could find were in images posted by some of those claiming the images were forged. WND was reduced to claiming "well, this still doesn't prove the document is genuine".

    5 years ago
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  341. Twitchy,

    At first I did not see much evidence to indicate that Obama was born anywhere other than Hawaii. The fact that his attorneys have refused to produce any documents requested in any of the many court cases filed raised my level of suspicion.

    Telling any citizen that he/she does not have legal standing to demand proof the president's eligibility is a bad political decision, as it alienates people. Do you like the idea that you have been deemed to have no standing to challenge the qualifications of your elected representatives? That a man hoping to have a second term in office will alienate voters rather than submit copies of his documents into evidence gives the appearance that he has something to hide.

    You have to admit that Obama ran a very effective campaign. I can't believe that he simply failed realize how bad this legal approach would look.

    5 years ago
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  342. Two things. First, I haven't seen any real evidence to indicate that BO was born anywhere except Hawaii. All I've seen are a bunch of frauds and unsupported allegations. And a few wild fantasies. It appears to be a witch hunt, nothing more.

    Second, it's the courts telling these fools that they don't have legal standing, not BO. So it's not a political decision at all.

    So, lacking ANY evidence to the contrary, what BO has currently provided is sufficient to prove that he's eligible.

    5 years ago
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  343. Natural-born citizens, are "those born in the country, of parents who are citizens", as defined in Vattel's masterpiece of political philosophy 'The Law of Nations' (1758) § 212, and instrumental to the Founding Fathers, who deemed it unnecessary to define in the Constitution, as it was already understood.

    This is supported by the personal writings of the Founding Fathers, the 1st & 3rd Congressional record, and case law.

    See the detailed history and facts here.

    http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaNaturalBorn.htm

    Obama's Kenyan fatter precludes Obama from being natural born. Therefore Obama is not eligible under the Constitution and is an illegal usurper!

    5 years ago
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  344. Twitchy,

    Just a couple of questions that you will most likely not answer, but I'll ask anyway. I'll make a weak presumption that you're not actually the moderator of this forum, but would like to know what your interest is in this particular issue? We believe that BO is a fraud and that if the documents that he has in his posession are shown to the public (as he mentions in his book), the truth will be revealed. We are passionate because we believe we are correct in our assumptions and there is much to lose for our country and way of life if we are correct and do not act.

    If he produces a Kenyan birth certificate, it is again weakly presumable that you would not want a liar and fraud leading our country. If he produces an American birth certificate, nothing changes for you.

    If we are wrong, nothing changes for people who think like you. You have nothing to gain in either case, whether he is a legitimate candidate or not,

    unless you also believe him to be a fraud and gain by protecting him, or are paid in some way through party or personal afilliation. I'm just curious about where you fall on these matters? ACORN Member? Post moderator, Attorney from Sidley Austin? Are you really Christopher Seaman? Just curious.

    5 years ago
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  345. ramjet767,

    Ever seen a scanner before? Ever used one? A seal, however light, and whatever reasonable resolution will show. It certainly would on the document published. Creases are also very visible! Even if it was white paper you scanned in, a crease is visible!

    I don't think it is Kool-Aid YOU have been drinking!! I'd stick to plain water, it's better for you anyway... it's what I drink. That way I can think objectively.

    Now, WND, how could an expert examine a document that is just a JPG!!! IT DOES NOT EXIST ON PAPER!!!! Beside that it is not a legal document anyway. Even Hawaii state law requires the long form BC.

    SECOND:::: HOW COULD SOMEONE BE HOLDING A JPG, SHADOWS OR NO SHADOWS!!!!! We were told Hawaii released the document electronically. THE DOCUMENT DOES NOT EXIST!!!!

    FOURTH: In the photo with the seal visible, draw a circle around the printed seal at the top of the document. You will find it is not round and will not fit into the circle. You cannot draw a flat circle around it because it is folded! Now draw a circle around the embossed seal at the bottom. It is very round and fits into the circle. It shouldn't even be close, as demonstrated in the top circle! The angle of the folds is about the same, so the seal was placed on the image after the picture was taken. The seal does not follow the fold.

    It's A forgery.

    5 years ago
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  346. Sreinke,

    You are correct, no controlling legal authority document experts have ever seen or examined any piece of paper proffered by the Obama camp. All Obama has offered to the electorate and public is a digital image. That is not conclusive evidence of anything. Everyone knows what can be done with PhotoShop. Obama's whole life is littered with fraudulent or hidden documents.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  347. Twitchy,

    I did not say there was any hard evidence. The only evidence would be the documents that have been subpoenaed but were never produced.

    The courts mad rulings on the issue of standing in responce to motion to dismiss for lack of standing by Obama's attorneys. Therefore, he or his attorneys did choose that mode of response to the allegations.

    I'm in law enforcement. If I walk up to someone on the street and say "We have had a lot of robberies in the area. Have you seen anything?" and that person replies "I don't have to answer your questions." it makes me suspicious. The person would be right that I could not compel them to answer questions. However, the response is an overreaction to the nature of the question.

    tIf asked if they are legally qualified for there job, most people would reply "Of course I am, and I can prove it" not "you don't have the right to ask me that."

    So, you are right that I have nothing but gut feeling to go on at this point. However, it is a gut instinct based on a decade of training and experience.

    5 years ago
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  348. shane,

    Frankly, I think you're all partisan wackos and poor losers. Wackos can be dangerous if their wackoness isn't countered by facts and logical argument.

    I also don't think the country should be run by conspiracy theorists and wackos. The whole birther movement is a witch hunt. You've got no facts, no evidence, just paranoia and fantasies.

    Plus, the behavior of most birthers on this site indicates their complete disregard for any rules or other people. All they care about is their agenda, and anything else is just too bad.

    Witch hunts and lynch mobs are a lousy way to run things.

    5 years ago
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  349. Twitchy,

    Interesting commentary. Simply calling something a conspiracy theory doesn't negate the truth (if there is any) however. You did a nice job at eluding the question also, so I'll guess that you're an attorney for Obama then?

    5 years ago
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  350. sreinke,

    Apparently you don't even know who you're talking to, much less what you're talking about.

    Yes, I've "seen a scanner before" AAMOF, I just scanned an old college transcript, with a raised seal, at 100 dpi, which appears to be roughly what the original jpg was scanned at, and there isn't a trace of the seal. And you can't see the creases either.

    WND's experts examined the posted images, not the original document. That's why I said "WND had experts examine the images".

    With the signature and seal, the CoLB is functionally equivalent to the original BC for purposes of determining identity and citizenship. The only thing I know of where the long form is preferred is a special program in Hawaii to provide homesteads for Hawaiians with at least 50% native ancestry. Even then, they accept the CoLB, but state that it will delay the process. I'd like to know just what is on the long form that they need that isn't on the short form.

    Where did you hear that "Hawaii released the document electronically"? How could there be bleed through from the back of the form in the image if it wasn't taken from a real document? Hawaii prints the CoLB on demand, from their database of births, then stamps the back with the signature and impresses the seal.

    You need to study a little geometry. The seal at the top has the fold going right through the middle, so the fold's effect is at its maximum. The seal at the bottom has the fold near the edge, so the effect is much less. Look at some of the other images posted at factcheck. You'll see the lighting is consistent with the seal being there, and the fold changes the lighting.

    Try thinking objectively, with your brain, not with your emotions.

    5 years ago
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  351. 5 years ago
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  352. jwelborn3434,

    The lawyers don't decide if the plaintiff lacks standing. The judge does that, in accordance with law and precedent. They could probably have simply asked for the judge to follow privacy laws, since there's no evidence to support questioning Obama's eligibility.

    This isn't like you walking up and asking questions. It's more like you walking up to random people and saying "We have had a lot of robberies in the area. Can I search you?" and getting "No" for a reply. The question is an overreaction to the nature of the problem.

    Most people, if asked if they are legally qualified for their job, would reply "What are you talking about? I already showed my employer my drivers license and Social Security card. Who the hell are you?"

    5 years ago
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  353. A warning from the past from Yuri Bezmenov:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/e53diZ0vboM&hl=en&fs=1

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  354. shane,

    You've got no evidence, and most of your 'facts' are made up, deliberate frauds. The whole birther movement is the equivalent of an internet chain letter, like the ones about dying kids trying to make Guinness by collecting Christmas cards, when the kid either died or recovered decades ago, or never existed at all. I absolutely hate those letters, the a@@holes that start them, and the fools that perpetuate them. Is that good enough for you?

    Not to mention the way many of you spam otherwise useful websites with absolute garbage. Many of the birthers here would have been banned from any well-run website within days of their first appearance, behaving the way many of them have here.

    jwelborn3434 mentioned that he thought that BO was alienating voters. Well, paranoid witch hunts alienate me. At least half the problems in the world today are because too many people can't, or simply don't bother to, think. That applies to all parts of the political spectrum.

    5 years ago
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  355. Twitchy- You're hostile and you answer every single post... so you've definately got skin in the game somehow. If you were an average Joe with either a real job, or one that wasn't funded in some way by Obama, you would simply press on about your business and not spend the time that you do on this. I don't expect to get a straight answer on how you're connected, but Occam's Razor has always worked well. It's easy to see why a patriot would be passionate about the topic, but my friend- I can tell you're no patriot. Our conversations on this board make no difference as, much like the president and his transparency promises, it's a sham. The truth will eventually surface.

    5 years ago
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  356. Twitchy,

    ""Most people, if asked if they are legally qualified for their job, would reply "What are you talking about? I already showed my employer my drivers license and Social Security card. Who the hell are you?""

    1. The American people, as a whole, are the employers of the president.

    2. Can you name me any elected or appointed federal official who has claimed to have reviewed all appropriate documents to establish Obama's citizenship status? Everyone assumes that he must have been vetted prior to being place on the primary ballot and/or before his party nomination. However, no one from the Democratic party of the federal election commission has admitted to actually doing the vetting.

    To my knowledge, the only information disclosed by even a state official is that there is a "certificate of live birth" (aka birth certificate) on file with the state of Hawaii. No mention was made of the contents of that document.

    Can we really afford to make assumptions on this? Big mistakes can and have happened because everyone assumes someone else must done the proper verification.

    5 years ago
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  357. Let me ask all of you - have we had a president (perhaps since Kennedy, if at all...) that wasn't an illegitimate liar, cheat, and crook?

    Didn't think so...

    I've literally deleted dozens if not hundreds of emails from the lot of you over the past few weeks; all of which fail to raise any new arguments or evidence. Can we agree to disagree and allow the fundamentalists on both sides to plead your cases via a more effective medium?

    This discussion is getting nowhere.

    5 years ago
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  358. If the deadline (Monday 6-29-09)for answer by the the defense is met in Kerchner v. Obama the issue may be settled very soon.

    5 years ago
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  359. shane,

    I'm hostile because I'm sick and tired of self-proclaimed 'patriots' who don't know WTF they're talking about, but are sure that whatever BS they've been fed is God's Own Truth. I'm also currently unemployed, so this, and looking for jobs, are my major activities at the moment. And looking for jobs doesn't take very long.

    You're real patriots about as much as that loon that murdered the abortion doctor in Kansas recently.

    5 years ago
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  360. jwelborn3434,

    His Certificate of Live Birth will say the same thing that the released Certification of Live Birth says: he was born in Honolulu. That's because the Certificate is the source of the information on the Certification.

    5 years ago
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  361. Thanks Twitchy,

    We now know who created and posted the FAKE colb. You didn't do a very good job.

    Why don't you check your geometry! When a circle goes over a bend, and you photograph it, it will no longer be a perfect circle. No mater what part is bent. Maybe you'll get it right on the next COLB you produce.

    The real question is why didn't BO just release a copy of the BC that he mentions in his book? Could it be it is a Kenyan BC? His Grand Mother says she was at the hospital in Kenya when he was born.

    An ambassador from Kenya says he was born in Kenya.

    So what is the big deal about his long form BC. Hawaii issued COLB's for foreigners at the time BO was born. BO's own sister, who is Indonesian, has a COLB from Hawaii. She is NOT a US citizen. The constitution requires a candidate be a natural born citizen, exclusive of citizenship/loyalty to any other nation. Read the founding fathers documents and the constitution. The purpose of the inclusion of the clause is to exclude anyone with citizen ties to another country, for obvious reasons. If they just meant a citizen of the United States they would not have needed the phrase “or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of Adoption of this Constitution” since they were not natural born.

    Even from Obama's http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate states he had foreign citizenship, making him ineligible.

    From FactCheck.Org

    http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does_barack_obama_have_kenyan_citizenship.html

    FactCheck Question: “Does Barack Obama have Kenyan citizenship?”

    FactCheck Answer:

    “No. He held both U.S. and Kenyan citizenship as a child, but lost his Kenyan citizenship automatically on his 21st birthday.”

    So I guess according to you Governor Terminator should be able to run for president also…

    I have other questions also:

    Why did he seal up his college records? No other president that I know of has done this in the past. Could it be he went to college as a foreign student to get scholarship money?

    Why isn't the hospital where he was born making a big deal of the fact this is the place the president was born?

    Questions keep piling up, and there is a deafening silence from BO. It's time for some answers. We the people should have standing on an issue like this. What does he have to hide.

    5 years ago
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  362. Twitchy,

    You're unemployed. You can get a job with the FBI. But you'll have to signed this forum authorizing the release of all your life's activities and records such as academic records.

    http://www.fbijobs.gov/employment/fd-979.pdf

    In reading your latest postings I now understand that all your posts here are merely your opinion and you have not done much thinking about protecting the Constitutional Republic from a usurper. Why you allow a man to hide all his life's records from birth to college to travel for the highest office and job in this country is beyond me. Unless of course you are an ACORN volunteer sent here on a mission to post your endless drivel 24x7. Me personally, I want Obama to produce his hidden and sealed original records ... birth, college, travel, passports ... all of them.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  363. Twitchy,

    As I said before, the "certificate" will also include the specific location of birth (hospital or home) and the source of the information listed. Corroboration may then be obtained from additional sources (hospital records or witness statements for a home birth)

    You have not mentioned the names of those who conducted the vetting. How have you confirmed that it occurred?

    Please do not tell me "factcheck.org" they are not representatives of the government. If they were the only ones to lay hands on actual documents, then no formal vetting was done.

    5 years ago
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  364. Twitchy feins lack of knowledge of the difference between the data on a real Birth CERTIFICATE compared to computer generated Certification form. I am sure he knows the difference and is simply engaging in conversational hypnosis techniques here with a mixture of Saul Alinsky "Rules for Radicals" tactics. He's like been trained in those tactics at his local ACORN chapter.

    But, just in case, here it is:

    Certificate vs. Certification of Live Birth. What's the difference? Pictures and explanation.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101483

    Also, we all need to remember that no expert document examiner has actually seen and examined and reported on the actual paper document that Obama's camp alleges is his Certification of Live Birth, of which the electorate, public, and anyone else has only seen a questionable digital image. Can everyone spell PhotoShop?

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    P.S. I do hope Twitchy applies for a job with the FBI. Or maybe ICE. They could use people of his research caliber to help learn the true identity of people.

    5 years ago
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  365. Twitchy,

    Out of work. Need money.

    Produce an eye witness to Obama's birth and collect $10,000+.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101892

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  366. the grandma was there, theres audible proof and thats disinfo, ya and twitchy would show it and say uh he's born in hawaii.

    5 years ago
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  367. This explains Natural Born Citizen very well. It was posted on http://puzo1.blogspot.com/2009/04/article-ii-natural-born-citizen-means.html

    Mario Apuzzo, Esq. filed Kerchner v. Obama.

    Thursday, April 23, 2009

    Article II "Natural Born Citizen" Means Unity of Citizenship At Birth

    Article II of our Constitution has a lot to say about how a would-be President is born. "Natural born Citizen" status requires not only birth on U.S. soil but also birth to parents who are both U.S. citizens by birth or naturalization. This unity of jus soli (soil) and jus sanguinis (descent) in the child at the time of birth assures that the child is born with sole allegiance (obligation of fidelity and obedience to government in consideration for protection that government gives (U.S. v. Kuhn, 49 F.Supp.407, 414 (D.C.N.Y)) and loyalty to the United States and that no other nation can lay any claim to the child's (later an adult) allegiance and loyalty. Indeed, under such birth circumstances, no other nation can legally or morally demand any military or political obligations from that person. The child, as he/she grows, will also have a better chance of not psychologically struggling with conflicted allegiance and loyalty to any other nation.

    Unity of citizenship is based on the teachings of the law of nature (natural law) and the law of nations, as confirmed by ancient Greek and Roman law; American, European, and English constitutions, common and civil law, and statutes; and Vattel's, The Law of Nations, all of which the Founding Fathers read and understood. These sources have taught civilizations from time immemorial that a person gains allegiance and loyalty and therefore attachment for a nation from either being born on the soil of the community defining that nation or from being born to parents who were also born on that same soil or who naturalized as though they were born on that soil. It is only by combining at birth in the child both means to inherit these two sources of citizenship that the child by nature and therefore also by law is born with only one allegiance and loyalty to and consequently attachment for only the United States.

    Our Constitution requires unity of U.S. citizenship from birth only for the Office of President and Commander in Chief of the Military, given the unique nature of the position, a position that empowers one person to decide whether our national survival requires the destruction of or a nuclear attack on or some less military measure against another nation or group. It is required of the President because such a status gives the American people the best Constitutional chance that a would-be President will not have any foreign influences which because of conflict of conscience can most certainly taint his/her critical decisions made when leading the nation. Hence, the special status is a Constitutional eligibility requirement to be President and thereby to be vested with the sole power to decide the fate and survival of the American people. Of course, the status, being a minimum Constitutional requirement, does not guarantee that a would-be President will have love and fealty only for the United States. Therefore, the final informed and intelligent decision on who the President will be is left to the voters, the Electors, and Congress at the Joint Session, to whom hopefully responsible media and political institutions will have provided all the necessary vetting information concerning the candidate's character and qualifications to be President.

    Through historical development, unity of citizenship and sole allegiance at birth is not required for U.S. born citizen Senators, Representatives, and regular citizens under the 14th Amendment and Congressional enactments. In contradiction and which confirms the Founding Fathers' meaning of what a "natural born Citizen" is, naturalized citizens, since 1795, before becoming such must swear an oath that they renounce all other allegiances to other nations. During the Washington Administration, the First Congress passed the Naturalization Act of 1795 in which it provided that new citizens take a solemn oath to support the Constitution and “renounce” all “allegiance” to their former political regimes. This is during the time that most of the Framers were alive and still actively involved in guiding and forming the new national government and Constitutional Republic. Today, we still require that an alien upon being naturalized must give an oath that he/she renounces all former allegiances and that he/she will “support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” Hence, allegiance is not simply a thing of the past but very much with us today. It is important to also understand that naturalization takes an alien back to the moment of birth and by law changes that alien’s birth status. In other words, naturalization, which by legal definition requires sole allegiance to the United States, re-creates the individual as though he were a born Citizen but only does it by law and not by nature. This is the reason that the 14th Amendment considers a naturalized person to be a “citizen” of the United States and not a “natural born Citizen” of the United States. This recreation of birth status through naturalization which also existed under English common law also probably explains why John Jay underlined the word “born” when he recommended to General Washington that only a “natural born Citizen” (as to say born in fact, by nature, and not by law) be allowed to be President. Consequently, naturalized citizens stand on an equal footing with born Citizens (who are so recognized and confirmed by the 14th Amendment or by an Act of Congress and who can be but not necessarily are also “natural born Citizens”) except that they cannot be President or Vice President, for they were born with an allegiance not owing to the United States and acquire that allegiance only after birth. Surely, if a naturalized citizen, even though having sole allegiance to the United States, is not Constitutionally eligible to be President, we cannot expect any less of someone who we are willing to declare so Constitutionally eligible.

    The Founding Fathers emphasized that, for the sake of the survival of the Constitutional Republic, the Office of President and Commander in Chief of the Military be free of foreign influence and intrigue. It is the "natural born Citizen" clause that gives the American people the best fighting chance to keep it that way for generations to come. American people do not have the Constitutional right to have any certain person be President. But for the reasons stated above, minimally they do have a Constitutional right to protect their liberty by knowing and assuring that their President is Constitutionally qualified to hold the Office of President and Commander in Chief of the Military.

    Mario Apuzzo, Esq.

    185 Gatzmer Avenue

    Jamesburg NJ 08831

    Email: apuzzo [AT] erols.com

    TEL: 732-521-1900 ~ FAX: 732-521-3906

    BLOG: http://puzo1.blogspot.com

    5 years ago
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  368. sreinke,

    "His Grand Mother says she was at the hospital in Kenya when he was born."

    Why is it that all of your arguments are frauds?

    "An ambassador from Kenya says he was born in Kenya."

    Wow, YouTube is such a reliable source. Even better than Wikipedia.

    You don't think Kenyans have mass delusions, just like birthers (and others)? If it even is actually a Kenyan, much less a real ambassador.

    The Certification of Live Birth (coLB) is not an original document, therefore Hawaii did not issue it for foreigners at the time BO was born. The CoLB is an extract of the data on the original birth certificate, generated when someone asks for a copy of their Hawaiian birth certificate. If Obama's sister has a Hawaiian birth certificate, it would be a Certificate of Foreign Birth, and will state that she was born in Indonesia. If she asked for a copy of her Hawaiian BC, she'd get a CoLB that would also state that she was born in Indonesia. And why wouldn't she be a US citizen? Her mother was certainly old enough at the time she was born.

    There's nothing in the Constitution that defines "natural born citizen", or that says anything about "exclusive of citizenship/loyalty to any other nation". And citizenship does not necessarily mean loyalty. Why would Obama have any loyalty to Kenya, just because, as a minor, he technically had citizenship there?

    No, there's no doubt that Ahnold is not eligible.

    I don't know about his college records, but he wouldn't have to 'seal' them. They'd be protected by privacy laws. Ditto for any hospital records. Technically, the hospital cannot even admit that he, or his mother, was even a patient there.

    As to what does he have to hide, he doesn't have to have anything to hide to not want to submit to a witch hunt. Just based on principle, he shouldn't give in to wackos.

    5 years ago
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  369. ramjet767,

    Says the master of endless drivel.

    My guess is that the FBI has already done a background check on Obama. Of course, they aren't going to tell you that.

    And I used to have a TSCW clearance, so the FBI (and USAF) already knows about my early life.

    I've done a lot of thinking about this. It's you, and most other birthers, who haven't done any thinking. Most of you just regurgitate the barf you've been fed, without any thought at all. Just like an email chain letter. "Wow, I believe that! I'll send it to all of my friends." Completely credulous of anything that supports your prejudices.

    "His grandmother said she was at his birth in Kenya." Fraud

    "Polarik says the images were doctored." Another fraud

    "The CoLB was issued in 1961 to people who weren't born in Hawaii." Ignorant BS

    All you bozos are doing with this crap is convincing people that those opposing BO's policies are ignorant ranting lunatics.

    5 years ago
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  370. Twitchy,

    I repeat. Out of work. Need money.

    Find and produce for interview an eye witness to Obama's birth and collect $10,000+.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101892

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  371. jwelborn3434,

    And the hospital records are "Protected Health Information" under HIPAA. So there would be another series of lawsuits, and more rumor mongering.

    And I haven't said anything about vetting. There's no need to vet anything. The CoLB has been verified by Hawaii, who issued it.

    5 years ago
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  372. Twitchy said, "And I haven't said anything about vetting."

    ANS: That is obvious since all you do is make statements with no citations.

    No one in any official capacity ever vetted Obama. He's hid behind lawyers and legal technicalities to get where he is, hiding his records without his eligibility being vetted. Congress vetted McCain but not Obama. Political discrimination or racial discrimination, take you pick. That unequal protection under the law of the land is a main charge in the lawsuit, Kerchner vs Obama & Congress.

    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/

    Twitchy said, "The CoLB has been verified by Hawaii, who issued it."

    ANS: Not true ... and you know it. Prove that statement.

    Obama is not a natural born citizen of the USA because his father was not a U.S. citizen. Law of Nations, Vattel, 1758 in French 1797 in English, Chapter 19, Section 212.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/USC/Vattel.html

    http://www.birthers.org

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  373. ramjet767,

    What WND doesn't point out, and hopes you're too stupid to notice, is that BO's CoLB says that he was born in Honolulu. If he had been born outside of Hawaii, the CoLB would state that.

    As for "questionable image", as I have said before, WND had experts look at the images, and they found nothing questionable about them at all.

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73214

    "that his Hawaii birth certificate is a forgery – a now discredited claim –"

    "A separate WND investigation into Obama's birth certificate utilizing forgery experts also found the document to be authentic. The investigation also revealed methods used by some of the bloggers to determine the document was fake involved forgeries, in that a few bloggers added text and images to the certificate scan that weren't originally there."

    5 years ago
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  374. Twitchy,

    And if you don't like Vattel's definition written in 1758 and used by the founders of our country and framers of the constitution, try an essay and analysis based on the English language meaning of the words and term, natural born citizen. Read these and think. Have you read the legal treatise, the preeminent legal treatise of the latter half of the 18th century and first half of the 19th century ... a legal book used by Ben Franklin, George Washington, and John Jay to govern our new nation. You say you think. Well read Vattel and read these essays first, then think, then speak.

    http://www.greschak.com/essays/natborn/index.htm

    http://www.thebirthers.org/USC/Vattel.html

    http://www.birthers.org

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  375. ramjet767,

    Like you do anything except cut and paste from wacko websites.

    5 years ago
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  376. Twitchy,

    I repeat. Out of work. Need money.

    Find and produce for interview an eye witness to Obama's birth and collect $10,000+.

    http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=101892

    http://www.thebirthers.org/OPED/eds.html

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  377. Twitchy makes statements all the time he cannot prove or cite a source. Then he changes the subject. A Saul Alinsky debating tactic taught in ACORN classes.

    Twitchy said, "The CoLB has been verified by Hawaii, who issued it."

    ANS: Not true ... and you know it. Prove that statement.

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  378. ramjet767,

    And your source, and the source for most of your wacko websites, for almost anything is WND. And the buck stops there.

    Try http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html. Has the State of Hawaii ever claimed that they didn't issue it? Has anyone ever asked them if they have a record of issuing a CoLB to BO? I wouldn't think that info was protected by privacy laws.

    Oh, for sreinke, the article also includes a statement from Eugene Volokh on the natural-born citizen issue. He's certainly more credible than "Mario Apuzzo, Esq.".

    So far, the only even remotely reasonable concerns have been presented by jwelborn3434. The rest of this garbage is typical fringer conspiracy theory nonsense. Consider this: none of the 50 states, nor Congress, who have the responsibility for vetting candidates, has raised any concern about the matter.

    5 years ago
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  379. There is an often stated assertion that Obama was vetted as a candidate and as a member of the Senate and/or his previous elected positions he was subjected to security checks.

    I have never seen any proof that either assertion has any validity.

    Show me where responsibility and accountability for vetting of a candidate for ANY elected office is mandated or requirements DEFINED.

    As to security/background checks, the only elected officials REQUIRED to submit to them (including POTUS), are members of the intelligence committees which did not include Obama. And, POTUS is granted access by virtue of his position.

    5 years ago
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  380. Twitchy,

    Spin, twist, obfuscate and deceive. You do it over and over. The link you posted does not back up your statement. It does not say the digital image of the online CoLB is verified. Because they never said it. Nor has Obama himself said it.

    Also when you quoted Volokh, you forget to point out what Volokh said. He said, "Even if a person is born outside the United States, courts have ruled any child born to at least one U.S. citizen is a U.S. citizen, Volokh said."

    You know full well the issue for the office of the presidency is not whether Obama is a U.S. citizen, it is whether he is a "natural born citizen" of the U.S.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/OPED/eds.html

    I have come to believe that you are simply a paid operative, or an ACORN volunteer, posting here to spread dis-information and mis-information and engage in conversational hypnosis to try and fool as many people as you can.

    Truth and time reveal all. The Constitution will prevail and Obama will be placed on the scrap heap of history as a corrupt Chicago politician who reached the pinnacle of power briefly by deceit and lies and fraud.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    P.S. Did you apply for the job with ICE yet? They need a lot of people down along the southern border to help recognize fraudulent documentation. With your documentation expertise you should rise quickly through the ranks and have a good career with them. With all you claim to know about documents, there is no need to be unemployed ... as you claim you are. Unless of course, that story is as phony as some of your other statements here.

    5 years ago
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  381. Twitchy,

    HIPAA does not prevent hospital records from release in response to a subpoena. Lets see if any records are examined in the pending litigation.

    As to the cases against the FEC and the Democratic party, the issue in question is different. You have to admit that both should have checked the qualifications of the candidates. Even if the published documents are true and correct, if they were not looked at by election officials prior to the election then a mistake was made. We know issues with the process exist since Roger Calero was allowed on the ballot in may states, even though he is admittedly not a natural born citizen.

    The cases against the FEC and the Democratic party rest not on Obama's citizen ship status, but whether anyone actually bothered to check.

    5 years ago
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  382. ramjet767,

    "Spin, twist, obfuscate and deceive. You do it over and over."

    You seem to be talking about yourself, and the fringe websites you link to.

    You also missed the relevant quote "Any person born in the U.S. automatically is a “natural born citizen,” said University of California Los Angeles law professor Eugene Volokh." That's backed up by United States v. Wong Kim Ark.

    You are the one (re-)posting dis/mis-information. I've come to the conclusion that you're one of those people who forwards every email chain letter you get to your entire address book, without checking to see if it's really true. How about it? Is Craig Shergold still trying to collect enough business cards to get into the Guinness World Book of Records before he dies of cancer?

    While Obama may end up on the scrap heap of history, this isn't the issue that's going to do it.

    5 years ago
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  383. jwelborn3434,

    I have found one problem with using the information on the original BC to verify. My local hospital only maintains birth records for 20 years. It seems likely that that's true most places. So, even if his BC gives the hospital where he was born, there may be no way to verify it.

    And the wackiness will just go on and on and on....

    5 years ago
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  384. Twitchy,

    You may be right, I'll be satisfied if the court even reviews the available records though.

    5 years ago
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  385. Twitchy,

    Obama has never proven that he was not born in Kenya. The president of the most powerful nation in the world is deceiving our nation. The United States. Remember that one?

    I keep getting updates in my mailbox. You have been insulting people for a long, long time on this site. I hope you are not drawing unemployment while you harrass serious American citizens. Liberals always slop over the rules to come to the conclusion that is easiest or the one they desire.

    5 years ago
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  386. Twitch cites,

    "Any person born in the U.S. automatically is a “natural born citizen,” said University of California Los Angeles law professor Eugene Volokh." That's backed up by United States v. Wong Kim Ark.

    Reply:

    False. Not true. The person quoted by Twitchy is wrong as is his misleading statement as to what Wong Kim Ark decided. Wong Kim Ark ruled that the person in that case was a "citizen at birth", not a "natural born citizen". 14th Amendment Citizenship at Birth is not the same as Article II natural born citizenship.

    Minor vs Happersett defined who a "natural born citizen" is without any doubt.

    http://people.mags.net/tonchen/birthers.htm#ref04

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  387. langdonakn,

    "Obama has never proven that he was not born in Kenya."

    So you don't think that an official document stating that he was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, means anything? And does ANYONE have ANY evidence that he WAS born in Kenya. Can you prove that you weren't born in Kenya? What if nobody believes you, no matter what proof you present?

    "You have been insulting people for a long, long time on this site. I hope you are not drawing unemployment while you harrass serious American citizens."

    I haven't been harassing serious American citizens. I've been harassing nutballs, fruitcakes and fringer conspiracy theorists. You know, birthers. What can you do with people whose brains are concrete, who ignore, distort and make up the facts, except insult and make fun of them. It's either that, or kill them, and killing them, while good for society, has other drawbacks. Ask jwelborn3434.

    "Liberals always slop over the rules to come to the conclusion that is easiest or the one they desire."

    "Pot, meet kettle."

    5 years ago
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  388. ramjet767,

    Volokh didn't mention US v. Wong Kim Ark. That comes from actually reading the case. If you actually read what you link to, you would have seen that Minor vs Happersett left doubts as to who a "natural born citizen" is. However, English common law, as described in US v. Wong Kim Ark, leaves no doubt as to the matter, despite quibbles by others about the difference between "subject" and "citizen". I don't see any difference, strictly in this context.

    5 years ago
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  389. According to the press, linked to by Twitchy:

    http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/11/obama_hawaaianborn_citizen_for.html

    the statutory authority for certifying Obama's place of birth, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, has "personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record".

    This settles the matter factually, and legally. He is a U.S. citizen by virtue of his birth in Hawaii.

    Unless... you think Fukino is part of conspiracy?

    If you think so, or otherwise feel Fukino is mistaken then the burden of proof is on you to show evidence that he was born elsewhere.

    Now, we know that you have no such evidence otherwise you would be waving it from the roof-tops.

    Its time to put up or shut up, as they say (though it appears from the evidence that there is no chance you will do either).

    Have a nice day 'patriots'.

    5 years ago
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  390. Twitchy's a classic Constitution Oborter and Saul Alinsky disciple.

    Saul Alinsky's rule #5, ridicule your opponents.

    http://www.geocities.com/WallStreet/8925/alinsky.htm

    Twitchy, if that shoe fits you and your modus operandi, and it appears it does, keep wearing it.

    ---------------------------------------------

    The Birthers

    We are the Birthers, we are those who are under attack by the Mainstream Media, the once bastions of truth, have become the purveyors of cheap words. They want to mock us by giving us a label to discredit and marginalize us. This is nothing new, when people have no direction they attack those who do.

    Labeling and ridiculing the opposition is a tactic of the communist union organizer Saul Alinsky which he detailed in his book, "Rules for Radicals". Specifically that tactic is Rule #5. Obama is the grandmaster of Alinsky smear tactics and ridicule. He learned it well when he worked as a "community organizer" studying Alinsky the father of "community organizing". A community organizer is simply a euphemism for a leader and trainer of radical agitators and street type demonstrations.

    Lenin and Stalin had the “Bourgeois,” Hitler had the “Untermenschen,” Pol Pot had the “Intelligentsia,” and now Obama has the “Birthers.” People like this have always needed someone to blame for their own inadequacies, a scapegoat for their failures.

    They expect us to revere their writings and status as mainstream reporting, they want us to fold like little children being scolded by the teacher. They are blind to their own impotence, so we accept their challenge and feel that it is best and fair that we give them a name too. They lost the right to be called reporters, for they no longer report, they have become distorters of truth.

    We accept their name, the Birthers for wanting to give rebirth to that which we as Americans hold dear. To return the favor of giving us a name in which we can find a common identity, we in turn give them a name that must be our polarizing opposites, "the O-Borters." For they are seeking to abort the fabric that has held America together, the Constitution of the United States of America.

    The fact that we were given a name by our adversaries means that we are not going to go away soon, so it is best that you hear from us, exactly what is that we are seeking.

    We seek strict adherence to the Constitution of the United States of America, regardless to the momentary passions of the body politic.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    -------------------------------------------

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  391. I would be willing to bet that Twitchy, along with most Obama supporters, would STILL support him as POTUS even it is PROVEN that Obama is ineligible to hold the office to which he has been elected.

    Then, if Obama IS removed from office and/or prevented from running for a second term in 2012, their fury will be directed not at the perpetrators of the fraud, but at those who choose to honor the rule of law and the Constitution.

    5 years ago
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  392. ramjet767,

    Gee, thanks. Another bunch of idiots to try to straighten out.

    5 years ago
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  393. ramjet767,

    You're displaying typical fringer psychology: "Anyone who disagrees with us, and uses facts to show we're wrong, is part of the conspiracy".

    If you had facts, or proof of anything, it's not evident to anyone who isn't already on the fringe.

    Enquirer,

    You might be right, but I'm not an Obama supporter, just like you're not a supporter of the rule of law and the Constitution. Of course, the lynch mob never wants to hear that they're not supporting the rule of law, and they're usually willing to ride roughshod over those who actually do.

    5 years ago
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  394. Twitchy,

    You are totally wrong on the Wong Kim Ark case. Please provide the quote from decision in the Wong Kim Ark case which backs up your words. Show me in the that SCOTUS decision that he was declared a "natural born" citizen of the USA. Those two extra adjectives are important and you keep forgetting them.

    You also misquote Minor vs Happersett. Summarizing, the case clearly said that a person born in the USA to parents who are citizens of the USA are "natural born citizens", of which there is no doubt. And it goes on to say that being born of only one citizen of the USA that there is doubt as to whether that person is a "natural born citizen".

    All your citations say who is a "citizen" of the USA, Wong Kim Ark. Being born in Hawaii would make Obama at most a statutory citizen at birth of the USA under the 14th Amendment. He would not be a "natural born" citizen under Article II to Constitutional standards.

    Also the 1939 Elg case at the Supreme Court also confirms that a person born in the USA to two citizen parents is a "natural born citizen".

    Any other set of facts of nature at the time of birth lead to doubt if the person is a natural born citizen.

    Again, it is not who is a "citizen" of the USA, or a "citizen at birth", but who is a "natural born citizen" of the USA as per the intent of the founders of our country and framers of the constitution to constitutional standards. And using prior Supreme Court decisions there is doubt for the facts surrounding Obama's circumstances at birth, the number one being that his father was not a U.S. citizen, nor was he even an immigrant to the USA, nor was he even a permanent resident of the USA.

    Senators and House members and Governors can be merely citizens of the USA but the President and Commander-in-Chief must be a "natural born" citizen. What those extra two adjectives mean is the meat of the debate. And sooner or later the Supreme Court will provide the answer. And then Obama will be on the scrap heap of history as an impostor, fraud, and deceiver.

    http://www.thebirthers.org/OPED/NatrualBornCitizenshipDefined.pdf

    http://www.thebirthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  395. Maybe a short video will help those reading over the shoulders:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/QEnaAZrYqQI&hl=en&fs=1

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  396. Do you really want this controversy to go away?

    Here's how to make that happen.

    Join us in our quest for Obama's hidden documentation and a definitive answer regarding what is meant by "natural born citizen" and its impact on this situation. If our doubts are baseless, giving up what is requested will make undeniable what a waste of time, energy and money it was.

    That is the ONLY way this issue will be resolved.

    The only possible reasons I can see for allowing this to go on are arrogance or fear of discovery.

    5 years ago
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  397. Twitchy,

    I missed a link somewhere. Where was your source for the English common law used in the Wong Kim Ark case?

    5 years ago
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  398. ramjet767,

    It's in the precedents in the majority opinion. According to English common law, being born in the country makes you "natural-born" even if both your parents are aliens.

    They also quote from US precedent: "In Dred Scott v. Sandford (1857) 19 How. 393, Mr. Justice Curtis said: 'The first section of the second article of the constitution uses the language, 'a natural-born citizen.' It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.' Id. 576. And to this extent no different opinion was expressed or intimated by any of the other judges."

    Read through the actual case.

    http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=169&invol=649

    And you said "Minor vs Happersett defined who a 'natural born citizen' is without any doubt." But, as your quote proves, there IS doubt.

    Stop believing what you want to believe, and look at the facts.

    5 years ago
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  399. Enquirer,

    Yeah, sure it will go away. Like there aren't still people convinced of some wacko theory or other about Lincoln's assassination.

    jwelborn3434,

    See previous reply to ramjet767.

    5 years ago
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  400. English common law mentioned in the Wong case dealt with "subjects" not "citizens". Subjects can never become a President nor a King. Again you are mixing apples and oranges.

    http://countryfirst.bravehost.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=3186

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  401. Twitch said: "Minor vs Happersett left doubts as to who a "natural born citizen" is." And those doubts apply to Obama's birth circumstances since his father was not a U.S. citizen, no even an immigrant, nor even a permanent resident of the USA.

    http://www.obamacitizenshipfacts.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  402. Twitchy,

    I'm sure you're right. There will always be doubters and I MAY still be one of them.

    But, once documentation is released and a ruling is rendered on the MERITS of the case, legal remedies will have been exhausted and the doubters will either be vindicated or quashed.

    5 years ago
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  403. Twitchy,

    After following your link and reading the case, I have a question. What determines who are "born during and within their hostile occupation of part of the king's dominions?" Does a declared state of war have to exist, or would simply being within the borders of a nation illegally suffice? Not saying it is relevant to the Obama case but I would like to know what source material you have. It could make a big difference in modern issues with illegal aliens.

    5 years ago
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  404. Again, maybe this short video will help Twitchy and those reading over the shoulders:

    http://www.youtube.com/v/QEnaAZrYqQI&hl=en&fs=1

    Since Congress ignored the pleas of these people and hundreds of thousands of other about investigating Obama's exact citizenship status, while paying attention to similar pleas about McCain, the Kerchner et al vs. Obama & Congress et al was necessitated and once it reaches the Supreme Court it will resolve the issue of Article II natural born citizenship to constitution standards, once and for all. At that point in time Obama will be relegated to an impostor and usurper and thrown out of office by SCOTUS and "We the People" acting in concert to protect the Constitution and the Constitution Republic. Congress is already moving in the right direction with HR 1503.

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  405. 5 years ago
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  406. ramjet767,

    English common law mentioned in the Wong case dealt with the meaning of "natural-born".

    Of course, you can't acknowledge that, because it blows your entire argument away. But you can be sure BO's lawyers will argue that.

    Since US v. Wong Kim Ark, there shouldn't be any doubt, since it would supersede Minor v. Happersett.

    Congress paid attention to McCain because there was a real controversy. They've ignored the Obama case because it's an obvious manufactured controversy.

    5 years ago
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  407. jwelborn3434,

    That's an interesting thought, but, while I've seen it mentioned before, I don't have any relevant sources. Though I think I recall reading about a Supreme Court case in the '70s, against Texas, that decided that the children of illegals had to be provided with a public education. If I remember correctly, that was part of the argument against, and was rejected by the court.

    I do think that we need to clarify the 14th amendment, either via legislation or by another amendment, so that "and subject to the jurisdiction thereof," is interpreted as "at least one parent is in the country legally", meaning a citizen or a permanent resident alien. I don't think the children of illegals nor the children of guest workers should become citizens just by being born here. Times are different than when the 14th amendment was conceived.

    5 years ago
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  408. ramjet767,

    "An open letter to Obama:"

    So, where does he say anything about the BC?

    5 years ago
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  409. Twitchy,

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2009/06/24/why-do-both-obamas-state-department-and-the-senate-require-two-us-citizen-parents-for-those-born-abroad-to-attain-natural-born-citizen-status/

    smrstrauss Says:

    June 23, 2009 at 10:19 am

    Re: “The dual nationality issue is NOT a conspiracy theory. It’s a genuine legal question. Obama admits he was a dual citizen at birth. Eligibility advocates have simply questioned whether that makes him ineligible to be President under Article 2 Section 1 Clause 5 of the US Constitution.”

    The dual nationality issue is just plain silly. It relies on the mythology that what a foreign country does affects the US law.

    [Ed. You are wrong on multiple counts. It's US law which guides us here. US law requires the President to be a "natural born citizen". If a person is born as a citizen or a foreign country, admits as much and cites that foreign country's law himself at his own web site as controlling his birth status while that very same person is a Constitutional lawyer who attended Harvard Law and who taught law as a distinguished professor then perhaps you should consider the issue is more complex than you have erroneously suggested. Obama's web site states that his birth status was "governed" (which is the actual term used at his web site) by Great Britain. Perhaps you might be so humble as to acknowledge that Obama knows a hell of alot more about Constitutional law than you do.

    Notice that Obama is not claiming what you claim at his web site. Obama states unequivocally that his birth status was Governed by Great Britain. He doesn't say it was governed by the USA. Why don't you go ask him to change the language and explain to Obama that he doesn't understand the law. You are playing word games but the ruse doesn't stand up to scrutiny. The way you've worded your reply is no different than a circular accusation, it's the same concept as asking somebody if they still beat their wife. No answer will suffice.

    The proper way to analyze your remark is to say that if the granting of citizen status by a foreign country were arbitrary, ie North Korea granted citizenship to Jeb Bush in order to thwart him from running for President - that would never fly, but the plain truth is Obama's father was never a US citizen and so while that wouldn't stop Obama from gaining US citizenship, it would certainly prevent him from being President since he can never be a natural born citizen according to my best understanding of Constitutional law, the framers intent and precedent of past Presidents.

    I admit there are differing opinions but while the issue has never been definitively decided by SCOTUS, it was in fact SCOTUS in the Minor case who stated that as to people in Obama's shoes - those born in the US of non-citizen parents - there are doubts as to whether such persons are natural born citizens.

    Also note that the argument you suggest was never brought up in the SCOTUS case Minor vs Happersett - again, the most on point dicta in SCOTUS history which states unequivocally that there are "doubts" as to whether a person born in the US whose parents weren't citizens could be considered nbc.

    Furthermore, the issue is far from silly since the only directly on point language we have from SCOTUS on this issue is the Minor case where they themselves raised these doubts. If it's silly then blame SCOTUS, they could have said this was silly but instead they agreed that it's serious enough to raise doubts. And also note that they didn't need to decide the nbc issue for that particular case, but they thought it was important enough to mention these doubts regardless.

    Think about that before you respond.

    I will also warn you that I do not find your comment to be intellectually honest. Feel free to reply, but drop the sarcasm and just state your case. There's nothing silly about this. I've printed your comment in its entirety. But if you use condescending language again, you will not be extended further courtesy.]

    Say that Mexico were to grant all children born in the areas of the USA that were once Mexico citizenship in Mexico. That makes them all dual nationals.

    [Ed. As stated above, various scenarios as you have suggested do not have the same legal effect as the three ages old paths to citizenship:

    JUS SOLI - by the soil

    JUS SANGUINIS - by the blood

    NATIONALIZATION - by law

    These are the paths discussed in the Dept. of State Foreign Affairs Manual. They are commonly accepted universal paths to citizenship having been considered and respected through the ages. They are not wild hypothetical possibilities. Obama's father was never a US citizen. There is nothing hypothetical about that. ]

    Does Mexico passing a law make these children less loyal than a child whom Mexico did not claim as a Mexican? No. Does it mean that the children want to be Mexicans? No. Does it affect their citizenship under US law? No, if they were born in the USA, nothing any other government can do can take that away.

    But, can the fact that a foreign country grants dual nationality affect the “Natural Born” status? No way. That would still mean that a foreign country could meddle in the USA and make children who would normaly have been eligible no longer eligible.

    It is a well-established practice where dual nationality is concerned, that the US ignores the foreign law and deals with our citizens in every way as citizens.

    [Ed. Not true. In the Foreign Affairs manual it clearly states that dual nationality causes problems for the US Government:

    7 FAM 1111.4 Dual or Multiple Nationality

    (TL:CON-64; 11-30-95)

    a. U.S. nationals and citizens may possess dual or multiple nationality and owe

    allegiance to one or several foreign states. They may even have identified themselves

    more closely with the foreign state than with the United States, thereby calling into question the propriety of extending protection to them. Since each country establishes its own law of nationality, dual nationality cannot be eliminated, may result in confusion, and could complicate the ability of the U.S. Government to protect its nationals/citizens.

    b. The United States has no special arrangements with individual countries to “permit”

    dual nationality. U.S. Government policy toward dual nationality is the same regardless of

    other nationalities involved.

    c. While a person who has dual or multiple nationality resides in the United States, the

    right of the United States to claim his or her allegiance is held to be paramount of the right of the other countries of which he or she may be a national. Conversely, while a person who has dual nationality resides abroad in a foreign country of which he or she also is a national, the right of that country to claim his or her allegiance is paramount to that of the United States.

    d. It has been the policy of the U.S. Government, when the occasion arises, to

    intercede on behalf of a person in another country who owes allegiance both to that

    country and the United States, when the facts clearly indicate that the person has been

    detained, harassed, or molested by the authorities of the foreign country of which he or she is also a national.

    e. The circumstances of a person’s conduct abroad may very well be a determining

    factor in considering the extent to which such protection should be granted. In the case of a dual national living in the foreign country of which he or she is also a national, the

    circumstances may restrict, to a great extent, a national’s ability to receive the protection and consular services of the U.S. Government.]

    In fact, when the British took nationalized US citizens, whom they considered to be still be British subjects, and forced them to work on their ships, we went to war in 1812.

    [Ed. Completely irrelevant analogy. Those people were US citizens who were kidnapped. Please also note that nationalized citizens cannot be President hence the analogy not being relevant. But also take note again of the language in Section C above

    c. While a person who has dual or multiple nationality resides in the United States, the right of the United States to claim his or her allegiance is held to be paramount of the right of the other countries of which he or she may be a national. Conversely, while a person who has dual nationality resides abroad in a foreign country of which he or she also is a national, the right of that country to claim his or her allegiance is paramount to that of the United States.

    ]

    But, what if the US citizen had a foreign father and the dual nationality is the result of his father’s citizenship, plus the fact that the father was not a US citizen? If, as the Supreme Court has ruled in the Wong case, a US Natural Born citizen is someone who is born in the USA, then the fact that his father was not a citizen PLUS the dual nationality does not change that at all.

    [Ed. You've completely misquoted the holding in the SCOTUS case of Wog Kim Ark. The Wong Kim Ark case does NOT say that a US Natural Born Citizen is someone born in the USA. Nowhere in the case does it say that. You are absolutely mistaken without question. The Wong Kim Ark case says that a person born in the US is a "citizen" - and only if that person is subject to the jurisdiction of the US.

    Furthermore, the relevance of Wong Kim Ark can also be further reduced since the court stated that a determining factor was whether the parents were permanently domiciled in the US. Obama's father was not permamanently domiciled in the US so Wong Kim Ark shouldn't even be controlling as to this fact pattern. This is a point which needs to be remembered and brought up again and again. It is certainly a neglected fact of that holding and one which Obama supporters have failed to discuss and acknowledge.

    In any case, the holding does not say such a person is a natural born citizen for purposes of Article 1 Section 2 Clause 5. From now on, if you choose to post on this blog, I will request that when you refer to a SCOTUS case, you include direct quotes from that case and citations. There is no quote or citation in the Wong case as you have suggested. Nada.]

    5 years ago
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  410. Twitchy,

    At this point I can only say you are deliberately lying about the Kim Wong Ark case. Kim Wong Ark says the person was a citizen by their decision, not a "natural born citizen".

    The decision:

    Held: In a 6-2 decision, the Court held that under the Fourteenth Amendment, a child born in the United States of parents of foreign descent who, at the time of the child's birth are subjects of a foreign power but who have a permanent domicile and residence in the United States and are carrying on business in the United States, and are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity under a foreign power, and are not members of foreign forces in hostile occupation of United States territory, becomes a citizen of the United States at the time of birth.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  411. Twitchy,

    You bore me at this point. Your deception and circular reason is showing. You are a waste of bytes and bits. You were sent here merely to scroll the blog with your drivel and post wrong, misleading, mis and dis-information.

    You're unemployed and maybe cannot afford renting a movie at BlockBuster. So make some popcorn and watch this video for free ... three times.

    http://www.youtube.com/v/QEnaAZrYqQI&hl=en&fs=1

    Since Congress ignored the pleas of these people and hundreds of thousands of other about investigating Obama's exact citizenship status, while paying attention to similar pleas about McCain, the Kerchner et al vs. Obama & Congress et al was necessitated and once it reaches the Supreme Court it will resolve the issue of Article II natural born citizenship to constitution standards, once and for all. At that point in time Obama will be relegated to an impostor and usurper and thrown out of office by SCOTUS and "We the People" acting in concert to protect the Constitution and the Constitution Republic. Congress is already moving in the right direction with HR 1503.

    Then go do some reading at two attorneys sites for what is coming your team's way:

    http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/

    http://puzo1.blogspot.com/

    Have a nice life after your God per Newsweek is dethroned ... and I hope you find a job other than working this blog.

    http://www.birthers.org/

    RJ

    5 years ago
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  412. ramjet767,

    "Your deception and circular reason is showing. You are a waste of bytes and bits. You were sent here merely to scroll the blog with your drivel and post wrong, misleading, mis and dis-information."

    You're talking about yourself again. Isn't that the perfect description of how you, and most of the other birthers, got here, and what your purpose was, and what you do? WND speaks, and you obey.

    Despite the drivel you cut and pasted, US v. Wong Kim Ark discussed at length the meaning of "natural-born" in English common law, the acknowledged basis of most of our legal system.

    You are obsessed with your hatred of Obama, and will believe anything that supports that hatred.

    Witch hunt. Lynch mob. Sheeple.

    Chester A. Arthur.

    Mwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

    5 years ago
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  413. ramjet you really sound full of yourself

    i'm surprised your ego hasn't completely eaten you up.

    obama's the president now and we got important things to deal with. He's not going to respect this site at all if people are crying about his damn birth cert.. Crying ain't gonna help the country nor the world.

    5 years ago
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  414. Twitchy,

    I see what you are saying about English common law. Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't a U.S. court still have to rule on whether or not the "natural born subject" portion is applicable to the 0"natural born citizen" provision? I agree that if the Ark case is used as a precedent, that is almost certainly the way the court would rule. However, unless I misread, no actual ruling on that specific issue has been made yet, merely a discussion of legal history.

    5 years ago
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  415. Yeah, that's basically true. There doesn't seem to be much in the way of relevant decisions, but it looks to me as if the discussion in Wong Kim Ark is probably the most exhaustive and relevant, at least that I've seen so far. Vattel's book doesn't seem nearly as relevant as English common law.

    5 years ago
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  416. Lack of decisions is the whole point of the BC issue. It needs to go before SCOTUS so the whole constitutional issue can be decided once and for all.

    Frankly we don't know what the founding fathers were thinking when they put it in the constitution, but we can read their letters to each other. To me it is fairly clear, but it must not be to others for whatever the reason.

    If BO is not eligible, don't you agree, sooner is better then later? If he is eligible, no big deal, the issue will die, and the issue will never come up again in my lifetime because SCOTUS made a ruling.

    5 years ago
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  417. Democracy:

    A government of the masses.

    Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.

    Results in mobocracy.

    Attitude toward property is comunistic-negating property rights.

    Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate. whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.

    Results in demagogism license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

    Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success.

    A certain Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago, had this to say about Democracy: " A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship."

    A democracy is majority rule and is destructive of liberty because there is no law to prevent the majority from trampling on individual rights. Whatever the majority says goes! A lynch mob is an example of pure democracy in action. There is only one dissenting vote, and that is cast by the person at the end of the rope.

    Republic:

    Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.

    Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure.

    Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.

    A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.

    Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.

    Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.

    A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of:

    an executive and

    a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create

    a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their governmental acts and to recognize

    certain inherent individual rights.

    Take away any one or more of those four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and you are drifting into democracy.

    Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic."

    A republic is a government of law under a Constitution. The Constitution holds the government in check and prevents the majority (acting through their government) from violating the rights of the individual. Under this system of government a lynch mob is illegal. The suspected criminal cannot be denied his right to a fair trial even if a majority of the citizenry demands otherwise.

    Difference between Democracy and Republic, in brief:

    Democracy:

    a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority.

    b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.

    Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences

    Republic

    a: a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government.

    b: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.

    Democracy and Republic are often taken as one of the same thing, but there is a fundamental difference. Whilst in both cases the government is elected by the people, in Democracy the majority rules according to their whims, whilst in the Republic the Government rule according to law. This law is framed in the Constitution to limit the power of Government and ensuring some rights and protection to Minorities and individuals.

    The difference between Republic and Righteous Republic is that in the Republic the Government rules according to the law set up by men, in the Righteous Republic the law is the Law of God. Only in the Righteous Republic it can truly be said "One nation under God" for it is governed under commandments of the only One True God and there is no pluralism of religions.

    Autocracy declares the divine right of kings; its authority can not be questioned; its powers are arbitrarily or unjustly administered.

    Mobocracy: 1. Political control by a mob. 2. The mass of common people as the source of political control.

    5 years ago
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  418. There is still one question that makes no sense to me at all. Why is Obama spending hundreds of thousands of dollars having law firms (yes plural) fight the release of every document?

    The only document released is a COLB. Why not release the long form? He could do that and it would cost less the $100. Why keep it hidden?

    College Records - locked up. Why?

    The papers he has written - locked up. Why?

    Even his records as a public servant in Ill. have been locked up. Why?

    He is so transparent his history in this country is invisible. Why?

    These actions only bring more questions and concerns about what is in these records and what is he trying to hide. Sooner or later it will get out, what ever it is.

    WE THE PEOPLE need to know who he is before it is too late!

    5 years ago
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  419. freedomfighter4theplanet,

    You've spammed us with that before, here and elsewhere. Do you have any thoughts of your own?

    5 years ago
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  420. sreinke,

    What makes you think he's "spending hundreds of thousands of dollars having law firms (yes plural) fight the release of every document?" How much did the Bush campaign spend on legal fees after the 2000 & 2004 elections?

    In most of the cases, all the lawyers would have to do is ask the court to respect privacy laws.

    He hasn't released the long form because Hawaii no longer issues copies of the long form. All they issue now is the Certification.

    5 years ago
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  421. Twitchy

    "He hasn't released the long form because Hawaii no longer issues copies of the long form. All they issue now is the Certification."

    That is a flat out lie! They still issue the long form, it just takes a little longer to get! Now who is spamming us! It doesn't matter how often you post this garbage, it IS NOT TRUE!

    I also put part of the blame on SCOTUS for the BC issue. When Phil Burg filed the first suite, they should have taken up the case for clarification. Saying the Senate should vet the candidates is a farce also! John McCain taking it to the Senate to his buddies to verify his citizenship does not hold much weight in my books. He also should have taken it to SCOTUS for clarification because of his relationship with the Senate.

    But with BO, the whole thing should have been brought before SCOTUS by the DNC long before the elections. He didn't even bring his own eligibility issue before the senate, even when there were law suites filed! Now if the question is not addressed, it could end up a civil war, God forbid...

    And yes TWITCHY, it is that big an issue!!! Why don't you read ramjet767's posts. They make more sense then anything you have posted so far.

    5 years ago
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  422. sreinke,

    "The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

    The department only issues "certifications" of live births, and that is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii, she said."

    http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html

    I sent her an email asking, among other things, when was the last time they issued a Certificate of Live Birth. We'll see if I get an answer.

    Most birthers treat this as some kind of religious issue. Facts don't matter to them, they make them up as they go along. Most of what ramjet767 posts is blatant propaganda. It's like reading "proof" that evolution is a sham. They twist, distort, ignore, and invent facts to support their religious dogma.

    If it ends up as a civil war, it'll be damn short.

    5 years ago
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  423. " Twitchy 53 minutes ago

    Warning Report Abuse

    sreinke,

    "The state Department of Health no longer issues copies of paper birth certificates as was done in the past, said spokeswoman Janice Okubo.

    The department only issues "certifications" of live births, and that is the "official birth certificate" issued by the state of Hawaii, she said."

    http://www.starbulletin.com/columnists/kokualine/20090606_kokua_line.html"

    More to the point:

    The legally responsible official for making determinations of birth, Dr. Chiyome Fukino, Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, has certified that he has seen the original birth certificate showing Obama's Hawaii birth.

    See:

    http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf

    This means that Fukino has verified that Obama was born in United States, and is thus an American citizen eligible to President independent of any other consideration.

    The matter is settled in fact and in law.

    The burden is thus upon anyone challenging Obama's legitimacy to present evidence that he was not born in Hawaii. So far none has been presented, so we must conclude that none exists.

    5 years ago
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  424. Twitchy - "It's like reading "proof" that evolution is a sham"

    Evolution isn't a sham, it is a religion. But that is another issue all together.

    Warning Report Abuse

    careysub

    Why don't you read what Dr.Chiyome Fukino said!!!

    "Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

    This is earth shattering!!! I think just about everyone has seen this masterful release! They have it on file but give no information about the certificate or what is on it. They have one on file. Obama refers to one in Kenya. Regardless, it does not prove he is eligible. His father is not, was not, and never will be a US Citizen!!! He did not live in the US for any period of time. And Obama admits he was under British Law when he was born!!!

    Somehow I find it a stretch to say the founding fathers would say he is a "Natural Born Citizen" while he is a British citizen of Kenya at birth. By law he is a citizen of the US, but that does not make him a "Natural Born Citizen." His COLB in Hawaii may in fact prove he is a Citizen. I don't think this has ever been the issue. This is why SCOTUS needs to take this case and define NBC.

    5 years ago
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  425. Twitchy - "It's like reading "proof" that evolution is a sham"

    Evolution isn't a sham, it is a religion. But that is another issue all together.

    Warning Report Abuse

    careysub

    Why don't you read what Dr.Chiyome Fukino said!!!

    "Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

    This is earth shattering!!! I think just about everyone has seen this masterful release! They have it on file but give no information about the certificate or what is on it. They have one on file. Obama refers to one in Kenya. Regardless, it does not prove he is eligible. His father is not, was not, and never will be a US Citizen!!! He did not live in the US for any period of time. And Obama admits he was under British Law when he was born!!!

    Somehow I find it a stretch to say the founding fathers would say he is a "Natural Born Citizen" while he is a British citizen of Kenya at birth. By law he is a citizen of the US, but that does not make him a "Natural Born Citizen." His COLB in Hawaii may in fact prove he is a Citizen. I don't think this has ever been the issue. This is why SCOTUS needs to take this case and define NBC.

    5 years ago
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  426. Twitchy - "It's like reading "proof" that evolution is a sham"

    Evolution isn't a sham, it is a religion. But that is another issue all together.

    Warning Report Abuse

    careysub

    Why don't you read what Dr.Chiyome Fukino said!!!

    "Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

    This is earth shattering!!! I think just about everyone has seen this masterful release! They have it on file but give no information about the certificate or what is on it. They have one on file. Obama refers to one in Kenya. Regardless, it does not prove he is eligible. His father is not, was not, and never will be a US Citizen!!! He did not live in the US for any period of time. And Obama admits he was under British Law when he was born!!!

    Somehow I find it a stretch to say the founding fathers would say he is a "Natural Born Citizen" while he is a British citizen of Kenya at birth. By law he is a citizen of the US, but that does not make him a "Natural Born Citizen." His COLB in Hawaii may in fact prove he is a Citizen. I don't think this has ever been the issue. This is why SCOTUS needs to take this case and define NBC.

    5 years ago
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  427. Sorry about the double post. Got an error message the first time.

    5 years ago
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  428. careysub,

    I agree that your assertion goes well beyond what was actually said. The only thing actually verified by Dr. Fukino is that Hawaii has a birth certificate on file. Other state officials have interpreted what Dr. Fukino said to mean more, but it was not actually said.

    You cannot simply claim that the statement: “Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures." is semantically equal to "I personally certify that all the data on Sen. Obama's birth certificate has been verified and that it matches in all details the document published by Sen Obama's campaign.

    The latter statement may very well be what Dr. Fukino meant, but it is not what was said.

    It does not good to attack supposition and assumption with supposition and assumption of your own.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  429. Does anyone else find it interesting that the information on this page has been changed in the last 2 weeks?

    http://hawaii.gov/dhhl/applicants/appforms/applyhhl

    When I saved that link, it stated that "certification of live birth" was not accepted as proof native Hawaiian status without verification from other sources. You can find the original wording quoted in other threads.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  430. Gives a person a lot of confidence in Hawaiian online documents. Do COLB's change as easily?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  431. Hey Fellow Honorable Birthers,

    Shouldn't we take what we believe to a larger, more visited forum? Twitchy is not worth the time and effort. I doubt the administration is threatened by anything on this site. The Birthers on this site have a lot of powerful motivation. Does anyone know where we can join forces with others? I know about the Birthers.com. Phil in Georgia has fallen off the radar. What next?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  432. langdonakn,

    Orly Taitz is currently being diverted by a law suite from Phil Burg for her pointing out prior convictions by his staff. Her blog is http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/ She is a Russian born naturalized citizen. She knows where BO is headed because that is what she escaped. She is a fighter. The BC is just a minor part of her law suites. I think she is the real deal. My opinion is Phil was a plant to divert attention and distort the truth. Check out her blog and see what you think.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  433. jwelborn3434,

    I think it's likely that the DHHS website hadn't been brought up to date for several years. Not unusual. But this brought that oversight to someone's attention and got it fixed.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  434. If you attempt to navigate to these comments by the "Front Door" you get:

    "This feedback site is currently inactive. New submissions will not be accepted."

    And can't even see the comments already posted about the birth certificate issue.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  435. sreinke,

    "Evolution isn't a sham, it is a religion. But that is another issue all together."

    Evolution is well-established science. Birtherism is more of a religion. But it makes sense that a birther would think that science was religion.

    Enquirer,

    Yeah, I got that same message when I posted my last message. But the message still posted. I just had to refresh the page to see it.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  436. I think the site is essentially shut down. So much for Open Government that supports free speech.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  437. The purpose of the site was clearly stated on the home page: "How can we strengthen our democracy and promote efficiency and effectiveness by making government more transparent, participatory, and collaborative?"

    As it says on the home page: "The Open Government Dialogue is now closed. Because of your participation, this dialogue has generated a rich collection of ideas that will shape the President’s commitment to making our government more transparent, participatory, and collaborative."

    It never had nothing to do with "Open Government that supports free speech". None of the birther nonsense had anything to do with the legitimate intended purpose of this site.

    Your behavior has been roughly analogous to a group of anti-choice demonstrators running through the halls of a hospital, yelling and screaming, because an email chain letter claimed that one of their staff OBs runs a separate abortion clinic, though nobody knows just where that clinic is supposed to be.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  438. What this site needed was the ability to edit your posts, at least for five minutes after posting. I rephrased one sentence and missed changing one word.

    It should be "It never had anything to do with".

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  439. I posted something supporting Twitchy and it was deleted by a moderator. This site is biased and has turned into a joke.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  440. "So much for Open Government that supports free speech."

    Your constitution entitles you to freedom of speech, it does not require others to listen.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  441. QUOTE by me

    I posted something supporting Twitchy and it was deleted by a moderator. This site is biased and has turned into a joke.

    ENDQUOTE

    Sorry I changed my email address that I receive these notifications to and it changed my username as well (took me a little bit to figure that out) so that I thought the mods deleted my posts.

    But on a more on-topic note:

    the birthers are clowns who want attention and can't stand to see a black president and will do whatever they can to try and make waves. Why not focus on something productive? Why not try and work with what we've got instead of moving backwards?

    Obama was voted on by the majority of people, as McShame was a terrible choice for the rep's and would never get elected as long as there are moral/ethical people living in this country.

    I admit, Obama may not be the greatest president, but he's a lot better than Bush or McCain and we have to understand that no one is perfect. You birthers are simply complainers who won't get anything productive accomplished.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  442. Ha Ha... good stuff Twitchy. I can't believe you respond to every single post. Either you're a guy filled with alot of hate for anyone seeking the truth or you just really need to get a life. I read the e-mails from the site as they come in, but certainly would never have time to run my company and respond to every one. I'm guessing you're on the dole and if Obama is removed, you're worried your food stamps and welfare will go away. And with that in mind, it makes sense why you're so emotional about this thing. Well- keep on fighting the good fight brother... or get a job.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  443. I am not a birther or a republican........

    What I am is an American Independent.......I do not understand why,why, WHY does the president NOT open his records for the people of this country who HE is supposed to SERVE........HE is the one who wanted the most powerful position in the world and HE answers to all voting americans. Yes He won, but why is He not opening the doors of his life.....And fighting so hard to keep them closed. I have read his book and I still haven't a clue as to where he got money for education, much less politics....

    Don't you want to know all about him, like say "Michael Jackson" or "Elvis Presley".........Privacy laws can go right out the window, when we are talking about the "President of the United States"...........Until this issue is cleared up...........He remains "in doubt".......My sons and daughters in the military have been taught to follow the chain of command, but ONLY if there is a legitimate and legal........"COMMANDER"...

    For goodness sake, Its like trusting a car salesman to make a good deal for you..........

    I hope that this "issue" keeps hounding the people, especially the "laughable news media" ..........until we get an answer....We survived "Bill Clinton" and " Richard Nixon".......and we will survive Barry or Barack or whomever................

    5 years ago
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    0 Disagreed
  444. Zero187, I can only repeat what I have said in other threads. I believe that so many people stick with the eligibility issue rather than "try and work with what we've got" because they see it as our nation's only chance.

    If Obama were to be declared ineligible, then everything he has put into effect would be null and void. If the orders and appointments are allowed to remain in effect, then there is very little hope of salvaging our nation.

    I can agree that neither bush was a great president. I believe Senator McCain was a poor choice also, but he might not have done irreparable harm. Obama however has already shown that he will not allow the nation to survive his term in office. His actions so far show that he will not be happy until this country is another bankrupt, socialist / fascist ruin.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  445. Democracy:

    A government of the masses.

    Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.

    Results in mobocracy.

    Attitude toward property is comunistic-negating property rights.

    Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate. whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.

    Results in demagogism license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.

    Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success.

    A certain Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago, had this to say about Democracy: " A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship."

    A democracy is majority rule and is destructive of liberty because there is no law to prevent the majority from trampling on individual rights. Whatever the majority says goes! A lynch mob is an example of pure democracy in action. There is only one dissenting vote, and that is cast by the person at the end of the rope.

    Republic:

    Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.

    Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure.

    Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.

    A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.

    Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.

    Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.

    A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of:

    an executive and

    a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create

    a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their governmental acts and to recognize

    certain inherent individual rights.

    Take away any one or more of those four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and you are drifting into democracy.

    Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic."

    A republic is a government of law under a Constitution. The Constitution holds the government in check and prevents the majority (acting through their government) from violating the rights of the individual. Under this system of government a lynch mob is illegal. The suspected criminal cannot be denied his right to a fair trial even if a majority of the citizenry demands otherwise.

    Difference between Democracy and Republic, in brief:

    Democracy:

    a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority.

    b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.

    Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences

    Republic

    a: a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government.

    b: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.

    Democracy and Republic are often taken as one of the same thing, but there is a fundamental difference. Whilst in both cases the government is elected by the people, in Democracy the majority rules according to their whims, whilst in the Republic the Government rule according to law. This law is framed in the Constitution to limit the power of Government and ensuring some rights and protection to Minorities and individuals.

    The difference between Republic and Righteous Republic is that in the Republic the Government rules according to the law set up by men, in the Righteous Republic the law is the Law of God. Only in the Righteous Republic it can truly be said "One nation under God" for it is governed under commandments of the only One True God and there is no pluralism of religions.

    Autocracy declares the divine right of kings; its authority can not be questioned; its powers are arbitrarily or unjustly administered.

    Mobocracy: 1. Political control by a mob. 2. The mass of common people as the source of political control.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  446. shane,

    Actually, I'm a guy filled with a passion for truth and reason, none of which seems to mean a damn to birthers. I'm also currently unemployed, which gives me the time for this. There aren't that many jobs out there right now.

    However, this doesn't really take that much time. Birthers keep repeating the same nonsense over and over again, so all I really have to do is keep posting the same facts over and over again.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  447. Spammed again by freedomfighter4theplanet.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  448. freedomfighter4theplanet,

    I just noticed the tail end of your spam, purely by accident. So, to you, a Righteous Republic is a religious theocracy?

    Somehow calling a totalitarian dictatorship (which is what your theocracy would be) a Republic smacks of Communism. Or Iran.

    Are you a Muslim?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  449. Twitchy,

    I can tell you are product of the government school system. We live in a Democratic Republic, not a Democracy! Freedomfighter4theplanet keeps posting the same thing over and over trying to educate a few people.

    In a true democracy, the people would vote for everything. We live in a republic so we elect officials to vote for us. Candidates must be vetted by the party they are receiving funds from. The government also needs to vet the candidates for eligibility. The vetting process is for the people so they can determine which legitimate candidate to vote for which will represent their views. Many people doubt if BO was vetted by anyone. Therefore the Grand Juries... which as are assigned to the people (not the courts or government) in the bill of rights.

    The system is broken and the voice of the people is not making it to Washington. Tax Tax Tax. You need to add up all the tax you pay and see if you agree with paying it. Income, Property, Sales, then find out how much tax your employer pays. It all comes out of your pay and the products you buy.

    We the people have a right to know who this man is who is sitting in the oval office. We knew GW's parents. We do not know BHO's parents, and know very little about who he is. It is time to find out.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  450. Twitchy- I don't know if I would call what you are posting "facts", but I suppose it's good that you're doing something that you're passionate about, however misdirected. You seem to be completely on point with the liberal agenda and certainly mesmerized by the hopenosis, have you sent a resume to Obama's people? I would think someone who is willing to work hard (even online) to deter those investigating Obama would certainly have a place in this administration and at the very least, with organizations like ACORN, who are getting millions in grant money. They should certainly be hiring right now. What is your skill set?

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  451. Yeah what's up with freedomfighter's spam?

    I'd agree that republics are better except for the soul fact that they vote for new decisions based upon old laws.

    Old laws aren't always moral, or correct such as the current prohibition of marijuana. If democracy ruled, marijuana would rightfully be legalized but instead we still have a democratic republic. You guys may say "oh big deal who cares about marijuana" but this is a prime example of a freedom that is forgotten and taken away - just like many more potential freedoms that are so close to be taken away.

    When you look at any freedom less than another you are throwing away your deserved rights that you were born with. The right to choose your destiny and be your own person and I don't care about anything else over freedom!!

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  452. Zero187,

    Obama, the senate, and house ripping your freedoms away at break neck speeds. They are passing bills they have not read. Massive tax increases are passed without much comment. This is the "CHANGE" the mighty O has promised. Hope you got what you voted for.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed
  453. I didn't vote. Unfortunately I was not registered as I had just turned 18 when I missed the deadline. My vote would not have made a difference though so I don't feel bad.

    5 years ago
    0 Agreed
    0 Disagreed

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