OpenGov - Open Government Brainstorm

The concept of potential profit or a break-even goal for prisons is toxic to liberty.

There would be no reason not to imprison people.

Besides, it would interfere with their tennis lessons and yoga sessions.

I love Sheriff Joe's idea of making them all wear pink and forcing them to take English speaking classes.

Sheriff Joe for president 2012!!! If we could have more(any) politicians and judges like him our country would be strong and proud again.

unfortunately there are those who may think it cruel and inhumane and want the inmates eating better meals than our own children in schools.

inmates feign illness/cut and mulitate themselves/swallow paper clips, save up their meds and take them all at once, so that they can get a trip to the hospital. taxpayers dollars at work!!! i wish that the taxpayers actually knew how inmates get better dental, health, than the normal everyday people.

I don't care if prisoners are smoking each other's big toes.

There HAS to be a cost to society to throw people in prison. If there isn't, then throwing people in prison will be the first response. It's easy, quick, and now you want to make it free because you have some idea that living behind bars is a better life than it should be.

You are speaking of the value of the prisoners.

I speak of the value of liberty.

cloudscape, I worked for 11 years as a supervisor at the Coffield unit in Texas and trust me when I say, they don't get anything good unless a dirty boss brings it to them.

Our prisons down here used to be self sustaining for years...then David Ruiz screwed it up.

Big Rooster,

I have had almost 10 years...wish that I had spent it working in Texas...Worked jails/prisons, Born in that wonderful state!!!

BigRooster, I think you have something there. I hope Sheriff Joe decides to run for President. I'd back that man in a second. I think he'd make an awesome President.

I totally admire the fact that he does his job, no bolstering, no looking for the pat on the back. He does his job and nothing stops him. He just keeps moving forward.

You can tell he knows the way to get it done and then gets it done.

Thumbs up on Sheriff Joe....

I would suggest however that we take all of the "incorrigibles" out of our prison system (let's start with Texas), and ship them to GITMO after the Messiah closes it. Put guards on the perimeter, throw them a few bones and let them sort out the heirarchy.

An additional benefit is that it would be payback to Castro for shipping us the thousands of mentally ill on the Mariel boat lift years ago.

scratch the guards on the perimeter....

Cloud, they are alway hiring CO's down here so come on down.

Hair, we have 5232 of them sorry assed convicts...er..offenders at the Coffield unit we could start with.

Sobi is right on this issue. This is a really bad idea and does infringe on freedom big time. I understand the costs of prisons. But that is the price if you want to restrict people.

One problem is the amount of laws we have. You could simply reduce the number of prisoners by reducing or streamlining what we consider illegal. The california three-strikes law is pretty stupid and costly. I'm sure there are many other examples.

Dude 23, you seem to think that it is the prison systems fault the idiots committed the crimes in the first place.

How about ending the war on drugs so that over 500,000 Americans would be able to contribute to the economy instead of letting non-violent citizens rot in prison. Our country has lost its sense of the pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness with the last 100 years of government. Please keep in mind that we as Americans are paying for the govt. to arrest and make unemployable over 100,000 citizens every year.

Big Rooster,

I'm not saying that at all. There are many people in prison for good reason. However, this topic is about the cost of prisons and there are many laws that simply criminalize people or things that need not be criminalized or at least not to the degree at which they are. I was simply giving the example of the rediculous California three-strikes law which is adding to the bankruptcy of California and the prison system. I really don't think it makes a lot of sense to give someone a mandatory 20 to life for stealing a pizza or violating probation or as money4stock pointed out, having some pot. But I don't think anything I said before implied anything irrational. As far as blaming the prison system for people comitting crimes I don't really follow you on that at all. I wasn't blaming the prison system, although I am sure one might find a breeding ground of criminal activity inside prison. I was actually passing a little blame on the legal system. And I think that might be a good place to start saving money.

Do you really think that we would not be paying for all of the rehab and treatment programs for burn-outs?

Do you know what an offender travel card is? The state keeps what they call a "travel card" on each offender so that they can have a psycho analysis on them incase the escape or when they go up for parole. They tell every detail of what the offender has done since his or her first crime.

That being said...these guys are real criminals. No matter what you hear from them...they are career criminals. If it wasn't for them selling drugs it would be something else because they don't want to act right. The correct term is anti-social behavior which means that the rules do not apply them in their mind.

Big Rooster

The main people that really believe that the rules don't apply to them are the CO's and police officers. Many of which couldn't cut it in college and looked for ways to get back at those who picked on them back in highschool. Sound a little familiar? Who would you be bossing around if you weren't in your chosen field? Being on a power trip will only make you feel whole for a short time until you realize that you are the same as the people that you try to intimidate on a daily basis.

Money, you must have family that is locked up to believe all that crap. In Texas you have to go take several hours of criminal justice just to be able to apply for the job. In California you have be qualified as a police officer in order to work at their prisons (because they can write tickets in prison...not just a case against the offender).

I'm sure that you would like to believe that these people put themselves in harms way because they are on a power trip...but you are wrong.

As a rule of working at the prison you must understand that the offenders do let the CO's run the prison as long as they are right in what they say and do towards the offenders...if they are not right and and just in what they do then people get hurt for no reason. That is what lets the CO's come to work everyday. They choose to work there as a career and as a way to provide foir their family.

Actually I don't have family that is locked up. On the other hand, I do have family that are in your line of work. That being said, certain individuals do need to be incarcerated. Many of which are the men/women that are supposed to uphold the laws and maintain order. Several hours of criminal justice isn't much to brag about. Unless the laws are different in California, becomming a police officer doesn't even require a college education unless you are referring to State Troopers. Beliefs are for the unknown, what happens is what is. As to your "career criminal" statement, I do agree. Even those that aren't hardened criminals become so by the time that they exit the prison system. If my statements can sink into you a little, remember one thing. The same "criminals" that your're talking about usually get out of prison just a little smarter and more diverse in their criminal activities. When a govt. enacts laws that aren't backed up by amendments to the constitution and presidents with socialism on their mind take office, I would be careful about throwing the "criminal" term around. You could just end up as one of those "sorry assed convicts...er..offenders " yourself. Everyone that signed the declaration of Independence was also considered a "career criminal" by england.

They are career criminals before they got locked up...remember the travel cards they have?

Several hours is aprox. 33 college hours if IU remember correctly.

The government could change the laws anytime they want to...this correct. These idiot did their crimes long after the laws were passed and most all of them are basic laws that they violated.

If you feel bad for them coming out more educated on how to be a criminal them push to have them all placed in ad-seg with no contact...that would fix that...I doubt that you would want that either because that would be too cruel...right?

It all rest on the parents(plural) to raise their kids to do the right thing. If that was done our system would be cut down by a large percentage over the next 53 years(35 for the lifers and 18 for raising the child to adulthood). Not all will be brought up right nor will all do the right thing no matter what the parents do...but the parents are the first line of defence.

As a side note...do you realize that in the state of Texas the average IQ of an offender is right around 93. Now what do you do with that? That makes them just smart enough to know better but not smart enough to do better...hmmm

In order to land yourself in prison, there is usually a trail of crimes leading up to it. Usually armed robberies,grand thefts, murders,burgularies,assaults and home invasions are the crimes that are a result of drugs.

Money, If those 500,000 people were to be released do you honestly think they would go out and get a job? It cost tax-payers more money to re-arrest, go back to court with an appointed state attorney (tax payer money at work) for the offender, than to just let them serve out their time. I took that job because I knew it would pay my bills. It was not a job that I at first wanted, but was available. I grew to appreciate the job and now know there are some that could never handle the stress working inside that invironment.There were very few crooked C.O.s, but when rooted out were quickly fired or arrested. Good honest C.O.'s always want to know that their back is covered. Heck, look at our politicians. I see no halos there. I can not tell you of all the assaults and permanent damage done to officers that I personally worked with on day to day basis as result of an inmate that was simply having a bad day. If they can not go by rules while they are incarcerated, how do you think they act in a public setting?

How about doing away with the booming prison industry, or not putting every marijuana user into the correctional system? The Nazis had the Jews working for big German companies too, like Mattel. A truly inspired idea.

Every last inmate that I have seen in prision is either a writ writer or has a lawyer working on their case or working on prison reform. The prisons are built on what the inmates and their lawyers have already turned it into.

In Texas, our prisons went through massive prison reform that began in the late 70's and wasn't settled until just a couple years ago. David Ruiz is the inmates name...google it. There are too many law suits to mention that shape the prisons in Texas as well as the others.

How about teaching your kids right from wrong and let God take care of the rest.

Anne, you have no idea about prisons. Please read over some of the other post(not just mine either).

CLoud, I can see that you know exactly what is going on in the prisons.

The free world will never understand what we have seen in there.

What is happening in our prisons is not pertinent to the argument of whether they should be financially self-sustaining.

That is a political issue, and it threatens the hell out of liberty.

If you haven't noticed...they gave up liberty when they became wards of the state.

Rooster,

Not their liberty, ours.

i found yet another dumb **** posting. yea you idiot lets make the prisoners work and have the people that own the prisons get that much richer and have even more power. its those people that are making a fat living owning the prisons that want mandatory minimums and refuse to stop the war on drugs because it will cut into their take of your tax dollars. do some research before you open yur stupid mouth

Jerry, What prison are housed at and why do they let you on the internet?

Big Rooster....they have not walked a mile in our shoes. They will never understand. That is why tax-payers are spending the monumental amount that they do on inmate libraries, weights, dental, education,, medical, meals (usually better menus than our own children in schools...(just check if you do not believe it.)

Do you realize that an inmate will claim that he has a pimple on his projectile part just to go over to medical and have a nurse look at it? Do you even know that they will deficate and smear it all over themselves?

I wish they had less rights than they do, but they have plenty in prison. I can not see how anyone could feel sorry for them....but there are and that is why it cost the State loads of tax-payer monies.

I could go on with the stories I could tell. I can tell you this....they deserve to be there.

My response got flagged as having an abusive/Inflamatory/Curse word so instead of using p---s I used projectile part...but I hope you get the meaning. LOL

Yawn.

Prisoners are bad and disgusting. Don't you think they are bad and disgusting?

Yes, prisoners are bad and disgusting. You must be very smart.

You are also very smart for agreeing with me that prisoners are bad and disgusting.

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If nothing else, this conversation is redundant.

if we could quit locking everybody up for non-violent/victimless crimes we would spend so much less on the prisons and you wouldn't complain as much now would you. over 65% of inmates are in that catagory. put them on home confinement and close the prisons they are in.

Jerry, have you ever been inside of a real maximun security prison? Or one that has over 750 ad-seg inmates like Coffield? What do you really know about this except your opinion from watching a movie or two?

Tell me about a non-violent crime that think somebody got locked up for that did not need to be locked up...I really want to hear this. If it is somebody close to you I will ask for there work history too.

If I could steal several million dollars from you by hacking your personal info. you would want me to be placed back in my house and just wear an ankle bracelet? Really? All of the theives would get out and sit in the comfort of their homes and have everyone else take care of them? is that what you think?

Before anyone posts comments on here delineating the merits of having prisoners earn their keep, they may want to Google "prison industrial complex", "number of prisons in US", prison industry lobbyists", "prison industry donations to politicians", etc.

Both I and members of my family have been victims of crime (violent and non-violent), and I believe they should be held accountable. But, I am able to look beyond that to see the bigger issue here at stake, and that is my liberty and even though you would give it away, yours as well. Politicians are largely controlled by private corporate interests, like those of the prison-industrial complex. I don't trust them, and any thinking person who respects the meaning and spirit of The Constitution and The Bill of Rights would not either.

Big Rooster- you seem to be getting a little touchy about people discussing an end to your job security. time to stop with the BS. If a person stole millions of dollars you wouldn't have to worry about them getting an ankle bracelet because they'd just hire the best lawyer in the country and pay their way out of it. I'll give you a good example of non-violent offenders going to jail. How about the cancer patients that have been and currently are going through the federal court system for smoking weed. It's a plant that was outlawed by harry anslinger. A ignorant govt. official that couldn't even graduate high school. It's been proved for over 20 years that it has medicinal purposes and the govt. has still yet to reschedule it. Sit back and ponder on that for a minute or two. Could it maybe be that the perscription drug industry pays millions of dollars a year to lobby for the right to push their poisons down the throats of nearly every single American. This country is going bankrupt anyway, it won't matter how much the govt. forces their unconstitutional rules on the people. As soon as the money dries up there won't be anyone wanting or willing to inforce any injust laws, or the necessary laws for that matter. Are you going to work for the prison industry for S**ts and giggles when you aren't getting paid anymore. Or will you be one of the 1st to drop your badge and deny your identity? How long will it take you to come to terms that our country is just the same as every other country in the world. It's run by a select few that spend money like a drunk in Vegas, all the while making sure that their direct interests are well taken care of. Notice the substantial yearly raises for the elite. The name "big rooster" shows your errogance. You must be the big alpha in the prison huh. honestly hope you aren't inside when the shtf so you have a chance to reflect on the real problems that our country as a whole, not a few, will face.

perfectly stated anne

1st, I no longer work there. I did for better than 11 years as a supervisor though...so my job came to an end on my terms. I wanted to be better vested. The fact that I have been there and done that give me a great perspective on what you think you know.

2nd, I do not think that smoking weed is bad. But I also don't agree on wearing seat belts, motorcycle helmets or the speed limits...but I don't get too upset the laws if I break them and get caught.

There are other drugs to use t fight off the effects of kemo to ya know...they don't have to use weed...but it is what you want it to be...an excuse to argue your point.

If a person breaks the law and gets caught...well...is the risk worth the gain? Those people should have fought the laws before they broke them...people tend to listen better when you come to them first.

I would hate to have somebody take something of mine and then ask if it was ok to use it after I find them with it...same thing here.

Ans as for the SHTF...I have been in all out riots and have carried the dead to the infirmary too. I have been there and done that too many times...just not scared...thats all.

I made all of my money in the oil and gas fields of east Texas.

I still ask of you...what do you really know about the prison system other than what you have read or been told or watch on 60 minutes?

They should work to support themselves and the prisons system they were sent to. Not all prisons are privately owned you know.

I am not opposed to chain gangs either. Now what.

Now, I know you don't think these out to their logical conclusions and are blinded by your own narrow perspective, which is as much your loss as it is our society's. The dumbing down of America is working well though.

Anne, you are a pathetic example of an American...if that is where you are from. Not all prisons are privately owned and even if they were the inmates that are housed there were place there by their own ignorance. Why is it so hard for you to understand that the government did not pick them out and say..."lets lock up this one...they look like they would be a good worker". Your make some of the most vague statements with nothing to add substantiate them.

Please don't reply to this as it will only further my belief that our liberal education system has failed you.

I forgot to address this. My "narrow perspective" is based on over 11 years of working that field...do you think that you are the only one to read or watch the news or to know somebody that was a victim? I do know what makes the prison system work and you have what Geraldo told you on TV.

Of course you would rather hug-a-thug and tell them how the white mans system is holding them down and got their foot on their necks...right.

Lets go back to original question. Inmates/Convicts working 5/8 to earn their keep.

That would be great if it would work. Too many in segreation because they can not only get along in society, and also unable to get along with inmate general population.

Too many feigning illness and wanting to get bunk passes. The reason that I know that they feign illness is because the minute it is time to release them to recreation, they want to head on out and lift weights or run track. Oh...but they can not go!!! To sick..you know just like children. They have to remain inside till their bunk pass expires. Just like children...it can backfire on them.

There are some in work camps that are working outside the facility that have a shorter sentence. Some of these mess up also and get that privledge taken away.

Big Rooster,

This feels strangly familiar...do you remember orientation to the the ones stepping off the 'blue bird?" If some got it...they did not give a rip. Speaking to them slowly and clearly so that they could understand just did not get through their skulls. Why throw pearls to swine? This is exactly what I perceive here. I am out of this place.A total waste of time to some who will argue for the sake of it...just like inmates.I think there are some inmates here posting and spouses of inmates who are bitter.

cloudscape, you ae dead on the money. That is why I questioned certain ones as to if they were in or had family in.

Ours over here would try to fake needing psych meds just so they would not have to go out in direct sunlight and be given an inside work squad job where they could try to traffic and trade.

looks like not only inmates or spouses but a couple of good 'ol boys who are a lil bitter themselves. did your poor lil prison worker unions brainwash you into thinking the people you were looking after are all bad? the system is responsible for the way things are run, not the inmates so redirect your anger and ideas to the people that cut your checks. if we did not lock up sooooooooooo many people there would be enough jobs for all the inmates dont you think. it is very unfortunate that they need to hire more pukes to keep up with the bad people of society and build more prisons. it is funny how many cops are in the news and prison gaurds who are dirty that get to join the inside, a million dollars going out to inmates at purdy in washington for sexuall abuse because the great system your guys work for did not follow up on the complaints. who is lazy now. are people trying to work the very system that pays them.

Jerry, you are an uninformed idiot with no first hand knowledge of anything we are talking about.

"if we did not lock up sooooooooooo many people there would be enough jobs for all the inmates dont you think" that quote proves my point about you.

You obviously think that there are no bad people working at McDonalds or WalMart or the local Gas stations, hopitals...you won't point out that these idiots did wrong either...feel bad for them huh.

Once they house the dirty cops and CO's in prison will you continue to feel bad for them too or are they just the exception to your rules?