OpenGov - Open Government Brainstorm

There is a reason that the founding brothers wanted Presidents to be Natural-Born. LOYALTY to the USA. Obama is NOT loyal to the United States and is NOT "natural-born". This fact will NOT be changed by censorship or denial. Obama is NOT an american. Indeed,Obama is a traitor and a felon. He should be brought to justice. Charges have been made that Obama is a traitor. I am one of the charging parties. I made my charge with Senator Charles Schumer of NY!

I just went through the constitution and can't find any reference to requiring a presidential candidate to show the kind of birth certificate than many on this topic are asking for, or any birth certificate of any kind. I don't think that some of the people elected president after the constitution was enacted even had birth certificates.

Obama is obviously not eligible to be President or he would released his birth certificate, passports, and college records to resolve this issue instead of hiring lawyers to keep his records secret from the people. The Constitution is clear in that the President must be a Natural Born Citizen. Obama should release his records or resign. If not he should be removed.

The appropriate action is arrest!

How long will justice be delayed? How long will justice be denied? The apparent fraud and foreigner must put up or be shut up in prison while a proper investigation outs him as a president usurper. Enough is enough!

@ Robert Wildblood

If the law requires you to meet certain requirements to hold an office, it is expected you can provide proof you meet those requirements. No proof has been provided. IF he has it he should provide it. Not like we're asking for Medical test results, it's a birth certificate. Nothing in a birth certificate would reveal anything personal about you other then your name, dob and birth place. There is only one reason not to produce it and we all know what that is.

Why has this president spent over $900,000 on legal fees defending himself in court against all these lawsuits demanding he prove he was born on US soil when ONE PHONE CALL to the state of Hawaii to release his long form birth certificate can stop all this?

I know where his Birth Certificate is...KENYA!!

Post your comments at

http://www.whitehouse.gov/CONTACT/

I doubt the white house is aware of what is going on here.

Obama's 'birth certificate' not acceptable in Hawaii?

Even state requires long-form document for some eligibility, identification issues

Posted: June 07, 2009

4:10 pm Eastern

© 2009 WorldNetDaily

From the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands website

WASHINGTON – The Hawaiian certification of live birth Barack Obama posted on his campaign website and distributed to select news organizations as proof he was a "natural born citizen" would not be accepted as a "birth certificate" even for some Hawaiian state government eligibility issues, WND has learned.

The investigation follows a Honolulu Star Bulletin column Saturday, which quotes a state Department of Health spokeswoman as saying the state's current certification of live birth is recognized "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements."

The website of the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands, however, states clearly the certification of live birth touted by the Obama campaign, White House press secretary Robert Gibbs and a host of other Obama defenders is not acceptable as a form of identification to qualify under this program.

As WND has reported, certifications of live birth were widely issued to Hawaiians born in foreign countries in 1961, the year Obama was born.

Are you motivated yet to join the billboard campaign and clear up the air of mystery surrounding Barack Obama's constitutional eligibility to serve?

The Star Bulletin column goes on to report: "The issue of what constitutes an official Hawaii birth certificate received national attention during last year's presidential campaign. Those who doubted Barack Obama's American citizenship called the copy of the Hawaii birth document posted on his campaign website a fake."

However, Obama's "citizenship" was never the question raised during the campaign or after the election. The issue raised by WND has consistently been that Obama failed to prove he was actually born in Hawaii and thus constitutionally qualified to become president as a "natural born citizen" – which requires that the birth took place in the United States.

The qualifications for the Hawaiian Home Lands program require a certified copy of a standard birth certificate – also known as the "long-form certificate" filled out in the hospital and including details such as the name of the hospital and the attending physician.

"In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green," the qualifications state. "This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL."

According to Hawaii's Department of Health spokeswoman Janice Okubo, the state only issues "certifications" of live births since 2001 when the health department went paperless. It is only available in electronic form, she said.

"At that time, all information for births from 1908 (on) was put into electronic files for consistent reporting," she is quoted as telling the Star Bulletin. "The electronic record of the birth is what (the Health Department) now keeps on file in order to provide same-day certified copies at our help window for most requests," Okubo said.

She did not explain how those needing a standard long-form birth certificate to qualify for programs such as those offered by the Department of Hawaiian Home Lands or to establish proof of eligibility to be president could be fulfilled. She said the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized the state's current certification of live birth "as an official birth certificate meeting all federal and other requirements." She did not, however, cite any specific rulings, and the Supreme Court has not taken up the issue of whether the certification of live birth would qualify a presidential candidate as eligible under the "natural born citizen" clause

Many of members of the public commenting on the Star Bulletin column raised similar questions:

"I'm fifty years old and I need to apply for a passport," wrote one. "So I scan some representation of COLB onto my Facebook page. If I take my laptop to the DMV, can I just open my laptop to show my web page to the clerk who will then verify my citizenship and issue me a legal passport? I'm sorry but some documents need a paper trail."

"To be president you need to be a 'natural born citizen,'" said another. "That means you are born in this country of 'parents that are citizens.' Note that both 'parent' and 'citizen' are plural. His father was a British subject and, yes, under the laws of both the United States and the UK at the time [when] he was born, Obama's citizenship was passed by descent of the father. These are the facts. We have laws and no one is above them."

"There seems to be a great deal of secrecy surrounding this whole situation," said another. "I've read that he has three legal teams keeping his info private. He has also had all his college records sealed. So this is transparency and change? Why all the mystery?"

Additional controversy over where Obama was born came when the woman the president says is his paternal grandmother, Sarah Obama, claimed to have been present at her grandson's birth in Mombasa, Kenya.

Joseph Farah, WND editor and chief executive officer, launched a national billboard campaign last month in an effort to keep the issue before the American people. The billboards, being leased around the country, ask the simple question, "Where's the birth certificate?" Farah is asking the public to support his campaign with donations. So far, more than $75,000 has been collected.

Last week, CBS, the largest provider of outdoor advertising in the country, announced it would refuse requests for space for the campaign. But Farah says CBS' refusal to lease space for the campaign will not hinder it.

"There are plenty of other billboard companies willing and eager to take our money," said Farah. "The only obstacle to this campaign is raising the money necessary to make it truly a national phenomenon."

The billboard campaign followed one launched months earlier to collect the names on an electronic petition demanding accountability and transparency on the issue. So far, that petition has gathered nearly 400,000 names.

The campaign got a boost last week when WND White House correspondent Les Kinsolving asked Obama's press secretary, Robert Gibbs, why the president wouldn't release his birth certificate. Gibbs' response was covered live on C-SPAN and by Fox News Channel and others – excluding CBS.

It was the first time any member of the press corps has publicly asked a member of the administration a question directly related to Obama's constitutional eligibility for office as a "natural born citizen."

Congressional hearings were held to determine whether Sen. John McCain was constitutionally eligible to be president as a "natural born citizen," but no controlling legal authority ever sought to verify Obama's claim to a Hawaiian birth.

Both the petition and the billboard campaign are part of what Farah calls an independent "truth and transparency campaign."

The first sign to be posted under the campaign, a digital, electronic one, is up and online on Highway 165 in Ball, La. – the result of a donation by the owner. In addition, based on the heavy volume of financial donations in the first days of the campaign, WND was able to commit to leasing three more standard billboards – one in Los Angeles, another in Orange County, Calif. and a third in Pennsylvania.

I'm curious if you loons who are hysterical over the non-issue of Obama's birth certificate waxed a hundreth as hysterical over Bush allowing 911, botching the Afghanistan invasion, and then invading Iraq for the non-existent WMD. On issues one should be outraged about, most of you were either silent or staunch advocates. On petty issues, you are hysterical. Hysteria, thou are The Right.

Bush was "natural-born" and legally occupied the office of POTUS. Obama is a fraud and a traitor.,a felonious usurper.Bush is ours,mistakes and all. Obama is whose? Kenya? Indonesia? Saudi Arabia? The muslim brotherhoods? He isn't ours.

Robert Laity, you are painfully wrong about Obama. A fraud and a traitor? Really? Sorry, you and those like you are the victims of a hysterical and mendacious campaign to lie about Obama, in order to destroy him.

Odd that you folks would make such a big deal about Obama's birth certificate, while likely being fine with needless invasions, torture, and the incestuous marriage of government and corporations, known as fascism, or corporatism, which the Bush administration featured.

I do take solace that your ideas are laughed at by sensible types. However, I know that won't dissuade you from your mission to destroy Obama. Your attitude wouldn't be because he's Black, would it?

Don't pull the race card on me. I have voted for Black Candidates before. Obam has given aid and comfort to the enemy. Experts have called him a fraud.If he is a criminal,you are damned right I want to destroy his plans.I took an oath to defend the constitution. Obama doesn't scare me. He puts his pants on the same way I do. Mendacious? I assure you I do not make the charge of treason lightly. Bush is left to history and others to charge and try him.Obama is the current priority. It is an issue of utmost importance to national security. I suggest that the so called "sensible types" wise up.I have made the charge of treason against Obama. I filed my charge with Charles Schumer and Louise Slaughter,Senator and Congresswoman respectively.I have also publicized the charge with the Editor of the Buffalo News. The issue is that important.

If anybody is a "loon" it's believing that it's "normal" to spend almost 1 million dollars in legal fees to defend yourself in court when all you have to do is publicly release one document and stop dead all the court cases against you.

Being concerned about the Constitution being followed isn't being a 'right wing nut' either. To potentially have a man sitting in the Oval Office who's not legally allowed to be there doesn't have anything to do with race. If McCain was born in Panama at the time when it wasn't a US territory and he got elected - I would voice the same alarm.

If anything comes out of this I hope is that all Presidential candidates must provide real legal proof of not only US citizenship, but also that they are born on US soil as the Constitution requires.

Rest assured, this issue of Obama's long form birth certificate will NOT go away. It will continue to get louder until it's released to be examined by qualified personnel either by his own decision - or forced by a court of law.

Larry,

1. OK, I'll play along for the sake of discussion. If this glaring flaw in Obama's resume is so obvious, I'm really curious why the FBI, or whoever vets candidates, wouldn't have uncovered the fact that Obama isn't even qualified to be president since he's not a US citizen. How could he have gotten as far as he has?

2. Let's say your claims eventually are confirmed. Then what? Remove Obama and make Biden President? How is that any better from your perspective?

3. Or am I to believe that you are so concerned about Constitutional details that you'd be fine with Biden, as long as he's a US citizen?

Don't take my willingness to engage as any sort of acceptance of your beliefs. I think you people are seriously off the rails, and I'm suspicious it's all because Obama is Black, with a multi-cultural background, which your ilk reflexively and hysterically views as "not us," as if America wasn't steeped in multi-culturalism from her inception.

Robert Laity,

Obama has given "aid and comfort to the enemy?" How? When? Be specific.

"Experts" call him a fraud? Which experts? They wouldn't happen to be Right wing pundits, or denizens of Right wing "think tanks" would they? It's entirely insufficient just to claim "experts" call Obama a fraud.

I call Obama a super smart, decent man who has had dumped on him the biggest mess imaginable by the guys you likely championed.

I recall that when Bush was itching for a war, criticism of his bellicosity was also considered "aid and comfort." When your definition of aid and comfort is so broad, anything that differs from Right wing war mongering is branded "aid and comfort."

No sensible people accept your frame. Only dedicated Right wingers believe this swill. And they believe it because they WANT to believe it.

I'll wager you defended Bush and his brazen invasions, and now, like a good ditto-head, you are railing in service to the radical Right, facts and good sense be damned. Although your claims are incredible and weakly supported, your views are spewed on a thousand stations every day, inciting many wing nuts like the guy who murdered a guard yesterday.

Your beliefs are the threat to America. Not because your beliefs are anti-Obama, but because your beliefs are freaking unsupportable and fact-free. It's this kind of hate that can and will tear our country apart.

Well for one, xrxs120, nobody has checked because the current campaign laws don't require a candidate prove he's born on US soil only a US citizen. So therefore the law needs to be more specific so it coincides with the Constitution.

Two, yes if Obama is found to hold the office of President illegally, he would have to be impeached by Congress if he wouldn't step down. Yes it is preferable to so that rather than leave in place. The Constitution must be followed. And yes, it would be a dark time for the country.

Three, if Biden is born on US soil, then fine. He would just have to select a VP which one can only assume would be Hillary. I don't like either of their politics but I would at least accept them because they would occupy their office legally.

Last, let me say this; the second most influential person in my life spiritually speaking, is black. I'm white but my wife isn't, and most of her family is brown or dark brown. So to simply say that I'm pushing this issue of eligibility because Obama is black - I find to be offensive.

Thanks, Larry, for explaining yourself. I accept that your motives aren't racial. I'm curious, however, if you'd allow that much of the criticism of Obama IS because he's black?

As to your (I believe) obsession with a birth certificate, there's a word for your ilk: Legalist. A legalist is someone who emphasizes details of law over all else. You admit it would be a dark time if Obama were forced to step down. So, if I understand you, on top of the tremendous pile of problems the country is saddled with from Bush, you would add this.

First of all, your premise that Obama is not a citizen is unproven. Secondly, you are willing to make things much worse over a fairly petty claim. I'd call that majoring in the minors.

xrxs1020,

Given that the President of the US has top secret information that many rogue nations would love to get their hands on, I think that your labeling the birth certificate controversy as "petty" a flimsy attempt to deflect the argument. If Obama is indeed a foreign national, then it would put our military, our defense systems and our entire national security at risk. All public office holders should be verified as Citizens, especially presidents. The fact that this is done at the lowest levels of bureacracy but not the highest is alarming to say the least. And it just so happens, despite whatever race Mr. Obama may be, that his birth/childhood is so mired in secrecy and uncertainty that it has become a very real issue that should override any inconvenience to Mr. Obama or our courts. Hopefully, this will prompt lawmakers to make sure these kind of questions never arise again in the future. All "We the People" are asking for is for him to allow the release of a single document.

That's the thing rwester11, progressives consider adherence to the Constitution 'legalistic' and "petty". Forcing a President to step down is much less of an evil than ignoring its violation.

This world is has plenty of countries that have modeled their governments after ours, but their means of government is still very much banana republics. The difference between our nation and those others is that we adhered to the laws of the land, especially the Constitution.

Now we have people in our society who suggests it's much better to ignore the rule of law because they like someone's politics. This is ridiculous beyond belief.

We suffered through a President stepping down before (Nixon). We came through it then, we can through it again.

Don't let politics interfere with common sense; Why spend lots of money on hiring teams of lawyers trying to suppress the release of your true birth status - if you have nothing to hide?

Rwester11,

Besides pushing a point that is difficult to believe (Obama campaigned for two years and has held office for six months without anyone in authority being concerned about your claim), a fatal flaw in your thinking is the assumption that if (if) one were born in Kenya, then one is more likely to lack fealty to his country. Being born elsewhere but having grown up primarily in America doesn't exactly strike fear in my heart. it simply doesn't follow that if (if) one were born in Kenya, then he would not be trustworthy, given everything else we know and can see about this outstanding individual.

McCain had an issue about his birth too. He was born in Panama when Panama was a territory. Though I thought the McCain/Palin ticket was strikingly inferior to Obama/Biden, it never occurred to me to push that dead mule. The reason I didn't push it is because details of McCain's birth place are irrelevant, just as are details of Obama's birth. Besides, the stipulation that a candidate be not just a citizen, but a natural born one, is not nearly as pertinent as it may have been 250 years ago. It's an arcane, questionable part of the Constitution.

By the way, I assume that since you are suck a stickler for the last letter of the Constitution, you will also be in favor of prosecuting any upper level actors in our government who fostered violation of the Constitution by torture. As signatories to the Geneva Convention, those laws become part of our constitution. You favor prosecution of Cheney, Bush, John Yu, and the rest if an investigation proves they engaged in torture, Right?

If you are so passionate about what is a minimally important detail of the constitution, I hope I can trust that you'll be very engaged in something which really is important, namely whether or not our country engaged in torture in our name.

I'd appreciate it if you let me know if you are equally engaged in something truly important while you're also majoring in a very small point.

As to why Obama would spend almost a million to prevent what you seek, you'll have to prove to me the Obama administration has spent all that money for the purposes you claim. I have a feeling there's a break with reality somewhere in this claim. So, please prove (with something OTHER than other Right wing quotes, etc) Obama has spent all this money to suppress the truth about his birth.

I'm a sceptic and I'm wondering why you are majoring in this very weak, arcane, who-gives-a-darn issue.

Larry W. Lee,

Forcing Obama to step down would be a problem, but forcing him to step down when he's popular, AND when our problems are legion, IS untenable even if (if) you could prove he isn't eligible, which you haven't thus far.

There was a sensible argument to be made that Bush never was legally elected in 2000. A consortium of media counted every single vote in Florida a year after the election. The conclusion was that by any criteria of chads, Al Gore would have won by a healthy margin, IF ALL the votes had been methodically recounted. Cheney and the Right wing were pretending we couldn't afford to take the time to figure out who won, and we all know about the Supreme Court appointing GWB, arguably the worst president in modern history.

But no one pushed the argument much because, heck, it's kinda hard to remove a guy for the reasons of election fraud after he's already in office. The thinking seemed to be that once the bell is rung, we can't un-ring it.

So even if you were by a miracle correct about Obama, it's a little too late given we have so much more important issues to deal with than details of Obama's birth, details which don't affect in the slightest his fealty to America. This issue is so minimal compared to our need for health care, affordable education, our need to end the Iraq war, and our need to resolve many other important issues,

Instead of braying about how Obama must prove he's a natural born citizen, YOU need to prove he isn't eligible. Rumors of Kenyan relatives saying this or that need to be vetted as absolute fact. Asking him to prove he's OK is ridiculous given no one in authority is concerned.

Convince me by more than your claims, and make me concerned about Obama's fealty, which I presently feel is beyond question, as do most people.

Those who blather "we have so much more important issues to deal with than

details of Obama's birth, details which don't affect in the slightest

his fealty to America" expose how Obamatons have lost critical thinking and miserably fail to recognize that ALL of the laws of this land are to be based upon the Constitution!

Since it's apparent the fraud and foreigner disrespects our Constitution, Soetoro/Obama mocks We The People, by refusing to prove he is a natural born citizen, his fealty has been proven to be only to himself. The sooner justice is served the better. Away with Emperor Obama!

www.davidbenariel.org

David Ben-Ariel,

You haven't proven any laws have been broken. You know the onus is on you, don't you?.

I'd be happy "to recognize ALL the laws of the land" if you would kindly prove Obama is breaking any laws. You, and your fellow travelers have provided nothing except your own claims. Give me proof!

You have decided Obama is a fraud. You can't prove your adverse opinion. Yet you are very down on Obama. I can't help but think that your low opinion of him guides your so-called critical thinking.

Obama is an exemplary individual. Most people can see it. Why can't you. Or perhaps the question is, why won't you?

I'd hope you would be more concerned about torture, which is unconstitutional, which has been admitted and defended by Cheney. If you can let me know that you are even more concerned about torture, I might begin to give you more credence. But this one-note crusade about Obama's birth is quite dubious.

Calling me an "Obamaton" only makes you look bad. Ad hominem attacks only show that the attacker feels weak. Moreover, such attacks are a logical fallacy. That is, even if I were a person that is somehow hypnotized by an alleged Obama craze, I could still be quit correct as to Obama not breaking any laws.

Proof. Proof. Proof.

It's telling that the BEGINNING of the "birther" thought process is that "Obama is a fraud and a traitor." Beginning with what should be a conclusion based on evidence, you work backwards to the notion about his birth. And even on the birth question, you have no proof. I suggest you take a Logic class like the one I took in college. Best class I ever took. Helps me spot fallacies easily.

Why not just admit you're a bunch of Right wingers pissed that your group has blown it so badly that you have lost power, lost credibility, and lost your hold on good sense.

On the other hand, I hope you and the titular head of the Republican Party, Rush Limbaugh, keep it up. By doing so, you are in essence shouting to the world, "we got nothin', and we are proud of it!!'

"Order Obama to produce his birth certificate FOR NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS."

National security reasons? Really? You folks begin with the conclusion that Obama is a traitor, with absolutely no proof. Then you find anything to back up your pre-ordained conclusion. And the birth issue you've hit on is weak.

You folks may as well be claiming Obama harbors WMD. It would make as much sense.

Proof. Proof. Proof. Where's the Birth Certificate? Give me proof! That's all we're saying, We The People who are proud to be legitimate Americans and would never hesitate to show it, and yet those who have been Obamatized fail or refuse to grasp this simple truth. Such useful idiots aid and abet Soetoro/Obama's terrorism against our Constitution and Republic and will have hell to pay when justice is finally served, so help us God.

Soetoro/Obama, the very apparent fraud and foreigner, appears very suspicious, and acts very hateful by spending untold sums to keep his records in the dark, and by failing to exercise common courtesy and gladly release his long form birth certificate...but he can't, so he won't, and therefore must be removed from office.

www.davidbenariel.org

The onus is on you to prove Obama is as you claim, not on Obama to prove he isn't what you claim. Why would Obama, or anyone, respond to people who begin with the assumption he's a fraud and traitor?

How willing to cooperate would you be if I claimed you were a traitor and a fraud, and challenged you to prove you weren't, rejecting everything you provided?

Prove to me you AREN"T a traitor and a fraud, David. I say David Ben-Ariel is a traitor and a fraud. Prove to me you aren't. Whatever you say, and whatever you provide, I will say is insufficient, and I will say that your insufficient defense is more proof that you are, indeed, a traitor and a fraud.

See what I mean?

I'm very, very glad rabid Right wingers like you are few in number. I, and millions of others, can see through your shtick, but you are unaware of how ridiculous you appear, because you are so immersed your one-note hate routine.

Upon further research, I've concluded that this whole "birther" brouhaha is nothing more than a bunch of far Right, disgruntled Obama haters who, if they didn't have this issue to flog, would be doing something else, anything else, in hopes of destroying someone they sincerely hate. Thus the issue isn't fastidious love of our Constitution. Nope. The issue is hatred. The birth issue happens to be handy.

Not all small groups are devoid of truth, but this group, the "birthers," certainly is. They are lacking truth, but certainly not hatred. And that's the issue here, not the Constitution.

Peace

Sorry to disagree again xrxs1020. The problems of this nation that you mentioned earlier can be tackled by the Congress. It is THEIR job to create legislation, not the President's. The President's is NOT the chief legislator, even though in modern times that's exactly what power we've endowed him with.

Remember that thing called the Constitution? The President's signature that signs legislation into law exsists ONLY as a check against the excesses of Congress. But that would mean Congress would have to assume their full responsibilities - actually create legislation to help solve some of this nation's problems, without any guidance from the White House. But unfortunately, this is unlikely to occur without some kind of intense public pressure.

This nation can survive through an impeachment process at this time - don't short change the character of the American people.

But you are right in this respect - where's the proof? The answer to you question - and to ours - is in Obama's willingness to release that one little document that can put this whole debate to an end one way or another. But don't expect him to do so, judging by how much money he's already spent on his lawyers.

The only way this question of eligibility will be resolved is through the court system. Too bad for America that it has to go this way.

Larry Lee, If Obama is ruled ineligible Biden would be POTUS and Pelosi V-P. A new speaker would then have to be elected.

xrxs1020, Not "petty" at all. it is the LAW and we are a nation of laws and not anarchy!

The fealty of someone born in a different country is NOT as strong as one born here. The founders wanted and voted for the requirement of being natural born. It is the law and MUST be enforced. If the USA does not want this requirement anymore it MUST be changed in the manner outlined in the constitution for changing the constitution.

I have read the comments. It is demanded "Proof,proof". I am prepared to present my "proof" in a proper hearing. Is Obama ready to resent his "proof" that I am "off the wall"? Eleven thousand comments on Topix,letters to my Senator and Congresseoamn,News agencies and other interested parties. Call me on it! I am afraid Obama does not want to "call" anyone on this matter. Fealty to the US? Is that why he campaigned actively for Raila Odinga,Prime minister of Kenya,a known genocidal felon that cavorts with enemies of the US,radical islamists? I have a duty to my country. To defend it. All americans have the same duty. I have gone so far as to present thousands of links to news stories from hundreds of sources. It is the main stream media that has a love affair with a traitor. I think that my thousands of comments have resulted in curtailing Obama's unamerican agenda. He is under scrutiny that he did not expect. However,there ARE still fundamentalist american idealists that will give their lives and bloodso as to pass our republic and it's ideals onto our "posterity". Obama hasn't broken any laws? He sure has. There are reports posted on this site charging Obama with having researched ways to EVADE the constitution. That alone is a crime. The lawyers who helped him warrant disbarrment. People talk of Bush's purported transgressions. Go after him if you think he violated the law. He,as Obama,is NOT above the law. I am not in this for my health. Made up,right-wing nonsense? I don't think so. I am an American and I am asserting MY Inalienable RIGHT to petition my Government for redress of wrongs. Everyone should be concerned about the legitimacy and eligibility of our POTUS. Obama can simply produce his documentation. What is nonsense is that the law cannot be enforced. Someone has the authority to enforce the requirements of the US Constitution. If one does not like what the constitution says,one can work legally to change it. With that in mind,NO ONE can ignore it. It is our law. Obama himself has said in the past that there are "Restrictions in the constitution" he doesn't like. I is "We the people's" responsibility to safeguard the tenets of our nation. Obama does NOT meet the requirements to be POTUS. I have done my duty. I have filed charges. It is every citizens responsibility to address the issue. My concerns are valid and not frivolous. If anyone thinks that having a fraud in the office of the Presidency is not a national security issue,they are very strongly mistaken. I demand disclosure,by law,of Obama's records and congressional hearings on how this happened. Obama has criminal and shady dealings,he is suspected in murder of gays in chicago,he kow-tows to our enemies. If that isn't enough what is?

xrxs1020,

His association with Robert Ayers (a communist and domestic terrorist) and Jeremiah Wright (hate monger), who are known for the their anti-american propaganda coupled with the question of his birthplace are enough for me to question where his true allegiance lies.

Your argument of John McCain doesn't hold water. Both McCain's parents were born in the MidWest. His father was in the military, which is why he was born in Panama. This qualifies him as a natural born citizen. On the other hand, assuming Obama was born abroad, Obama's mother wasn't of legal age to transfer citizenship to him and his father was a foreign national, which is why we need verification of his birthplace.

This provision in the Constitution isn't archaic, its a matter of national sovereignty as much today as it would have been 200 years ago, even more so since nuclear warfare is now a reality. If you believe it to be archaic in your alternate reality, there is the amendment process to have it changed, until then it is the letter of the law and must be adhered.

In response to your attempt to deflect the topic on questionable interrogation techniques all I can say is this...I do not support the Geneva Convention or any other international law, which encroaches on our national sovereignty. I believe all international law to be unconstitutional to begin with. So I can give you a definative no, I would not seek to prosecute anybody under bogus international laws. Whether pouring water on peoples head is torture or not, I ask you to use common sense. All I will say is this, war (and yes we are at war) is not black and white and to treat it as such is ignorant to say the least. But you didn't ask about my beliefs so if the liberals want to try and prosecute Bush and Cheney, then go for it, your ilk can submit your case in court just like the rest of us.

@Robert:

Pelosi as VP? Why am I not comforted by that thought...

Your point of the importance for the need for a natural born President is a critical one. It is something that most people dismiss too quickly. People like xrxs1020 don't understand WHY the framers of the Constitution had that requirement in there in the first place. It's about not allowing foreign influence in our domestic affairs.

This point strikes at the heart of Obama's secrecy of his past. Just as he refuses to release his long form birth certificate, he refuses to release his school information. His school information would tell us of his citizenship status, if he applied as a foreign national in order to get his "scholarships", as well as who actually paid for his education (no, his grand parents didn't pay for him). We don't know exactly WHO paid for his education. Was his "scholarships" paid for by foreign entities as some have charged? We don't know, Obama won't release those records.

How can you believe Obama's claim about transparency in government when he won't even be transparent about his own life?

To "birthers,"

I tried to reason with you. I stand by my analysis that you people begin with an hateful conclusion (Obama is a traitor) and work backwards to something you hope will destroy him. In this you are similar to the writers of the viral e mails of the campaign which questioned Obama's Christianity, and attempted to portray him as an frightening figure.

You are in the very bad company of cranks like Rev. Falwell who believed Clinton (whom I never voted for) was dealing drugs out of Little Rock airport, and murdering people pell mell. Sheesh.

You will be on your own on this. The specific issue you champion is petty, minor, and legalistic. But mostly it is strictly in service to your extremist Right wing agenda.

But thanks for opening the window of your world to me.

I leave you for more pertinent matters.

Sorry xrx1020, it is not being a "crank" to expect the President to abide by the Constitution. If we abandon the Constitution, or even a part of it, we abandon what makes America what it is - a society under laws, not under men.

You reason that we shouldn't pursue requiring Obama to prove he was born on US soil because times are difficult. This reasoning isn't valid. It's the excuse of "difficult times" is exactly what dictators always cite when they grab more power. This is what Obama has done with his unauthorized control of private companies. This unprecedented expansion of power by the Executive Branch is alarming at the very least. To have this grab for more power be propagated by man who may not be legally able to hold the office of President, is alarming in the extreme.

The Constitution exists to restrain government. To ignore its violation is not "petty", "minor", nor "legalistic" as you claim. To disregard its restraints in favor of a man is blind. It is also dangerous.

Like an idiot, I'm going to try one more time to reason with you people. If you like, go to

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate

and

www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

Or google "Honolulu article about Obama's birth." There is all sorts of good information about "certificates of birth," and other pertinent facts.

Judge Surrick who soundly rebuffed Phillip Berg's lawsuit regarding the "missing" proof of Obama's birth, wrote that Berg "ventured into the unreasonable" in his law suit.

What a classic understatement!

Then again, I suspect that you "birthers" only accept the word of other "birthers," thus reinforcing your biases and animus against President Obama, a very intelligent, decent human being.

Both URL's prove nothing, especially a site like snopes.com. My suggestion to you xrxs1020 is to forget about the matter. I'm sure even if Obama was forced by a court of law to produce his long form birth certificate, and it was found that he was indeed not born on US soil, you would still claim it's a right wing conspiracy to usurp a legally elected President.

All I ask of my President is provide documents proving his validity to hold his position and not hide behind lawyers. I think it's a reasonable request.

Larry, you are correct about that argument, which was the weakest of many I've put forth, in a valiant attempt to reason with you. The strongest argument is that President Obama has already proven he was born in Honolulu HI, in August, 1961. The birth certificate was posted on the Web. They called it, I believe, a "certificate of birth," or "certification of birth." But don't let that throw you. Different states have different names for these documents. As to the purported fraudulence of the posted certificate, how can your so-called experts analyze a document when it's posted on the web? As to the "missing" seal, it's on the opposite side.

Moreover, how can you possibly argue against the announcement in the Honolulu paper citing Obama's birth in 1961?

Yes, your crusade is petty, legalistic, and a great example of allowing little things to become big, and big things to become little. I stand by my analysis that you are members of the radical Right, and as such you hate President Obama, and will latch onto anything in your attempt to destroy him. Listen to Limbaugh, Michael Savage, Glen Beck, and Sean Hannity much?

By the way, the hate being expressed against President Obama (for example, "Obama is a traitor") is disturbingly close to inciting violence. What's to keep a nut-job from listening to you or various Right wing pundits and then resorting to violence like the White Supremacist who murdered the Black security guard? I'd watch your rhetoric if I were you. You are making outlandish claims for which you have no, little, or weak proof.

I bet you won't go to Snopes or Factcheck to see if your claims are true. I believe people of your ilk prefer to soak in your bile against an imaginary conspiracy supposedly involving President Obama. In truth, there may be some sort of conspiracy and "shadow government," but if there is such a thing I can assure you it is of a radical Right bent, and therefore, resonant with your own beliefs.

Proves nothing? Really? The yellowed citation in the Honolulu Advertiser announcing Obama's birth proves nothing? Huh?

I know you didn't go to either site, so I challenge you to do so. This brouhaha is not a matter of opinion. The matter can be dismissed easily if you had the courage to address the facts. Both sites refrain from editorializing, but instead provide indisputable facts. Saying they "prove nothing" is merely more blather similar to your original claim, which stems from hatred of a very decent, intelligent person.

Tell me, how do your Right wing experts manage to analyze, and deem a fraud, the birth certificate when it's only an image on the web? That's quite a trick!

Logic, the facts, and your own hateful motives are shouting at you now, saying BOGUS! Be a man and admit it.

In any issue at controversy there will be those opposed and those for. This is why we have courts. Several people,including me,have made formal charges against Obama that he is a fraud and a traitor to the United Staes oF America. Blog discussions can go on ad infinitum,people for and people against. This matter WILL fester until it "comes to a head" and the "boil" must eventually be lanced lest the nation become further diseased. Experts have said the COLB is a forgery. No doctor or hospital has claimed connection with Obama's birth in Hawaii.A story in the Buffalo News relayed to Paula Voell,now retired,has been discredited. Why is Obama a traitor? Why is giving a radical Islamic terrorist (Raila Odinga,who claims to be Obama's "cousin")money ("One milliion dollars")and campaigning for him NOT Treason,given the fact that it was radical islamists who attacked us on September 11,2001? That is one instance. There are others.

Robert,

The beauty of Reason, as in math, is that many matters can be settled comfortably by analysis, assuming one or other of the parties aren't simply determined to plow ahead, facts be damned. In that case, yes, it would take a court trial. But even then it wouldn't be settled for the side that essentially believes in a comprehensive conspiracy in which no one can be trusted. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

Your experts must be amazing if they can look at a COLB on a computer screen and authoritatively proclaim fraud. I suspect your experts are frauds. You'd think Obama's evil henchmen would have been more competent!

How did the entry from 1961 about Obama's birth end up in the Honolulu paper? Or did the Rothchild's minions go back and fake that too? Please. In order to persuade, one has to present ideas and facts that make some sense. It is insufficient to avoid answering obvious questions with what other "experts" say. You may as well be trying to convince us that 2 + 2 + 5. All the experts in the world agreeing with you won't convince anyone if your thesis is unbelievable.

IF it's true that no doctor or hospital has claimed connection with Obama's birth, there can be reasons for that OTHER than what you'd like to believe. Why would Obama give a million dollars to a genuine terrorist and think he could get away with it? That's another whopper Robert! Unbelievable on its face. Or as Judge Surrick said, you've ventured into the irrational.

Why do you believe this stuff? Answer: you hate him to begin with, thus you accept any wild-ass, Right wing fable because it reinforces your hate.

XR, Obama campaigned for Raila Odinga. It was in the news. Obama's mama Dunham flew to the new state of Hawaii after giving birth in Kenya to make her sonny boy an american. No records of him being born in any hawaiian hospital although Obama kin has claimed he was. A person caught in llies cannot be trusted. The issue is not going away xr.

Go to you tube and look at the Odinga/Obama connection.

I am an ex-fed with THREE decades of whistleblower experience. I cannot be dismissed that easily.

Where's the Birth Certificate!

Barry...you were born in Kenya,weren't you?

His Black grandma, Aunt, and half brother all say he was born in Kenya. So who's lying, Obama or them?

This much we know for sure: Soetoro/Obama has kept America in the dark, refuses to be transparent with any of his records, and pays lawyers plenty to keep things under wraps. Doesn't sound too innocent, does it?

He doesn't want to go to jail.

What's the matter? Topic to hot for you?