OpenGov - Open Government Brainstorm

Don't we just LOVE the new Executive Order of Obamanation declaring June the HOMOSEXUAL MONTH in violation of the 1st Amendment "Congress [I think that includes Obama] shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;"

Great Heavenly HONK!

The entire exectutive and legislative branch besides the few that are honest and god fearing all perverted and full of wickedness. Anything these perverts dream up in their mind they are trying to enact some sort of sordid law whilt the Pontus will sign it. He will sign anything they send him no matter how bad it is. they are doing his bidding, but the guy is naked and has no clothing on.

Let's start by kicking out the Czars

I don't know if they should be 'thrown out' entirely; rather, Executive Orders should be taken as just what they are ... documents of one branch of government (like 'bills from the legislative branch' or 'Supreme Court decisions' ... maybe not as powerful as that last one, I never studied that ...).

It is up to Congress to call him down for his Executive Order making June "Homosexual Month!" Call on your Congressmen. Great Heavenly HONK!

Executive Orders have historically belonged to the Executive Office, and very few have ever been undone by Congress, but they have the power to override one. If the 1st Amendment isn't a bar for this June thing, then I don't know what would be.

You should check out the Executive order 11,000 and the many E.O.s that are ready for use against you in the event of a Presidential decree to bring you under control if such as this Elgibility issue explodes . You haven't a clue what your Government has in store for you if thay feel that they are loosing control . REX-84 and GARDEN PLOT are two exercises where our own military practiced rounding us up and putting us into detention camps before Obama .Open your eyes .

Wslchar,

Please do us the favor of giving us a URL to read what you're talking about. Here's the search URL for a good start:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/search/?keywords=Executive+Order+11000

Give us something to back up your statements that's official.

Thanks, Don Wood

Don , I'm kind of new to the internet world , but I can tell you that if you will type FEMA Marshal Law Camps into your search engine you will open up a whole world that you might have been unaware of .

I personally like the Youtube video's . Anybody can write anything and present it as truth ,but when you see the words come out of their mouths , such as David Rockefeller , Congressmen , Presidents, Henry Kissinger News People there is nodoubt about it . ENDGAMES , The OBAMA DECEPTION , FEMA MARSHAL LAW , 911 and CHENEY CONNECTION , LARRY SILVERSTINE ADMITS , are good videos . Look up Kellogg Brown And Root gets 385 Million contract . That will confirm FEMA camps . This is a hard truth and some turn away .

Because my first post with all the detail was and still is "pending moderator approval," I could post the whole list, but check it out here:

http://www.libertyforlife.com/eye-openers/new_void_executive_orders.htm

Wslchar, truth_sets_you_free gave us a fine list:

* Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation unlawfully suspended the great Writ of Habeas Corpus

* Franklin Roosevelt was president for a little over twelve years. that time, he issued 3,723 executive orders Franklin Roosevelt closed American banks and force citizens to turn in their gold to a private bank, the Federal Reserve Bank; detention of American citizens of Japanese descent

* 1951, Harry Truman seized Strikethreatened Steel Mills to prevent shortages that would endanger "national security."

* Richard Nixon imposed wage and price controls in 1971

* Jimmy Carter, groomed by the secret Bilderberg organizatoin, created Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) - see U.S. Concentration Camps

* George W. Bush and previous President's Executive Orders go further than Hitler and Stalin dared to put in writing:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990

allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995

allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997

allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998

allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999

allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000

allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001

allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002

designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003

allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004

allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005

allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051

specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310

grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049

assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11490

Assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921

allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months. The Federal Emergency Management Agency has broad powers in every aspect of the nation. General Frank Salzedo, chief of FEMA's Civil Security Division stated in a 1983 conference that he saw FEMA's role as a "new frontier in the protection of individual and governmental leaders from assassination, and of civil and military installations from sabotage and/or attack, as well as prevention of dissident groups from gaining access to U.S. opinion, or a global audience in times of crisis." FEMA's powers were consolidated by President Carter to incorporate the:

National Security Act of 1947

allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities.

1950 Defense Production Act

gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy.

Act of August 29, 1916

authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency.

International Emergency Economic Powers Act

enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979

@Don Wood - There's no harm in Executive Orders; did you know that JFK gave an Executive Order reseting the currency-base to silver?

So Obama thinks June should be homo-month; does that change our lives at all?

John Kennedy also was trying to get rid of the Fed and made a big televised speech to the country bringing to light the secrete societies whose intent was to control us . Why the 79 year sealing of the real assassination report ? Who did it implicate ?

At any time the President of the United States can invoke full Marshal Law . Fema is to administer it and Congress can do nothing for 6 months . This gives Dictatorial powers to the President to suspend the Constitution and Bill of Rights immediatly . A good youtube video to see is ( Rep. Jack Brooks questions Oliver North about Fema . Police State 2000 also shows the UN taking part in US martial law exercises . Why?

Uncle Myth Man,

Of course the June Homo Month changes our lives! It's a sneak attack on the first part of the 1st Amendment concerning the free exercise of religion. A straight reading of scripture leaves non one in doubt that homosexuality is a sin, and one that can also be confessed and removed. A careful reading of 1Cor 6:9-11 shows that Paul could have actually named those homosexuals, but said they had been washed (baptized), sanctified (living a holy life), and stood justified by Almighty God.

Some may not agree, and that's their right, but Obama is taking a side attack on the Jewish, Muslim & Christian religions by OFFICIALLY making June a PRIDE MONTH -- BY LAW! It's merely the camel's nose under the tent. I call Congress to repeal his filthy gesture. It's a frontal attack against the 1st Amendment Obama TWICE vowed to uphold. He's an oath breaker. THAT is called Treason.

Uncle Myth Man,

You point out correctly how JFK was trying to get rid of the Fed and to bring us back to United States Notes, and it got him killed. But it is still Congress' job and with a nut case in the White House -- not even qualified to serve -- it's better that we make a law against the President's power of Executive Orders. There are some previously DANGEROUS EO's in there which were sleeper EO's just waiting for an "Omabanation" to enter the White House.

I also admit and agree that Presidents from the very beginning have used the power, but the Article under which they use it is far, FAR more vague that the scripture I just quoted for you. Besides, it's our right to remove the power if we see the dangers on every hand!

Make EO's illegal!

Yes, the good use of EO's got JFK killed. Isn't that enough of a "wake up call" to us, together with the list you see above, to GET RID OF THIS MENACE!

Don Wood 1) God doesn't care about sexuality, except that homosexuality is against survival of the species. And ... isn't PRIDE one of those 'deadly sins'? It's the one that informed Pilate-etc. to get rid of the rightful King! (And so it goes ... did JC ever take the Emperor down for that?)

Don Wood 2) So Executive Orders DON'T have any real power, right? None more than a 'presidential memo with a number on it', yeah?

God said that homosexuality is an abomination to God . The story of Sodom and Gomorrah has a lot to say about what God thinks about it .

The problem with thoseExec. Orders is that they have been combined to the extent that the president can put us under a total dictatorship with out a valid cause. Just the suspicion of a problem is enough . And the Congress is powerless to even look into it for 6 months . By then we will have a consolidated dictatorship with no recourse .

Hi Uncle,

The PRESUPPOSITION of having made a male and a female which conveniently and perfectly fit together shows that God cares VERY MUCH about sexuality. His word (see above) condemns all kinds of sex which is not in accordance with his created means.

When Adam didn't find an animal suitable for his needs, God provided a woman right out of his own flesh and Adam was very pleased. And God's command to multiply and fill the whole earth couldn't have been kept by those who tried it their own way. Those that aren't pleased are those who either say, "There is NO GOD!" or "NO! God! I'll do it my own way." Therefore, again, God is very concerned about sexuality as the presupposition even YOU offered for homosexuality failing to keep God's command would prove the presupposition again.

Jesus Christ did not come to judge, BUT he is coming back to judge every one.

"...judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. 1Co 4:5

For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. John 3:17

"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. John 12:47-48.

All the best!

Don Wood

Uncle,

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, joking or serious. Those Executive Orders have the FORCE OF LAW. So, they are very serious. If you will recall, it was an EO that sent the Japanese to prison camps and by golly, if they can do it to them they can do to us, and the EO's are already in place to do just that! Unless you missed the story in the news lately, you should have been shocked that the Home Security Office was (and probably still are) marking those that could be a danger to the present administration that wants to take our liberties and Bill of Rights away. (Most of them are gone anyway, and most people think it's the law. They are wrong, and T. Jefferson said the blood of tyrants and patriots is the "manure" that keeps liberty alive and growing.)

Don Wood

Uncle,

The last of your questions:

"From then on, Pilate tried to set Jesus free, but the Jews kept shouting, "If you let this man go, you are no friend of Caesar. Anyone who claims to be a king opposes Caesar." When Pilate heard this, he brought Jesus out and sat down on the judge's seat at a place known as the Stone Pavement (which in Aramaic is Gabbatha). It was the day of Preparation of Passover Week, about the sixth hour. "Here is your king," Pilate said to the Jews. But they shouted, "Take him away! Take him away! Crucify him!"

"Shall I crucify your king?" Pilate asked.

"We have no king but Caesar," the chief priests answered.

Finally Pilate handed him over to them to be crucified. John 19:12-16.

Yes, Pilate wasn't even obedient to his own law and personal judgment that Jesus had done nothing worthy of death, he was as corrupt as the chief priests and ordered Jesus' death. Therefore, Christ didn't need to say anything directly to him as the scriptures are plentiful that what Pilate did was sinful.

Lastly, the scriptures declare that all have sinned and come short of God's glory. WE must HEAR the good news, BELIEVE it's true which comes from hearing God's word, Rom 10:17, and WE must REPENT and turn completely around from sin. We must CONFESS with our mouths that Jesus is the Christ, the son of the Living God, and finally WE must be immersed in the name (authority) of Jesus in water FOR remission of sin TO receive the indwelling Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38, 22:16) which Spirit raises us up on the last day into life everlasting, Rom 8:9-11.

Hi Peter,

PETER WROTE:

Okay, I have watched and videos on individualism and communalism. Now let me respond. If we WERE trees, seeking our own patch of earth and producing our own energy, obtaining our own resources and totally independent of all the other trees I would agree with the individualistic view of the world. In fact, in that world where we act as independent entities we don't really need organization, a forest or other trees. Each of us is totally independent and free to do as we wish.

We are not trees, we don't produce our own energy, we don't obtain all the resources we need to live and we do depend on the others for our survival. As society has become larger and more complex, our dependence on others has grown, not diminished. Do you keep all the money from your paycheck at home or do you use a bank? Do you grow all your own food or do you buy most of it in a supermarket? Do you manufacture your own transportation or do you buy your car? Do you use electricity, bridges and highways? Do you make your own appliances and furniture and did you build your own home? If not, then you are depending on others in society. You are not a totally independent entity in a larger social structure. You are a dependent entity that is part of that larger social structure.

DON REPLIED: WHAT in the world does this have to do with a limited government protecting life, liberty & property? In every one of the institutions you mention above, the bank, farmer, grocer, transportation manufacturers, electric utilities, bridge & highway constructors, appliance and furniture manufacturers and sellers, home builders, etc., ALL DEPEND ON A STRUCTURE OF PROTECTING THEIR LIVES, LIBERTIES & PROPERTY. Your own list, above, proves that you're being willfully stubborn about obedience to the LAW.

PETER WROTE:

If you die tomorrow, will society perish? If society collapsed tomorrow, would you survive? Would you likely live to a ripe old age you have a chance to reach today if you did survive the collapse of society? Why has the life expectancy of humans increased to 70-80 years of age from 30-40 years of age just 150 years ago? If you break a leg, suffer a serious infection from a wound or get hurt, are your chances of survival going to be as good as they would be without a society? Why not? We depend on others to facilitate our lives. In fact, the advantages of communal life is what has driven the development of human civilizations and government. Because we could have artists, teachers, engineers, builders, farmers, doctors, furniture makers, etc. no one has to do it all and everyone can become better at what they are good at or want to do in society. However, the result of that interdependence is also a need for CONFIDENCE everyone will be responsible and accountable for what they do. Thus, you need to trust the builder will not cut corners and make that house he builds unsafe. You need to trust that engineer will not ignore the issues of stress and wear when he builds that bridge so it doesn’t collapse when you drive over it. You need to trust the farmer and the shop owner will not sell you bad or tainted food that could hurt your health. You need to trust the doctor is qualified to practice medicine, the drugs you buy are safe and effective, the appliance and the car manufacture will produce safe, reliable goods, the banker will not cheat you or steal your money.

DON REPLIED:

PETER, you must not add to any LAW or take anything away from it or YOU will be guilty of breaking it. That's exactly what you're suggesting is necessary here. And it's not necessary at all. Fraternity, brotherly love, help and encouragement to one another is NOT A GOVERNMENTAL GRANT OR LICENSE! It only comes from the heart, is the purity of religion which only God can govern. The scriptures say that man looks upon the outward appearance but God looks upon the heart. The presupposition is that it's outside the legitimate boundary of government to even try to regulate man's heart. The INSTANT you make it thus, that government has become corrupt, because it must rob Peter to pay Paul. Robbery is at the top of the list of priorities for which we first formed a body politic and then a government.

PETER WROTE:

In a perfect world where individual values and responsibilities coincide with those of the society, there is no problem. In fact, I think the vast majority of people do act responsibly and with the interest of others in mind. However, we do have the Bernie Madoff's who don't. We see bankers and financial institutions that were not honest when greed got the better of them. We see KBR's electric work in Baghdad was so poor it will need to be completely redone in the hundreds of buildings in the US Embassy. We see Enron leaders who lied about the balance sheet and cost people their retirements, investments and jobs. We had a S&L crisis in the 1980's caused by similar faulty business practices. We have seen cigarette companies that put profits before the public interest and we see health insurers do the same thing. We have seen businesses that would rather pollute our water and air than lose money to prevent it. We have seen truckers drive when sleep deprived, and people drive under the influence of alcohol. The problem is, not everyone does obey the rules, responsibilities and obligations they have as members of this society and in some cases the financial, health and life changing implications of that are horrendous.

Society must establish rules, laws and regulations so that all people understand that "your freedom (and mine) ends where my nose(or your nose) begins". It is not good enough to say everyone should be responsible and independent to do what they want. Some people clearly assume their independence extends to the abuse, exploitation and hurting of others.

DON REPLIED:

Firstly, because men are NOT perfect, ONLY a limited government can be trusted. The more complex, the less likely it is to be trusted. AND since we have the 20/20 hindsight vision to see, even a limited one is subject to being violated without any punishment given! As a result, all hell is breaking out now. LIMITED government is not a bridge to Socialism, Peter, but rather, LAW violators are that bridge. Our LAW prohibits what you're demanding, but too many have gotten by with violations that have not been punished and so you "think" it is the right way. It is not. Where do you find the legal amendments for the actions your people are taking now? They DO NOT exist. Most of what you're talking about above is the result of zero jury trials in our country (though they are still called "jury trials," see http://fija.org), and therefore, the lack of protecting life, liberty and property -- because they're so interested in controlling people's lives through socialism -- which has debauched our LAW and government. Whatever, it remains the People's right to RESTORE that form of government YOU and others are destroying, because you have broken the Supreme Law of the Land to subvert the People's attentions to accept forms NOT approved consciously, morally, righteously or in any form of logic. You have violated our LAW by just breaking it instead of amending it, haven't you!

PETER WROTE: In a social system in which individual freedom takes precedent over social responsibility that is okay. However, that independence actually contributes to the social problems we now face.

DON REPLIES:

I have asked you to PROVE that. There is no proof for this, Peter. It's a made up dream to support your belligerent violation to obey the Supreme Law of the Land. In short, it's a lie. You've never answered the question about blaspheming the American Constitutional Republic. You folks are good about not paying attention to the LAW and just violating it because you think you can. That time has come to an end.

Next you are actually pleading our case:

PETER WROTE: ***Not controlling or limiting it means there will be more individuals who will see their opportunity in following a similar path that ignores the rights of others and tramples on their freedoms. If there are no consequences or mechanism for preventing it, explain why there will be no more Bernie Madoff's?*** [Emphasis Don's] So long as many see the short term rewards outweigh the long term costs they will see their greater independence as a positive means for exploiting, abusing and reaping the rewards from society because they have nothing to lose.

DON REPLIES:

Prove it, Peter! Prove that it is socialism rather than limited government that is positive!

IF we can have a legitimate jury trial against Bernie who appears to have violated the life, liberty & property of all those he stole from we will get justice whether we will get our money back or not. NOW HEAR THIS: It was not and is not the government's job to regulate and ensure safety in all our institutions because to even attempt such a thing is to become the tyrant of all People to the end of all liberties. This is the difference between Common Law government and Civil Law government. The latter tells the people only what they may do, while the former is a maxim saying, "You may do anything you want to do, so long as you do not violate the life, liberty or property of another in so doing." A real jury in Bernie's case could decide on the death penalty and a total confiscation of his entire family's property. (Well, if you wind up with a counterfeit note in your hands, the bank doesn't repay you. You're just the loser.) Berny's boys turned him, but they themselves were the recipients of his fraud. Sorry, Boys. Give it all back. Let a jury protect the lives, liberties and properties of Berny's victims like this, and such a strong message will be sent that it will make the future Ponzi thinkers, think twice!

So, again, Peter; prove your allegations. Show us in history that what you're saying is true.

Your trees illustrations are fallen and approaching a long, long winter.

PETER WROTE:

Whether one likes it or not we are not individual trees, or completely separate entities independent of one another. We are more like the cells that make up a single tree. Each of us carries out a specific function, each or us is part of the tree, but not indispensible to it. We receive our nourishment, our protection, our defense, our help and our structure and relevance by being part of the tree with many cells carrying out the various functions that allow the entire tree to live. If we die, the tree still lives. If the tree dies, most of us that make it up will die as well, unable to survive on our own.

DON REPLIES:

Prove this, Peter. This is NOT a cohesive or conclusive argument against limited government at all. You're completely ignoring this issue, by supposing that socialism is the answer instead of answering why a limited government wouldn't solve these problems. In fact, all that socialism HAS instituted are the Berny's and Enron's of America, because there is no real recourse against the LAW breakers any more. No jury trials has absolutely ensured this situation. My proof is more than you can stand.

Peter, look, do you not realize your voice, writing and living is a testament to sedition? You are inciting even greater discontent and rebellion against the SUPREME LAW OF THE LAND that you and your people have violated hand over fist. Your rationale is ignorance and misunderstanding, forgivable up to the point of stupidity, and then you will have to pay the price for it. It's sad you can't already see the price you are paying! However, there is another maxim of this matter in the spiritual realm. It was NOT God who hardened the heart of the Pharaoh. He hardened his own heart first, and THEN God made it even harder to prove to the world what happens when you disobey the LAW. In 2Th chapter two is the same maxim delivered again. When people will not use their brains/hearts to obey the things taught by God which is actually what you claim you want, but at the unrestrained hand of government instead of God (and limited government is one of those things taught by God), then God Himself, will send such a strong delusion that those people who refuse to hear Him will BELIEVE LIES. God even explains his reasons for sending such a strong delusion so that they will believe lies, is so that those looking for the truth with all their hearts and minds will marvel at the stupidity of believing outright lies! Those hunting the truth will not mistake what law breakers are doing and they will not make the same mistakes.

You're writing speeches here on a government post and promoting the most ridiculous discontent and rebellion against the Supreme Law of the Land, and though you're warned of it (Art. 6, Sec. 2), you make no comments in regard, but simply rant on with your seditions talk. We've all asked you questions to answer about this and you ignore them all.

It is you and the people you're following that are causing Americans to want to REVERT & RESTORE what you and your people have taken away. AND you all did it WITHOUT amending the Constitution. So, you're all guilty of sedition, treason willfully breaking the Supreme Law of the Land. Romans 13:1-8 has this to say to you today: "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one [the PEOPLE] in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. THIS IS WHY YOU PAY TAXES, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."

So, if you don't like it you should go back to the land of your fathers. I find everything you're saying is in violation of the Supreme Law of the Land that God established in our country. Now those who have a right to depend upon God's institution have a right to restore, reestablish and bear the sword to see your sedition and revolution is punished.

Come on, Peter, talk about THESE things, and stop the drivel of socialism. Because a "more complex society" is NEVER the fruit of a limited government, but rather of an UNlimited government destroyed by law breakers! A limited government provides for the most peace, because the sword is not swung for no reason at all! Your logic is so screwed up, you're talk is the epitome of sedition and evil. Repent of this nonsense and LAW breaking! OR leave the country or change it's Constitution.

PETER WROTE: There are advantages to this communal life and there are disadvantages. The advantage is each one of us has a greater opportunity to achieve things that would never be possible were we not part of this bigger social existence.

Here you're talking about religion and making the the state your idol, which God also condemns. A state, even with limited powers, is not a bar of evil. There will be men who refuse to obey it, just as you prove. But asking government to become what only God has reserved to himself is one eternally dangerous place to lodge dependence. Look, Peter, the proof is already IN on that score; your drivel is noted for what it has wrought. It wasn't limited government that brought us to the point of applying the manure of despot and patriot alike. Not only need you to think about your country but also of your misplaced faith.

PETER WROTE:

Working together society flourishes, the arts, humanities, science and medicine advance at a far faster rate than anyone could imagine possible. The down side is that as society becomes more complex, more interdependent and more crowded, our individual freedoms, our independence becomes curtailed . . . ."

DON REPLIED: So, this is the rationale that allows you to break the LAW without so much as even entertaining the trouble of amending our LAW? Is there no consequence of such actions?

PETER CONTINUED: ". . . so that we all can work together, depend on one another and have confidence and trust that others that are also part of this society will not abuse or exploit it and cause us harm. [Don: THAT is religion. The STATE is NOT vested with such right or powers!!!] Each person will do their part and contribute to it. Weaker individuals can survive now who may have special talents and abilities that contribute to our society but who would never have survived on their own. The potential of people is expressed when before their time would have been invested in hunting and gathering functions that were necessary for survival but not creative or productive aspects of life.

There is no perfect social system. All systems require sacrifices and have problems. However, your body is made up of hundreds of trillions of cells all with identical information. Your body has transportation and delivery systems, storage, communication, production, central processing, defense and structural issues, repair and waste disposal that are not unlike that of a human society. Each cell carries out certain functions and in return is provided the energy, resources and nutrients it needs for survival. There are individualist cells, we call them cancerous tumors. They feed off the body and rob it of its nutrients. They steal resources from the community for their own benefit, never carrying they are destroying the very fabric of life that feeds them, never worrying about the negative impacts it has on others in the community. They think only of themselves and what they want. They are real and an anathema to a healthy, vibrant social organism.

DON REPLIES:

Again, this is no argument against a limited government that you and your leaders have effectively dismantled without amending or changing the law. Antibodies will throw out the cell LAW breakers until they are overwhelmed. By the way, Peter, do you own a gun? I don't, but then I escaped America quite some time ago. Are you really ready to defend your unbridled LAWLESS ways without a gun! You're all just a bunch of law breakers and it's come to an end. I do not predict which side will win, but there is no question that Americans have come to a point I've been predicting for FOUR DECADES, since 1968.

Peter, argue only ONE point with me. The Constitution does say that it is the "Supreme Law of the Land." Why aren't you bound by that supremacy clause??? Why aren't your leaders? Do you all just have the legitimate power to let your unsupported opinions guide your behavior and break at will what the founders pondered all their lives? Are you all really that smart? I can assure you, that your way is NOT new under the sun. It's the old way of civil rather than common law.

PETER WROTE: Any social system can be improved. It can be made to work better and more effectively. However, opening it to the robber barons of the past is not the solution.

DON REPLIED:

I would like you to know who the "robber barons" are. Look up a video called, "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=808526880666247652 Go there and you'll find historical reality and inability of persons outside the US to bring an action against the robber barons who have eaten up the substance of their countries. THAT is a social evil that could have been saved had the people had the ability to try those guilty of lying and fraud to protect their lives, liberties and properties!

PETER WROTE: Society works best when people understand their part in it and their responsibility to it. Some day take a trip to a city like Seattle. Drive into the city at night from the south on I-5 or take a ferry into the downtown area. The buildings, the lights, the beauty of the city will amaze you and perhaps make you aware there are literally millions of people, no different than you required to make a city a city. It has a life all its own, an existence greater than that of any single person and it is beautiful to see it lit up at night and glowing in the darkness.

DON REPLIED:

Peter, I've taken the very trip you mention. But the magnificent beauty you describe is what's there IN SPITE OF your people's evils. They would have been much greater had a limited government been the only thing the people had to obey. Those beautiful lights would have been much better had the mortgage fraud that's going on in Seattle would not have to be dealt with, and I can tell you, those involved in that matter would have had a second thought if they only feared a limited government instead of one that has become so complex (as you seem to think is good), which could relieve them from all forms of liberty, and assign them to very hard labor to repay those they have stolen from. Let a real jury have them!

PETER WROTE:

You can't create that life by yourself. You can only be a part of it and be amazed at its potential, how it grew and blossomed and now shines and lights up the night sky. There is both happiness and peace in knowing we aren't the most important entities, but merely a part of something bigger and better. If we do our parts the growth will continue and the beauty will multiply. If we don't, if we embrace the individualism you so deeply desire, all you will do is open society up to the cancerous types who would gladly feed off and destroy it for their own benefit, not caring if it all dies because they will die either way so "who cares?"

DON REPLIES:

Suggesting communalism leads to tyranny is silly. IT IS TYRANNY!

Peter, there is no "suggestion" about it. Communalism/Communism ABSOLUTELY leads to tyranny, and you have only to look around you now to see what it has done. You have NOT argued that our most recent history has been a "limited government." It has been YOUR law breaking socialistic government that many are ready to restore. If you decide to remain blind or deaf as to what your illegitimate form of government has done to our country, the Constituted government of the People, then let God blind you further. I will have no sympathy. Unfortunately, the American People have suffered the tyrants as long as they are willing to. I do not know whether they will win their war or not, but I do know that the American People have more fire power than China and India combined. That was recently in the news, and you probably missed it. I'll give you the source if you need it. I do not favor or encourage a civil war, and having predicted it since 1968 makes only you and your crowd the instigators because you would not obey the Supreme Law of the land. You violated it over and over a thousand times with reckless abandon, and now you will suffer the penalty with another civil war. Why oh, why don't you wake up and get your people to apologize and give back what they stole? Not only have the people decided to tolerate the LAW breaking tyrants, they have actually been brain washed into joining them in spite of the fact the LAW has not been erased. It's still there for all to see and all to be brought to righteous judgment for having violated it.

PETER WROTE:

We decide if we will tolerate tyrants as leaders. Society sets the rules of conduct for all people in it, we have just forgotten we need at times to demand a higher standard from those who represent us. [DON SAYS, But John, when it is YOU we have to do battle with, our next door neighbor, we are slower to exact the judgement and penalty until we can stand nor more.] Society grows in fits and starts, adjusting the rules, laws and regulations to make things work better, sometimes worse, but always with the same goal in mind – to improve how well things function, their reliability and dependence.

DON REPLIES:

Yes, but that portion of society which willfully breaks the law, acts like it's not there, and does only what it's own opinion dictates, without changing the LAW, is the law breaker. Law breakers must eventually stand before a court of LAW both on earth and before that which has no equal on the earth.

PETER WROTE:

We must be slowly improving because human civilizations have gotten larger and more complex. We are solving problems never before imagined.

DON REPLIES: gag! This statement absolutely convicts you. In an age where ONE PERSON can take out thousands and does so regularly, you imagine we're getting better! We have more problems than ever before and you're worldview is completely out of sync with reality. You, My Friend, are the victim of believing in lies because you have not hunted for the truth with all your body, spirit and mind. Relieve the world of these absolutely bureaucratic, nightmarish governments and bind them down by the chains of our Constitutions to the limited powers we explicitly contract with them. Rebuke them for having trashed our law and freedoms. Bring them to swift justice and reclaim our land . . . if it can be reclaimed.

PETER WROTE:

We still pollute, we still hurt, we still make mistakes but that is alright, so long as we still learn to try and improve ourselves. Going backwards is not improvement, it is regression and that is where I part with those seeking greater individual freedoms.

DON REPLIED:

John it is YOU and your people who have gone backwards to the civil law concepts which our forefathers fled and bled to get away from. This is a part of history you and your comrades know nothing about. Of course, your leaders know, and they have duped you into calling our precious government a "DEMOCRACY" and you have proudly become their change agents. You have parted company with those who abide the LAW, and have joined with those who -- by your own admission -- seek fewer individual freedoms. You should be locked up for what you have done to the country. Without even thinking about changing the law, you have simply violated it. You and your kind are as un American as you can get. Talk to me, Peter, about this violation of law. How can you justify violation before an authorized change? And even in your ignorance, don't you believe those who simply violate the Supreme Law of the Land, without changing the laws, should be thrown in jail???

PETER WROTE: That concept directly conflicts with the social need for having confidence, assurance and trust in the efforts by others on whom we must depend because we simply don't and can't do it all.

DON REPLIED: Actually, it does just the opposite and I keep asking you to prove it. This you will not even attempt, because there is no precedent for it. It's your complete guess, and your guess is supposed to rule!?

And you have directly assured this social unrest. You and yours are the conflict, because you did not change the LAW. You simply violated it. "Legalized plunder". Frederic Bastiat.

Your Friend, Don Wood

Peter,

I meant to say that "John" is "John Q. Public." Most of them are guilty. I just didn't want to hang all the weight upon you. But you've been given your cease and desist notice. I'd pay careful attention because your thinking and ability to express it could save a lot of people.

Best!

Don Wood

Don,

God says 'obey,' not 'enjoy obeying' (although enjoying it is the surest way to make sure you'll know to continue).