The terms, 'democracy' and 'republic' and 'socialism' and communism' et al are tossed around; and yet how many Americans understand the truth which each represent.
Which form of government produces the freest of peoples?
Which form of government creates the strongest fortification against tyranny? We realize, of course, that tyranny can blossom (and does) from all forms of government. But what form of government will stave off tyranny best and longest?
And finally what form of government is guaranteed by law in the United States and upon what law and principle is that form of government guaranteed? What are the nation's source documents and from what paradigm do they spring?
Comments (17)
well, by my definition Communism is tyranny and socialism a grave abuse of power. Making either Democracy or Republic the best.
A Democracy is the only type of government I will ever hang my hat on.
USA IS A REPUBLIC WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE POWER. IN A DEMOCRACY, ONLY A VERY FEW ARE GIVEN POWER. THEREFORE THE NATION WAS SET UP TO BE A REPUBLIC.
Actually, in a true democracy the majority has the power. The problem is the majority can abuse minorities. Our Republic is supposed to generally do the will of the people without allowing minorities to get abused. This is offers the best opportunity for individual freedom.
But, What do the source documents declare as the lawful government of the United States? And have we in any wise abandoned that form of government?
It is all well and good to know what environment the other types of government produce and it is important that we examine those forms of government and their results.
But what were the founders views of Government. What form of government did they determine would be the best for the United States of America? Where do you find their explanations for their choices.
Do you think their choices should be abandoned and if so, why?
If you find that surreptitiously the foundation that they laid has been eroded by the unscrupulous, what should be done?
'hersanctuary'... you say the USA is a Republic "WHERE THE PEOPLE ARE SUPPOSED TO HAVE THE POWER" ... tell us, how does that translate? How is it that the people hold the power?
'John Tucker'... What is a "Democracy" and why do you favor it? Is that the type of government that was the foundation of the nation?
'clifton.hancock'... "Communism is tyranny and socialism a grave abuse of power. Making either Democracy or Republic ..." Not bad, but we can not go by your definition or mine (though in a fairly succinct manner you have indicated the relatively clear outcome of communism). But what makes a republic or a democracy better? Which one is best? What did the founders have to say about each?
'LoveAmerica'... "Our Republic is supposed to generally do the will of the people without allowing minorities to get abused." How is this accomplished?
For any who read this, it is easy to pontificate, for me more than most. So I am not trying to be obnoxious by asking questions; just the opposite.
I am attempting to encourage all to go to the source documents and examine the truth promulgated by the founding documents and subsequent writings of our founding fathers. And the most important question that I ask is, do we wish to abandon their wisdom?
Read "The Federalist Papers."
'antoinette_lasalle ... "Read "The Federalist Papers."
That is an outstanding suggestion.
If you were pressed to compress the writings of Hamilton, Madison, Jay and "Publius" in the F.P. in say, 500 words or less, what would you write?
Again our goal is to educate one another concerning the foundations of are government, is it not? And it is easy to say read the Federalist Papers, and some might even assent to it until they find that in paperback for the 85 papers fill 499 pages, eh?
And unfortunately in today's soundbite world it is difficult to get people to devote time to such an effort.
'antoinette_lasalle ... "Read "The Federalist Papers."
That is an outstanding suggestion.
If you were pressed to compress the writings of Hamilton, Madison, Jay and "Publius" in the F.P. in say, 500 words or less, what would you write?
It is easy to say read the Federalist Papers, and some might even assent to it until they find that in paperback form the 85 papers fill 499 pages, eh?
Unfortunately in today's soundbite world it is difficult to get people to devote time to such an effort.
'kpburk', 'jble' ... I have no problem with folks disagreeing with me, but 'jble,' you have voted on 210 discussions and yet haven't offered one comment or idea and your votes 'kpburk,' number 155 without one comment or idea.
Nearly every honest, thinking person is in agree that America is in serious trouble. Won't you join with us to try and find a solution?
op_tomlinson,
I think we need to slow down the pace quite a bit. I don't think a sound-bite approach to your very excellent questions will work. I am far from an expert. I am just beginning my own serious study of that very subject.
But let's say I was going to answer your questions. What would I say?
1. The terms, 'democracy' and 'republic' and 'socialism' and communism' et al are tossed around; and yet how many Americans understand the truth which each represent.
They all represent the same truth.
2. Which form of government produces the freest of peoples?
The one in which the people feel the freest.
3. Which form of government creates the strongest fortification against tyranny? We realize, of course, that tyranny can blossom (and does) from all forms of government. But what form of government will stave off tyranny best and longest?
They all tend toward tyranny, as you observe, and I am not sure that any of them do it better than any other.
4. And finally what form of government is guaranteed by law in the United States and upon what law and principle is that form of government guaranteed?
Democratic republican government is established by the U.S. Constitution, I believe.
5. What are the nation's source documents and from what paradigm do they spring?
The writing of the Creator upon the human heart, as Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence.
A democracy is two wolves and a small lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Freedom under a constitutional republic is a well armed lamb contesting the vote. -- Ben Franklin
'bluegold' ... another interesting fellow or gal ... 511 votes but no ideas, no comments. Help us with solutions. Join the discussion
'randalphillips' ... good Franklin quote and it in a nutshell explains the dangers of democracy. It gives a picture of what at least one of the founders believed concerning democracy. If he believed this, what was his solution? Please continue.
antoinette_lasalle ... I believe it is safe to say that none of us are experts. That may be a good thing considering what we see passed off as expertise these days!
The thing that is highly commendable is that you are willing to begin an examination of the founders writings, particularly the Federalist Papers (F.P)!
But what do you mean when you say that democracy, communism, socialism, and a republic "... all represent the same truth"
And is not 'the government that produces the freest people, is the one under which people feel the freest' a subjective answer and how is that helpful?
If there is not objective truth, can it lead to anything in the final analysis but chaos?
"They all tend toward tyranny, as you observe, and I am not sure that any of them do it better than any other."
Might I correct myself? I believe they all can but not all of the 4 must eventually lead to tyranny.
The question remains, which of the four will best stave off tyranny the best and why does it?
"And finally what form of government is guaranteed by law in the United States and upon what law and principle is that form of government guaranteed?
Democratic republican government is established by the U.S. Constitution, I believe."
I would encourage you to look at Art. 4 Sec. 4 of the Constitution and ponder it asking yourself why they considered it worthy/necessary for inclusion.
"What are the nation's source documents and from what paradigm do they spring?
The writing of the Creator upon the human heart, as Jefferson wrote in the Declaration of Independence."
Some might consider this an off hand answer, but in a nutshell you have stated that the US Constitution sprang forth from the principles of the Declaration of Independence and those came from the principles found in the Bible.
A profound answer.
If this is the case, If the principles of the founding documents spring forth from a divine source can they be lightly discarded?
Some might suggest that there is no God, but our government's founding fathers apparently not only believed He existed, but confirm such in their personal writings as well as the F.P. that you have already alluded to, that it is by His providence that America even exists!
And the question is not removed. Can we, should we, throw off that paradigm and what do we risk in so doing?
I will ask plainly now, why should a Constitutional Republic be considered the superior of the other form of Governments?
Is it not as 'randalphilips' rightly suggests when referring to B. Franklin's quote and also as Jefferson said, “The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.”
Because of man's lust for power and his perversion, does he not and have we not seen communism/socialism become a small ruling elite with an oppressed minority? Do we see anywhere in history where this is not so?
So then why is a Constitutional republic superior?
It is in the first word, constitution:
The system of fundamental laws and principles that prescribes the nature, functions, and limits of a government or another institution.
The document in which such a system is recorded.
The Constitution is the Supreme LAW og the land and under which every other law must abide.
It was written for the common man in common language, but our founders were far sighted and so we have THE FEDERALIST PAPERS. Because of them, the plain truth of the Constitution is verified.
The Constitution is there for WE THE PEOPLE to bind the three offices of public servanthood, the executive, the legislative and the judicial. All three are and have been in violation of their oaths for a very long time and must be reigned in and that very soon or we shall cease to be a nation of free men and women.
Even if you are an atheist, if you can pretend, as many of us believe, that we are accountable to an almighty God, then the Republic will work and freedom is restored. and here is how it can be done ... but we must have the will.
We are the American people. We belong to a Constitutional Republic based on the Constitution that our founding fathers ratified Sept 17, 1787. That document was based on the Declaration of Independence whereby we severed union with Great Britain. This nation was founded upon reverence toward, and trust in the providence of the Divine Creator and the Salvation found in his son Jesus Christ. Our Founding Fathers' writings are rife with the germ of this declaration; without the creator for help, guidance, and providence there would be no United States of America.
Because our founding documents declare not only the right before and provided by God, for not only our "life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" but also for that of our "posterity," we declare abortion to be anathema under our Constitution and all who declare otherwise are enemies of our Constitution and the republican form of government that it guarantees, Art. 4 Sec. 4.
Because Art. 1 Sec. 8 of the U.S. Constitution entrusts Congress with the, "power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States..." and because it is very specific as to how those taxes may be raised and because the IRS is under the Executive branch and because the sixteenth amendment was ostensibly never ratified by the necessary number of states, the IRS is an illegal bureaucratic agency which has no part or place in a constitutional republic, it must immediately be deconstructed and dispensed with; and immediately Congress must once again resume their responsibility in presenting to the American public each bill with what will be taxed to support that bill, i.e. road repair = gas tax.
Because only Congress shall have the right under Art. 1 Sec. 8, "To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures..." and the Constitution makes no provision for their abdication from that responsibility; the Federal Reserve, a private corporation which is answerable only to its shareholders and not to the people of the United States of America, it is an illegal entity, and encroaches upon the sovereignty of every citizen, it must immediately be abolished. Congress must once again take up its responsibility, even if the US chooses to use fiat money, as it has successfully many times in history. The US must once again become a nation that stands by its word and when it says a US dollar has a specific value, it must stand by that word.
Because the Tenth Amendment reserves all rights to the several states that are not explicitly declared in the US Constitution to be in the purview of the National Legislature and Executive Branch , the national representatives will forthwith cease and desist from all encroachment upon the states rights and repeal all federal laws that cannot be clearly supported by the U.S. Constitution.
Because there is no provision within the Constitution, for 'Executive Orders,' they will henceforth cease and all former executive orders shall be stricken from the record of the national government.
Because the Constitution was written for the common man's understanding, the Supreme Court will cease and desist from ostensibly finding penumbra whereby they, by judicial fiat, force upon the American public "laws" apart from, or in contradiction to legislation drafted within Congress. The Supreme Court shall henceforth resume its rightful and only lawful position of determining individual cases to the rescue of US citizens and by an act of its own will remove its oligarchical intrusion into creation of law.
Will the nation survive and return to its true free, republican form of government where our representatives, judges and the president are once again fettered by the law they swore to uphold? YOU will decide.
First an apology ... I have deviated from the dialectic. Could not sleep and got carried away. I welcome questioning of my assertions.
Secondly, 'adkocher' what are you and your ilk doing? 161 votes and yet, no comments, no ideas. Please don't simply nay say; add to the discussion, eh?
'kilpatds' ... 1 idea (a good and reasonable one by the way) but 0 comments and yet 1526 votes? You might want to engage more if you want folks to take your votes seriously
'gjohloc' ... 0 Ideas, 0 Comments, 751 Votes ... do you care to explain why you agree or disagree with anything you voted for, and if not, do you not think your pattern is a bit sophomoric?
soho2west
Member since : May-30-2009 (Verified)
0 Ideas, 0 Comments, 145 Votes
Please explain to us why we should listen to those of you who will vote up or down and yet will not explain why you agree with or rail against the ideas presented.