Open Government Dialogue
« Back To OpenGov - Open Government Brainstorm
Unalienable Birth Rights (Keep your law off my body)
Keep Federal and State Laws from violating my Birth Rights or Unalienable Rights.

1. All laws that say what a person can grow on there land should be null and void.Nature and Natures God gave us all herbs for us to use with our own free will..not Governments..

2.All laws that dictate what a person can use to heal themselves should be null and void. Keep your Laws off our bodies!!

3. All laws that dictate what a person can eat or otherwise inhale or digest should be null and void. Again keep your laws off our bodies!!

4. Agencies such as the FDA should only have the power of suggestion or recommendation. this would not be limited to the FDA but would extend to all agencies that have anything to do with Birth Rights Issues.

Why Is This Idea Important?

Because I was born with Rights that no man can give to me and no man can take away from me. I am free by birth to own and regulate my body,mind and soul. My God gave me free will and I will not falter or give up any of my my Birth Rights.
Comments
accountstealerz 9 months ago
Brilliant
Don Wood 9 months ago
HEAR! HEAR!

Do you know the FDA keeps medications and procedures away from the American public while places like India have been practicing that medicine successfully for up to five years before we get it!

I like the idea of keeping federal and state laws off or our bodies. You wanna smoke or inject something bad. That's your problem.
Jason Turuc 9 months ago
Are We Really Free?

They call us free
Who's to say?
We the people must put an end to all this madness
You're our only hope
The love has faded away
The flowers have fallen from our hair
Those times are gone
Forced to play along
We have been lead to what we have become
Forced to follow along
Or
Pay a price money, pain, incarceration, death among a few
Even the most respected and powerful people have tried to stand
And paid the price of life
They have raped and beaten us of our freedom
Forced to pay the price put before us
A circle of lies
A magic show
An illusion
For confusion
To deceive us
Our government
Our freedom

Lost like spores in the wind
We struggle to make ends meet
Raped of the money we make
Try to do what's right
Some take the easy way out
Lie, cheat, steal, and kill for their own benefits
We have been lead to what we've become
Raped of our freedom
Our voice
Our opinion
Raped of our hopes and dreams
Too many laws
Too many rules
Too much pressure
Pushed too much
Taxed on everything we do
Taxed on the money we make
Taxed on the money given to us
Taxed on the money we save
Taxed on the money we spend
Taxed to drive on our roads (Chicago tolls !!)
Taxed to park our cars
Taxed on the food we eat

Taxed on the medicine we buy
Taxed to live in our state
Where does it end?
Where does it go?
Taxed everywhere we go
So many lies, so little time
Our government is run like a business
The business is robbing us blind
And business is good
A business that excels must invest in itself
Invest in we the people and watch the business grow
Invest in our children
Invest in the less fortunate
Guide them
Provide them with care and understanding
Guide them to a better way of life
Help them overcome their problems
Don't give it to them!
Show them the way
Teach them how to play this game of life
Show them how to reach their hopes and dreams
Change the path of destruction
Guide our children

Don't force them
Give them a chance to be free
Show them the way it could be
Life is full of choices
The choice should not be made by you or me
It's an individual right
An individual choice
An individual goal or dream
Invest in us and see what we become
Save us from our own destruction
This is the path we are forced to follow
A change must come our way
For the end will never fade away
War is not the answer
We must combine as one for our words to be heard
"Power of the people"
Break the chains
Change the way you live today
You can make a difference
Look within yourself
You're the one
The time has come
Something must be done
High ranking officers

Government officials
Flaunt their power pampered with every desire
Fat pigs sitting on the hill
Crime, corruption, and conspiracy fill the air
Waste our hard-earned dollar
Enough to solve all debts
Raped and purged of our hard earned dollar
To provide for their luxurious extravagant life styles
As we the people struggle to survive and provide
Taxed to the hill
This will never end
We work for them!!
What they want they take
Taxed to the hill we pay the bill
We the people must take a stand against the man
For the children of this once great land
Too much power
Too much control
This is my life I hope you know
They play us like puppets
Forced to play along
They watch our every move and control what we do
Take our money
Take our freedom

What should we do?
It's up to you!!
Ruled by fat pig sitting on the hill
Forced to do as they say
They control us in every way
No stopping this brutal machine
Overrun
Over powered
Pushed too much
The children of this once great land
Have begun to rebel against all
What has happened?
Can't you see?
They are controlled in every way
All they want to do is play
Why can't that be?
They are restricted so much
They have only a few roads to go
To follow along led like the dead
To live a life of crime
Not to care about anyone else including themselves
Confused no motivation of where to go
Always searching for a way to escape

Drugs, crime, rebellion
Any way to be different
At least not appear to follow
What's to come?
Where does this road go from here?
Take a stand lend a hand
Take a stand It's our life
Can't you see?
You can set us free!
Help us decide how to lead them the way
Our government doesn't care about you
There are plenty more to pay the bill
Grow a plant go to jail
No room for you
Set um free
Murderers, rapist let um free
How can that be?
Smoke a bud feeling fine
Go to jail lose your mind
No room for you
Set um free
Murderers rapist let um free
Why should this be?

Crimes committed they should pay
Smoke a bud
Feel the love
Who did we hurt?
Drink a beer I'll make you run in fear
Mary Jane set me free
We have all had enough
Drowning in the fear
Pushed too much
We have been lead to what we have become
The young are getting younger
Drink it if you can buy it
Smoke it if you know who's got it
Drink and lose control
Smoke and feel your soul
The young are getting younger
To hide from the fear
Loss of control
Pushed too much
No one’s there to help them with their fear
Loss of control
Lack of freedom
Nothing left to do

The children should be taught about life
Shown what to expect
What could be placed before them
Show them the road they can take
Which way it will go
Give them control of their destiny
Why can't that be?
It's your life anyway!
We all have grow up to fear the man
It's time for us to take a stand
We have a reason to feel the fear
For the past has revealed the truth
When we have taken a stand
They have beaten us
Taking away our right to have our own opinion
The blood has fallen from us all
Know it or not we are not free
Freedom of speech is no longer free
Open your eyes take a good look around
How can you let this be done?
Have we all lost the motivation to even stand?
Look what they have done to our children
Look at yourselves where would you be?

I beg you!
Open your eyes take a good look around
Seen enough?
Take a stand
#uck the man!
Take a stand who's the man?
I bet you can
Combine together using our words
We will be heard!
More powerful than a fist full of anger
They can’t stop the production of paper and ink!!
So what do we have to fear?
stevensje 9 months ago
But fear itself.

We can do what we want. Nothing is impossible in the world. Why go the path of distruction and unhappiness for a few elite to rule like kings and queens?

Where is that island where they go to live after they robbed, killed, and lied to us? They didn't die or go to prison. Long time leaders didn't just suddenly die. Dead men tell no tales? Suddam's head rolling down on live TV was just too Hollywood for me. What harm did that do to our children? Suddam friend of powerful people in the US (and X-CIA trained guy) didn't just die. That raised a Red Flag in my mind.

When one thinks of the events and lies over the last twenty years it is more than Hollywood could make up for a good TV movie. It would not believed.

Government is set limits and rights, as stated in the Constituiton, by the people not the other way around.

Keary Prophet 9 months ago
http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/6688-4049
another idea that wont see the lite of day is this response post to which this site would not post my trial by jury idea.
terry owens 9 months ago
I agree with you 100% my friend.The government needs to be shown that citizenship doesn't = ownership.
stevensje 9 months ago
Government is limited and has certain rights by our Constitution. Not the other way around.
Don Wood 9 months ago
Stevensje,

Sorry to correct you. Government has ZERO rights and only certain delegated powers. Make sure we get that straight!!!

Don wood
sobi 9 months ago
Yes, excellent. Related to that is stay out of the doctor's office, and leave the woman's reproductive organs alone.

I'm glad to see you support abortion, Don.
Don Wood 9 months ago
Sobi, you're becoming quite a comic. The petition is "Unalienable Birth Rights (Keep your law off my body)" and includes ALL humans, including those who are not yet born. If conceived, they have an unalienable right to be born.

Don Wood
Keary Prophet 9 months ago
Thanks for clearing that up Don!!!
sobi 9 months ago
Nope, they don't Don.

My womb, my choice.

Keary Prophet 9 months ago
Its sad to see only 68 people have agreed with this sense I posted it...I wish the ones who voted against it would go read the Declaration of Independence,The Constitution and the Bill of Rights.They may find this idea is revolutionary and very much in line with our Founding Fathers idea of Life,Liberty, and happiness...All the things that makes freedom so great..The Unalienable Right to own and regulate our bodies and our land as we see fit.
Truth is though, Freedom means responsibility and most people don't want that they would rather give there freedom to the federal government so they don't have to be responsible for it..Sad!!
Don Wood 9 months ago
Sobi,

It might be your womb, but it is not your life. What a sick, SICK perversion, Sobi, to imagine you have a choice over someone's life. It's not a choice, it's a baby. Sick, SICK, *SICK!* You're the epitome of what's wrong with our country. "And every man did what was right in his OWN eyes." I would like to hear your defense against this>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU&feature=email

We can now SEE the evil you have committed and continue to commit, and I'll have to stick with scripture against your ideas on this, that your heart is already so hard that God will harden it even more (as he did Pharaoh's), and as he promises to do in 2Th 2 to those who have no love for the Truth so as to be saved. Our country deserves to be trashed due to our hard heartedness. You will be sent such a strong delusion so that you will believe a lie, making your lie visible to all who desire to KNOW the Truth. God has condemned your idea and I pray you will turn around.
sobi 9 months ago
yawn.
Don Wood 9 months ago
Sobi, since the video is about 8 minutes long, and you replied to me within that time frame, you've let the whole world know the truth of my proclamation. Your heart belongs to Pharaoh. No further comments with you are necessary. Don Wood
Jason Turuc 9 months ago
The way I see it this is America and we are or should be free. That don't mean others have to live there lives or make the same difficult choices the same way you would Don. So make your own choices and live your own life as you see fit. If you want to live your life according to your "good book" So be it, but don't force your views or you way of life on others.
Keary Prophet 9 months ago
I dont agree with abortion my self..however I did support a petition on womens rights... Seeing both sides like I do is often a blessing and a curse!!!
Don Wood 9 months ago
Hi Jason, You're right, we SHOULD ALL be free. I advocate that idea, myself. However, I reserve the personal right to call an idiot what he/she is. Ignorance is curable, but idiocy is a terminal condition.

I do not advocate laws making homosexuals doing what they do in the privacy of their bedroom illegal. They are only sinning against their own flesh. If they can't see that from all the evidence that's out there, let their bodies be ruined. That's their choice. Same with drugs. There should be no laws disallowing a person to destroy their own life. Probably, the sooner our society is rid of the lot, the better off we would all be. "Victimless Crimes" is a TOTAL non sequitur and outside the legal, moral and righteous perimeter of protecting life, liberty and property.

A murderer, however, is a menace to everyone, and particularly of the unborn who cannot protect themselves. That the Sobi's of the world cannot see their own evil and are moved only by their raging, uncontrollable hormones is seen by all who love Truth to be what it is. They do only what is right in their OWN eyes regardless of the life they chose to end or jeopardize, and it does not and should not protect them from the police whose job it is to protect LIFE, liberty & property. What's the difference between a murderer or a murderer?

QUESTION: Is it murder when someone steps forward with a gun to kill the man who is using a child as a shield to get away? Is it murder when the kidnapper is using the child to get money? I think you probably follow my drift. The shooter of recent abortionist will be found guilty of murder under present law, but the LAW wasn't able to come to the defense of the defenseless. In another age and time, just such a person will be a hero who would save the lives of thousands of children. Too bad the first 60,000 couldn't have been saved, and then maybe we wouldn't be facing what no one can now deny out of whatever raging hormones: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU&feature=email

Jason, I respect your views, even if you currently disagree. But this is one opinion that is not subject to our opinions. Murder is murder unless it's in the only defense of the helpless that there is. Then it's the same as an intruder coming into your home to do your children harm. If we will not suffer the little ones, then who will? If we will not do it now, then when? Don Wood
Don Wood 9 months ago
Mr. Keary Prophet,

I'm all for women's rights too. But no person has the right to destroy another's LIFE! There is no middle ground here, and no room for my opinion or yours. Your life, belongs to you, not your mother or father, but to you. No one else. I can call my boy, MY son or my daughter, MY daughter, but I do not own their lives. If I abuse them, then I'm a molester or a killer. The right to LIFE is not open for opinions. PERIOD.

NO ONE has the right to kill anyone else, and the fact that this is such a "cloudy" issue only beams the true moral condition of such sick, SICK persons to the rest of the world.
Keary Prophet 9 months ago
Ok Don i think you've made your case...Now can we move this conversation to the right to abortion idea? If there is one!! This idea is to protect birth rights not take them away as you have made clear I'm sure. Murder is Murder I agree!! If you cant take care of your baby then there is always the adoption option.Why Kill?
elizabethatucker 9 months ago
I believe that there are a bunch of things that people do in this world/country which are wrong. Abortion is wrong, it is a horrible thing, on so many levels.

With that said, I still believe that everyone has "free will". We make mistakes, and go through trials, so that we may learn lessons in order to obtain enlightenment. I do not believe that anyone has the "right" to tell me or anyone what they can and can not do with their own body. Weather that be drugs, abortion, adultry, idoltry, etc... We all have our lessons to learn. We need to stop judging eachother and start judging ourselves.
Jason Turuc 9 months ago
Well said elizabethatucker
"life is a lesson, you'll learn it when you're through"
I love the saying fan or not Limp Bizkit hit the nail on the head with this lyric
elizabethatucker 9 months ago
Thanks Jason.
I also believe that every decision I make -from the greatest, right down to my most basic of responses to daily situations -is opportunity for a lesson learned.

Every comment I make, every bit of attention I pay, every glance I give, every time I take the opportunity to build up one of my brothers/sisters..., is an opportunity to strengthen my connection with humanity and the universal power, and in turn obtain enlightenment. Ie. learn a lesson.

How we treat eachother is more important than the laws in the books.

I believe that if we treated eachother better, on all levels - "social issues" like abortion, drugs, etc. would be less prevelent.

It seems as if people are most resistant to the most basic of truths... LOVE.

Cheeeezzzzy? YEPPER. But true.
terry owens 9 months ago
I agree that it's our own bodies to with as we will,but the act of abortion is the most brutal atrocity that ever been so widely accepted in all of human history.Don Wood hit the nail on the head when he said that to take a human life is murder regardless of whether it's a violent crime victim or in the clinical setting of an abortion clinic.When a doctor take the physicians oath,they must swear to do no harm.What could be more harmfull than to butcher a helpless baby?A baby who's only crime was to be concieved by heartless parents who don't want to be bothered with the responsibility of caring for a so called unwanted child.I can understand if it was a one time thing,because passions rage and things happen,but to use abortion as means of birth control is really a crime against humanity.Abortion on demand is the product of degenerate mind's who have no concept of morality nor places any value on human life.When a baby is in their mother's womb,they have a body wich consist of hand's,leg's,feet,fingerprints and a brain.They also have emotions and the number one emotion they feel is unconditional love for their mother.How can any parent who pays a doctor to murder their child or any so-called doctor who's lively hood consist of killing babies,dare to say that they are member's of the human race?You know it's really a travesty of justice when a 16 year old child can,with or without her parent's knowledge or consent pay a doctor to kill her unborn baby.Not to mention the fact that many sexual predators are saved from prosecution because the girl is never asked one time who the father is.It's really a travesty of justice to think that while all this is taking place,it's illegal in most states for a hard working,tax paying citizen to smoke a joint in the privacy of their own homes.What's wrong with this picture?How can a state outlaw the death penalty for murderer's and child molester's and still allow abortion on demand to continue unabated?
The whole abortion industry is founded on selfishness and greed.Selfishness on the part of the million's of parent's who ignore their most basic parental instinct's by paying a "doctor" to kill their child.The greed, are the doctor's who make millions by killing children.This isn't bible thumping,,this is common sense.
sobi 9 months ago
Oh by all means, hold that rape victim in prison until she delivers the issue of the rapist. That will teach her to get raped.


elizabethatucker 9 months ago
Jedidaddy, I do understand your passion and I see your point of view. I agree that abortion is a horrible thing.

But I must say that your post seems extremely judgmental. I dont see any empathy, or compassion in your writing... Empathy for the human beings who are in pain, and in turn harming themselves, and their unborn child, not to mention the grandparents, sisters/brothers etc... This is my whole point. These are social - moral issues, and will not change no matter what the law books say.
Jason Turuc 9 months ago
Once again WELL SAID! elizabethatucker
finally someone with some common Sense and an open mind!!!

jedidaddy I am not interested in changing your views or disputing them. My point is that just because others don’t agree with your views on abortion, drugs or whatever they maybe does not mean we should have laws that try to force others to obeyed by your way of life or thinking.

If your interested in disputing the abortion topic try one of these posts
http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/searchPanel.do?query=abortion&x=13&y=10
terry owens 9 months ago
I'm for the value of human life.Both for the born as well as the unborn.Have you or any of you ever thought about what kind of mentality it takes to kill a unborn baby?Do any of these abortion practicioner's have children of their own?If they do then how can can they face them with the blood of hundred's if not thousand's are still on their hand's?When did it become acceptable to equate a unborn child with a cancerous tumor?The whole abortion industry stinks of the same cold blooded heartless way of thinking that it took to carry out Hitler's final solution of the Jewish question.I do have compassion Elizabeth and I also have a passion for life and defending life.Far too many people refuse to recognize the humanity of a unborn fetus just like the nazi's refused to accept the Jews as being a part of the human race.I have three children and I hate child killers.If adult's want to smoke pot then they should have the right to do,but when it come's to the murder of of our future,then something has to be said and done to stop this senseless holocaust.
terry owens 9 months ago
Jason Turoc,
Do you have any children of your own?
If not then how can you justify injecting a corrosive acid into the lungs of a unborn baby?Or how can you justify inserting a tube into the cranium of a baby and sucking their brains out?You're probably a teenager with zero life experience and have not one shred of morality like most young people in your generation as well as the generation I grew up in.
sobi 9 months ago
Again, my womb, my call.

But, just to stir the pot a little more, and to give the pontificating sanctimonious more food for ranting, I'm going to take my turn at the podium.

There isn't a man that has a valid opinion on what I should do with my womb. The logic behind this is simple. It is my womb. You may do what you wish with your own.

In response to reproduction, men claim equal rights, but they do not take equal responsibility. I'm not talking about the proud inseminaters of multiple women, they are irrelevant to my point.

My point is that before men are granted equal say, they must take equal responsibility, and they don't.

How many men fight for male birth control? That is where you take initial responsibility. There is nothing sacred in the male reproductive system that is so above the public concern that it must not be tampered with.

When men genuinely want reproductive equality, they will take reproductive responsibility and there will be evidence on the market of this with a wide variety of male birth control products because the careful male population will demand it, just as women had to do.

Until then, moralize all you want. I don't think your input merits consideration.

And frankly, we won. Women with wombs won.

Got it?

My womb, my choice.
terry owens 9 months ago
Rape and incest make up less than one tenth of one percent of all abortions performed.This argument is a smoke screen the abortionist use to lure more and more women into the abortion clinic's.Even if it were the product of rape or incest,are any of you in the position to play God and get to decide who lives and who dies just because you don't agree with the circumstances of a pregnancy?In case any of you haven't noticed,more and more of our youth are becomimg increasingly anti abortion.So if any of you pro baby murderer's want to condemn me then face the fact that abortion is the ACT OF TAKING A HUMAN LIFE,,,,,PERIOD.
My name is Terry By God Owens and I will fight abortion until the day I die.
terry owens 9 months ago
Sobi,
This issue isn't a just a woman's issue.It's a human issue and if you can't see that then you are either a non parent or a lesbian and in either case your opinion is moot.I have zero pity for the baby murderer who was inturned murdered recently and when you and all those like you die,I will have no sympathy either.If you support murder then you should be murdered.If you make your living by commiting murder then you should be murdered the same way a unborn baby is murdered in abortion clinics all throughout this country.By the way my name is Terry Owens and to hell with you all!
sobi 9 months ago
"Because you don't agree with the circumstances of a pregnancy?"

!!!!!!!

OMG, LOL

This is in regard to the right of a rape victim to remove the crime from her womb.

Yikes!
sobi 9 months ago
It is a woman's issue. It has always been a woman's issue. It will always be a woman's issue.

The only thing men have contributed to this issue is to cause the death of women on the abortion black market. How utterly human of you.

Women didn't used to even consider consulting men on this issue. It was a common understanding that it belonged, and still does belong, to us.

You are either a moron or a gopher. ???? WTF? You haven't got a clue who or what I am. But, just so you can rest that weary imagination of yours, I'm 54, a widow, mother of 2 sons.

accountstealerz 9 months ago
Sobi, it's an ethical question and although indeed, you are keeping the mother in mind - you are not keeping the doctor in mind.

If the law remains that it's in the woman's hands to dispose of her baby, technically, what you are agreeing with is that the mother should kill her own child.

Because technically, otherwise, you're making it a law for a doctor to kill your baby. Doctors don't like being murderers, and yes - some of them see it as murder.

So good luck discussing the ethics with everyone in your life and coming to the best conclusion. I'll be rootin' for some rationality.
sobi 9 months ago
Exactly how many doctors are forced to perform abortions?
elizabethatucker 9 months ago
Everyone! Abortion is a social/moral issue...for BOTH men and women...

Sobi, I believe that you are coming from a "modern womens liberation" point of view, regarding the abortion issue. I believe that that the age of womens liberation was the begining of the end, regarding the fall of morality in our society. Yepper, I am a woman, and I said it. But hear me out.

Womens liberation was intended to give women a fair ground in the workplace, and in the legal system, to make things fair and just. But now it has evolved into something else, with competition and "winning" as the prize. Well, Sobi, as you said, "we won". But what exactly did we win? We won the right to pretend that we are happy competing with men, having meaningless sex, and controlling our uterus'. YEAH! More power to ya' if thats the kind of power you want.

I personally want to be truly loved and nurtured. To be safe and sound with a family who loves me, and whom I support under all circumstances... This is what I believe we all want, but we have been confused somehow.

Bottom line, all of the issues mentioned in this thread, including abortion, are of a social nature... the topic of this thread..."Keep your law off my body", is about weather or not the govt. should have the power to make unilateral moral judgments regarding its citizens, and the answer is, NO.

By the way, I dont think that anyone "supports abortion" per se'..., as noone would argue that it is a horible, painfull and sad ordeal. But I do support your right to choose and learn from your mistakes.


sobi 9 months ago
Men are welcome to consider it a social moral issue provided they leave wombs alone.

We were not the source of the fall of morality. That is the same argument that held a young girl morally responsible for a young couple's uninhibited expression of morality. Women are not properly assigned the entire moral burden.

Women's liberation ****IS**** not limited to the workplace. The legal and public face of women's liberation began with the vote.

That horrible, horrible business world out there is a product of rampant greed and capitalism because they are held in high esteem. Of course it sucks.

I am not compelled to pretend much of anything. That's more of a personal choice than something one can assign to women's liberation per say. I never smiled and said I'm happy being wonder woman, doing half the man's job, all the woman's job, getting paid less, and jumping in bed to reward his failure in spite of my lack of interest (translate: exhaustion).

I already have the power I want, thanks. I'm just adamant that no one will be taking it away.

I disagree intensely that my womb is a social issue. It isn't. It is mine. That is the core of my message.

terry owens 9 months ago
No Sobi,it's a human issue.To kill a innocent life is murder no matter how you look at it.The goverment refuses to keep record's of all the women who suffer from suicidal depression after an abortion or all the women who have died while recieving an abortion.I'm not bible thumping.I'm simply asking you and other's of like mind to consider for a moment that you have the greatest responsibility in the world and with that responsibility you ,as a member of the human race have the obligation to protect any child that is concieved in your womb.Now I'm not negating the responsibility of the male factor in this issue,but trying to solve a relationship problem or dissolve a relationship just because two people were horney enough to have sex,but not comitted to each other enough to raise a child is no reason to kill a unborn baby.The very first abortion clinic in this country suffered through 60,000 abortions in 6 months.By the time those 6 months were over,almost all of the nurses were suffering from severe depression as well as other personality disorder's.These people had to put aside all compassion and human instinct to kill those 60,000 infant's and they each paid a dear price as a result.All of this is a matter of public record and you can check it out for your self.I work with women and I served with them in the military,and I have nothing but respect for them and their right's.But this abortion issue is a human issue and it's not merely a matter of a woman's right to choose.If abortion was legal and practiced 2,000 years ago,then we would not be here right now to argue about all this.I'm not stating my point of view.I'm just laying down the facts to you as best I can and in a way that you will listen to.My challenge to you is this.Have a child of your own and watch a video of an abortion and then look at your child and then email me at jedidaddy@ymail.com or look me up on myspace under my name Terry Owens and tell me how you feel in your inner most soul how you feel about abortion.God bless you and Shalom.
terry owens 9 months ago
Elizabeth Tucker,
I read you comment and I agree with you almost 100%,but abortion isn't just a social issue,it's a human issue.Regardless if you are a man or woman it's a human issue.To say the contrary is to say that men and women are different species.I have three children and I wouldn't trade one day with them for a life I could have had without them and my wife feel's the same way.God bless you and America.
Don Wood 9 months ago
Terry Owens,

Chill! You're trying to reason with the unreasonable. The "We Won!" crowd has not faced an angry God as yet. And the youth are rethinking the unthinkable too. But God calls the right to revenge and He's given quite enough evidence as to the atrocity of their acts as in the Muslim Demographics video I have given to prove them wrong. They haven't even mentioned it! Nevertheless, it IS even a MORE terrible thing to fall into the hands of an angry God. The pitiful kids put to death are in the kingdom of God, and that's the only solace we can find.

Of course, we have a moral responsibility to not let them kill, and I'm with you on that fight until the end. There are at least three persons here who say they don't "like" abortion, but who would do it anyway. They have said so and have a shiftless worldview like the tossing waves of the sea, and there is one good book in particular which says of them that they are unstable in ALL of their ways. Their speeches here only prove it. So, there's no need to get too excited about it.

Those who equate their wombs with the right of it's production are known for their scare mongering to try to get their own way to kill, but reasonable people can see that their fight should have been for we males to take equal responsibility. Some of us do, and those who don't ought to be as culpable as the female who murders. Some are. To this, however, they gave up their fight and reason and turned to murder. They actually condone it, so there is simply no way to reason with them. They have already been turned over to God's wrath, and to that they either say, "There is NO GOD" or "NO, GOD!" A lot of good THAT's going to be for them. He who laughs last, laughs best. In either case they have acknowledged the reality but shout ever so loudly that they fear nothing. Something like the one who whistles in while walking in the dark to keep from being afraid. So, let them be, and rescue as many of their kids as we can with whatever we can do to murderers by controling their wanton sick, SICK lives.

Also, Terry, we should agree with them when they say, "It's a women's issue!" It clearly is!!! But remember, it was not the man who was deceived. It was the woman and some are still proving this with their behaviors. We witness it on this very thread once it came down to abortion. I wondered for the longest time about one of them in particular as to what they were all about. I should have been able to guess she was both female and an abortionite, son of the Devil, because of her unstable contradictory comments. While the man didn't take his authority and responsibility when in the Garden or now, it is still the women God will judge when they stand before him as CONVICTED murderers. They will squeal about "black market" abortionists, and this or every other evil ... except their own. No child, even the product of a criminal rape, is to be killed. There are many people today crying to have that baby ... any baby.

The presupposition of the womb itself bedevil's them: God gave to woman-kind their wombs, but it is wholly for conception, development and delivery. It's a magnificent organ wholly dedicated to LIFE and NOT one part is designed for death. The woman who disagrees, says, "NO, God!" and obviously has a bit of a problem with obedience just as in the beginning. Tch, tch, tch, tch. She is incapable of discerning whose property belongs to whom. God gave the womb for procreation and some would turn it into a grave yard? They will have some ready arguments for the Creator, you think?
terry owens 9 months ago
When a woman who pays to have her unborn baby murdered or a so-called doctor who perform's abortion's for their way of living stand's before a holy omnipotent and omnipresent creator God.They will have no word's to say.They know that they are damned and deserve to burn in hades until after the great white throne and then they can burn in the lake of fire until the end of eternity.Judging from these post and comment's there are far too many people who think that there is no God or a final judgement beyond the grave for the act act of pretending to be God by choosing to decide who is fit to live and who's not.This line of thinking was refined and perfected by the SS way back in 1942 at the Wansee conference in Berlin Germany.Today it's a woman's issue,but tomorrow who know's where this line of thinking will lead.If the abortionist had their way all children with autism or any form of mental retardation would be put to death.
We have such a tolerant society now days.I just can't help but think that one day a generation will grow out of the ashes of this one and judge this one and take the proper step's to ensure that unfit parent's as well as all baby murderer's get what they deserve.
sobi 9 months ago
Oooga boooga, you think bad things, my god burn you for sure, good to see.

You two lack the moral foundation to make judgments.
sobi 9 months ago
Abortions per year, USA 1.5 million -- India 11 million

India legalized abortion to reduce population. Didn't work.

LOL
Don Wood 9 months ago
How to find percentage and show an interesting statistic:

Take the total possible number and divide by the real number to find the percentage.

USA has 300,000,000 (three hundred million people), and India has 1,300,000,000, (one billion three hundred million).

300,000,000 minus 1,500,000 = 298,500,000 divided by 300,000,000 = 99.5%
1,300,000,000 minus 11,000,000 = 1,289,000,000 divided by 1,300,000,000 = 99.1%

Statistically speaking, "Christian America" is just slightly higher than a "heathen, idol worshiping nation." That's the good of Christianity in America?
sobi 9 months ago
Just making sure you're awake, like I know you are. LOL
Jason Turuc 9 months ago
hey jedidaddy your dead wrong with your jaded view about me I do have kids actually one of my children is not biologically mine and even though I have divorced I still am a big part in his life. I still raise him. I am still his dad. So no I am not a teenager. I have a lot of life experience far more than you because you are stuck in the only world you know, which is the world you created in your own mind. Well welcome to reality people are different than you. They see things differently and make different decisions than you. That is life like it or not. You must not have read my past comment to you fully. I said “jedidaddy I am not interested in changing your views or disputing them. My point is that just because others don’t agree with your views on abortion, drugs or whatever they maybe does not mean we should have laws that try to force others to obeyed by your way of life or thinking. If your interested in disputing the abortion topic try one of these posts” http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/searchPanel.do?query=abortion&x=13&y=10
You have a right to your own opinion and I think that’s great. The problem I have and the difference between people like you and me is I allow people like you to have your own views. You on the on the other hand try to impose your thoughts and views on others regardless of topic Abortion aside.
As far as all the God comments I am a humanist http://www.americanhumanist.org That don’t make me a bad person same goes for “a God loving person” That does not make them a good person. Just because you say you believe in god and are ”a god loving person” doesn’t mean you can molest little boys or commit other crimes, and somehow be protected. Because you have god in your life does not give you clemency . If god is going to make me pay so dearly for being who I am then I will pay. I am a good person, I am kind caring and loving without god in my life. If that makes me a bad person just by not having god in my life I’m confused. I’m happy with my life and with who I have grown to be. Living peacefully
terry owens 9 months ago
Let me say this again in case you were too stoned to get my point,Sobi and Jason.
To kill a child whether in the womb or outside of it is murder and that's not my world view,it's plain common sense.Sobi,you have no morals and you probably have not one child of your own.Jason,you sure seem to know a lot about molesting little boys.I'm not a idol worshipping catholic,but even still, thought's about molesting little boy's never enter my mind,but apparently you have some issues in that area.
Don Wood 9 months ago
Jason,

No one has a right to an opinion about murder. Murder IS murder. Period. No one has any right over a person's death in or outside the womb. All the properties of the womb preclude death in every way. It is the WHOLE of life. Legal, moral and logical presupposition is for life and not for death! Blood on the hands of those who attempt to dump the properties of LIFE for those of a grave yard does cry out from the ground to be saved. One day, the law is certain to be clear that abortion is murder. But if you should die before abortions are illegal, there is an ultimate judge you'd better plan on trying to convince to your way of thinking.

Yeah, right!
Jason Turuc 9 months ago
Lol I love the commit about being too stoned lol Actually I am quite sober and have been for quite a while now. I think free people show be free to consume a plant that is far less dangerous than alcohol without penalty of law. “god” gave us this plant right?
Genesis 1:29. Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you."
And tasty food it is
Don’t try to twist my words my commit about molesting little boys you obviously knew what I was referencing. You brought up the word catholic in your attack on me. This minor detail has very little to do with the point I was making. Let me spell it out for you. So put you bible down and clear your mind for a minute. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE GOD IN YOUR LIFE DOES NOT MAKE YOU A GOOD PERSON! Nor does is give you clemency for crimes you may commit. That was my point. All your reference and attack toward me about abortion. I do not get I said over and over and I support your right to your own views on abortion or any other issue for that matter. The problem I have and the difference between people like you and me is I allow people like you to have your own views. You on the on the other hand try to impose your thoughts and views on others regardless of topic ABORTION ASIDE.
That means reread the commit and take the issue of abortion out of it and insert a different topic. The point I was making is you impose your thoughts and views on others REGARDLESS OF TOPIC.
You must need some practice reading so here read this again jedidaddy I am not interested in changing your views or disputing them. My point is that just because others don’t agree with your views on abortion, drugs or whatever they maybe does not mean we should have laws that try to force others to obeyed by your way of life or thinking.

If your interested in disputing the abortion topic try one of these posts
http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/searchPanel.do?query=abortion&x=13&y=10
This post is not all about god and abortion so If you haven’t already done so you can pick you bible back up and bow your head. Now you go you go away now free to be who you are at let others do the same with peace and love for all in your heart

sobi 9 months ago
If you believe _______ then you are ________ or maybe __________ but not __________.

Fill in the blanks anyway you want, it is an invalid assertion and usually indicates a want for valid argument.
sobi 9 months ago
To he who will no longer use my name, (LOL)

There is no such thing as a right to an opinion. People are in possession of opinions because it is human nature. There is no denial of opinion, only a denial of an opinion in itself or a denial of a platform from which one might offer their opinion.

That is called free speech. Selective free speech is an oxymoron. It is free or it isn't. One is pregnant or not.

sobi 9 months ago
Why are those who are convinced that people asserting a right to an abortion not comfortable with the idea that these same said people will be called to answer.

If you believe your god will do his thing on judgment day, be grateful and content with that faith.

I think twas he who claimed ownership of vengeance, and called upon his followers to leave that job to him.

If there is a need to proxy for the lord, should you not wait at least for the tap on the shoulder before you do so?

sobi 9 months ago
Don,

I watched the video. The link in your comment addressed to me didn't work, btw.

The video is a population demographic argument saying essentially, if Christians don't have more babies, Islam will take over strictly through a numbers thing.

What would that have to do with me? I'm not a Christian.

It also weakens your moral argument when you use that as a reason against abortion. That is a religious war.

Having heathens like myself giving birth does not improve your odds on the religious war. Besides, my personal day is done anyway.

It is generally true that repressed and poverty stricken populations reproduce at much higher rates. It seems a confusing argument against abortion.

There, I have commented on your video.

I can see how important this is to you. I don't mean to diminish that. I don't. You could mellow a touch if you want arguments persuasive, but there's no moral argument that says stifle your passion, just your condemnation.
elizabethatucker 9 months ago
It seem like you guys just want to pick apart eachothers words, and argue for the sake of argueing. For some reason, asserting your independence of others is satisfying to you, and more important than finding common ground. You are all "right" in your own ways..., its called perspective.
Don Wood 9 months ago
Hi Elizabeth,

What do you suggest as "common ground" for murder? I have not been able to imagine anything other than that it can only be found amongst the guilty at the gallows.

The idea of each man being right in his own eyes, in modern language means that whatever is true for one person isn't necessarily true for another. Such an idea violates the law of absolutes which has been recognized since antiquity. Something cannot "be" and "not be" at the same time. Do you suppose modern western civilization would survive where such an idea would cease to exist? Could it be one of the reasons we are facing so much turmoil in our country today? Would we have to learn this all over again? At what consequences?

Elizabeth, based upon what you have said here, aren't even you "right in your own eyes?" But, "there is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death." There is only right to kill or right to life. These are absolutes, even for those who claim there are no absolutes, for in the moment of giving their absolute, they prove the supposition and convict themselves by saying, "Nothing is absolute!" How do we suppose they can say there are no absolutes when such a statement IS an absolute? America has erected a god of zero absolutes in the face of, "God is not mocked." When we go back and study our American civilization that was based upon a morality of Judeo-Christian absolutes, the general condition of the Union is found to have been stable and reflected a sanity we can only attribute to less complex times. Ha! Man's nature has not changed since he was first put on the earth.

When people only want "pick apart other's words," I drop them even as you can read the history above, but there are some words that simply have to be talked about to see Truth. Your words, for example, for abortion are "horible, painfull," a "sad ordeal," and "mistakes that one can learn from." Such words do not approach the level of a Theodore Bundy or a "Dr." "Tiller the Killer" of over 60,000 human beings, with the common ground of the lusts of their own fleshly desires, money or sex. So, when you support the horrible, painful, sad mistakes, you're worldview is proves to be one of compromise over the murder issue. If you were caught in an embarrassing situation, or didn't think you could afford an unwanted child, you would give in to murder? Did you? Is this why you say the things you do to not take responsibility for what you did?

Does it not strike you strange and uncommon of so many mothers, especially, and even fathers killing their kids these days for this or that what other fleshly reason? They have sunk so low they don't even value their own lives? When, except in modern times, has the womb become a battle ground which spilled over into killing born children and well past the age of birth?

I have given a link in several of these discussions about Muslim Demographics. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK1pnCldKZI. There is a truth there that one cannot argue against. I am not certain about the numbers, but understand the message. Lemme ask you, Elizabeth, who would you rather have as a neighbor? Christians or Muslims? I doubt you're wishing and wanting Shira Law down on your head as a woman, (!) but we actually have posters here who ARE wishing that, whether they can equate their consequences into their heads or not. Actions DO speak louder than words. And in the final analysis, as we only have words to come to Truth, do not belittle words, for even you must use them, and DO PLEASE witness: Thick headed people actually get thicker, and people not wanting Truth actually believe lies. It's all too clear, we ALL get what we really want and what we really deserve whether we can admit it or not, and we should be jarred out of our superstitions with Truth -- if that is possible. Otherwise, I think we should just mark time while we mark them and leave them, except or until the law has come to its senses as to what we can do to prohibit their monstrous crimes.

Finally, Elizabeth, the "common ground" you're requesting is an invitation to commit murder. You're running up against the LAW of "the bad always chases the good away." If you're old enough, Federal Reserve Notes chased the United States Gold and Silver notes out of existence. Now you can only trade paper for another paper instead of a note for gold or silver. The nickel clad copper coins chased the silver ones away for what is called, "JUNK silver." I have some tucked away as the real money. It is an immutable law that "bad company corrupts good morals." I trust you know all of this. But, Elizabeth, it's either murder or it is not. There are not two different "rights." There is only one right and many wrongs. We have known for twenty-five years that it's simple murder, and that was the same day the abortionists finally acquiesced to using the term "abortion." Even then, they just got louder with phrases like, "My womb," my right to murder. They will confuse all who listen to them, but they cannot answer the questions and objections put to them. Indeed, they won't even try. Prior to that every euphemistic word one could think of or imagine was used, "Family Planning," etc. Abortion is murder and murderers should pay the ultimate price.

This issue HAD to come up in this thread. I think I've given very cogent arguments to which very, very little has been returned. "My womb equals "MY CHOICE," is not an argument as some of my arguments have pointed out. Some have simply returned hatred and put up public squelch sites against individuals whose arguments they can't beat. I also think LIFE has to win in the end, because there is simply no option for an opinion when it's a baby. Some need to hear it a thousand times to realize that they are wrong. That has been proven now for the last twenty-five years and those who don't like it will continue to say, "mass of tissue" and other like statements. Our youngsters are "getting it," though, and it needs to be said as many times as there is breath to convince even a few who can at last turn to many. To stop it. Don Wood
sobi 9 months ago
Dr. Tiller is dead. Was that murder? Was that killing right or wrong? What will god say to the killer? Should government put him to death?


sobi 9 months ago
Sometimes, Elizabeth, it is like arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

The argument sounds silly, but it isn't at core. And people argued this one passionately. It is a form of metaspeech. Underneath are very strong spiritual issues seeing the light of day.

Don's not speaking to me. Sad.

He reminds me of someone from a dozen years back that meant the world to me.
Don Wood 9 months ago
Interruptions have delayed my reply, Sobi. Write don dot wood dot 777 at gmail.com

Don
Don Wood 9 months ago
Sobi, would you give me one point?

Tiller was executed, rather than murdered. Right? HE WAS a murderer, and our laws normally put murderers to death -- without much exception. BUT we don't hang our executioners. Seems we, just like the Germans, figured that whatever statute we could pass made one life worth less than another, and thus morality was seen by those with such stinking thinking as a "non issue."

In another time, under a different set of morals, we would have applauded Tiller's executioner. But under those same circumstances, we'd probably have leveled some punishment against him for knowingly allowing it to go on for so long. Sixty thousands dead makes one wonder why a correction took so long.

No one would jail a person for killing a man breaking into your house. But baby's "homes" no longer enjoy either safety or defenders. Those most reasonably to be depended upon, trusted, were their mothers, the police, the courts and the citizens, but they all stood by and did nothing, even when they knew exactly what was going on and WHY.

All the presuppositions of LIFE were put away and rejected in favor of money and lust of the flesh. Haven't we accused the Germans who knew what was going on in World War II for ignoring their duties to LIFE? How are we any less guilty? Six million, as it turns out, is a rather small number compared to how many we have killed. Babies have been killed without anyone defending them. Not one of them wanted either to be killed or born. Neither did you or me. But each of us was given what every life is to enjoy, the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness from the first moment of conception. How do we think we have an opinion in this otherwise axiomatic matter? After all, the ONLY difference between a fetus conceived an instant ago from you and me is a few years, and a lot of oxygen, water & nutrition. This has been KNOWN for twenty-five years.

What will God say to the executioner? In America, the question is equal to, "What will the People do?" You will quickly and easily find it in the book of Romans, the 13th chapter. It may surprise you, but it will be difficult to imagine who the People are.

In reality that we no longer are a Republic, what will the government do? THAT's the question; We haven't had a jury trial in America for well over a hundred years (see http://fija.org), but that question will still come down for the veniremen to judge. Our Socialist government has become the very engine of uncertainty. Didn't used to be like that. So the veniremen had BETTER be educated to know that they have the right, power and DUTY to judge the law, facts and evidence, because as in ALL legal systems, spiritual or carnal, there is no exclusion for "ignorance of the Law." So, if they don't know THAT, then I can GUARANTEE you a judgment of guilt. Tiller's executioner will be executed or prisoned for life in this world. We also recognize the DUTY each and every one of us has before the LAW. I would think Tiller's killer (sorry I don't know his name), would only be able to use this as a defense and hope for a real jury trial.

This then, is just another of the many problems facing our country today for lack of Constitutional authority over most of their deeds and a moral People who required their servants to keep the Supreme Law of the Land (Art. 6. Sec.2 USC). With the loss of our Republic (which anniversary we don't need to debate), came too many of these kinds of problems, and People guilty as hell. And sincerely, Sobi, it's almost always the same (can you tell me why?), that the Green Peace whale watchers, seal saviors, duckie delighters and goose tuche whiners will complain about an almost non existent problem but which any ordinary farmer can explain, and still, knowingly allow their neighbor killer Tiller to live a respectable and unmolested life.

For these reasons, and only a dim memory of how dear LIFE used to be a few decades ago, I have ZERO doubt there will be a blood bath in the streets in the not too distant future. Some suggest this summer. I do not know, but I do KNOW it must come. I am not prognosticating who will win. It is not only for abortion, though that would be enough reason, it's because by wit, charm and deceit many people from the banksters to the lawyers allowed a few to run away with our Republic. It cannot be saved. It is gone. But with some measure of luck it could be restored. Have you not read about the state of the personal firearms in America only since January of this year? I don't own a gun, but I don't live where I'd need one either.

I used to think the Patriots would win, but I have some doubts now into which I will not presently stray. But there is no way to stop a civil war, in my humble opinion. I have been prognosticating that since 1968. Elsewhere I've written that a colleague and I found a powerful attorney predicting the same thing for the same reasons in that same year. America has simply slid on down that slippery slope the jurists even noted we were on, but did nothing to get us off. :-/ I would rather be an optimist and be wrong than a pessimist who proves to be right. The former sometimes wins, but never the latter.

Don Wood
elizabethatucker 9 months ago
again, all I see is an "us and them" attitude... "winners and loosers"...This is my point, I have made no assertions other than the issue at hand... which was...Keep your law off my body. I agree with the statement, for two reasons,
1. I may not believe what you believe, but I will defend your right to learn at your own pace and walk your own path.
and
2. I think that learning by example works way better than being humiliated, and chastized into acting the way you want someone to act.

You can say you are not a Christian, but all that means is that you have not had a calling to follow Christ as your God. But you can not deny that he was a totally cool dude with a heart and a passion for the people. He was a good man who was never fair but always just. At the very least, he set a good example on how to get along on this earth. Some people call themselves Christian, which in turn gives them some sort of license to judge others unfairly and put people in a defensive position. This is absolutely the worst thing we can do to one of our brothers or sisters, because Unity is the only way.

Bottom line: The details and earthly laws mean nothing if you hold yourself to a higher standard... Universal Law.

I think Im done here, Blessings to all...
Don Wood 9 months ago
Dear Elizabeth,

The reason you see "us and them" again is because you're the one not answering issues. I am a strict Christian if you didn't already guess. I'm pretty sure your book says the same as mine that we're to ready to give an answer to the hope that lies within us. Please write me off list and let me share a couple of things privately. My eMail address is above. Just look for it.
sobi 9 months ago
Morning, Kinda--my hours get messed up in the light.

Tiller was killed. Yes.
The individual killing him, ....even with a private group consensus...is only executioner to those in agreement.

They took it upon themselves to accuse, hold an improper trial, convict outside of authority, sentence to death, and apply sentence.

In the law, it is murder. They claimed the law failed them, and they took it upon themselves to correct. I'm not entirely opposed to such a thing, and I cannot conceive of a proper reason for late-term abortion, I'll admit that. It doesn't mean there isn't one, it means I haven't come face-to-face with it yet.

So, should he be executed himself? I am opposed to the death penalty on many grounds, none of them are moral. So not by the state to my mind.

I am more interested in what you perceive God will say.

There, I capitalized it. Need more coffee. On paragraph read and responded to.



sobi 9 months ago
Scrolling through the poetry first every time I come to this thread makes me want for another thread.

The castle law is good law. Should be nationwide. If it were, a lot of genuine crime would be seriously reduced.

Forget what the people would say. I can pretty well anticipate the arguments on both sides. What would God say?

I have no doubt there is a bible in my home somewhere amongst the books. I have too many books. They are stacked everywhere. LOL

But I'm not going in search of it.

Yes, I am fully aligned on jury powers. Maybe he would walk, I'm not sure. Nullification is a good and necessary thing, but in this conversation, it is a predictive hope. Not ready for discussion.

Popular thought, much like popular speech, is not the highest form. I am not inclined to give it credit for being popular.

More coffee. I drink LOTS of coffee in the morning.


sobi 9 months ago
And sincerely, Sobi, it's almost always the same (can you tell me why?), that the Green Peace whale watchers, seal saviors, duckie delighters and goose tuche whiners will complain about an almost non existent problem but which any ordinary farmer can explain, and still, knowingly allow their neighbor killer Tiller to live a respectable and unmolested life.

Very creative. LOL. Personally, it was veal that troubled me. I don't eat it. But I'm moving away from meat generally speaking anyway. I'd like to see us develop better sources of protein that become cultural habits. Just on an efficiency basis if nothing else.

There are lots of people to feed, and if you get your way, there will be more. LOL.

I agree, there are more pressing problems, but it does cause the cringe anyway.
sobi 9 months ago
On the uprising. Yes. I think it must come. Sooner is better in my honest opinion. We are in the final time of a dying nation. That is not a good and happy place.

I doubt this summer. I was hoping. But the voices that I hear, and I listen, have actually quieted into a determined rage. For a while, I think the silence will confuse many that it isn't coming.

While they quietly get ready, many will think it was a silly scream in the night. They will be wrong, but there's nothing to be done about it.

Don Wood 9 months ago
Hi Sobi,

You said, "They took it upon themselves to accuse, hold an improper trial, convict outside of authority, sentence to death, and apply sentence." Yeah, that's true as far as the establishment is concerned TODAY. It can change tomorrow. We need to look to what is true LAW and it is so utterly simple. I didn't make it up, so it doesn't come from me except by repetition. "*DO* unto others as you would have them do unto you, love the Lord your God with all your might and your neighbor as yourself." Putting it in a simple civil statement without taking God into view, it simply means "do not violate the life, liberty or property in whatever you do." Any laws that are established may easily violate life, liberty & property.

Off on a tangent of another thread, the establishment can presently go into a man's workplace, find him doing something they do not like, which isn't against the law yet, and create a law to put him entirely out of business. How? Let's say he raises veal or ducks & geese. Many people are up in arms about that, and want laws! They never realize that the farmer doesn't want any of his animals injured as then he cannot sell them. But the establishment thinks "100% safety" should be regulated into all our systems (which it cannot be), and as a result you get an establishement like ours who makes it perfectly "legal" to kill babies and the ones that would stop the baby butchers. Pretty screwed up, if you ask me.

Tiller's killer did indeed break the "law." But I've walked in areas of the world where just crossing a geographical line in the dirt would get you killed. Then in a night that wall came down and no one is killed for doing so today. My brother and I crossed that point one time when the wall was up, and then a few months later I crossed it again at normal train speed. It all depends on the will of men, and as to what laws they think should be obeyed. The more scofflaws you have, the less dignity any law has, and thus again, we see the reason for the decline of America.

So, should Tiller's killer be executed? (Your refusal to accept capital punishment in any way puts an amusing light on this which I will not stray into), but, "No." I do not believe he should be executed. He will have saved lives by taking the one who had no regard for life. BUT this will be according to whether or not he gets a real jury trial or only a "so called" jury trial. I'm glad you know about jury nullification which is STILL the law, though most do not know it. I'd say he's in deep water. I hope his soul is right with God, as I do not believe God would otherwise send him to hell. In fact, if America survives the nightmare it's just about to go through, those "laws" may well be amongst them to go, because Patriots are adamant about right to life for all.

Speaking of protein, you couldn't do better than lentils. If you learn the way Asian Indians prepare them you could find them addictive. They are delicious! And it keeps the vegans and even us non vegans happy.

I laugh at those who talk about how the population explosion is not good. But it WAS God who pushed the idea and never, ever suggested it should be stopped. I, for one, believe every command he made is not man's right to change, and that in reality we cannot change what he wants, but in our trying to change what God said (Tower of Babel), will not change God's goal or motive for man to fill the whole earth. It's for his glory he wants it filled, and we are not going to stop his plan. I wouldn't have wanted to be Nimrod who thought he could get by with ignoring God's command. I'll grant he knows better now, but it's too late! When we get in line with doing it God's way, we'll find out that it's best for all of us and there'l be plenty of food to go around. I've studied where you could put the entire world's population into a part of Texas and the rest of the earth would be used for food production. Hmmm?

You could be right about the uprising not being this summer, and I kind of lean that way myself, but it will be only one shot that will start it, and it won't finish quickly or easily. There will be very few who can escape. I've made a way for my kids and grandchildren! Thank God I'm out of harm's way for us. Oh, we'll even feel it, but we'll have plenty of food, water, shelter, clothing and peace. We'll hardly know it's going on.

I also think you're ABSOLUTELY RIGHT that the quiet determined rage will fool and confuse all who don't stop, look and listen. That last train outa town will be the most important and many will die. They'll be just like the Jews who didn't leave Germany as soon as they should have. I'm a Christian and not a Jew, but try to take lessons from where ever they come. The Jews who listened to Jesus and believed what he said in Matthew 24 and weren't in Jerusalem when Titus came in AD 70. They had already fled to the hills of Pella. If I were in America now, I'd sell my house in one night for a price that the ignorant couldn't afford to pass by, and i'd get out as fast as I could, and I'd get as far away as I could. Too bad. What a shame and a pity. :-( WHAT a pity we have come to this. And all because we rejected God.
sobi 9 months ago
So if God would look past the executioner's deed and into his heart, you think God would give him go. That close?

Yes, government law is a temporary thing. It can turn in a day. It relates though in that I say there is nothing in government law that can properly be called moral. Whether it coincides with moral law or not, it is doomed by its origin. It is always properly called upon for justification.

I'm pretty well aware of the abuse in police powers as permitted by law. It is why I get so disgusted. LOL

So for government, man is law unto himself, and for God, he's obliged to obey?

I tried cooking lentils once. It didn't work out very well. Something about the color.
Don Wood 9 months ago
Hi Sobi,

You said, "So if God would look past the executioner's deed and into his heart, you think God would give him go. That close?"

I don't know about that. God says vengeance is his. At the same time, if babies have no advocate then what? I do know that the those Tiller killed all are in the kingdom of God. His word says so, but those who sent them there I can find no hope for. In fact the worst language of all, "it would be better that a mill stone were hung about their necks and they be cast into the depths of the sea."

All I really know about that is that babies should have their protectors. If they can't have mothers, then I'm not sure that God would condemn such an action. I know he doesn't condemn us when we go to war and kill, but is abortion not a war? I don't know.

I do know that if I knew all the facts as a venireman in a trial as I believe I know them outside a trial, I would acquit. But I would not be able to say without a doubt because I may not know all the facts. BUT I would judge the law as to possible nullification for sure! I always wanted to sit on a jury and never did.

You asked, "So for government, man is law unto himself, and for God, he's obliged to obey?" Absolutely not! There are several issues in Romans 13. Here, I'll quote it for you. You can decide what it says:

Romans 13:1-8 "Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

Lentils are like dried beans. Cook them nearly the same, but Indians have the best recipes on them! They have so many different varieties it's hard to imagine, even hot pink colored ones!

Don Wood
Jason Turuc 9 months ago
I really have nothing more to say hear that I haven’t already said.
So I wish you all the best and welcome you to join a different topic
http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/7622-4049
Jason Turuc 9 months ago
BTW Don looks like your famous http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/7437-4049
sobi 9 months ago
I know about fully informed jury--I would convict.

Keary Prophet 9 months ago
Speaking of Fully Informed Juries I have another great idea i hope you all will support..
http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/6702-4049
Related Topics/Ideas
Title


Public-Private Partnerships'an apple a day keeps obama away''gay' day coming to california public schools?'god is love''honor killing' claims life of singing star'i love jesus''is the right of the people to alter or abolish it'. by michael 'love god''love jesus'000 study on gay sex in argentina bars1 god1 holy ghost1 jesus1 love1-800-941-732610th amendment10th amendment to the u.s. constitution1600 pennsylvania avenue nw1800-282-2882180094173262007. sandler group takes majority position in rrgi200920102012220 power2theadvocate4th of july50 bagger547 forms of sexual deviancies listed by the american psychiatria development stage companya louisiana driver was stopped and detained for having a don't tabolish the income taxabortionabout the impending eventaccess management biosaccording to the driver's relative.add pelosi to the definition of liaradsadvertisingafghan president hamid karzaiafghanistanafricaafrican americanaidesaidsal-qaidaalan keyesalan keyes out of jailalaskaalternative viewpointsam radioamericaamericanamericans for prosperityand company-specific research tools forand don't forget to tell a friendand dr. biden appreciate your thoughtfulnessand financial news from the leading provider and award-winningand moral americans say no to obeying obama and a corrupt congreand moreand to petition the government for a redress of grievances”ann coulteranti-tax crusadeanti-tax-crusade-to-storm-capitol-in-budget-battlearabicarabs face death for selling to jewsarchbishop raymond burkearmageddonarmy giving pakistan to taliban?arnold schwarzeneggerart & postersat what point do our police officersaudioautosbabiesbackground checkbakerballbanksbarack hussein obamabarney frankbaseball season is underway - be sure to stop by legalzoom and hbaton rougebattle over gun controlbayonnebelluesbellues.comberlin wallbernard madoffbethanybethany world prayer centerbiblebig sky statebilderbergers plan secret meeting in greecebilly grahambipartisanblackblagojevichblasts catholic university for allowing president to give commenbloggingbobby jindalboca ratonbooksbreakbrevard countybrevard county floridabritney spearsbudgetbundlerbush administrationbut also because it would providebut he has no problem defiling the university of notre damebut if you do your due diligencecabinet-newcajuncajun foodcaliforniacampaigncancercandidatecardscatholiccaucuscelebritiescellphonescensuschannel 2channel 9characterchecks and balances to ensure missions of this type are properlychicago politicschuck norris' photo scares away criminalscivil rightscivilian casualtiesclass of 1976class of 1977coffeecold warcold weathercollegecomments: 202-456-1111company profilecomponentscondoleezza ricecongresscongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religicongressionalcongressmanconservativeconservative groupsconservative titan richard viguerie slams gop 'listening tour'constitutionconstitutional scholarcorruptioncountrycountry musiccourtcraigcurrent affairsdavid craigdavid craig mastriannidavid craig mastrianni and toalterorabolish.com strongly reccomedavid landmandavid m. mastriannidavid mastriannidc 20500dealer-licensingdebatesdec. 12 -- reality racingdeclaration of independancedefense secretary reveals details of air force one flyover that delegatesdemocratdemocratic national conventiondemocratic politicsdemonstrationsdid thomas jefferson know that putting the peoples right to altediplomacydissentdiversitydncdo not call listdo you believe barack obama bought the white house by outspendindogsdomestic policydon't tread on medon't you as a moral american or a moral persondreamsdrugseagle 981east coast surfing associationeconomic freedomeconomic prosperityeconomyeducationelections campaign attackselectoral collegeelectoral mapemailsemilyemma was followed by isabellaend timesendorsementsenergyenvironmentethanethniceuropeex-cop drew petersonfairness doctrinefaith and politicsfaith under fire - victory against gospel ban in public parkfamilyfashionfather jenkinsfax: 202-456-2461featured rrgi report. reality racingfederal bureau of alcoholfederal controlfederal gun lawsfederal gun registrationfederal regulationfederal tax and spending hikesfilmfind it disgusting that obama will not honor the nation day of pfirearms and explosivesfirst 100 daysfirst amendmentfirst ladyfirst lady michelle obamafla.floridafoibles candidatefollow the moneyfood and drinkfor americansfor the first time everforeign policyforumsfourth of julyfox nationfox newsfree pressfreedomfreedom of speechfreedom of the pressfreemen militiafundraising gaffesgaffes campaigninggamblinggamesgasgates wrote the faa notified several agencies on april 24gates wrote the mission was planned in late march 2009 and was cgay marriagegay'-marriage barragegender politicsgeorgia getting around gimmicksget a stock quote for reality racing inc. stock market quotes inget an alert via email or aim whenever reality racingget detailed information on reality racing new (rrgi.pk) includiget reality racing inc. (rrgi) stock research & investing informget to know reality racing inc. rrgi ceo otc rrgi unique rrgi deglobal warminggodgod's willgov. rick perrygovernmentgovernment spends $400g on gay sex studygovernment watchdogsgovernorsgrass-rootsgrass-roots tea party movement that swept across the countrygrass-roots protestsgreenhouseguest bloggergunshappy birthday! wnd 12 years oldhate crimeshead of vatican's highest courthealinghealing place churchhealthhealth carehealth care policyhebrewhillary clintonhillary rodham clintonhispanicshoboken and elizabethholdinghollywoodholocaustholocaustwinston churchillhouse of representativeshouse speaker nancy pelosihousing crisishttp://twitter.com/2alterorabolishhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9w6pspgsv4humorhunting rifleshurricane katrinahusband of missing mom stacey petersoni have asked the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff to ensureif we ever needed a rabbit to be pulled out of a hatihubill.illegalillinois politicsillnessimmigrationimmigration debateimpeachmentimpeech obamain letter to mccaininaugurationinc [rrgi.pk]inc.inc. (otc pink sheets: rrgi) announced todayinc. (otc pink sheets: rrgi) looks to have a ground floor ... isinc. (otc pink sheets: rrgi) looks to have a ground floor is rrginc. (rrgi) - get stock pricesinc. new (rrgi) - company profileinc. new (rrgi)'s stock price changesincluding the u.s. park policeincome taxesindependent candidatesindependentsindianainvestorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=6856iowairaniraqiraq waris conducting an urgent national online poll about sarah palin'sis obamathe anti-christ?is the right of the people to alter or abolish it by michael schisraelisrael's foreign ministerjack van impejack van impe on end time prophecyjapanjapanese routinely beheaded and bayoneted prisonersjefferson's declaration of independence introduced a new principjersey cityjesusjewsjoel osteenjoel stockstilljohn mccainjoke of the day: directions pleasejoshua and danieljustice departmentskarzaikathleen saviokentuckykey competitorskids and familiesl.a. watches labor issueslalandmanlandman schoolslarry stockstilllawmakerslawyerlegislationlegislaturelesbians trying to boot boy scouts from facilities they builtliberal groupsliberty counsellive bloglobbyinglouisianalsulsu footballluo languagem.d.made in montanamadison and ava. jacob was followed by michaelmarijuanamarketwatch.commartin luther king jrmass gravesmax2mediamercy memexicomichiganmilitaryminimax2miraclemiracle placemiracle place churchmmfotwmoneymontanamormonismmr. obamamultimediamusicmuzzle dissent and criticismmyspacenasanational do not call listnational real id systemnational rifle associationnazisnevadanevada caucusnew 'hate-crimes' legislation 'shocks the conscience'new hampshirenew jersey state police regional coordination center and new jernew nascar-themed reality series reality racing - the rookie chanew orleansnew protections for gun owners are on the agenda in utahnew reality tv show to give total amateurs a shot at racingnew york city police department operationsnews conferencenewsmax.comnewspapernewspapersnorth carolinanotes about spam incidents involving the stock reality racingnow is the timeobama eligibilityobama presidency awakens pro-life movementobama the anti christobama's speechobedience to the law of godobeying obama and a corrupt congress is like obeying hitlerofficials of the united states government are currently planningofficials of the united states government have actively exploredofficials of the united states government have already forged peofficials of the united states government have explored regionalofficials of the united states government have worked for the imohiooiloil and gasoil and gas field exploration servicesoil landmanold westone of america's leading online news servicesor daytona 500or of the press or the right of the people peaceably to assembleor prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedooregonour founders risked their livesour militaryp.l.l.c.pakistani governmentparties and ballsparty conventionpassage of this bill by the u.s. senate would be reckless and irpay per click banner ads on myspacepelosi briefed in 2002 about interrogation methodspelosi: i was told cia tactics were lawfulpennsylvaniapentagonpeople owning rrgi.pk also tend to own: eagm.pkfmdaygwgo.pkjmcp.personal habitspersonhoodpetitionpetsphoto galleryplayerplease tell your friends to visit www.toalterorabolish.com and tpolitical historypolitical leaderspolitical speechpoliticspollspopepope calls for palestinian state in israelpovertypowspray for gay people that god will help them see the truthprayerpresident barack obamapresident barack obama has called for the establishment of a strpresident bushpresident clintonpresident karzaipresident obamapresident obama is committed to creating the most open and accespresident of the united statespresident ronald reaganpresidential campaignprice charts and moreprimary calendarprior year / cancelled reality television shows - realitypro-lifepro-life protesterpro-lifers plan to be jailed at notre dameproduces original programming relating to stock car racingprotest federal tax tea partyprotesting against barack obama's abortion recordpublic opinionquality web site design with affordable hosting optionsquestion to prez over savage ban derailed by white houser r g irace and ethnicityracingralph naderrandy barnettre-declaration of independence: petition to protect u.s. soverei

Making Government Operations More Openpublic-private partnerships'an apple a day keeps obama away''gay' day coming to california public schools?'god is love''honor killing' claims life of singing star'i love jesus''is the right of the people to alter or abolish it'. by michael'love god''love jesus'000 study on gay sex in argentina bars1 god1 holy ghost1 jesus1 love1-800-941-732610th amendment10th amendment to the u.s. constitution1600 pennsylvania avenue nw1800-282-2882180094173262007. sandler group takes majority position in rrgi200920102012220 power2theadvocate4th of july50 bagger547 forms of sexual deviancies listed by the american psychiatria development stage companya louisiana driver was stopped and detained for having a don't tabolish the income taxabortionabout the impending eventaccess management biosaccording to the driver's relative.add pelosi to the definition of liaradsadvertisingafghan president hamid karzaiafghanistanafricaafrican americanaidesaidsal-qaidaalan keyesalan keyes out of jailalaskaalternative viewpointsam radioamericaamericanamericans for prosperityand company-specific research tools forand don't forget to tell a friendand dr. biden appreciate your thoughtfulnessand financial news from the leading provider and award-winningand moral americans say no to obeying obama and a corrupt congreand moreand to petition the government for a redress of grievances”ann coulteranti-tax crusadeanti-tax-crusade-to-storm-capitol-in-budget-battlearabicarabs face death for selling to jewsarchbishop raymond burkearmageddonarmy giving pakistan to taliban?arnold schwarzeneggerart & postersat what point do our police officersaudioautosbabiesbackground checkbakerballbanksbarack hussein obamabarney frankbaseball season is underway - be sure to stop by legalzoom and hbaton rougebattle over gun controlbayonnebelluesbellues.comberlin wallbernard madoffbethanybethany world prayer centerbiblebig sky statebilderbergers plan secret meeting in greecebilly grahambipartisanblackblagojevichblasts catholic university for allowing president to give commenbloggingbobby jindalboca ratonbooksbreakbrevard countybrevard county floridabritney spearsbudgetbundlerbush administrationbut also because it would providebut he has no problem defiling the university of notre damebut if you do your due diligencecabinet-newcajuncajun foodcaliforniacampaigncancercandidatecardscatholiccaucuscelebritiescellphonescensuschannel 2channel 9characterchecks and balances to ensure missions of this type are properlychicago politicschuck norris' photo scares away criminalscivil rightscivilian casualtiesclass of 1976class of 1977coffeecold warcold weathercollegecomments: 202-456-1111company profilecomponentscondoleezza ricecongresscongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religicongressionalcongressmanconservativeconservative groupsconservative titan richard viguerie slams gop 'listening tour'constitutionconstitutional scholarcorruptioncountrycountry musiccourtcraigcurrent affairsdavid craigdavid craig mastriannidavid craig mastrianni and toalterorabolish.com strongly reccomedavid landmandavid m. mastriannidavid mastriannidc 20500dealer-licensingdebatesdec. 12 -- reality racingdeclaration of independancedefense secretary reveals details of air force one flyover thatdelegatesdemocratdemocratic national conventiondemocratic politicsdemonstrationsdid thomas jefferson know that putting the peoples right to altediplomacydissentdiversitydncdo not call listdo you believe barack obama bought the white house by outspendindogsdomestic policydon't tread on medon't you as a moral american or a moral persondreamsdrugseagle 981east coast surfing associationeconomic freedomeconomic prosperityeconomyeducationelections campaign attackselectoral collegeelectoral mapemailsemilyemma was followed by isabellaend timesendorsementsenergyenvironmentethanethniceuropeex-cop drew petersonfairness doctrinefaith and politicsfaith under fire - victory against gospel ban in public parkfamilyfashionfather jenkinsfax: 202-456-2461featured rrgi report. reality racingfederal bureau of alcoholfederal controlfederal gun lawsfederal gun registrationfederal regulationfederal tax and spending hikesfilmfind it disgusting that obama will not honor the nation day of pfirearms and explosivesfirst 100 daysfirst amendmentfirst ladyfirst lady michelle obamafla.floridafoibles candidatefollow the moneyfood and drinkfor americansfor the first time everforeign policyforumsfourth of julyfox nationfox newsfree pressfreedomfreedom of speechfreedom of the pressfreemen militiafundraising gaffesgaffes campaigninggamblinggamesgasgates wrote the faa notified several agencies on april 24gates wrote the mission was planned in late march 2009 and was cgay marriagegay'-marriage barragegender politicsgeorgia getting around gimmicksget a stock quote for reality racing inc. stock market quotes inget an alert via email or aim whenever reality racingget detailed information on reality racing new (rrgi.pk) includiget reality racing inc. (rrgi) stock research & investing informget to know reality racing inc. rrgi ceo otc rrgi unique rrgi deglobal warminggodgod's willgov. rick perrygovernmentgovernment spends $400g on gay sex studygovernment watchdogsgovernorsgrass-rootsgrass-roots tea party movement that swept across the countrygrass-roots protestsgreenhouseguest bloggergunshappy birthday! wnd 12 years oldhate crimeshead of vatican's highest courthealinghealing place churchhealthhealth carehealth care policyhebrewhillary clintonhillary rodham clintonhispanicshoboken and elizabethholdinghollywoodholocaustholocaustwinston churchillhouse of representativeshouse speaker nancy pelosihousing crisishttp://twitter.com/2alterorabolishhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9w6pspgsv4humorhunting rifleshurricane katrinahusband of missing mom stacey petersoni have asked the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff to ensureif we ever needed a rabbit to be pulled out of a hatihubill.illegalillinois politicsillnessimmigrationimmigration debateimpeachmentimpeech obamain letter to mccaininaugurationinc [rrgi.pk]inc.inc. (otc pink sheets: rrgi) announced todayinc. (otc pink sheets: rrgi) looks to have a ground floor ... isinc. (otc pink sheets: rrgi) looks to have a ground floor is rrginc. (rrgi) - get stock pricesinc. new (rrgi) - company profileinc. new (rrgi)'s stock price changesincluding the u.s. park policeincome taxesindependent candidatesindependentsindianainvestorshub.advfn.com/boards/board.aspx?board_id=6856iowairaniraqiraq waris conducting an urgent national online poll about sarah palin'sis obamathe anti-christ?is the right of the people to alter or abolish it by michael schisraelisrael's foreign ministerjack van impejack van impe on end time prophecyjapanjapanese routinely beheaded and bayoneted prisonersjefferson's declaration of independence introduced a new principjersey cityjesusjewsjoel osteenjoel stockstilljohn mccainjoke of the day: directions pleasejoshua and danieljustice departmentskarzaikathleen saviokentuckykey competitorskids and familiesl.a. watches labor issueslalandmanlandman schoolslarry stockstilllawmakerslawyerlegislationlegislaturelesbians trying to boot boy scouts from facilities they builtliberal groupsliberty counsellive bloglobbyinglouisianalsulsu footballluo languagem.d.made in montanamadison and ava. jacob was followed by michaelmarijuanamarketwatch.commartin luther king jrmass gravesmax2mediamercy memexicomichiganmilitaryminimax2miraclemiracle placemiracle place churchmmfotwmoneymontanamormonismmr. obamamultimediamusicmuzzle dissent and criticismmyspacenasanational do not call listnational real id systemnational rifle associationnazisnevadanevada caucusnew 'hate-crimes' legislation 'shocks the conscience'new hampshirenew jersey state police regional coordination center and new jernew nascar-themed reality series reality racing - the rookie chanew orleansnew protections for gun owners are on the agenda in utahnew reality tv show to give total amateurs a shot at racingnew york city police department operationsnews conferencenewsmax.comnewspapernewspapersnorth carolinanotes about spam incidents involving the stock reality racingnow is the timeobama eligibilityobama presidency awakens pro-life movementobama the anti christobama's speechobedience to the law of godobeying obama and a corrupt congress is like obeying hitlerofficials of the united states government are currently planningofficials of the united states government have actively exploredofficials of the united states government have already forged peofficials of the united states government have explored regionalofficials of the united states government have worked for the imohiooiloil and gasoil and gas field exploration servicesoil landmanold westone of america's leading online news servicesor daytona 500or of the press or the right of the people peaceably to assembleor prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the freedooregonour founders risked their livesour militaryp.l.l.c.pakistani governmentparties and ballsparty conventionpassage of this bill by the u.s. senate would be reckless and irpay per click banner ads on myspacepelosi briefed in 2002 about interrogation methodspelosi: i was told cia tactics were lawfulpennsylvaniapentagonpeople owning rrgi.pk also tend to own: eagm.pkfmdaygwgo.pkjmcp.personal habitspersonhoodpetitionpetsphoto galleryplayerplease tell your friends to visit www.toalterorabolish.com and tpolitical historypolitical leaderspolitical speechpoliticspollspopepope calls for palestinian state in israelpovertypowspray for gay people that god will help them see the truthprayerpresident barack obamapresident barack obama has called for the establishment of a strpresident bushpresident clintonpresident karzaipresident obamapresident obama is committed to creating the most open and accespresident of the united statespresident ronald reaganpresidential campaignprice charts and moreprimary calendarprior year / cancelled reality television shows - realitypro-lifepro-life protesterpro-lifers plan to be jailed at notre dameproduces original programming relating to stock car racingprotest federal tax tea partyprotesting against barack obama's abortion recordpublic opinionquality web site design with affordable hosting optionsquestion to prez over savage ban derailed by white houser r g irace and ethnicityracingralph naderrandy barnett
Activity Chart
Controversy Meter
Idea Rank : 690