OpenGov - Open Government Brainstorm

Agreed~

NHDeering and Wemo:

NO, it's one big fat unanswered question, not a bunch of little ones. We are testing your experiment.

The reason that is happening is because following the rules would result in allowing this crirical issue to be pushed into oblivian by mobilizing the Obama machine to quash it.

We demand to be heard. And oh, by the way, he is black.

Count Birth Certificate comments - get over 5,000

This site has been rigged so that the posts asking for Obama to support transparency by providing his own birth certificate, health records and college records are not properly counted, even when they do not get deleted.

I have done a personal count of more than 1,000 requests for his birth certificate. My analysis suggests there have been at least 5,000 request for Obama to produce his real birth certificate, college records, health records and other financial records.

It is possible to review this site to find the most requested ideas by scanning "Top Rated" posts, but the requests for Obama's records do not show up as being top rated. Those runnig this site are cooking the results.

According to the liars running this website the most requested item has NOT been Obama's birth certificate.

(My email is ricardomigrant@aol.com - inlcude your email address if you want me to reply to you)

Skin color should not be, nor is it, an issue to be posted here. Your demand to be heard would be much more effective if you were to simply vote up a single topic to the highest ranking and stop using racist and offensive language. The "Obama Machine" isn't squashing any issues on this site as far as I have seen- as of last I checked your cause is still among the top voted issues.

This is about all the legalize pot ideas, right?

I agree, the nut-jobs should have all their pro-drug crazy ideas scrubbed from the site.

Everyone know that pot makes you retarded. Just look at all the Government research.

Until we get these crazies off the site, we will never be able to have any kind of real discussions.

The "5000 requests" are multiple posts from the same users. Last I checked, our government relies on a one person- one vote scheme. One person shouting something 5000 times does not constitute 5000 votes.

"One person shouting something 5000 times does not constitute 5000 votes."

Agreed, I wish that crazed dope fiend would stop posting his Legalize Weed garbage 5000 times.

I'm sure he thought he only did it once. Pot makes you stupid like that.

And with that I can say I agree- there are multiple marijuana posts- some are duplicates, and others are presenting a slightly different viewpoint. There are still nowhere near the overwhelming number of posts asking for Obama's birth certificate. So, while not perfect in their posting behavior, I think we can all agree that even the potheads are doing a better job of playing by the rules.

I think if Obama would release his birth certificate, school records and passports and if they supported his being a natural born citizen of the United States, we could use this site to discuss ideas for making government and the country better. When he continues to do every thing in his power to hide them without telling us why, what are we to think is the reason.

There are eleven "pot posts"...

That's not up for debate here- what I have offered in this idea is that people need to vote for ideas already on the table. If there are previous posts that you can vote on, then that is more effective than reposting the same thing over and over again.

"I think we can all agree that even the potheads are doing a better job of playing by the rules."

Playing by the rules? Crazy dope heads don't play by ANY rules.

THEY SHOULD ALL BE LOCKED UP AND THE KEY THROWN AWAY FOR BEING THE CRIMINALS THEY ARE!!!

I have not read any language that I would think was threatening, but did read one that was a little racist. Did not care for that one. However, I think its very important that we keep requesting his information until one way or another the truth comes out. They would perfer for us to just go away and drop this issue, as seen by the number of posting getting deleted. They control the delete button, but we will still ask, ask and ask until BHO shows us he files.

That's exactly the inflammatory language I was addressing in my post above. When the rules of open dialogue are thrown out we all resort to bickering and name calling- that's not forwarding anyone's cause.

If that's your cause then keep asking- shout it to the tree tops- just do it in a more appropriate manner that subscribes to the posting guidelines of this site.

Here we go with the racist accusations again.

Hey Lang, you really are a racist aren't you?

Our president isn't black?

stop deleting post and deleting votes on issue about

eligibility

Don't you have white people and black people in New Hampshire?

I am not saying that every post is racist or that every person worried about the issue of the birth certificate is a racist. I am saying that there are some posts that are getting support that are using racist language, and that anyone legitimately concerned with having this idea taken seriously by anyone other than racists should be mindful of the language used by their cohorts.

And yes, lang, the president is black.

See this post for racist comments:

http://opengov.ideascale.com/akira/dtd/5734-4049

Wrong, wemo.mike. Obama is interracial. He's half black and half white. So, technically, he's not the first black president, despite what the media raves about.

I stand corrected.

Lang-You kind of floored me with the black reference. It shouldn't matter.

We don't separate people by race in New Hampshire for the most part, although there are some racists here also.

Kind of a Catch-22 you got me into there, scott- you say he's interracial, lang says he's black. I say it doesn't matter either way. Who's right? I'll leave you and lang to fight it out, you both seem like pretty intelligent guys.

Wemo, how is it a Catch-22, guy? Obama has a white mother and a black father. That would make him a child of an interracial marriage. Anyway, I actually think the whole skin color thing is hilarious. Before Mr. Obama was elected, all I heard from the black community was, "It shouldn't be about color." But, after he was elected, I sure didn't hear that...and still don't today.

Sorry, scotty, but I'm not going to get sucked into an argument about race- I think it's a moot point. Read my post, vote it up or vote it down. If you want to debate what I've said originally we can talk, but (not to be redundant) race is not an issue to be discussed here.

Gretch:

It does matter.

How can you discuss racism without discussing race itself, Wemo. Sorry, but you sucked yourself into the debate with your original post accusing people of being racists. Just because you failed to lay out a solid case in your post, don't blame other people for adding to it. And, if someone is using racist language, big deal. Grow up! Your post sounds like some child whining...."Mommy, he called me a name". I would much rather talk to someone who tells me exactly what they think instead of tip-toeing around. It's ridiculous that people can't say what they think just because of a country full of babies who can't handle what they don't want to hear.

"If these rules aren't followed in debate, then what was open dialogue melts down into common bickering and name calling." So, you want to revert now to common bickering? You've already begun the name- calling... It's not that you are going to hurt my feelings- it's more that you ARE hurting your own cause by letting your emotions outweigh your intellect.

Although my post mentions that there is some racist language amongst the posts here, that is not an invitation to defend a racist position here.

Please notice: We are only allowed to discuss sunshine and lollipops around wemo.

Wemo, did you not read your own post? You accused people of being racist. You cast the first stone in name calling. I am not a racist, but I will not wait for an invitation to defend anyone's right to speak as their conscience guides them to believe. You added nothing to the debate of an the birth certificate issue. The only thing you did in your original post is try to force people to respond in a manner that YOU find personally acceptable. That's not democracy, sir.

Not only did I read it, I wrote it, sir.

I didn't try to force anyone to do anything, I didn't ask for a response, and I never called anyone a racist. What I said was: "The language being used is becoming more and more threatening and overtly racist."

All I asked for was for people to monitor duplicate posting, refrain from offensive language, and vote for their issues in a manner congruent with the guidelines of this site.

And so you'll know my stance, I believe that in a democracy people should speak their minds, but in a civil manner or else run the risk of all conversations breaking down into ill-tempered arguments such as you are trying to provoke.

The Constitution allows for free speech, but speech meant to cause malice, promote fear, or to incite violence is not protected under the First Amendment. Your freedoms and rights come at the cost of your own responsibility to use them appropriately.

I'm not trying to provoke anything, Wemo. But, there you go with your accusations again. You created a post expressing your own thoughts. Just because you don't ask for a response to your post, it doesn't mean you're not going to get any response. If you don't want comments about your post, then don't post. Nobody here is promoting fear, inciting violence, or causing malice. How much more civil can a person get than a forum? It's the most non-violent form of expression that exists. People are expressing their views, just as you are expressing yours. It just so happens the majority of the responses to your post don't agree with you. It's nothing personal.

My post is expressing the thoughts of the site. I have seen multiple posts today from people surprised that their previous post was deleted- I was just offering the idea that if people would follow the guidelines of the site by not posting a multitude of duplicates and using threatening language then they would be more apt to have their issues taken seriously. As it stands, this group's opinions are being looked at as an annoyance by sole virtue of the superfluous number of posts made expressing the exact same viewpoint.

I haven't resorted to name calling, I haven't argued either way about the issue of Obama's birth, and I haven't expressed one opinion here to discourage the practice of free expression. What I have done is invite people to use this site appropriately. If that is unacceptable, then I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I understand what you are trying to say. I really do. But, also consider that this issue is very passionate for a lot of people. This is the presidency of the United States that is at stake, my friend. As you have seen in your life, just as I have seen in mine, there is corruption at every level of government. If not for skeptical people and a great amount of pressure applied to their causes, corruption would never be revealed.

The people who are expressing their outrage, are simply doing so because they have nowhere else to turn. They feel the media in this country has let them down. And, they are right in their thinking. I was in the media for 25 years before leaving it because I could not accept the biasness of the media any longer. I gave up the career I loved because I saw countless letters to the editor tossed in the trash because they didn't agree with the political leaning of the newspaper. When also gave up a daily radio talk show as host because callers were screened in order to push a political agenda. Yet, at the same time, we promoted the show as presenting both sides of an issue.

So, try to understand the frustration of the people that are all virtually asking the same question: "Please show us the complete birth certificate". And, it's really not that much to ask.

I too am skeptical when I see a man talk about transparency in government. Meanwhile, a team of attorneys fight on his behalf to keep the public from seeing the one document that would prove whether or not he is qualified to hold his office.

Finally, I understand your concern for following site rules. But, when people are very passionate about an issue, they sometimes break the rules...and that's not a bad thing. I have found that sometimes rules need to be broken. Those who fought for our nation's independence shared the same belief in breaking rules. If they didn't, we'd still be under British rule today.

I agree that some rules are made to be broken, but this site has been broken by the overwhelming abuse by a certain faction of users. You now have on the entry screen a message from the site moderators asking outright for these abuses to stop. If it continues do you think that they will become any more responsive? My best guess is that they will just shut this site down, and that ruins it for all of us- regardless of political viewpoint.

I, too, am impressed by the passion of the users here, but I disagree with their inability to put intellect before emotion. All I am saying is that the argument would carry more weight if people would address it appropriately.

You can't reference the American Revolution when trying to defend the anarchy that this site has become. There is no organization to the repeated posting. Our Revolution was orchestrated by intelligent men with a very clear understanding of the uses and the pitfalls of diplomacy, and they knew well when to use it and when it was time to abandon it.

Wow,

So Mike, you are saying that Obama would rather shut this site down than answer the issue.

Not only that, he is willing to give up a $25,000,000 reward as well:

http://www.rewardforobamasbirthcertificate.com/

And you are ok with that.

It is you that has the "inability to put intellect before emotion".

Oh, brother

Wemo, There wasn't intellect in the Boston Tea Party? There was action! By today's standards, some would consider that completely irrational, even illegal. You're asking for a calm reaction to an issue that people don't feel calm about. The presidency is at stake. These people are concerned about the future of this country. They're not concerned about keeping this website.

And, yes, I can and will reference the American Revolution when defending these peoples' acions. They are also very well orchestrated in their effort by making their voice heard loud and clear in every area of the website. You said yourself, "...this site has been broken...". That is incredibly effective!

Diplomacy has not worked in this situation, so they are taking extraordinary measures to get their message heard. I commend them for that.

I don't have any energy left for this- I have to admit that I am pretty much sapped from trying to just make the point that YOUR issues would carry more weight if they were addressed in a more appropriate manner.

Just know that this website is about the only place that these ideas will be heard as no one outside of this forum is going pay much attention to what you are saying if you keep saying it in this same way.

Happy?

Have fun as your posts keep getting deleted.