OpenGov - Open Government Brainstorm

Your whole group currupting this site with this type of attack is pathetic.

Your weak, and you exploit propaganda and promote hate, and it is proven by your lack of respect for the majority of users here when you take a system for the improvement of society and turn it into a podium for hate...Take your concern and direct it you know where, Stay off this site if you can't behave your self

I'm with davemclucas. I agree and feel the same way.

Most people who accept the Ceritifation of Birth on the web, assume that if Barack Obama was actually born in Hawaii... then he is a natural born citizen of the USA under the 14th Amendment.

But they do not truly understand what the terminology "natural born citizen" truly means, or indeed what it meant to the writers of the Constitution.

Two words you MUST understand with regard to "natural born citizen" are "allegiance" and "sovereignty". According to Senator John A. Bingham who WROTE the 14th Amendment here is what natural born citizen actually means.

Senator Bingham said while speaking about the rights of citizens in the U.S. House of Representatives on March 6, 1866 the following :

[I] find no fault with the introductory clause [S 61 Bill], which is simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…. . . ”

- John Bingham in the United States House on March 9, 1866 (Cong. Globe, 39th, 1st Sess., 1291 (1866))

And furthermore, Senator Bingham's definition of "natural born citizen" is in direct keeping with the understanding of the writers of the Constituition, who had access and frequently reffered to Vattel's book "Law of Nations" which simply states

“ The natives, or natural born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens “ and

“ I say that in order to be of the country, it is necessary that a person be born of a father who is a citizen, for if he is born of a foreigner, it will be only the place of his birth and not his country. “ (Emmerich Vatel - Law of Nations)

Barack Obama freely admits his father was a Kenyan and a subject of the Brittish Commonwealth at the time of Barack's birth. So Obama's father at the time of Barack Obama's birth, "owed allegiance to a foreign sovereignty" !!

This alone is enough to cause Barack Obama NOT to be a "natural born citizen" of the USA. If indeed born in Hawaii he might be a citizen... but would not qualify as a "natural born citizen".... and is therefore NOT qualified to seek or to hold the office of President under the Constitution Article 2 Section 1.

THEREFORE... Barack Obama LACKS any Constitutional authority for any of the actions he has taken as President.

UNFORTUNATELY... the press are oblivious to this plain simple fact, due to their enormous Obama worship. And the courts likewise refused to touch this "hot potato" issue. (to the Destructive Detriment of the Constitution and to the People and obviously to the nation.)

The Birth Certificate.... Is it relevant ? Well to the issue of eligibility Perhaps. But it IS relevant in this way.. Barack Obama has fought hard to keep it out of the sight of the public. This in itself might show attempts to conceal eligibility from the public.

SO... this IS THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE IN THE HISTORY OF THIS NATION..... AND IT IS NOT BEING REPORTED BY ANY MAJOR NEWS MEDIA.

klinspoon.troys post reflects the attitude of the current adminsitration; "Think like us or shove it!"

That does not sound like "democracy" to me.

Let's get out from under the ether for a few minutes folks and do some logical thinking.

If I want to enter this country or leave to enter another I must have a passport. I must show my Birth Certificate to get a drivers license and even more documentation to get a Social Security Card.

When I went to South America to do missionary work it took several weeks to obtain my passport and well over $100. With plenty of proof of my citizenship.

If the common man must show his "valid original" Birth Certificate to do good outside this country then I think common sense would dictate that any elected official would have to show his prove of citizenship to do good inside this country.

To my knowledge we have not elected a King or a Dictator so the rules of law should apply equally across the board, including the Office of the President.

We want good people with good ideas. An idea to help make this country stronger I and others could support or debate it merits or not,and that is what this site is for. Even with the argument that your request has merit on this site. It certainly does not justify the manipulation of the principle of this site. Within minutes a coordinated effort to reapeatably post the same idea that is what is pathetic. It is an attack on everyone who comes here to participate.

A repetative posting of the same idea is a corrupt abuse of this site and the group forging ahead with this. The request you wish the president to answer does not belong on this site. And you and all the others who have posted this request as an idea know it.

I seriously doubt that any comment I made here (concerning the problems I see and want to help with) will be responded to or addressed any differently no matter what I or any one else posting here would say or offer. This is a feel good forum. The people in this administration already know what they intend to do and will just pluck out any comments that agree with the strategy they have already determined to take; and say that it was a result of 'the people's input'.

this site is about stratifying sides in an Hegellian dialectic, (read up if you don't understand, wikipedea is as good as any)

I think its unhealthy for our country that so many of us feel this way but I am sure, and reassured every day that I am not alone during my conversations with other citizens. I think the actions of the President are intentionally destabilizing the mid-east and creating a context for new area wide war that will dwarf gulf war I and II, and that he intends for the birth cirtificate issue to disapear in the midst of a much bigger crisis. The Palestinian issue is being fanned to a red hot flame and the Iranian issue is being allowed to gain momentum daily.

I'd bow to the Saudi Royalty just like he did if they paid for my Harvard education and gave 200 million to my campaign through their madrasas.

The gold plating is a mile wide and a millimeter deep on this administration and I think it is getting thinner by the day. You can fool some of the people all of the time; but not all of the people all of the time.

klingspoon.troy - So you are saying that asking elected officials to meet the same criteria needed to obtain a passport is corrupt?

There is a pie chart on the bottom of this blog troy, you may want to check it out.

This isn't "a group" this apparently is a "majority" opinion.

ma⋅jor⋅i⋅ty  /məˈdʒɔrɪti, -ˈdʒɒr-/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [muh-jawr-i-tee, -jor-] Show IPA

–noun, plural -ties. 1. the greater part or number; the number larger than half the total (opposed to minority ): the majority of the population.

2. a number of voters or votes, jurors, or others in agreement, constituting more than half of the total number.

3. the amount by which the greater number, as of votes, surpasses the remainder (distinguished from plurality ).

I'm a little confused, didn't we learn that the Birth certificate refered to as having been released during the campaign was clearly a fraud and photoshopped from his sister's? Isn't part of the question that we want to compare it to the one on file? Several of the top document specialists in the world have said it is a fraud and a lousy one at that. Isn't part of the issue the idea that we want to verify that the certificate released by the campaign is actually a copy of the one on file even if we don't get the long form.

In response to klingspoon.troy's comments, you sound like a broken record. As far as I know, the first amendment still applies in our country, so we ALL have a right to speak our minds as long as we do it with respect (something you obviously don't understand), but you, too, are entitled to your opinions. Just try not to keep repeating yourself, as it makes one appear less than bright...

The issue of citizenship is extremely important, as our Constitution is the framework of our system of law and government here in America and what has made our country strong. If it is shown that the birth certificate, in fact, is not what Team Obama and Mr Gibbs claim, then this would void all executive decisions made by the current administration, but won't do anything to repair the damages done thus far, and those are many.

As for the issue of the elusive birth certificate, the item posted by Team Obama is not a 'birth certificate' but a 'certification of live birth, and as many here have already stated, this does not PROVE a Hawaii birth.

Following is the information directly from the state of Hawaii's web site about people not born in Hawaii being able to get a Hawaii birth certificate provided that their parent/s lived there for 1 year immediately preceeding the birth of the baby. Maybe this will quiet you down for a while until Mr. Obama decides to come clean with 'We The People' who I feel have been deceived (or at least some have).

Here is the information:

[§338-17.8] Certificates for children born out of State. (a) Upon application of an adult or the legal parents of a minor child, the director of health shall issue a birth certificate for such adult or minor, provided that proof has been submitted to the director of health that the legal parents of such individual while living without the Territory or State of Hawaii had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence for at least one year immediately preceding the birth or adoption of such child.

(b) Proof of legal residency shall be submitted to the director of health in any manner that the director shall deem appropriate. The director of health may also adopt any rules pursuant to chapter 91 that he or she may deem necessary or proper to prevent fraudulent applications for birth certificates and to require any further information or proof of events necessary for completion of a birth certificate.

(c) The fee for each application for registration shall be established by rule adopted pursuant to chapter 91. [L 1982, c 182, §1]

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Here is the link to the page:

http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol06_ch0321-0344/HRS0338/HRS_0338-0017_0008.HTM

and how I got there is from this link:

http://www.ehawaii.gov/dakine/search.html?q=birth+certificates&searchby=all&cx=012249442604008016873%3Afyi5sijjiuo&cof=FORID%3A9&sa=Search#937

I included these links so there would be no claiming that this was a fabrication. Read if for yourself!

Fellow citizens, ask your congressman and Senators to ask Mr. Obama for permission to view the birth documents on file in Hawaii (along with an independent documents expert). If there is a legitimate birth document on file there, then Mr. Obama should be happy to provide the necessary permission (in order to settle the matter once and for all). If Mr. Obama does not permit such an inspection, it is because he is a FRAUD.