OpenGov - Open Government Brainstorm

It has them. The problem is enforcement.

This is a racist proposal.

It's not a racist proposal. It's a populist proposal. The illegal immigration conflict is between populists (against) and elitists (for), not between parties or between races. Pulling out the race card doesn't help the conversation at all.

We are a nation of immigrants. We need to make laws so that no one can be termed "illegal." We need to allow free immigration of anyone who doesn't have a criminal record and deny immigration to those dictators who seek asylum with us to avoid prosecution in their own countries.

To "writer", I am not, nor is my proposal racist.

I fully support LEGAL immigration as it keeps America diverse and as such strong.

Because most nations have limited immigration it

makes it necessary here. I do like the idea of world wide "free immigration, as "hamptonrachel2002 says, but all the other nation states would need to do there part to make it work

To "writer", I am not, nor is my proposal racist.

I fully support LEGAL immigration as it keeps America diverse and as such strong.

Because most nations have limited immigration it

makes it necessary here. I do like the idea of world wide "free immigration, as "hamptonrachel2002 says, but all the other nation states would need to do there part to make it work.

The libertarian position of open immigration is appealing from a position of history and theory, but runs into the problem of guaranteeing modern social benefits. Our original immigrants in the 18th and 19th centuries got no free medical care, higher education, Social Security, food stamps, welfare, unemployment, disability, etc. Thus their arrival and hard work was overwhelmingly to the nation's economic benefit.

No nation can guarantee all these things to any and all who arrive within our borders. It's a simple reality. All of this stuff has to be earned by someone.

I think most citizens have no problem with immigrants being here. We are after all a nation of immigrants. It's HOW they got here and the impact. We regulate the number of immigrants into this country so that they can be absorbed without having a negative impact on the economy. Taking on an extra 5-10million (1.5-3% of population) has had negative consequences on this country.

Michael, you present a popular misconception that most Americans have. Undocumented immigrants DO NOT qualify for free services like health care, social security, higher education, welfare, etc. This is pure fiction. Undocumented immigrants are given an Internal Revenue Tax ID Number (ITIN) so that they can pay taxes, social security tax, income tax, but they are NOT eligible to receive ANY government services that they are paying for.

I AM an immigrant who became a US Citizen and married an undocumented immigrant. My wife had not seen a doctor in 20 years because her family could not afford it. My in-laws still have not seen a doctor, collected food stamps, welfare, etc. This is simply not true. I know of undocumented immigrant communities and have yet to meet undocumented people who somehow collect any of these services. I have met however, 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants (who were born in the US) that collect these services but at that point they are not "immigrants" they are Americans. My wife has two bachelors degrees from SDSU and her parents paid through the nose because she was NOT eligible for ANY sort of financial aid or grants. My in-laws are still undocumented and now own an automotive repair shop (under some else's name) and pay all of their taxes and fees. Current immigration law does not allow me or my wife to legalize their status even though we are now both US Citizens and they have been paying taxes for over 20 years without collection a single penny! This is why immigrants feel insulted when people refer to them as "criminals" these people come here to break their backs working. In California I have yet to see a Latino on a street corner asking for a handout.

The Racism is against the founding stock of America who are being displaced by all of these other ehthic and religious groups.

We are supposed to be a nation of One From Many and yet we've become a country of various groups with each seeking their own interests at the expense of the General Welfare.

CALIFORNIA IS BANKRUPT because of all the illegals. So don't say that WE are not paying for them. CALIFORNIA is the barometer for what will happen to the rest of the country.

Obama has hired few whites. We are being displaced.

The better for the Bilderbergs and the Jewish banks to bring about the New World Order and steal our economy and make Asia the new economic power of the world.

Michael, as you say, "we have them", no we do not, if we had real laws, enforcement would not be a problem.

annisisbell,

Do you mean that Obama is hiring "few Whites" as in Hillary Clinton? or as in Joe Biden? Perhaps you meant Timothy F. Geithner, or Robert M. Gates? I feel sorry for you. I don't know what to tell you. I hope that some day you can see things objectively and overcome the strong prejudice you have against people who are not White.

Do you even live in California? If you did you would know that CA is bankrupt due to the bad legislation caused by deregulation. That's why former governor Gray Davis was impeached and Arnold the "governator" was elected. It did not do us any good though, the cards Enron dealt us are still taking a toll. In any case I hope you can someday see past your prejudice. I wish you the best.

Juancalcala,

Unfortunately, while your case may be perfectly accurate, the general point you make is disproven by the factual evidence. Illegal immmigrant children are in the schools and are people in medical need are NEVER refused service at the emergency room in hospitals.

I happen to know a doctor who works in free clinics in Southern Ca and she says illegals show up at the hospital with maps to show them where to go for medical care.

I don't object to these realities in principle, but we can't deny the fact that somebody has to pay for them.

And yes, most illegal immigrants are hardworking and honest, but that's not the point. The illegal immigration conflict is not between Americans and illegals, it's between Americans that pay the social costs versus Americans that reap the economic benefits of cheaper labor. The illegals are just caught in the middle.

Juancalcala,

I should add that racism has little to do with the illegal issue, but the emotional power of racism is used by both sides to win arguments and silence the opposition.

Legal immigrants of all races and creeds have been embraced by the American system and will continue to be.

Bill,

We do have laws against hiring illegals - that's why they need a Social Security number. But we have no enforcement that fines companies for willfully violating these laws. Why? Because many politicians benefit from illegal migration as certain sectors of the economy benefit. These would be agriculture, construction, and personal services. Pols also fear being branded as racist for vocally opposing illegals and losing votes.

Illegal immigration is a conflict between Americans who benefit and Americans who pay the costs. The politicians would like the whole issue to go away.

Michael, you are a very intelligent person. I do agree with you on many points. I would clarify though that undocumented immigrants use emergency services as a last resort. I know people who have not used medical services because they can not afford them and go to the emergency room once a health problem has festered into an emergency. Hospitals are NOT required to provide "preventive care" they are only obligated to provide "emergency services." The irony is that preventive care is much cheaper than emergency services for a hospital.

Many companies do benefit from undocumented immigration, those companies give hefty "gifts" to politicians to ignore the immigration issue and the problem continues to fester. Extremist continue to demagogue the issue instead of having a meaningful discussion on the issue. And people in general find it easier to flaunt their ignorance on the issue because they are too lazy to research the information and rely too much on what the extremist media(conservative and liberal) tells them instead of reaching their own conclusion. Until this does not change, honest and inclusive immigration reform will be hard to come by.

Juan,

I think we agree on what the problem is not. It's not about poor people who come here to find work, of whatever race or creed. It's about American business and political elites in conflict with American taxpayers and communities who must absorb the costs of uncontrolled immigration. The demagogues don't want us to know this - those on both sides of the issue.

It would be nice if every time someone stood up and said "this is racist" or "these newcomers are criminals," someone else would stand up and say, "This is not about racism or about the illegals - it's about who benefits and who loses among American citizens and who has political power. Illegals are just caught in the middle."

The solution may mean less work opportunities for illegal labor migrants, but more opportunities for legal immigration. Economics will mainly determine what happens in immigration, but the politics will forever be getting in the way.

@ Michael,

I agree. We demand that our politicians have an honest and lively discussion on immigration reform and border security. Let the chips fall were they may, but this issue can not continue to go unaddressed. As long as politicians continue to ignore the issue, the conservative and liberal extremist will continue to fill the information vacuum with language that irritates Americans on both sides. Although the answer is a multifaceted complicated one, I believe a fair and rational solution can be reached that address the concerns of everyone.

We demand that our congress addresses this issues, at this point it doesn't matter were we stand. When the issue gets addressed my our government all voices will make themselves heard and I am confident that reason and fairness will prevail.

CHEERS.