The systems that are supposed to make our democracy the best in the world are failing us. That is why the Help America Vote Act (HAVA) was passed about 10 years ago, supposedly to fix certain problems. We now know that it was an utter boondoggle which pushed the country towards electronic voting, an outrageous "failure of the imagination."
We need to take pride in the working of our democracy again and to do that we, the citizenry as a whole, need to understand the multiple systems which are required to making the concept of democracy work.
One of the primary systems is news and opinion, without which we can't have an informed public. But the nuts and bolts of democracy are systems that protect ballot integrity, that allow ballot access, that allow 3rd parties to participate in presidential debates, that provide campaign funding transparency and some form of public campaign financing, that allow early voting, voting by mail, same day registration, instant runoff voting etc., all the way to issues such as the re-enfranchisement of felons who have done their time and are trying ro reassimilate into society, and making Voter Tuesday a national holiday. Even the right to vote isn't Constitutionally guarranteed, as we discovered in the Supreme Court decision which put Bush in office after the Florida debacle in 2000.
Our democracy is our proudest heritage as Americans but it is not working well. Let's have a national discussion about it so we can pull together the brainpower to fix it up.
Comments (8)
Er, uh, what happened to, "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and TO THE REPUBLIC . . . ."
Where did this "democracy" thing come from?
This nasty little thing is one of the first methods the un American crowd used and very few people know we're supposed to be a Republic. A Constitutional Republic.
Our democracy thing is our most shameful past and the reason our heritage is broken. A national discussion has to consider what we're supposed to be FIRST rather than what we should all be pulling together on.
This is PATENTLY a bad idea!
Don, Please elaborate on your rationale. You're kidding right? You're trying to get my attention by getting my goat. Well you've got it so explain your self. Politely please. Hopefully your excited tone is going to draw interest to your ideas. Let er' rip.
Geo Rip
Hi Grass,
No, I'm not kidding and I've been trying to get people's goat since I was 16 years old on this very subject. See "My Little American Test" https://docs.google.com/Doc?docid=dgqtv9ff_354jqfbh6fc&hl=en
Have some fun there. If we can't laugh about it we'll all be crying.
If you can get people's attention off of the real thing by calling it something that it isn't you will produce exactly what we have come to.
Seriously, in 1968 a colleague of mine and myself entered the swank offices of a successful attorney in one of the mighty towers of 17th Street in Denver, Colorado. He too was predicting a blood bath in America that long ago for just such "simple" things as we're discussing here. That day seems to have arrived. For example, the 1st Amendment says "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." Okay, so to whom do we give such a petition? How is one written? If you gave a petition to Obama redressing his concealment of birth does he listen? Would a court? Does the Congress? Does his press secretary? W5h, (Who, what, why, when, where or how) do we do it?
Well, we don't! There is no mechanism left. The REPUBLIC that used to give such rights to the people from their Bill of Rights has long since been replaced with an oligarchy referred to as a "democracy." A democracy just means half plus one quash all the rest. As a result, our REPUBLIC perished and you cannot save it. You can only restore it. But with what mechanism do we do that? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to determine what the missing quotient is in 2 + X = 4. It also doesn't take a religious prophet. It only takes a little deductive sense and you can see why Thomas Jefferson's quote is taking on a lot more interest and meaning today: "What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."
My Friend, Grass, we are in trouble which begins with "T" and rhymes with "P" which stands for "pissed off" Americans who aren't going to take it any more. Me? I escaped America (& don't even own a gun), a long time ago after my stand cost me everything including my family. Interestingly, my family all voted for Ron Paul in the primaries last year. They vindicated me, except that we still lost the REPUBLIC. Too little too late. It will require blood as TJ said, unless you think you can ask Obama to give it all back. Ha!
Lastly, My Friend, Grass, I TOTALLY APPRECIATE your willingness to examine the mote in your own eye. Thank you! Let's be sure our grassroots are planted in the right soil.
Don Wood
Democracy Versus Republic
These succinct definitions of what is Democracy and what is a Republic was produced by the US Army in 1928, These definitions have been quietly withdrawn since, soon after.
Democracy:
A government of the masses.
Authority derived through mass meeting or any other form of "direct" expression.
Results in mobocracy.
Attitude toward property is comunistic-negating property rights.
Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate. whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences.
Results in demagogism license, agitation, discontent, anarchy.
Democracy is the "direct" rule of the people and has been repeatedly tried without success.
A certain Professor Alexander Fraser Tytler, nearly two centuries ago, had this to say about Democracy: " A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of Government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largess out of public treasury. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that Democracy always collapses over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a Dictatorship."
A democracy is majority rule and is destructive of liberty because there is no law to prevent the majority from trampling on individual rights. Whatever the majority says goes! A lynch mob is an example of pure democracy in action. There is only one dissenting vote, and that is cast by the person at the end of the rope.
Republic:
Authority is derived through the election by the people of public officials best fitted to represent them.
Attitude toward property is respect for laws and individual rights, and a sensible economic procedure.
Attitude toward law is the administration of justice in accord with fixed principles and established evidence, with a strict regard to consequences.
A greater number of citizens and extent of territory may be brought within its compass.
Avoids the dangerous extreme of either tyranny or mobocracy. Results in statesmanship, liberty, reason, justice, contentment, and progress.
Is the "standard form" of government throughout the world.
A republic is a form of government under a constitution which provides for the election of:
an executive and
a legislative body, who working together in a representative capacity, have all the power of appointment, all power of legislation all power to raise revenue and appropriate expenditures, and are required to create
a judiciary to pass upon the justice and legality of their governmental acts and to recognize
certain inherent individual rights.
Take away any one or more of those four elements and you are drifting into autocracy. Add one or more to those four elements and you are drifting into democracy.
Our Constitutional fathers, familiar with the strength and weakness of both autocracy and democracy, with fixed principles definitely in mind, defined a representative republican form of government. They "made a very marked distinction between a republic and a democracy and said repeatedly and emphatically that they had founded a republic."
A republic is a government of law under a Constitution. The Constitution holds the government in check and prevents the majority (acting through their government) from violating the rights of the individual. Under this system of government a lynch mob is illegal. The suspected criminal cannot be denied his right to a fair trial even if a majority of the citizenry demands otherwise.
Difference between Democracy and Republic, in brief:
Democracy:
a: government by the people; especially : rule of the majority.
b: a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.
Attitude toward law is that the will of the majority shall regulate, whether it be based upon deliberation or governed by passion, prejudice, and impulse, without restraint or regard to consequences
Republic
a: a government having a chief of state who is not a monarch and who in modern times is usually a president : a political unit (as a nation) having such a form of government.
b: a government in which supreme power resides in a body of citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by elected officers and representatives responsible to them and governing according to law.
Democracy and Republic are often taken as one of the same thing, but there is a fundamental difference. Whilst in both cases the government is elected by the people, in Democracy the majority rules according to their whims, whilst in the Republic the Government rule according to law. This law is framed in the Constitution to limit the power of Government and ensuring some rights and protection to Minorities and individuals.
The difference between Republic and Righteous Republic is that in the Republic the Government rules according to the law set up by men, in the Righteous Republic the law is the Law of God. Only in the Righteous Republic it can truly be said "One nation under God" for it is governed under commandments of the only One True God and there is no pluralism of religions.
Autocracy declares the divine right of kings; its authority can not be questioned; its powers are arbitrarily or unjustly administered.
Mobocracy: 1. Political control by a mob. 2. The mass of common people as the source of political control.
Thank you Freedomfighter. Now if only Mr. Grassroots would remove the mote in his eye.
Don Wood
The fact that we have disagreement makes my point. I think Americans need a discussion of how the systems work, or don't work.
For me, I don't mind being represented insofar as I am unable to represent myself. What I would really like is to vote more often directly on broad issues related to my governance. As opposed to the days of our nation's founding we now have the technical capability to communicate widely, to deliberate in unison and to vote effectively. Why not let us all vote on the broad outlines of our governance and leave the details up to those who are supposed to represent us? I'm sure you don't consider yourselves too uninformed to make good decisions, and I doubt you are in the pocket of special interests who seem to be the ones making all the decisions behind the curtain. If your positons on the issues are convincing and in the interest of the majority of other citizens who have a vote then you will probably make progress.
But hey, enough about letting the people decide. There are many other systems of a working democracy, some listed above, which should be improved upon if Americans are to be fully confident in our elections. I am no more confident in our elections systems than I am in our financial institutions, our health care/insurance system, our mega corporations, or the integrity of our military contractors.
But we won't get around to fixing the problems in all those areas until we have a vote that is reliable, intelligent, and truly serves the interests of the public.
Good luck to your point of view.
DISCUSSION IS GOOD. But why would you continue to ask for a democracy after all that Freedomfighter posted about it? NOT ONE of the points he gave have you gen any ear or weight to.
Grass, for your information, we still have a Constitution and even though you don't want it, it's still the LAW. We are either LAWLESS or we obey the LAW. See Art. 6. Sec. 2 of the United States Constitution.
Our forefathers did not need to see into the future of what the Internet has become to know how badly your idea of democracy sucks. Please do as you suggested in your first line and that is to get some understanding as to how our SYSTEM works, but with your understanding get some wisdom on why the forefathers shot your idea down so long before it occurred to you.
In the heart of discussion,
Don Wood